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Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

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  • #16
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

    [QUOTE=McKeyFan;1543527]

    It's frustrating to be a fan. /QUOTE]

    You are talking to the choir. I'm more frustrated now than I was with Jimmy's 36,36, and 32 win seasons. To go from last years success to what's happening now just makes me sick. It's like a bad dream that I can't wake up from to get out of the bad dream.

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    • #17
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

      Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
      I understand Vogel watching Green hit three shots in a row and deciding to ride with Green down the stretch. Don't agree with it, but I understand it. But, as you pointed out, we had no one to make something happen on offense when the Thunder clamped down. Lance has skills in those situations.

      It's frustrating to be a fan. We're not always right but often we are. Last year, it was dozens of agonizing games where we pointed out Collison was liability compared to Hill before Frank figured it out. The digest was right about that one. In years past it's been about Murphy, or Posey, or others. This year it's going to take Frank over half the season before he finally realizes Lance is a gamer, has what it takes at the end of games, and needs to be in there. By the time he figures it out, Granger will be back and we'll probably have to go through it all over again.
      Though I agree with you, there have been times when Lance has burned us in crunch time (hawks game, against Andre Miller and Den) so it's not like he hasn't gotten his chances to close games

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      • #18
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

        I rarely question Frank Vogel, but I do wonder what he needs to do with the bench.

        I think he needs to make a decision fairly soon - as in the next couple of weeks. Either decide he is sticking with the bench through good times and bad (which is basically in general what he has been doing - alkthough he might need to commit to it even more). And what I mean is to give the 4 or 5 players off the bench regular and consistant minutes every game - if that means it costs us a few games, so be it. The idea is they will come around - sort of like Carlisle does and he always has one of the best benches in the NBA and I do think part of the reason why is the way he uses the bench players.

        Or Frank needs to decide that we need to win games now, that we cannot try to force the bench to either play better or lose games, that isn't fair to the starters. So if he decides to do this Frank needs to scrap a regular rotation and use a more situational substitutional pattern. That mnight mean some fo the bench players might not play every game, or in each half. Ride the starters and rest them as much as you can and wait for Danny to come back and then see how the bench looks.

        I do think he needs to do one or the other. Stick with them and sacrifice a few wins, or scrap his current approach and use a situational pattern

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        • #19
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

          Originally posted by Pacerized View Post
          I saw the same story we were just facing an elite team. Our bench still sucks and I don't see any rotation that fixes that. If Roy would get back to last years form that would change a lot of things for this team but that doesn't look likely. It's hard for Vogel to react to a poor play from a starter when he has almost nothing to turn to. The extra minutes given to Ian would have still served the team better if given to Roy because Ian did less with them.
          This team with Granger and last years team probably loses this game as well but that's not to say we should be happy with the changes that were made.
          Do the right thing and walk away Walsh.
          We did beat this team last year with Danny. Oobvioysky we don't know what would've happened but I do think we would have had a better chance to win down the stretch. But hey, any time your 7'2 Max C gets blocked by a PG that's almost a foot shorter than him, you know all you need to know about the way the 4th qtr was going.

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          • #20
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

            Peck mentioned something I've been thinking about lately, and that is letting Plumlee play. I wasn't happy about Bird drafting Plumlee at the time, but with this bench situation I'm all for giving him a shot. Hansbro, another of Bird's picks I wasn't excited about, isn't getting the job done, so let Plumjam have Hansbro's minutes. Ian can slide over to the 4 when they are playing together. Shake it up, and see what happens.

            Maybe give Ben some minutes at PG too. As much as I've ragged on Hill and his output, he can't be worked to death like a borrowed mule. He needs less PT and more rest to be able to play his best. It's hard to play well when one is constantly tired. I'd have to believe rest would have to help his atrocious shooting %. Give him some rest, so he can have a chance to be successful.

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            • #21
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

              Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
              Though I agree with you, there have been times when Lance has burned us in crunch time (hawks game, against Andre Miller and Den) so it's not like he hasn't gotten his chances to close games
              I respectfully disagree. I can't remember the Hawks, but with Denver he was not the primary problem down the stretch. Sure, he should have made the foul shot to put us within two, but you could also argue that if he had not been aggressive and made something happen, we wouldn't have even been within one possession at the end. Defensively, here's what I wrote in the post game thread:

              Last five minutes of Denver game:

              - Miller tries to penetrate and Lance keeps Miller from shooting
              - 3:00: Lance gets a steal
              - 2:44 Miller draws a foul against PG and makes two free throws
              - 2:30 Miller scores on fast break layup. Lance barely reaches him in time and pushes him toward DWest at the basket who does nothing. This break was the result of GHill's early 3-pointer that caroomed off the rim while Lance was on the baseline. The fast break was Hill's fault, not Lance's, and Quinn even said as much.
              - 2:00 Miller scores on an easy shot from the foul line. You could argue this one was Lance's fault. Except that he got screened by Javale freaking McGee, so he switched, which makes sense. Unfortunately, it was Roy's job to come up simply to the foul line to cover Miller, but speedy Hibbert did not even make the attempt.
              - 1:45 ish: Miller tries to penetrate. Lance plays solid D and prevents any shot attempt. They call a foul on Lance. Not a shooting foul. No big deal.
              - 1:30 or so: Young replaces Lance. Miller immediately gets wide open to make a 10 footer. Lance back in.
              - 1:00 or so: Similar play. Lance switches again, which he should have. This time, however, the switcher is GHill who does play defense and Miller misses the 15 foooter.
              - I don't think Denver scored again.
              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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              • #22
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                If it's all about earning minutes as Vogel says it is, then why isn't Tyler benched and Plumlee getting in there to earn some playing time. Vogel can be pretty frustrating. I can see sticking with DJ cause no way would Ben be any better, but Plumlee is already better than Hans. Pends probably is too.
                First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

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                • #23
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                  Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                  I respectfully disagree. I can't remember the Hawks, but with Denver he was not the primary problem down the stretch. Sure, he should have made the foul shot to put us within two, but you could also argue that if he had not been aggressive and made something happen, we wouldn't have even been within one possession at the end. Defensively, here's what I wrote in the post game thread:
                  The Hawks game he actually played well, but turned the ball over once or twice down the stretch as the Hawks were making their comeback. He also lost Korver for the go ahead 3 (if i remember correctly)

                  The foul that Miller drew on PG was because he beat Lance (although there was no foul there to be called)

                  He def shouldn't have switched simply because we all know that the guard is going to score when Roy is switched on him

                  Don't get me wrong, as I stated in my previous post--I think Lance should finish games. I actually think he could stand to take a few FGA from GH and Roy as well. I was just saying I know he's been in down the stretch of a few games, DEN and ATL came to mind.
                  Last edited by Ace E.Anderson; 12-10-2012, 12:21 PM.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                    I thought the Pacers, especially the starters played a very good game. Just wasn't enough against a team that is simply better than the Pacers.
                    My thoughts exactly. Wasn't particularly angered by this loss.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                      I was not so susprised to see us lose to the Thunder at their house. They are one of, if not the best team in the league and teams like that are hard to beat at home. The play and/or rotation on our 2nd unit however, is really starting to worry me. Long playing time in every game makes injuries easier to get. We are an injury to David West from hopeless, IMO. Donny and Pritch may have done the best they could in the off season, but losing Danny has taken a large toll. Is it time to start looking for some serious trade talks? And what are the chances Donnie will pull that trigger?

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                      • #26
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                        Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post

                        If it's all about earning minutes as Vogel says it is,

                        Isn't that what Vogel's mentor said too? We all saw how that worked out!

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                        • #27
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                          I never expected the Pacers to beat the Thunder at home. I am disappointed in some individual players results.

                          On the bright side the team doesn't play until Wed, and they are playing Cleveland in BLF. I would expect a win and back to .500 at 11-11. If not, I'll be highly disappointed and upset.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                            Originally posted by Justin Tyme View Post
                            I never expected the Pacers to beat the Thunder at home. I am disappointed in some individual players results.

                            On the bright side the team doesn't play until Wed, and they are playing Cleveland in BLF. I would expect a win and back to .500 at 11-11. If not, I'll be highly disappointed and upset.
                            Perfect game to try out Ben, and maybe Plumlee. If they don't do well out starters should still be able to pull out a victory.

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                            • #29
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                              AC/DC
                              Smothered Chicken!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Odd Thoughts: Thunderstruck

                                Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
                                Perfect game to try out Ben, and maybe Plumlee. If they don't do well out starters should still be able to pull out a victory.
                                Uncle Drew is going to be back. I wouldn't write this one off as a victory.
                                "I had to take her down like Chris Brown."

                                -Lance Stephenson

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