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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

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  • George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    13.8 ppg and 5.3 apg, may not sound like great numbers but the Pacers made the right move signing him for that amount of money. Hill has made 2 game winning shots this season last night and @ Toronto in the opener, even last season Hill was ranked top 10 in the NBA in his productions in the final 2 minutes, the dude is clutch. I know some people say we over payed for him but I disagree, Hill was worth every bit of it. We have two players we can go to for buckets when we need them and that is George Hill and David West.

  • #2
    Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

    that 13.8 will easily rise to about 15ppg once he starts shooting around his normal %'s.

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    • #3
      Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

      Right on! I thought this was the worst move we made this offseason, but he proved me wrong pretty quickly.

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      • #4
        Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

        The counter-argument would be that if George Hill played better before the final two minutes of the game, we wouldn't have needed the heroics. I mean, the guy spotted the Lakers at least four points on easy fast breaks last night, and in the first half he only managed three points against All-NBA defenders Darius Morris and Chris Duhon. His shooting has been atrocious all season and his passing remains sub-par for a starting point guard. In a season where we desperately need consistency from our players (and we're certainly not getting it from Hibbert and George), Hill hasn't delivered. You could argue that he's been the second best player on the team thus far, but the team is only 7-8.

        He hasn't shied away from the big moments, and he's hit more game-winners than I can remember, but let's judge the guy on the entirety of his work - every game, every minute. The front office already gave him $40 million based on a ten-game run. They overpaid because they remembered the good and forgot the bad. Let us not make the same mistake.

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        • #5
          Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

          I knew it was always a great move. Hill is a great all around player. Hes a great defender and has a lot of playoff experience (coming from SA).
          "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.


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          • #6
            Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

            Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
            The counter-argument would be that if George Hill played better before the final two minutes of the game, we wouldn't have needed the heroics. I mean, the guy spotted the Lakers at least four points on easy fast breaks last night, and in the first half he only managed three points against All-NBA defenders Darius Morris and Chris Duhon. His shooting has been atrocious all season and his passing remains sub-par for a starting point guard. In a season where we desperately need consistency from our players (and we're certainly not getting it from Hibbert and George), Hill hasn't delivered. You could argue that he's been the second best player on the team thus far, but the team is only 7-8.

            He hasn't shied away from the big moments, and he's hit more game-winners than I can remember, but let's judge the guy on the entirety of his work - every game, every minute. The front office already gave him $40 million based on a ten-game run. They overpaid because they remembered the good and forgot the bad. Let us not make the same mistake.
            I have posted that he was not worth near that much. I think I was probably wrong. 8 million is a good deal for him. Him Lance and George fit really well. Obviously Lance will be the odd man out when Granger returns, but I'm afraid that will hurt us. I think Lance starting at point is our best option going forward, simply because his defense, ball, handling and court vision are what we need at the point, not Hill's scoring. I think George Hill is better suited to be a 6th man, because he would be arguable the best one in the league. For some reason I believe that could solve our woes against Miami and other top teams. Obviously we need Hill now more than ever, I just think Lance has a higher ceiling he seems to be climbing towards fast at the point guard position.

            Sure he has been playing off the ball a lot, but good things seem to happen when he gets the ball in his hands. I understand this may be by design to
            ease him into the roll, but eventually we need to put the ball in his hands and let him go to work becuase he is out best creator for himself and others we've got. That includes Granger and Hill. He will make mistakes sure, but Hill and George have made their fair share and when any of the three are driving into traffic, I trust Lance's handles the most. I also trust his ability to pass into the post more than any other player for some reason. If his double clutch shots while driving to basket keep dropping at an increasing consitency, he may become our best all around player.

            Free Lance. He is better at creating for Hill, than Hill is for creating for him. We may see Hill's woeful shooting percentages increase to the level they were when Collison was still a big part of our offense. I think Hill's main problem this year is he is being asked to have the ball in his hands more than at any point in his career so far. They have Lance leashed so he doesn't have the chance to get Hill open looks. But Lance does get Hill good looks a lot considering he may not touch the ball at all on many possesssions.

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            • #7
              Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

              It's pretty silly to say whether he's worth all, some, or none of the new contract 15 games in. Like Joey Crawford after calling a blocking foul, give it some time to breathe first.
              You Got The Tony!!!!!!

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              • #8
                Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                It really doesn't matter how well or not he performs, he could put up 20/10/10 and it still wouldn't mean 5/40 was a good contract if you could have signed him for less. Fact is there was no competition, he could have very likely been had for less, the market for players considered at or near his level dropped out, and we overpaid, regardless of his production.

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                • #9
                  Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                  Hill's a good player, but he's still not a PG, and that will be exploited again in the playoffs.

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                  • #10
                    Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                    Originally posted by Dece View Post
                    It really doesn't matter how well or not he performs, he could put up 20/10/10 and it still wouldn't mean 5/40 was a good contract if you could have signed him for less. Fact is there was no competition, he could have very likely been had for less, the market for players considered at or near his level dropped out, and we overpaid, regardless of his production.
                    Wait a minute. Comping him to other players is only half of what is involved in retaining or acquiring a player. The other half of the matter, really a more important consideration, is whether there are other teams that had the cap space to pay him as much as we did.

                    I don't recall whether other teams still had that kind of money or not. I do agree with you that a good deal for any team is one in which you don't have to pay substantially more than the minimum amount that it actually takes to sign a player.

                    I would have hoped we could have gotten Hill for 5.5M - 6M per year. It didn't happen. But I really cannot say with certainty why. Could we have lost him if we had only been willing to pay that amount?

                    It seems reasonable that to lessen the risk in losing him that we were required to pay an amount more than the MLE. That much I feel like I know. But how much more than the MLE, who knows?

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                    • #11
                      Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                      Originally posted by Shade View Post
                      Hill's a good player, but he's still not a PG, and that will be exploited again in the playoffs.
                      He is a good player and he is a point guard, at least by my criteria. He doesn't have creativity or court vision, but he is still a floor general. He runs Vogel's plays all the time, much to my dismay, and I really wish he would take the ball to the basket more since his floater is his best shot (especially when he's struggling with his outside shooting).

                      Then again, I think all the Pacers other than Hansbrough and West should drive the ball inside more.

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                      • #12
                        Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                        Originally posted by Dece View Post
                        It really doesn't matter how well or not he performs, he could put up 20/10/10 and it still wouldn't mean 5/40 was a good contract if you could have signed him for less. Fact is there was no competition, he could have very likely been had for less, the market for players considered at or near his level dropped out, and we overpaid, regardless of his production.
                        fact is you don't know if there was competition for him, you are assuming that there was no competition for him, the Rockets signed Omer Asik for over 8 mil a year, you can't tell me that you know for sure no team offered Hill, because you don't know.

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                        • #13
                          Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                          Omer Asik is significantly more valuable than George Hill. I do know no team had the cap space to make GH that kind of offer. I do know no team did offer it because we signed an RFA in such a rush, for no apparent reason, instead of waiting for him to get an offer. Do you really think someone out there was waiting around for the end of the RFA time period to throw GH a 10M a year deal? No? Neither do I nor any other reasonable person on Earth does either.
                          Last edited by Dece; 11-28-2012, 07:51 PM. Reason: that's an awkward sentence... meaning is conveyed though

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                          • #14
                            Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                            One concern that we prevented was a poison pill contract. If we had a feeling that that was looming, locking him up early was brilliant. This is not so far fetched, seeing what happened to Jeremy Lin. If Hill got a Lin offer, we probably would have had to let him go. I bet the Bulls/Knicks wish they wold have done what we did with Hill.

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                            • #15
                              Re: George Hill was worth every bit of 8 mil

                              I expect this opinion to change whenever Hill has a bad game.

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