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Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

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  • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

    Words have different meanings in different contexts. In the context of basketball, facilitate is more often used in terms of actually running the offense in general, or passing the ball, not just making the offense easier.



    And all I was asking for is for some names that argued it. I've asked several times with no answer. I asked for names, because like I said, I think what other people have said and how you've taken it, are to different things.

    If you're using the term facilitate to just mean Granger makes the offense easier to run, then yeah, he's a facilitator. Which is why the offense has bogged down. Without him on the court, defenses are left to lock in on clogging the middle making Roy and West ineffective as they normally are.
    Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012, 04:43 PM.
    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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    • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

      Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
      I think right now they would say "we just want to win some games" and if they do that the rest will take care of itself.....
      Right now youre right blu, thanks for sharing. But I heard a lot of talk about us taking the next step in the offseason and I'm gonna hold them to it. I stick by what I say, for the long haul, when I'm right I'm right and if I'm wrong I don't have a problem admitting that either. You should try it sometimes.

      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
      Words have different meanings in different contexts. In the context of basketball, facilitate is more often used in terms of actually running the offense in general, or passing the ball, not just making the offense easier.



      And all I was asking for is for some names that argued it. I've asked several times with no answer.
      C'mon man!
      Last edited by Taterhead; 11-15-2012, 04:46 PM.
      "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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      • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

        Playbook: Hawes Facilitates High-low Offense

        With center Andrew Bynum now serving as the Sixers' primary offensive target in the post, head coach Doug Collins envisions forward-center Spencer Hawes using his elite vision and passing ability to create opportunities for the former-Laker. In Los Angeles, Bynum played alongside Pau Gasol, whose style of play is very similar to that of Hawes.
        http://www.nba.com/sixers/playbook-h...gh-low-offense

        It's more commonly used as a synonym with distribute/create.

        We were just using two different usages of the word. Danny doesn't distribute or create for others.



        But yeah, Danny is a facilitator in this offense because he spaces the floor. There's no room to operate on the inside, because the defense doesn't have to worry about the wings killing them. There's no threat on the floor to hurt teams. Danny won't fix every single problem of the offense, but he would fix a lot of it.

        The entire system is built around having complimentary players who use different strengths to cover up their teammates weaknesses. Danny is a very important part of that machine.

        How do you beat double teams? By knocking down shots by the open man. The Pacers cannot do it right now, so the double stays and causes havoc for the offensive post player.
        Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012, 05:06 PM.
        Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

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        • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

          It's just hard for me to understand how a teams best scorer can go down, and people not think that it's going to have a pretty substantial negative effect on the teams offense.

          Pacers are a low scoring team, so taking out an automatic 20pts every night puts a lot of pressure on the rest of the squad. They rely on the spacing that Danny creates through pure defensive focus. It's 20% of the offense just gone.
          Last edited by Since86; 11-15-2012, 05:13 PM.
          Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right.” ― Ricky Gervais.

          Comment


          • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

            Originally posted by Strummer View Post
            Right now Lance is doing a good job of showing that he's learned to be a team player. Even with things falling apart, he's still deferring to the vets and not been tempted to "freelance" and try to take over games by himself. I think that's what Frank wanted to see. So I expect Frank will start giving Lance the green light more often. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of the season.
            Freelance!
            "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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            • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

              Originally posted by Trader Joe View Post
              If Vnzla had to admit that Danny was this important to the team, he would be wrong and that would be a travesty he is not willing to face.

              EDIT: The truth as always is in the middle, does Danny immediately make us the 5th best team in the NBA again? No. Are we probably 5-4 or 6-3 instead of 3-6? I think so.
              5-4 against a pretty weak schedule.
              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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              • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                This just doesn't make much sense, IMHO.

                If the problems of last year are the problems of this year, and last years team was good and this years team is bad, then what explains the difference?

                You're arguing that it isn't Danny, yet him not playing is the only significant difference between last year and this year, besides the bench. Or do you just think the entire problem is the bench?

                If the problems are the same this year as they were last year, then shouldn't we be able to expect similiar results as opposed to the direct opposite?

                Neither you nor Vnlza has been able to provide any reasoning as to why this year is so different than last year, other than simply hanging your hat on last year being an aberration.
                I'll take a stab at that.

                We squeezed as much out of last year's team as possible. Great hustle. Motivated coach. No injuries. Every single component had to work to accomplish what we did. Pull out one key component and . . . Kerplunk!
                "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                  Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                  http://www.nba.com/sixers/playbook-h...gh-low-offense

                  It's more commonly used as a synonym with distribute/create.

                  We were just using two different usages of the word. Danny doesn't distribute or create for others.



                  But yeah, Danny is a facilitator in this offense because he spaces the floor. There's no room to operate on the inside, because the defense doesn't have to worry about the wings killing them. There's no threat on the floor to hurt teams. Danny won't fix every single problem of the offense, but he would fix a lot of it.

                  The entire system is built around having complimentary players who use different strengths to cover up their teammates weaknesses. Danny is a very important part of that machine.

                  How do you beat double teams? By knocking down shots by the open man. The Pacers cannot do it right now, so the double stays and causes havoc for the offensive post player.
                  I think of a facilitator as someone who gets his teammates easy baskets either by breaking down the defense from the outside, or in the post. I don't think Danny really does that. Granger to me is the finisher, not the guy that starts out the process of a successful play.

                  Again, we DO miss Granger, a lot more than I thought we would when I heard he was out. I hoped Paul George would step up and fill his void as a shooter and provide us with more athleticism, making us a quicker team, opening up transition and providing us with more punch off the dribble. He might yet show that, but so far he's looked lost. I also hoped Lance would finally get his chance, and he has minutes wise, but he seems to be handcuffed out there by the coach.

                  I think we just were on two different pages here. I am not insulting Danny's importance to the team. For us to be the kind of team we were last year we need Danny's shooting, no doubt. But IMO for us to take that next step we gotta make a choice between DG and PG at the 3 spot.
                  "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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                  • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                    Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                    So unless the Pacers reach the ECF, this season will be a bust?
                    You may be hitting at the heart of the controversy.

                    It's not a bust if we don't reach the ECF. It's a bust if we don't try.

                    Certain longtime posters have said for several seasons that we have a systemic flaw in the offense, and they don't believe TPTB have made the big moves necessary to fix that, and that TPTB have not attempted to. Some even believe Bird left for that very reason.
                    "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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                    • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                      Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                      You may be hitting at the heart of the controversy.

                      It's not a bust if we don't reach the ECF. It's a bust if we don't try.

                      Certain longtime posters have said for several seasons that we have a systemic flaw in the offense, and they don't believe TPTB have made the big moves necessary to fix that, and that TPTB have not attempted to. Some even believe Bird left for that very reason.
                      Raises hand.....


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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                      • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                        Originally posted by vnzla81 View Post
                        I think that if the Pacers front office if instead of signing Green and Young had signed Crawford or Mayo nobody would be missing Danny as much, the issue is not that the team misses Danny, the issue is that the Pacers have a bunch of scrubs to replace him.

                        In reality Paul George is doing a pretty good job in replacing Danny's numbers plus he is playing better D and rebounding at a higher rate than Danny, people love to think about the Danny of four years ago while forgetting that his productivity has been declining every year, last year was bad other than one month were he found a way to make his numbers look decent.

                        Right now the problem is not replacing Danny but replacing Paul George at small guard.

                        Edit: I'm not saying that signing either player could make the Pacers contenders either, their issues are deeper than missing an scorer.
                        I agree with you here as I wanted Mayo but was "hopeful" Green would fullfil and there's still time, we shall see. I have NO problem what so ever with PG, yes his shot is off & needs to work on taking it to the rack with some authority but his rebounding & D are top notch. I think you misunderstood me, I agree with most that you said. I also think that DG really helped space the floor for us, you had to respect the 3 ball. I also like how he was ready to go toe to toe with the Heat (not saying anybody on the team wasnt, but DG was looking for it, I liked that). I know we have West but they really miss DG's leadership & toughness, traits that are hard to acquire/replace via FA's, esp lower tier/hoping for the moon type of guys. What I'm trying to say is sometimes stats arent the only defining measure of a players value to thier team.

                        I'm all for PG playing SF while DG is out but thats just my 2 cents & I sit on the couch....be nice to have a TRUE "shooting" guard. Lance had 3 shots last night in 30 minutes? Nobody is gonna respect that! More looks/shots from Lance?

                        Comment


                        • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                          Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                          You may be hitting at the heart of the controversy.

                          It's not a bust if we don't reach the ECF. It's a bust if we don't try.

                          Certain longtime posters have said for several seasons that we have a systemic flaw in the offense, and they don't believe TPTB have made the big moves necessary to fix that, and that TPTB have not attempted to. Some even believe Bird left for that very reason.
                          Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                          ------

                          "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                          -John Wooden

                          Comment


                          • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                            Originally posted by jtroub8 View Post
                            I agree with you here as I wanted Mayo but was "hopeful" Green would fullfil and there's still time, we shall see. I have NO problem what so ever with PG, yes his shot is off & needs to work on taking it to the rack with some authority but his rebounding & D are top notch. I think you misunderstood me, I agree with most that you said. I also think that DG really helped space the floor for us, you had to respect the 3 ball. I also like how he was ready to go toe to toe with the Heat (not saying anybody on the team wasnt, but DG was looking for it, I liked that). I know we have West but they really miss DG's leadership & toughness, traits that are hard to acquire/replace via FA's, esp lower tier/hoping for the moon type of guys. What I'm trying to say is sometimes stats arent the only defining measure of a players value to thier team.

                            I'm all for PG playing SF while DG is out but thats just my 2 cents & I sit on the couch....be nice to have a TRUE "shooting" guard. Lance had 3 shots last night in 30 minutes? Nobody is gonna respect that! More looks/shots from Lance?
                            I think we should have tried harder to get Courtney Lee. I know he wanted to go to BOS, but had we ponied up an extra 2-3 mil a yr--as opposed to taking a risk on Green and Young, I think we would've been better off. No Lee can't create his own shot, but he's a very good 3pt shooter and defender. The defense wouldn't be leaving him too much.

                            Obviously hindsight is 20/20

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                            • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                              Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                              So unless the Pacers reach the ECF, this season will be a bust?
                              Yes, is not the reason to play each year to win it all? Anything else is a failure.

                              Comment


                              • Re: Odd Thoughts: Fear the Deer

                                Originally posted by MiaDragon View Post
                                Yes, is not the reason to play each year to win it all? Anything else is a failure.
                                Then as a small market team, you may never succeed......

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