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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

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  • #31
    Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
    So Roy and West have regressed so much that they're worse than their rookie years?

    Even I was so fed up last night that I turned off the game, but clearly the Pacers aren't actually THIS bad.
    Roy is in his typical 3 months cocoon he is the only one that I expect to come out of it, West looks tired to me, maybe age is affecting him already? he is 32 going 33 so I don't expect him to play well all the time.

    Green is Green, Ian is Ian, Augustine could get a little better, Paul George could probably improve a bit more, Tyler is Tyler, Hill is Hill, at the end of the day I just don't see it, where the improvement is going to come from? Yes they are probably not going to be this bad but that doesn't mean that they are not going to be a bad team.
    @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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    • #32
      Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

      Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
      Roy is in his typical 3 months cocoon he is the only one that I expect to come out of it, West looks tired to me, maybe age is affecting him already? he is 32 going 33 so I don't expect him to play well all the time.

      Green is Green, Ian is Ian, Augustine could get a little better, Paul George could probably improve a bit more, Tyler is Tyler, Hill is Hill, at the end of the day I just don't see it, where the improvement is going to come from?
      Maybe the two guys you just mentioned that you expect will start playing better? Roy and West have been atrocious, but this isn't their normal.
      Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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      • #33
        Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

        Originally posted by Since86 View Post
        Maybe the two guys you just mentioned that you expect will start playing better? Roy and West have been atrocious, but this isn't their normal.
        So is that really going to improve the Pacers so much that they are not going to look this bad? yeah I don't see it, maybe they move from out of the playoffs to 8th seed I think.

        David West average is already high at 15 and 8, I think is a reach if we expect him to average more than that, Roy is the only out the two were I can see and improvement from 8 points to his normal 12ppg and from 8rpg to his normal 8.8, Roy's shooting percentage should also go up, ok let's say that all this happens, so is that enough to remove them from the "they are not this bad category"? my answer is no.
        @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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        • #34
          Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

          Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
          By the way I think is amazing that Peck keeps repeating that he pretty much wants Paul George to be traded because "his value would never be this high"
          No, Peck said PG's value would never be higher but never said to trade him. The one does not necessarily mean the other.

          In your case you not only said Granger's trade value wouldn't be higher but every player that came along you suggested trading Danny for him. That was explicit.

          No one got on your case for saying Granger's trade value wouldn't increase. They got on your case for wanting to trade him for every Tom, Dick, or Monta in the league.
          BillS

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

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          • #35
            Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
            David West average is already high at 15 and 8
            I notice you didn't point out that West is a career 49% shooter, and right now he's shooting about 41%. Roy is also shooting the lowest percentage of his career.

            When you're entire team's identity is based around playing inside-out, and your inside players absolutely suck, it drags the entire system down.
            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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            • #36
              Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

              Originally posted by BillS View Post
              No, Peck said PG's value would never be higher but never said to trade him. The one does not necessarily mean the other.
              I didn't know we had to check for players values once in a while, of course he means that he is open to trade him.


              In your case you not only said Granger's trade value wouldn't be higher but every player that came along you suggested trading Danny for him. That was explicit.

              No one got on your case for saying Granger's trade value wouldn't increase. They got on your case for wanting to trade him for every Tom, Dick, or Monta in the league.
              I wanted to trade Danny for some value because I knew that his knees were not going to last this long, the guy has been having knee issues since college, I guess who was right after all? I bet we could have a better record with somebody capable of playing instead but nope let's don't do that.
              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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              • #37
                Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                I notice you didn't point out that West is a career 49% shooter, and right now he's shooting about 41%. Roy is also shooting the lowest percentage of his career.

                When you're entire team's identity is based around playing inside-out, and your inside players absolutely suck, it drags the entire system down.
                West looks old to me I don't think he is going to get any better, I expect him to stay where he is right now, maybe his % goes up a bit but I still don't see it as a reason to say that the Pacers are somehow back into elite teams.

                And also teams already know how to shut both guys down, they know how to push Roy out of position and they know how to remove the West ISO's.
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                • #38
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                  Can't say much more to someone that goes from saying that they expect Roy and West to play better just a few posts ago, to now saying that West won't play better, and that teams have figured out the secret recipe to completely shutting both of them down.
                  Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                    I never expected such a performance out of this team. After how much passion and pride was displayed just a season ago. Granger or not, there is no excuse for this.

                    A team coach by Frank Vogel and a Pacers team with these players. I really can't believe it appears they've accepted this. Guys who shared great chemistry last season almost look like they don't know what they're supposed to do out there. Pretty much throwing the ball to the other team. No one is in position to do anything offensively.

                    If this team were to at least give a damn, we would've won the majority of the games so far.

                    Each player better search DEEP and find themselves quickly because it's become such a disgrace. No team that wants to contend and can plays like this.

                    I'm really hoping we can get this turned around and not lose too much ground because it's still very early in the season, but honestly I'm not seeing the light at the end of the tunnel.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                      Can't say much more to someone that goes from saying that they expect Roy and West to play better just a few posts ago, to now saying that West won't play better, and that teams have figured out the secret recipe to completely shutting both of them down.
                      I said that Roy is supposed to get better(if he comes out of his cocoon) from 8 and 8 to his normal 12 and 8 and regarding West I'm actually saying that he is producing at his highest at this point in his career I don't see an increase there.

                      And you like to hear it or not yes teams are learning to shut them down and to be fair I don't think is that complicated, the offense is just crap.

                      Note: Saying that somebody is probably playing better doesn't mean that that player goes from good to superstar or anything like that.
                      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                        Right now here's what I see our biggest problem as. We have one guy in the starting lineup that can actually play the up tempo/half tempo mix we kind of played last year, Hill. PG and Lance or PG and Green are really better suited to up tempo, and Roy and West are really better suited to half court. Danny was another guy who can play both ways, but when it is just Hill the difference is startling.

                        In half court, our perimeter guys really struggle, PG can't beat his man off the dribble, Lance can, but often times settles for a bad mid range jumper instead of finishing the attack.

                        West and Hibbert flat out get completely gassed when we try to push the pace at all it seems like.


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                        • #42
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                          What I'm wondering is why do we not have a counter for teams that shut down our inside players?! This is what coaching is, making adjustments when other coaches take away your first option. For whatever reason, our two starting bigs can't convert layups. Okay cool. LET'S DO SOMETHING ELSE! FT line extended curls for our wings, dribble hand-offs, SOMETHING. Quit spending 16 seconds trying to wait for Roy to NOT get position/miss a layup when he does get position.

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                          • #43
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                            Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                            I said that Roy is supposed to get better(if he comes out of his cocoon) from 8 and 8 to his normal 12 and 8 and regarding West I'm actually saying that he is producing at his highest at this point in his career I don't see an increase there.
                            smh
                            Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
                              Right now here's what I see our biggest problem as. We have one guy in the starting lineup that can actually play the up tempo/half tempo mix we kind of played last year, Hill. PG and Lance or PG and Green are really better suited to up tempo, and Roy and West are really better suited to half court. Danny was another guy who can play both ways, but when it is just Hill the difference is startling.

                              In half court, our perimeter guys really struggle, PG can't beat his man off the dribble, Lance can, but often times settles for a bad mid range jumper instead of finishing the attack.

                              West and Hibbert flat out get completely gassed when we try to push the pace at all it seems like.
                              I think a big part of our lack of dribble penetration is the fact that Roy and/or West are pretty much around the basket at all times. When having two post players within the offense, it's hard to have proper spacing on the floor for dribble drives. It was able to work last year because Roy and West were hitting higher % of their FGA AND we had Danny in the corner or on the wing occupying a defender.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                                Originally posted by Ace E.Anderson View Post
                                I think a big part of our lack of dribble penetration is the fact that Roy and/or West are pretty much around the basket at all times. When having two post players within the offense, it's hard to have proper spacing on the floor for dribble drives. It was able to work last year because Roy and West were hitting higher % of their FGA AND we had Danny in the corner or on the wing occupying a defender.
                                Not only that but teams are just collapasing the inside daring the Pacers to beat them from outside, and they can't do it. If Danny was playing, and teams tried focusing squarely on clogging the middle, he'd drop 30 on them. That's what is missing, and that's why Danny is so important to the whole offensive flow.

                                Who puts fear in the opposing team? George Hill certainly doesn't.
                                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

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