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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

And I would put the pasted article in quotes like this.
Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

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  • #46
    Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

    Love's number's are absolutely ridiculous, but still I wonder why his team doesn't perform better than it does. I sometimes wonder if Love's numbers aren't actually reflecting his effect on the court. Is his defense poor? I honestly wouldn't know how to rank him. I'll admit though as I said before, his numbers are easily the best of any 4 in the league. I do not want to call him the best 4 though.

    Blake I think is in the same boat. Though his numbers aren't as great as Love's, they're still really high, but you wonder if he's as good as the numbers.. I've watched Blake more so I think he's an easier player to understand. Outstanding performance in transition allows for him to get a lot of easy baskets, but he isn't able to take over and dominate a game like you'd expect someone with his scoring average. (and most people who do score that much can dominate a game). His defense appears to be pretty poor most of the time as well.

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    • #47
      Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

      Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
      Pau's on the decline sure, but holy hell is that dude disrespected these days. A paid professional ranking him below Aldridge, Bosh, and Blake is just awful. KG's got the intangibles argument and is still an extremely elite defender, but I'd still take Pau.
      This is true. Pau is very much undervalued around the league. His numbers are still impressive even if he's on the declining part of his career, and is still the one of the best PFs in the league. He's the second option on the elite Lakers team, so I'd say he deserves the top 5.

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      • #48
        Love has been on a crap team his entire career. They were on pace to make the playoffs last year before their only other good player tore up his ankle.

        It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

        Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
        Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
        NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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        • #49
          Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

          Originally posted by mattie View Post
          Love's number's are absolutely ridiculous, but still I wonder why his team doesn't perform better than it does. I sometimes wonder if Love's numbers aren't actually reflecting his effect on the court. Is his defense poor? I honestly wouldn't know how to rank him. I'll admit though as I said before, his numbers are easily the best of any 4 in the league. I do not want to call him the best 4 though.

          Blake I think is in the same boat. Though his numbers aren't as great as Love's, they're still really high, but you wonder if he's as good as the numbers.. I've watched Blake more so I think he's an easier player to understand. Outstanding performance in transition allows for him to get a lot of easy baskets, but he isn't able to take over and dominate a game like you'd expect someone with his scoring average. (and most people who do score that much can dominate a game). His defense appears to be pretty poor most of the time as well.
          I am of the opinion if you have one of the best 5 PFs or Cs in the league you should have a team that is capable of making the playoffs. That is why I question if Love is really a top PF or just a really good one who is on a team where there is no one else inflating his numbers.

          To me Griffin is the Vince Carter of the PF position. He will wost likely put up great stats for most of his career, but they will mostly be hollow.


          I just went to the link ad saw KGs picture. Haha, he looks bat **** crazy there.
          Last edited by Eleazar; 10-16-2012, 03:00 AM.

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          • #50
            Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

            If you're the best player on a bad team shouldn't the other teams D be focused on you, diminishing your impact and stats.

            If they're focused on you and you still put up good numbers, maybe you're better than the stats lead us to believe.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

              Originally posted by Jose Slaughter View Post
              If you're the best player on a bad team shouldn't the other teams D be focused on you, diminishing your impact and stats.

              If they're focused on you and you still put up good numbers, maybe you're better than the stats lead us to believe.
              Danny being the obvious outlier assuming this is a true argument.

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              • #52
                Love's team WAS good last year until Rubio went down. People forget that.

                It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

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                • #53
                  Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                  so in 04-05 when the Lakers sucked, Kobe wasn't a top 5 SG? or does that requirement apply to big men only?

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                  • #54
                    Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                    Originally posted by spreedom View Post
                    Anyone who completely dismisses the ability of a player based on a five-game series against the eventual NBA champions has zero credibility.
                    But the Pacers' results against the eventual NBA champions are at the heart of pretty much every criticism of them as a team. Funny, that.
                    BillS

                    A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
                    Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                      Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                      There are at least ALL guys after Griffin who should be ahead of him.
                      My fix.

                      I love Griffin and his speed/power combo is deadly, but his total game is not well rounded and a guy like Aldridge is a beast compared to him. The passing and low block play of Gasol, the all-around game of Smith, the post offense and agility of Amare, Duncan's perfectly pure fundamentals game that makes the hard look easy....just a bunch of guys with less PR but easily as much or more impact on games.


                      As for Kevin Love, he might be one of the greatest rebounders ever when it's all done. Not Troy "steal uncontested boards" great, but "excuse me but I'll be taking this rebound position from you now" great. And he has the outside touch to boot.

                      I think he plays smart enough defense to not get in trouble, even though he is not a defensive player himself. He doesn't chase or try to do more than he reasonably could which means he often doesn't get out of position. This gives his teammates a chance to help him out.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                        If you're the best player on a bad team shouldn't the other teams D be focused on you, diminishing your impact and stats.

                        If they're focused on you and you still put up good numbers, maybe you're better than the stats lead us to believe.
                        This was the point I brought up at the PD party.

                        If I quote the +/- statistic then people say "oh, but that's all about who you are playing with, they make you look better or worse". But if we talk about rebounds or scoring then suddenly you get this massive benefit from playing with crappy players.

                        Make up you freaking minds stat-haters, either playing with Shaq makes it easier to have a good 3P% or playing without him does. Either playing with Nash means you'll get more open looks and have a higher FG% or you are better off playing without him.


                        Sure if you go by POINTS ONLY then being the star on a team and taking 500 shots a night you will get points, but your FG% will suck, your PPS will suck, your FTAs per possession will suck, your rebounds and steals will suck, everything that is non-volume related will look horrible because your crappy teammates are keeping you from getting the best possible looks or situations.

                        The star player that has to help everyone on defense is going to be more tired on offense. The rebounder fighting inside will be tanked when it comes to scoring. The shooter that constantly has to get his own shot is going to be screwed when it comes to quality looks. He'll never get to take a play off and watch another guy work the post or run off screens or break someone down off the dribble. It's always him doing those things.


                        And somehow as a way of dismissing players on losing teams this gets turned into "oh, he had it easy because he was ON A BAD TEAM?" That make no sense in any possible way.

                        Playing against bad teams helps you, not being on one.
                        Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-16-2012, 11:36 AM.

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                        • #57
                          Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                          Originally posted by BRushWithDeath View Post
                          Then you should have stopped after the bold.

                          And I'm obviously not much of a Griffin fan
                          There is almost something to it though because West is dramatically more skilled in the low block scoring moves area, as well as the fadeaway from the triple threat. Griffin explodes when he can find space, but West can score without space, even stepping through doubles pretty effectively.

                          Blake is obviously faster and more athletic and this gives him a clear advantage on boards and blocks. But he's not a great defender himself and is lacking in low block scoring moves.

                          I like Griffin actually but he's got the size of Love with more athletic ability and has yet to use it nearly as well as Love does. If he gets there then he'll shoot to #1 on this list. He could be Kemp in his prime if he puts it together.

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                          • #58
                            Those things are all true....

                            ...and 30 out of 30 NBA GMs would laugh their asses off if you asked the which player they would rather have, including bird or Walsh.

                            This is like extolling the virtues of rik smits as a free throw shooter and high post threat in pick and roll situations over Shaquille

                            Yes there are things he does better. Just don't imply the ridiculous notion that he's the better player.

                            Love vs griffin is and will be a fantastic and ongoing debate. Either of them vs David west is silly.

                            The funny thing is I am a HUGE fan of David west. I was a huge fan of dale Davis too, back in the day. But I never lost my marbles and decided he was a top-5 power forward at any point.
                            Last edited by Kstat; 10-16-2012, 11:58 AM.

                            It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                            Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                            Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                            NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                              Kstat I told you that more people thought that West is better than Griffin
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: NBA top ten power forwards and top ten NBA centers SI.com

                                It's funny, if Griffin was 6'6 with super long arms and big butt, and played the way he does, everyone would be talking how he's the next Round Mound of Rebound. Instead, he has a ripped 6'10 body with penguin arms which make him about as limited as the above but opens him up to criticism. How can a guy who looks like that not dominate on D? He has no reliable go-to move! He look like Bron but he no block transition shots!

                                Sure, he's not a complete player yet. But those aren't fake points or imaginary rebounds or assists or efficiency. Strength, quickness, jumping ability, handle, passing, hustle, and actual brains. I don't know that since Barkley we've seen a PF as good at all of those. Maybe if you count LeBron as PF, he has a comparable combination.

                                Yes, Griffin desperately needs to work on his shot, and then his D and post moves will need work too. But clearly, he's near the very top right now at his position, with potential to develop into an MVP type one day.

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