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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

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  • #16
    Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

    I'm glad something is being said but he's way too easy on Walsh and Pritchard. I agree with vnzla81, Ian only gets a pass for his 17 or 18 bad games and a few good ones due to who he replaced and the bar being set so low by the other newcomers. He's still a bad long term contract to have.
    I wish I could see a quick fix to this but I just don't. Let Granger come back and see what happens. Then try to dump Green this summer and let Walsh retire before going after a backup pg. On the bright side our draft pick might be good enough to contribute.
    Larry Bird qouted March 25th. 2015:

    Bird: I wanted to keep our group together because in the summer, if David and Roy opt out, we're back to zero, really. We don't have that much, so you leave your options open. If we did make a trade, I didn't want to take on a lot of contracts -- because that's what usually happens. Plus, I liked my guys. They're playing well. If we keep the core together and Paul comes back healthy, we'll be right back to where we were.

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    • #17
      Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

      I was confused why they let Barbosa walk.
      Because he's not good at basketball anymore.

      Also a very awkward final line:

      Preferably, and necessarily, the latter.
      What an ending!

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

        These NBA players are like pieces to a puzzle.

        Our pieces (at least the ones on the bench) both don't fit together and are unlikely to turn into an image when you're done.

        That doesn't make them bad pieces. It just makes them incompatible, at the moment.

        We all know Hansbrough's game. He can get to the line, and when he has confidence, he has a pretty decent midrange game.

        We know what Augustin can do. He *can* facilitate, and he likes to run. But for whatever reason, he's struggling in his backup role, and is just flat out awful right now.

        Green, when brought together with the right puzzle pieces, could play a real role as a catch and shoot and transition offense player.

        Mahinmi has all sorts of positive qualities, especially when you compare him to what we previously had for our backup 5 over the past few years.

        I think it's way too oversimplified to say that "this player sucks"... 95% of this board prior to this year thought that Lance Stephenson "sucked". It's much more multidimensional then what shows up in box scores.

        Hell, we made McRoberts look like a legit player because we sculpted a place for him in the roster that played to his strengths. This kind of work takes time and patience for our coaching staff.
        Last edited by docpaul; 12-13-2012, 11:51 AM.

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        • #19
          Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

          Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
          Even with Granger back, unless he spends a lot of time at power forward, Hansbrough's minutes are still a major issue.
          Jump shot is horrible. Can't score without shuffling his feet in order to get lined up to use his right hand and right hand only. How can two time ACC player of the year not be able to use his left hand??

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          • #20
            Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

            Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
            There is a very real difference between not watching it, and not caring about it. They're still the hometown team, and hence Kravitz and the Star has a very real obligation to cover them. Look at the numbers that FSI gets for their game broadcasts. Look at how many people are in the stands. As a fan that closely follows this team, actually watches the games, and is up to date with what is going on, you are the extreme minority.

            He is writing for his audience, which is the majority of Indianapolis that may not watch, but still wants to know what's going on. You're taking offense because he isn't writing his columns for you as a small minority member of his readership? That doesn't make sense.

            All this thread has shown is that he's better at his job as a writer, than you are as a writing critic.
            Bob?
            "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

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            • #21
              Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

              Originally posted by greyhound80 View Post
              Jump shot is horrible. Can't score without shuffling his feet in order to get lined up to use his right hand and right hand only. How can two time ACC player of the year not be able to use his left hand??
              I don't think you could play above 2A boys Indiana basketball and not have a left hand, its amazing he's accomplished what he has. I guess he was just such a physical force in college that it didn't matter. It's almost unbelieveably how that one skill fell through the cracks. Maybe he just isn't wired to be able to use his left, I've never met anyone incapable of it, but maybe thats the case. That one single ability to finish with his left would make him a completely different player and he'd get 'and ones' constantly, imo. He probably be able to avoid some of the beating he takes on a nightly basis too. Guys just hang on his right hand and either block it or are in position to clobber him. Pretty crazy, it sounds like I'm over hyping it, but I really think it would be something simple to add that could make such a difference.
              Last edited by Speed; 12-13-2012, 01:21 PM.

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              • #22
                Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                For once Kravitz is right
                Smothered Chicken!

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                • #23
                  Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                  Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                  Nothing new here, I disagree with Kravitz about Ian I still think he is not that good and to pay that much money for a player that doesn't bring an speciality is a waste of money.
                  tweeting in French isn't a specialty to you?

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                  • #24
                    Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                    Originally posted by Speed View Post
                    I don't think you could play above 2A boys Indiana basketball and not have a left hand, its amazing he's accomplished what he has. I guess he was just such a physical force in college that it didn't matter. It's almost unbelieveably how that one skill fell through the cracks. Maybe he just isn't wired to be able to use his left, I've never met anyone incapable of it, but maybe thats the case. That one single ability to finish with his left would make him a completely different player and he'd get 'and ones' constantly, imo. He probably be able to avoid some of the beating he takes on a nightly basis too. Guys just hang on his right hand and either block it or are in position to clobber him. Pretty crazy, it sounds like I'm over hyping it, but I really think it would be something simple to add that could make such a difference.
                    Your not over hyping it and I don't think it is simple for him as you indicated to begin with. He has 2 left feet and his bro is not much different. Very awkward fellas.
                    Last edited by Pacer Fan; 12-13-2012, 01:41 PM.
                    Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

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                    • #25
                      Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                      Originally posted by BillS View Post
                      One wonders whether has a post count he uses to tell him when to write a column based on what he reads here, or whether he just skims the forum when he is out of ideas. Then again, have we ever seen vnzla81 and Kravitz photographed together? Hmm...
                      vnzla81 works harder than Kravtiz ever has.
                      Removed link to my website after a PM from Able.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                        What I keep going back to is "fit". For example, most of us seem to now be of an opinion that Granger's presence greatly enhances the performance of our starting unit. Although, I will give George and Vogel major credit in that they have made major advances over the last 5-6 games in adjusting george's role to help the performance of the starting unit.

                        And the same is true for the bench. The only difference is that the player's aren't nearly as skilled, therefore the learning curve will probably be longer. The things I feel confident in concluding are:

                        DJ just doesn't fit into the second unit. His performance in a half-court game has been abysmal. And, especially after attempting to improve the defense of the second unit, it would make sense that we want a backup PG whose strength is half-court play in order to help slow the game down while still being able to initiate plays and directing the offense towards good, patient shots. And thus far, those strengths don't appear to play into DJ's bag of tricks. Ben, OTOH, although drawing a conclusion after only one game, appears to have that strength while also being a much, much better defender than DJ.

                        I'm not blaming DJ because based on his prior season, it seemed that we were getting a great player for the second unit whose glaring weakness (defense) was going to be well-compensated by other players acquired for the second unit. Unfortunately, those in his camp were wrong because DJ has played enough games to show that he just isn't going to fit.

                        As for Young and Mahinmi, they have greatly bolstered the defense of the second unit and have enough offensive skills to warrant saying that they will eventually prove to be good fits. I would go as far to say that Ian could step in as a part-time starter if Roy had to sit a handful of games.

                        Green is the puzzle for me. His ball IQ is horrendous; he's probably more "deer in the headlights" than Bender ever was. I guess I'll just say that Greens usefulness is totally dependent on the PG that is on the court with him. If we have a PG with decent half-court vision that can penetrate the lane, then opportunities for Green could be created to accompany the few opportunities that can be provided for him on fast breaks. If not, then we need to find a cave for Green on another team where he can hibernate.

                        At any rate, I think that the ability for a player's skills to blend with those of his teammates is even more important than the statistics he presents while playing for other teams. Using that criteria, we may have gotten a couple of keepers. But then again, we have also probably picked up a couple of duds, too. It might very well come down to how well we can settle the PG position in the second unit.
                        Last edited by beast23; 12-13-2012, 02:29 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                          Originally posted by Speed View Post
                          I've never met anyone incapable of it, but maybe thats the case.
                          Im no ball player by any means, but even when I plyed in school. i could never use my left. still cant.
                          If games are won and lost on a calculator and piece of paper, then why do we bother to play them?

                          @LetsTalkPacers

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                          • #28
                            Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                            Can't say I disagree with Kravitz so far, but the bench could be playing a lot better than it has.

                            In large part, poor play at the point is the major liability.

                            Guys like Gerald, Ian, and Tyler have great potential given better PG play. Those guys aren't playing as well as they should be. Ben looked like he can be an advantage over DJ to the bench, but we'll have to see.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                              Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
                              Even with Granger back, unless he spends a lot of time at power forward, Hansbrough's minutes are still a major issue.
                              He said Plumlee is coming along. Maybe we see a Ian/Miles combo in the near future.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Kravitz: offseason upgrades to bench were no upgrades

                                Originally posted by Trophy View Post
                                Can't say I disagree with Kravitz so far, but the bench could be playing a lot better than it has.

                                In large part, poor play at the point is the major liability.

                                Guys like Gerald, Ian, and Tyler have great potential given better PG play. Those guys aren't playing as well as they should be. Ben looked like he can be an advantage over DJ to the bench, but we'll have to see.
                                When Granger returns and players shift back to their expected roles, maybe things normalize that way.
                                Last edited by NapTonius Monk; 12-13-2012, 04:13 PM.

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