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Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

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  • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

    Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
    Some people are expecting him to facilitate offense. He is a finisher. He won't come in and turn our offense around, JMO. He will help.

    I think this early season struggle has shined a huge light on our flaws as a team.
    Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
    I am arguing more that people over rate his contributions on offense, than that they misrepresent what he is about as a player.
    I'll quote you so I don't take you out of context.


    Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
    Some people are expecting him to facilitate offense. He is a finisher. He won't come in and turn our offense around, JMO. He will help.

    I think this early season struggle has shined a huge light on our flaws as a team.
    So again I ask, who's been arguing that Danny is a facilitator? That's not what people said, nor implying. Danny isn't a facilitator, he's a finisher.



    Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
    Sports don't work like that. Every year is different.
    And yet you're arguing that the problems last year are the same exact problems as this year. I'll even quote you again.

    Think about it......all these complaints are the exact same things that were said all of last year every time we had a slump or a bad performance. Roy can't play, Paul George lacks a killer instinct, George Hill ain't a PG, Augustin/Collison suck, and so on. And Danny coming back won't erase those things because there is some truth is each one of them.
    So the problems are the exact same as last year, and the only difference this year is that Danny is out, but Danny playing again won't result like last year, because each year is different.

    Gotcha.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012, 03:41 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

    Comment


    • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
      Yes they are magnified but they won't go away if he gets back, the Pacers still need a shot creator, a shooter and a passer.
      NOBODY IS DISPUTING THIS FACT!!! lol.

      Since he's been our main offensive option, our offense has NEVER looked THIS BAD. I mean even when we had Earl Freakin Watson as our starting PG, we were still able to score a lot of nights (yes it's because of JOB's bs system) with Danny at the helm. He was a good-great scorer on a bad team. As bad as our team is playing now, we don't even have anyone that can be a good to great scorer on a bad team lol.

      We know we need more facilitators, shooters, and shot creators. Nobody can dispute that. If nothing else, then we definitely need a player that can do at least two of the three. Danny is only a shooter and a scorer. We know he won't solve all of our problems, but he's definitely been taken for granted for what he provides this team.

      Comment


      • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

        Originally posted by CableKC View Post
        Could it be without Granger that the flaws in the offense ( when it comes to the Starting Lineup ) are more exposed and therefore magnified?
        I think it's both. It's not an either/or for me.

        People I am not arguing Danny isn't a good offensive player. I am not arguing that he doesn't help the offense. This thread was originally about our problems as a team in regards to this rough start, and whether or not it's because Danny is out. I think it has something to do with it, mainly that it has thrust Paul George and Roy Hibbert into roles neither are comfortable with.

        But, overall I feel like our lack of good guard play will hinder us regardless, no matter how strong Danny returns. And we won't build on last years success by going further into the playoffs. Once you get past the first round you are playing the ELITE teams. You can't get to the conference finals with George Hill and Paul George in the back court. JMO
        "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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        • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

          Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
          Pay him no heed. He's in what we call the reality-based community. That's not the way the board really works anymore. We're an empire now, you and I, and when we post, we create our own reality. And while they're studying that reality - judiciously, as they will - we'll post again, creating other new realities, which they can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're Pacers Digest's actors...and them, all of them, will be left to just study what we post.
          Political Science and History degree over here. Nicely done, very nicely done - and so, so appropriate.
          "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

          "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

          "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

          Comment


          • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

            Well there's the disconnect.


            No one is arguing that Danny is a solution good enough to make the Pacers an elite offensive team. Instead the argument is that Danny is a solution that will make the Pacers as good as last years offense.

            Getting back to last years level would be a huge positive.
            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

            Comment


            • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

              Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
              I think it's both. It's not an either/or for me.

              People I am not arguing Danny isn't a good offensive player. I am not arguing that he doesn't help the offense. This thread was originally about our problems as a team in regards to this rough start, and whether or not it's because Danny is out. I think it has something to do with it, mainly that it has thrust Paul George and Roy Hibbert into roles neither are comfortable with.

              But, overall I feel like our lack of good guard play will hinder us regardless, no matter how strong Danny returns. And we won't build on last years success by going further into the playoffs. Once you get past the first round you are playing the ELITE teams. You can't get to the conference finals with George Hill and Paul George in the back court. JMO
              Unless you have a Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony type of scorer at the SF. I agree with you 100% on this.

              Comment


              • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                I'll quote you so I don't take you out of context.




                So again I ask, who's been arguing that Danny is a facilitator? That's not what people said, nor implying. Danny isn't a facilitator, he's a finisher.





                And yet you're arguing that the problems last year are the same exact problems as this year. I'll even quote you again.



                So the problems are the exact same as last year, and the only difference this year is that Danny is out, but Danny playing again won't result like last year, because each year is different.

                Gotcha.
                You are talking like what we did last year is the goal for this year. It's not, we are supposed to be better.

                That says "expecting him to facilitate", not that they are arguing he is a great facilitator. If you want me to respond to your points, at least portray my view accurately. Our offense has never been great under Vogel, our defense has always carried us. So I am not sure how you can act like offense wasn't an issue even with Danny. I thought that was just common knowledge.

                They are the same problems as last year. Did you not watch the Miami series or even the Chicago series the year before? When they finally started playing defense late in the series, we couldn't score. And we did nothing to correct it. We are coming with the same approach and talent level. The only difference is teams have a lot more tape and have played against Vogels scheme a few times. Not a recipe for growth, JMO.



                Im not sure what you are arguing exactly.

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                Well there's the disconnect.


                No one is arguing that Danny is a solution good enough to make the Pacers an elite offensive team. Instead the argument is that Danny is a solution that will make the Pacers as good as last years offense.

                Getting back to last years level would be a huge positive.
                I disagree. We are supposed to be growing, we are supposed to be better. All of my posts are about us reaching new heights.
                Last edited by Taterhead; 11-15-2012, 03:54 PM.
                "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

                Comment


                • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                  Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                  NOBODY IS DISPUTING THIS FACT!!! lol.

                  Since he's been our main offensive option, our offense has NEVER looked THIS BADI mean even when we had Earl Freakin Watson as our starting PG, we were still able to score a lot of nights (yes it's because of JOB's bs system) with Danny at the helm. He was a good-great scorer on a bad team. As bad as our team is playing now, we don't even have anyone that can be a good to great scorer on a bad team lol.

                  We know we need more facilitators, shooters, and shot creators. Nobody can dispute that. If nothing else, then we definitely need a player that can do at least two of the three. Danny is only a shooter and a scorer. We know he won't solve all of our problems, but he's definitely been taken for granted for what he provides this team.
                  I remember that the offense looked this bad a lot of times last year and the Pacers had to play "hero ball" a lot to beat teams.

                  Even this year they went to "hero ball" by going to either West or Hill non stop, I think that if you pay attention to other teams OKC runs the same crapy offense than the Pacers but the difference is that they have two superstars to get them over the hill.
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                  • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                    Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                    That says "expecting him to facilitate", not that they are arguing he is a great facilitator. If you want me to respond to your points, at least portray my view accurately.
                    Which isn't what I said either.

                    So again I ask, who's been arguing that Danny is a facilitator? That's not what people said, nor implying. Danny isn't a facilitator, he's a finisher.
                    Let me rephrase if it will help you.

                    Who expects Danny to facilitate?
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                      Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                      I disagree. We are supposed to be growing, we are supposed to be better. All of my posts are about us reaching new heights.
                      So unless the Pacers reach the ECF, this season will be a bust?
                      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                        I remember that the offense looked this bad a lot of times last year and the Pacers had to play "hero ball" a lot to beat teams.

                        Even this year they went to "hero ball" by going to either West or Hill non stop, I think that if you pay attention to other teams OKC runs the same crapy offense than the Pacers but the difference is that they have two superstars to get them over the hill.
                        We looked bad at times, but not this consistently bad. Guys missing 2 ft bunny layups, turning the ball over just because (we were one of the best in the league at nor turning the ball over), etc. Forget guys getting 20, guys are struggling to get over 15 right now. It may not have pretty last year, but I don't recall it being THIS bad.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                          Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                          So unless the Pacers reach the ECF, this season will be a bust?
                          Not in my book but some here had overinflated expectations for this team.... I still think they will be a five or six seed and lose in the first round of the playoffs.....

                          Comment


                          • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                            Originally posted by Taterhead View Post

                            I think this early season struggle has shined a huge light on our flaws as a team.

                            I couldn't agree more. Then with Granger out it has just magnified those flaws.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                              So unless the Pacers reach the ECF, this season will be a bust?
                              Yep, why don't you ask them? That is their expectations not mine, at least the way the team is constructed.

                              Read that again Since86, I never said people were saying, I said people expect Danny to facilitate offense. That is what is called an opinion. Not sure what else to say.

                              Anyone who thinks he's going to come back and the offense will magically be fixed, is expecting him to "facilitate " the offense.

                              Facilitate means "to make easier", per Merriams.
                              "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

                              Comment


                              • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                                Originally posted by Taterhead View Post
                                Yep, why don't you ask them? That is their expectations not mine, at least the way the team is constructed.

                                Read that again Since86, I never said people were saying, I said people expect Danny to facilitate offense. That is what is called an opinion. Not sure what else to say.

                                Anyone who thinks he's going to come back and the offense will magically be fixed, is expecting him to "facilitate " the offense.

                                Facilitate means "to make easier", per Merriams.

                                I think right now they would say "we just want to win some games" and if they do that the rest will take care of itself.....

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