The Rules of Pacers Digest

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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

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Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

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  • Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    My apologies in advance to Dipperdunk, I have always respected the 76er franchise. That is until they sold their souls to the two bit little tyrant.

    To me he represents everything & I mean everything that is wrong with the N.B.A. from the late 90's till now. BTW, stop now if you are going to say that I am a hater because of his dress or his actions off of the court or better yet his color. I have zero problems with any of that because I don't care what a person does off of the court, however I have a huge huge problem with what he does on the court.

    Oxford dictionary describes the word selfish as follows:


    • adjective concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure at the expense of consideration for others. example Allen Iverson

    — DERIVATIVES selfishly adverb selfishness noun.

    Ok, so I added the Iverson part but you get my point. The very fact that this guy got to an N.B.A. title game tells you how absolutely pathetic the east has been from the time our team broke up in 2000 till the Pistons brought the gold back east last season.

    This guy gets mad because nobody will help him score yet when he has scorers on his team he gets mad if he is not getting enough of his own. How many players have the 76ers had to get rid of over the years because this jackass couldn't work with them?

    I also HATE this B.S. false toughness that he is always awarded by people. They keep saying over & over he is so small & he keeps going in & getting hit yet he keeps going.

    Bullcrap!!!!! The fact is he is so damn small that he throws himself into players & he falls down & the refs. call the damn foul on the bigger guy. Only Ron Artest has ever really laid a hit on him worth doing & guess what, Big Al didn't drive the rest of the game. I wish some of those big guys would lay him out on his *** so we would stop seeing this selfish little *** charge up the middle.

    Matt Goukas once said when A.I. was in his second year that if the refs. didn't call palming like they don't do for Big Al that Tiny Archiball would score 50 points every game. Or conversly if they called A.I. for all the palming he did do that he would average more turnovers a game than he would points.

    Now to the way he acts on court. Like I've said countless times in the Artest posts, I don't buy into the crap that he hates to lose so bad that it causes him to act bad. I hold Iverson to the same standard. How many times over the years just here in Indiana have we seen him have to be litterally carried off of the court by one of the bigger players because he was crying to the refs. & in one case litterally crying.

    Look, I'm no hypocrite on this. We have Reggie Miller & I don't like it when he does it either. But I've never seen LaSalle Thompson have to pick up Reggie & carry him to the bench like I saw Geiger have to do in the 00 series.

    Sorry, I've been on to much of a Ron Artest push lately. It feels good to get back to hating on the enemy.

    Sorry Dip. Hey, at least I love Andrew Tony

    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

    sorry, I'm not a huge fan of Iverson's character, but as a player, Iveron's got amazing heart and ability.

    You try playing a game with guys 7'3" and 280 lbs, and YOU throw your body right into them, for 82 games a season over 9 years.

    Trust me, it hurts. The fact he's still in 1 piece is a freaking miracle.

    Oh, and if Iverson's NEVER really hit, please tell me why he racks up more injuries every year than most entire TEAMS? I know DD will attest to that. Does he get hurt tripping over the foul line or something?

    I respect ANY player who can drop 55 one night, and come back the next night and drop 51.

    Also, the fact he won league MVP at barely 6 feet tall is remarkable.

    It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

    Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
    NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004


    • #3
      Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

      Originally posted by Kstat
      sorry, I'm not a huge fan of Iverson's character, but as a player, Iveron's got amazing heart and ability.

      You try playing a game with guys 7'3" and 280 lbs, and YOU throw your body right into them, for 82 games a season over 9 years.

      Trust me, it hurts. The fact he's still in 1 piece is a freaking miracle.

      Oh, and if Iverson's NEVER really hit, please tell me why he racks up more injuries every year than most entire TEAMS? I know DD will attest to that. Does he get hurt tripping over the foul line or something?

      I respect ANY player who can drop 55 one night, and come back the next night and drop 51.

      Also, the fact he won league MVP at barely 6 feet tall is remarkable.
      You might be to young for this analogy but it's the only one I can think of.

      Allen Iverson is the Les Nesman of the NBA. WKRP in Cincinnatti fans will know who I'm talking about. Les came into the station everyday with a new bandaid on a new part of his body.

      I consider Iverson the same thing.

      Is he talented? Yes.

      Can he make the players around him better? Sadly, he can when he chooses to. He just doesn't choose to very often.

      No offense intended here but this line is so cliche' about Iverson that it should be yelled by every PA announcer in the NBA.

      "Iveron's got amazing heart and ability."

      Why? Because he runs down the lane & gets a foul called on the bigger defender everytime no matter if he gets hit hard or not?

      Look, we have one of the if not the biggest floppers to ever play the game right here & I've watched him for 17 years. Iverson is almost on par with Reggie in this catagory.

      Like I said, I've seen Allen take a big hit once. A real hit that was intended to hit him & my other favorite player did it (Artest btw). That night Iverson did NOT drive the lane for the next three quarters. He just settled for jump shots & he was horrid.

      I don't care one bit if a player scores 70 points if his team doesn't win. I don't know about you but I wouldn't want a player on my team that tried to score 50 points so many games in a row & leave his team mates hanging. I'm not talking about his current streak btw, because I'll be honest I haven't seen any of his recent games. But I know that there have been past players on his team once they got away from him sound off about how he griped about how he had no help but would get mad whenever somebody else tried to score. One of those players used to be on your team btw.

      Look the older I get the more of a prude I guess I become, but I guess I just don't like any player that puts himself above the team.

      This goes for players on our team as well, but I certainly include Iverson in this.

      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13


      • #4
        Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

        I don't really care for The Answer.
        You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?


        • #5
          Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

          I don't like his brand of ball particularly - never have. With his spelling skills he probably thinks team is spellied tIeam. And from what I know of him (which isn't much) I can't say as I care for him as a person. Don't care much for his practice habits either.

          But I wouldn't deny he has guts. And I'll leave it to Sixers fans whether they want to keep him or send him packing.
          The poster formerly known as Rimfire


          • #6
            Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

            The Olympics really showed how one dimensional his game is. He only really drove to the basket when he was on the break and he did the same thing he always does, run across the defender and force up a shot so the refs almost always blow the foul. Other than that he put up tough fadeaways from the top of the key (and made a reasonable % for the difficulty of the shot) but couldn't make a spotup 3 for most of the tournament.


            • #7
              Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

              Peck, as an adult, you are able to separate AI's on-court and off-court "personalities".

              But, I don't think it is that simple. Like it or not, sports personalities are the heroes of many of our youth. And whether we would want these celebrities to be or not, they have become at least "part-time" role models for our youth.

              For that reason, I believe it is important that these celebrities make every effort to be good citizens, both on and off the court. Since they are being paid millions of dollars to play a game, I don't think that is too much to ask. We accept the fact that they are human and like the rest of us will occassionally screw up. But the effort should be there.

              I think all of us can form opinions of Iverson, the sports star. We base it on what we observe on the court.

              I absolutely cannot stand Iverson. My reasons are basically the same as yours. He's all about individual statistics, with his team winning being only secondary. He may spew a contrasting opinion during interviews, but his actions prove otherwise. I believe there have been seasons where Iverson even averaged close to 30 shots a game. Averaged around 30 points per game, but 30 freakin' shots a game!!! During his prime, that would have enabled Reggie to average what... about 45 points per game, right?

              Judging a player's off-court personality is much harder. We have to go a little by what we see of the player on the court. But we are mostly influenced by what we read... the opinions of others, and what we choose to believe.

              I believe that Iverson is one who does not like to take full responsibility. He likes to point the finger elsewhere. His fiasco in Indy, where he accused our fans of racist comments. The lyrics of his rap album. Comments that he has reportedly made in practice to teammates. Everything that I've seen and read about Iverson through the years has led me to suspect that he himself might be racist. I could be totally wrong, but that's just what the pit of my stomach tells me. And since I detest racism, I don't find it difficult to hate Iverson, the citizen, as well as Iverson the player.


              • #8
                Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                Peck, I imagine this response will probably be too damn long (lol). I can understand your view point of Iverson I think as fans it's difficult to judge an out of town player because you don't get to see him every game and he may struggle in games against your team. He also has a style of play that can be viewed as selfish if you prefer a team oriented ball movement type of offense. He does have some flaws in his game that you mentioned.

                I know Iverson has played poorly the last couple of games against the Pacers and when he is bad he can be really bad and take the team out of games. It's tough to win when you have one player shooting 6-27 etc.,, and turning the ball over 6 or 7 times he was horrible on a recent 5 game road trip and shot about 28% all 76er losses some of them by just 1 or 2 points. So if you watched him on that trip you would think he was overrated but he came back and the last 5 games he is averaging over 40 a game and has been phenomenal.

                Last year he had I think an 8 pt. game against the Pacers but the next night on the back end of a back to back he scored 51 against the Hawks and Stephen Jackson and was great so I think you need to see a guy every night to get a good read on his game. As he has gotten older he has become more inconsistent and there are too many of the 8-26 shooting nights so he isn't the player he was 4-5 years ago this recent stretch not withstanding. He seems to have found the fountain of youth this past week. (lol)

                Is he selfish? I think off the court he has some selfish tendencies in his character his father wasn't around as a child and you can see that he didn't have discipline in his upbringing and he tends to revolt against authority that is one of the reasons he clashed with Larry Brown who tried to act like a father figure with him. And he clashed last season with Chris Ford when Ford tried to discipline him. He isn't a leader off the court.

                I don't think he is selfish toward other people like say someone like Kobe Bryant who seems to be a "me 1st" type of person actually Iverson is probably too loyal to his roots and some of his childhood friends have landed him in trouble over the years but he doesn't want to be viewed as a sellout. Pat Croce and Charles Barkley over the years have both spoken with him and have tried to get Iverson to pull away from some of his childhood friends who are troublemakers but Iverson has refused up to this point some people view it as loyalty to his roots and a good thing and others like Barkley view it as stupidity he was almost shot last summer outside of a night club in Philly and his uncle who was standing next to him was the target and took the bullet.

                On the court is he selfish? I don't think so; I think some nights he takes too many bad shots and has poor shot selection but I've always faulted the 76ers organization for not bringing in good complementary scorers to play along side of him. Also he has never had a teammate complain about not getting the ball or call him selfish. Most of his teammates over the years have loved playing with Iverson and his leadership on the court and he has made them better players. Some people say that Van Horn and Kukoc failed playing with Iverson but that is a false perception. Van Horn had a very good season playing 2nd fiddle next to Iverson and hasn't done as well since leaving the 76ers. The 76ers were only a couple of heartbreaking playoff losses to the Pistons from being in the East. Conf. finals that year with Van Horn. Kukoc was fine with Iverson he was traded because Brown didn't like his defense and he wanted Mutombo but Kukoc fit in perfectly with Iverson and was a nice 2nd option the 76ers were 41-14 at that time before trading Kukoc so they had great chemistry together. But if you listen to the media they will tell you that Kukoc and Van Horn failed as 2nd scoring options that just wasn't the case.

                It was Larry's system that put defensive players next to Iverson and they thrived using that system so it's hard to fault it. You don't mind if a guy takes 24 shots if you are winning games. His teammates didn't mind because they had offensive flaws in their games and Iverson was taking pressure off of them and letting them concentrate on the defensive end of the court. A player like Snow thrived playing next to Iverson because Iverson shouldering the scoring burden took pressure off of Snow and his offensive deficiencies. If you look at him this year in Cleveland he has been horrible averaging about 3 pts. per game. Also Snow was the type of leader that if he thought a player was selfish or didn't like the way things were happening he wouldn't hesitate to say something about it that is why he recently got in trouble in Cleveland he speaks his mind. He never complained about Iverson he always had good things to say about him even after leaving town he said he was lucky to be able to play next to Iverson for most of his career and he cherished that time. So I know that his teammates don't view him as selfish. He is best friends with Aaron McKie who is a class act. He has never had any issues with teammates most of the time he sticks up for them during tough times and takes the blame.

                There was a playoff series against Boston a couple of years ago the 76ers lossed and Snow was awful shooting 3-33 the 3 games in Boston and the Philly media was trying to get Iverson to blame Snow and instead he ripped into the media and defended Snow that was the same press conference with his infamous "we are talking about practice" quotes. He has defended all of his teammates over the years even this summer he didn't rip any of his teammates on the olympic team even though some of their performances and actions were pretty poor he defended them and that is why guys like to play with him.

                It's just a situation where if you are the only offensive option if you need to take 28 shots to help your team win than that's what you have to do. I think Tinsley is currently dealing with that problem; he sees that he is the only option for the Pacers with your big guns out of the lineup and he is probably trying too hard you can fault his shot selection recently but I don't think you can say Tinsley has been selfish he is just trying to do what he can to help the Pacers win. The game Wilt scored 100 points he attempted 63 shots. Was he selfish that game? Some people said yes which is the reason Wilt later led the league in assists because he was tired of people calling him selfish but he also had better players around him the year he led the league in assists so he knew he didn't have to average 50 a game for his team to win. He later said that in an interview that he didn't become less selfish the year he led the league in assist he just had great players around him and that enabled him to change his game.

                I think it is more a result of expansion where you have superstars who are forced to do too much because they have less talented players around them.
                If Magic didn't have Jabbar or Worthy on his team than he probably would have taken more shots a game as well. Nobody remembers how many shots Magic took in game 6 of the finals his rookie season when Jabbar was out of the lineup; I was at that game and nobody in the crowd thought it was selfishness it was just viewed as great individual performance willing his team to victory. Iverson has never played with another superstar next to him when Larry Brown passed on Paul Pierce that draft that pretty much sealed Iverson's fate that he would be surrounded by role players who were weak offensive players like Snow,Lynch,Hill,Ratliff and he made all of them better none of them have had the same success since leaving the 76ers that they had here because Iverson was able to hide their offensive flaws by shouldering the scoring responsibility himself. Maybe if he had Pierce another superstar next to him he would have been able to approach things differently but he didn't have that option.

                Kobe is now forced to try to do much on offense and that is the reason you see his turnovers increase as he is leading the league and his shooting % is worse than Iverson's this season. Has he all of a sudden become a horrible shooter and a selfish player? I don't think so I think he is just trying to do too much because he is no longer playing next to a superstar and is surrounded by mediocre role players. It is the same thing Dominique encountered in his career when people called him selfish. He wasn't selfish he just had to take more shots than Bird or Magic because he wasn't playing next to McHale/Parish or Worthy/Jabbar.

                This season Iverson's shot attempts are down because O'Brien has added some better offensive players around Iverson so he doesn't feel like he needs to score 40 every night for the team to win. His assists are up and he recently has been doing a nice job of passing the ball. He had a game a couple of weeks ago where he had 14 assists and zero TO's. He's never going to be Jason Kidd but I think he is trying to get guys more involved since moving to the point. Kyle Korver has thrived playing with Iverson and they have great chemistry together and I think it's because Korver is the first great shooter that Iverson had played with in his career. Here is a quote from Korver after the game the other night...

                "He puts up 50 points two nights in a row and he's still looking for us," Korver said. "A lot of guys are capable of putting up 50 points back-to-back nights, but they (think), this is my show. He wasn't like that. It's pretty amazing."

                Okay I'm almost done. (lol)

                Peck I respect your point of view and your opinion is actually very similar to my father's view of Iverson he also thinks Iverson is a little selfish on the court at times and he would prefer Iverson looked for his his teammates more often and he also hates it when Iverson tries to drive in on 7 footers out of control and begs for foul calls but he is old school his favorite player was Billy Cunningham. And he watched all the Sixers/Celtics duels with the great unselfish passing teams the Celts had under Auerbach so he prefers that old school traditional style of play with ball movement.

                With that being said he still thinks Iverson is one of the best 76ers ever and is a great player but he sees some of flaws in Iverson's game that you mentioned and I agree with those. He also makes sure to remind me all the time that Iverson is a terrific player but that he couldn't hold a candle to Jerry West or some of the other legendary shooting guards of all-time but he does think Iverson is a special player.

                I always seem to defend Iverson on this board but that is mostly just when people say he is overrated or he sucks etc.,, he isn't my favorite player on the 76ers because some of the reasons you mentioned I prefer guys like Theo Ratliff or Eric Snow or on the current 76ers roster I like Korver and Iguodala who is as complete a player you will find for a rookie with today's young players he is a throwback and doesn't force things and lets the game come to him. Also I'm a quiet person by nature and playing baseball growing up I was blessed with great god given talent but I was always humble about my ability and actually a little bit shy so I prefer athletes with humility and don't care for the chest bumping or hands to the ear antics of Iverson or the times when he acts unprofessional and refuses to play because he isn't starting etc.,,,

                I wanted the 76ers to trade Iverson this summer. To me it just didn't make sense to keep him with all the other young players they have on the team and I didn't care for his antics last season. They aren't winning a championship any time soon and with Iverson's skills diminishing I thought this summer was the perfect time to move in a different direction and unload him but O'Brien wanted the opportunity to coach him.


                • #9
                  Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                  I have NEVER liked Iverson or his game.


                  You cannot question his heart.


                  Because he played, and played hard, for the Olympic team, I swore that I would not crticize him again. And I won't. THe man played for the US team when MANY MANY US stars begged off. Had they cited fear of terrorism I would have understood, but they came up with lame excuses and "fake" injuries. IVY played, that's good enough for me.
                  Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.


                  • #10
                    Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                    I don't think it takes a whole lot of skill to shoot 35 times a game and hit 10 shots to get your points. I have always thought he was way overrated, and for the calls he gets, he is not a superstar caliber player.
                    Sorry, I didn't know advertising was illegal here. Someone call the cops!


                    • #11
                      Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                      Originally posted by TruWarier
                      I don't think it takes a whole lot of skill to shoot 35 times a game and hit 10 shots to get your points. I have always thought he was way overrated, and for the calls he gets, he is not a superstar caliber player.
                      Again this perception of Iverson isn't based on any facts whatsoever. All-time he isn't even in top 27 in field goals attempted per season.


                      Before he had a supporting cast around him Jordan shots per game.

                      1986 28 shots per game
                      1987 25 shots per game
                      1989 25 shots per game

                      Was Jordan overrated because he was scoring 30-35 points on 28 shots?

                      For their careers

                      Jordan 30 pts a game on 23 shots per game
                      Iverson 28 pts a game on 22.5 shots per game


                      • #12
                        Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                        You know, "not meshing with AI" isn't the only reason so many players got traded off that Philly team...

                        they also had Larry Brown.
                        This space for rent.


                        • #13
                          Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                          I dont bender hate anyone bender! I may act bender like I do sometimes bender but it's really just an bender act.
                          The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.


                          • #14
                            Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                            I don't really hate him...But he is a jack ***. Eating nachos on the bench while his team was playing. Missing practice...then complaining about it "It's only practice!"..beating his wife and leaving her naked outside. Being an *** to the fans. Not signing...
                            and people still love this guy! I went to the all star game in philly...and I'll be damned! They like have his jerseys and shoes all over! posters of him are all over the city. He's there icon! It's a shame we arent that high on JO here.


                            • #15
                              Re: Am I the only person here who hates Allen Iverson????

                              Originally posted by ABADays
                              I dont bender hate anyone bender! I may act bender like I do sometimes bender but it's really just an bender act.
                              That's priceless.
                              The poster formerly known as Rimfire