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What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

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  • #61
    Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

    Originally posted by Anthem View Post
    I'm biased.
    I agree.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    • #62
      Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

      Originally posted by RLeWorm View Post
      Lance is valuable cause he creates. He is also a one mn fastbreak, if the other team misses and we got the rebound give it to Lance and he is gone! Thats why i really like Lance because he can create for himself and for others. Passing is also natural to him
      I agree here....I totally think that Lance is very good at creating for himself or others....but I think that he ( through his own choice or being directed by Vogel himself ) passes the ball too much....especially when he drives to the hoop. I wish that he'd drive more to the hoop, draw the defense, create a shot for others or try to finish at the basket and drawing a foul. I really think that he does more of the former ( passing it out ) than the latter ( attacking the basket and trying to finish and/or draw a fould ). IMHO....I think that if he really tried to finish at the basket...he'd get to the FT line A LOT.

      To be clear....I'm not suggesting that he shouldn't pass the ball....I'm saying that if he learned when to kick it out and when to finish while balancing his "offensive attack'", he'd do much better.
      Last edited by CableKC; 12-18-2012, 03:38 AM.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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      • #63
        Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
        I agree.
        So glad we can agree on something!

        Just for my own clarification, which of those combos would you trade Paul George and Lance Stephenson for?

        Heck, take "future improvement" out of it. Who would you trade for in order to get more wins this year?
        This space for rent.

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        • #64
          Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

          Originally posted by Anthem View Post
          So glad we can agree on something!
          "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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          • #65
            Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

            Originally posted by Anthem View Post
            So glad we can agree on something!

            Just for my own clarification, which of those combos would you trade Paul George and Lance Stephenson for?

            Heck, take "future improvement" out of it. Who would you trade for in order to get more wins this year?
            I wouldn't trade Paul George for anybody, him and Hill are close to untouchable, trade anybody but those two.
            @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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            • #66
              Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
              But we've still got the 30th best wing combination in the league right now and will until Danny gets healthy.
              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
              Name some that are worse? I can't think of a wing combo in the league that makes me say, "Hey, glad we've got Paul George and Lance over that combo!" Maybe you can, but I can't.
              Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
              I don't think our wings are helping us much. In fact, I think our wings are making it harder for Hill, West and Hibbert, our three best and most important players, to do their things.

              ...

              I think from the outside looking in that the Pacers' current wing situation, with our without Lance, is not striking fear throughout the league.
              Sure, but there's a difference between "not striking fear" and "every single team in the league is better than us." Right now, missing the guy who's been their best player for years, the Pacers have a middle-of-the-pack wing combo. Even discounting the future, I wouldn't want to swap wings with any of those teams. So what you really mean is that without Danny, the Pacers have an average wing rotation and are depending on contributions from the other positions (especially PF and PG) to push them to wins. Every winning team does this... every teams is average-at-best at some position.

              Either way, if we're already missing Granger, then I'd much rather have Lance available than have him missing.
              This space for rent.

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              • #67
                Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                It's funny, even in this thread, we have people talking about how bad Indiana is.

                13-11, certainly not what anyone expected. However, we did lose Danny on the eve of the season. Ok, so how big of a deal was that?

                3-6 in the first 9 games, struggling with an identity offensively, no one hitting shots except West. Hmmmm, Granger is sure missed. However, things have to get better, right? Once the team gets used to playing without him?

                10-5 in the last 15. Offense is looking a bit better, Paul George has stepped up, Roy has started playing better than his CAREER WORST start to the season.

                Here's my point: If we say it took 9 games for Frank and co to figure out how to play without Danny, then things look pretty good. This team is CLEARLY trending up, and there are legitimate reasons for the slow start.

                I think there is a bit of "forest through the trees" situation going on. The Pacers have been one of the better teams in the East over the past 15, yet the bad start has caused fans to gloss over that fact in favor of a "the sky is falling" mindset.

                Count me as one of the guys that think this team could manage a top 5-6 seed without Danny, and jump to the top 2/3 with him back. A healthy Danny, effective Roy/Paul, consistent West, and Hill distributing makes this team a nightmare for Eastern teams to face in the playoffs. The top notch defense will cause problems for anyone in the East.

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                • #68
                  Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                  I probably should have added a hyperbole warning. Literally 30th or making a bold statement to make a point that I'm not impressed with our wings? You decide. I'm okay with either.

                  Agree I'd rather have Lance than be further shorthanded.

                  I think Danny (healthy)/ Paul/ Lance/ either Green or Young is at best an average wing rotation for an NBA team. If you toss out positions and just call them all wings, Danny might be in the top 20 (1/3) of all wings in the league, and Paul might be in the top 30 (1/2). I know that Pacers fans will group them with similar wing players and rank them higher than non-Pacers fans would, so many here will disagree with me ranking both of them that low. That's fine. We can agree to disagree. Paul may move up higher as he's young and has potential, and that's good. Especially if he can throw together another 55 games that are similar to his last five.

                  I just don't think our wings are (a) all that good, or (b) all that important to our success. So my thoughts on two games without Lance, as the thread asks, is that our wings are probably not as good without him, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. We get Danny back and our wings will be better, but not to the point that our wings are the source of our roster's strength. Our rotation's highlights and our team's key to success are at the point and the post positions, not the wings.

                  And IMO we're starting to win with more regularity because of our top three guys - Hill, West, Hibbert.
                  Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                  Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                  Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                  Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                  And life itself, rushing over me
                  Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                  Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                    Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                    Our rotation's highlights and our team's key to success are at the point and the post positions, not the wings.
                    Good post.

                    Help me with the above. I thought the conventional wisdom around here was that point guards aren't a big deal to the offense, which is normally initiated by a wing?
                    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                    • #70
                      Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                      Lance is just an athlete. If he learns discipline like PG has, he could be a real special player
                      Smothered Chicken!

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                      • #71
                        Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                        Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                        Good post.

                        Help me with the above. I thought the conventional wisdom around here was that point guards aren't a big deal to the offense, which is normally initiated by a wing?

                        I don't care what you call Hill. Point, combo, just a guard, whatever. He's not a prototype PG but he's a playmaker. And he's a better playmaker than just about any other point guard we've had in blue and gold over the past couple of decades.

                        Maybe the passing game doesn't look crisp in the second quarter, but when he's got the ball at crunch time you expect good things to happen.

                        This ain't Travis Best or Ford just dribbling out the game clock to get a contested shot swatted into the stands.

                        And this ain't a couple of passes around the perimeter to find somebody to shoot a three.

                        There's a pick and roll coming and its got all four of the legit options because Hill can make it work - keep the ball himself (floater), get the ball to the West if the defense switches, get the ball to the weakside post if the defense collapses and get the ball to the wing if the defender fights through. When have we had that kind of point and post versatility in crunch time? Even when Danny comes back, I don't ever want to see him take another crunch time 3-pointer ever again (unless we're actually down by 3.)

                        I don't care what position you call him, and I don't really care about his stats. Hill is making great contributions to this team's success.
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                          Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                          I can't think of a wing combo in the league that makes me say, "Hey, glad we've got Paul George and Lance over that combo!" Maybe you can, but I can't.
                          I'm gonna go with "Utah."
                          This space for rent.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                            Fine. We're 29th?
                            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                            And life itself, rushing over me
                            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                              Fine, let's just look in our division.

                              Cleveland: Gee, Miles, Waiters, Walton
                              Detroit: Prince, Stuckey, Singler, Maggette
                              Milwaukee: Ellis, Daniels, Dunleavy, Lamb
                              Chicago: Deng, Belinelli, Hamilton, Butler

                              Have you watched any of these rotations play extensively this season? I'd take Granger/George/Stephen/anyone over every one of those combos.

                              I don't understand how Granger and Paul George can play as well as they have, yett we're only set at 1, 4, and 5. Hibbert has been slightly above average at best. I realize post and point are higher impact positions, but Hibbert has done nothing for us offensively. Meanwhile, George is getting it done on both ends and Granger is our biggest offensive threat when he comes back.
                              Last edited by imawhat; 12-20-2012, 02:48 AM.

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                              • #75
                                Re: What are your thoughts after two games without Lance?

                                Even without Danny I count at least 7 starting wings that are worse.

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