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Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

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  • Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Ok again right up front letís be clear that I understand this was another pre-season game & therefore everything I say below must be taken in the context that I understand that this is neither a finished product, the lineups we will see or even the lineups of the other team and how it would impact our team.

    Now having said that I am here to eat crow on a couple of things.

    First and foremost Ian Mahinmi is much larger than I thought he was, I mean much. I honestly never paid any attention to him in Dallas & well I really liked (still do btw) Lou Amundson so I always was aghast when people would say how much happier they were with his size when officially they are listed as only two inches apart in height.

    Well allow me right now to put that to bed. Standing side by side on the floor next to each other it wasnít even close. Ian looked more like 7í and Lou looked about 6í7Ē tall and it didnít end there. Ian is also much wider than Lou is.

    Also game wise there is just a world of difference between the two tonight (again pre-season but Iíve seen Lou play enough to know what he can give us). Ian looked at times like he was starting center material out there. Iím sure he was playing above his head tonight and Iím not sure how many min. he put up directly vs. Pekovic but what I saw out of him tonight is now making me question how good I think this team can be.

    I certainly donít want to base to much on a pre-season game vs. an opponent that isnít fielding itís best lineup but Iíll just say I am much more optimistic after the game than I was before.

    This guy not only has legitimate size but he also has soft hands. Paul George rocketed a pass into the post that not a lot of big men could handle but he tapped it back to himself and scored basket.

    I donít think we got to see what he can do defensively much tonight as things were played pretty hectically but still anytime you can come away with 2 blocks & 3 steals your doing something right.

    I still donít like the trade because he could have been signed outright & Collison could have been used to sweeten a deal to move Tyler, but if I look at it as we traded a high quality backup point guard for a high quality back up center I can live with it.

    Ok, here is everybodyís chance to take their shots at me. I really screwed up the Gerald Green vs. Sam Young thing. At least for tonight anyway & I have a feeling since seeing both of them play that this is probably the norm.

    Good God Green can sky. I donít know if they showed it on TV or not but when he came down from that alley oop dunk from Ben Hansbrough he saluted Derrick Williams and earned himself a technical foul. If they say it was hanging on the rim just laugh at them because he honest to God saluted him after he dunked that, it was glorious btw.
    He is active, he is longer than I thought (in fact I have a feeling that this is going to become a theme this year we now have several long athletic players) and he was able to work over the Wolves defenders pretty handily. His defense also was not half bad.

    So between Green & Mahinmi Iím more than willing to eat my words, I was pretty much dead wrong about both of them.

    On the other hand, and I know this isnít going to go over real well, I have not thought much of Augustine. Yes he had some good passes but his defense just turns my stomach. Iím not even sure what it is that he is doing so poorly but it just seems like whatever point guard he is playing can just get to whatever spot on the floor that they want to & he doesnít offer much resistance.

    Maybe when I see him as the backup & I donít have to see him face starters I will get more used to his style of play, but so far I just havenít been all that impressed.

    But if I have to worry about our backup point guard then in reality I think weíve got it pretty good. Remember when not long ago when our third string point guard wasnít that much worse than our starter? My have times have changed, clearly Hill is the top dog & we go from there.

    Obviously after tonightís game Ben Hansbrough is on all of our minds. Letís not forget that the outstanding dunk by Green was there because Psycho B made an absolutely perfect pass to him from out of bounds.

    Now the question is, does tonightís game really mean anything or was this just one of those special nights that a player hits on every now and then?

    Iím guessing he is good but he is not going to be that good very often.

    But it brings up an interesting question that Duke Dynamite must be credited with asking.

    With what you have seen so far does Lance Stephenson really deserve to make the team above Ben? Youíll laugh at first but then the more you think about it youíll start to wonder has Lance every really had this good of an overall game? I donít know the answer to that btw. I know he has had a couple of really good offensive games but Ben tonight was just everywhere & he was a very large part of why we made a second half comeback run.

    Now if you donít want to go so far as to say cut Lance then has what Orlando Johnson shown you so far merited making the team above Ben? Not sure.

    Obviously both of them still have that Potential thing going for them but still, I think it would be hard to tell Ben Hansbrough he was cut after tonightís game. Now if he doesnít even come close to producing this again sure. Honestly in tonightís game I thought he was better than Augustine, however I will also point out that he wasnít playing vs. Barea either.

    David West certainly has toned up his upper torso more than last year, if such a thing is possible. However he seemed to be moving like he was in cement and made no effort on the boards which was disappointing. But that offense of his sure is hard to stop.

    I know it is wrong to say this but Iím sorry from all of the times Iíve seen him on the floor Jeff Pendegraph is limited (that is being very polite btw). Stat wise he did ok but just watching him play hurts my eyes.

    Miles Plumlee needs to learn to get after it on the defensive end a little better, there were a couple of times that I thought he either could have gotten to or at least altered a shot and he didnít even make an effort at doing so. But offensively I think he may be a little better than what we were lead to believe.

    Overall this was a very fun game to be at and honestly I walk away a little more optimistic than when I went in & I was pretty optimistic going in.

    But hey I may change my mind 100 more times (or more) before the start of regular season.


    Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

  • #2
    Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

    Originally posted by Peck View Post
    Ok again right up front letís be clear that I understand this was another pre-season game & therefore everything I say below must be taken in the context that I understand that this is neither a finished product, the lineups we will see or even the lineups of the other team and how it would impact our team.

    Now having said that I am here to eat crow on a couple of things.

    First and foremost Ian Mahinmi is much larger than I thought he was, I mean much. I honestly never paid any attention to him in Dallas & well I really liked (still do btw) Lou Amundson so I always was aghast when people would say how much happier they were with his size when officially they are listed as only two inches apart in height.

    Well allow me right now to put that to bed. Standing side by side on the floor next to each other it wasnít even close. Ian looked more like 7í and Lou looked about 6í7Ē tall and it didnít end there. Ian is also much wider than Lou is.

    Also game wise there is just a world of difference between the two tonight (again pre-season but Iíve seen Lou play enough to know what he can give us). Ian looked at times like he was starting center material out there. Iím sure he was playing above his head tonight and Iím not sure how many min. he put up directly vs. Pekovic but what I saw out of him tonight is now making me question how good I think this team can be.

    I certainly donít want to base to much on a pre-season game vs. an opponent that isnít fielding itís best lineup but Iíll just say I am much more optimistic after the game than I was before.

    This guy not only has legitimate size but he also has soft hands. Paul George rocketed a pass into the post that not a lot of big men could handle but he tapped it back to himself and scored basket.

    I donít think we got to see what he can do defensively much tonight as things were played pretty hectically but still anytime you can come away with 2 blocks & 3 steals your doing something right.

    I still donít like the trade because he could have been signed outright & Collison could have been used to sweeten a deal to move Tyler, but if I look at it as we traded a high quality backup point guard for a high quality back up center I can live with it.

    Ok, here is everybodyís chance to take their shots at me. I really screwed up the Gerald Green vs. Sam Young thing. At least for tonight anyway & I have a feeling since seeing both of them play that this is probably the norm.

    Good God Green can sky. I donít know if they showed it on TV or not but when he came down from that alley oop dunk from Ben Hansbrough he saluted Derrick Williams and earned himself a technical foul. If they say it was hanging on the rim just laugh at them because he honest to God saluted him after he dunked that, it was glorious btw.
    He is active, he is longer than I thought (in fact I have a feeling that this is going to become a theme this year we now have several long athletic players) and he was able to work over the Wolves defenders pretty handily. His defense also was not half bad.

    So between Green & Mahinmi Iím more than willing to eat my words, I was pretty much dead wrong about both of them.

    On the other hand, and I know this isnít going to go over real well, I have not thought much of Augustine. Yes he had some good passes but his defense just turns my stomach. Iím not even sure what it is that he is doing so poorly but it just seems like whatever point guard he is playing can just get to whatever spot on the floor that they want to & he doesnít offer much resistance.

    Maybe when I see him as the backup & I donít have to see him face starters I will get more used to his style of play, but so far I just havenít been all that impressed.

    But if I have to worry about our backup point guard then in reality I think weíve got it pretty good. Remember when not long ago when our third string point guard wasnít that much worse than our starter? My have times have changed, clearly Hill is the top dog & we go from there.

    Obviously after tonightís game Ben Hansbrough is on all of our minds. Letís not forget that the outstanding dunk by Green was there because Psycho B made an absolutely perfect pass to him from out of bounds.

    Now the question is, does tonightís game really mean anything or was this just one of those special nights that a player hits on every now and then?

    Iím guessing he is good but he is not going to be that good very often.

    But it brings up an interesting question that Duke Dynamite must be credited with asking.

    With what you have seen so far does Lance Stephenson really deserve to make the team above Ben? Youíll laugh at first but then the more you think about it youíll start to wonder has Lance every really had this good of an overall game? I donít know the answer to that btw. I know he has had a couple of really good offensive games but Ben tonight was just everywhere & he was a very large part of why we made a second half comeback run.

    Now if you donít want to go so far as to say cut Lance then has what Orlando Johnson shown you so far merited making the team above Ben? Not sure.

    Obviously both of them still have that Potential thing going for them but still, I think it would be hard to tell Ben Hansbrough he was cut after tonightís game. Now if he doesnít even come close to producing this again sure. Honestly in tonightís game I thought he was better than Augustine, however I will also point out that he wasnít playing vs. Barea either.

    David West certainly has toned up his upper torso more than last year, if such a thing is possible. However he seemed to be moving like he was in cement and made no effort on the boards which was disappointing. But that offense of his sure is hard to stop.

    I know it is wrong to say this but Iím sorry from all of the times Iíve seen him on the floor Jeff Pendegraph is limited (that is being very polite btw). Stat wise he did ok but just watching him play hurts my eyes.

    Miles Plumlee needs to learn to get after it on the defensive end a little better, there were a couple of times that I thought he either could have gotten to or at least altered a shot and he didnít even make an effort at doing so. But offensively I think he may be a little better than what we were lead to believe.

    Overall this was a very fun game to be at and honestly I walk away a little more optimistic than when I went in & I was pretty optimistic going in.

    But hey I may change my mind 100 more times (or more) before the start of regular season.


    I may have to reevaluate Gerald Green. I knew he could fly. I didnt know he had a silky smooth back to basket game. He dropped a few fall away jumpers that looked fantastic. This kid has really worked on his game. I'm really excited.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

      Didn't get to see the game. How did Ben look on defense? He's listed at 6'3" which is nice size for a backup point guard. I read that we went on an 18-0 run with him in there so his D must not have hurt us any.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

        Originally posted by Strummer View Post
        Didn't get to see the game. How did Ben look on defense? He's listed at 6'3" which is nice size for a backup point guard. I read that we went on an 18-0 run with him in there so his D must not have hurt us any.
        Pesky would be the word I would choose to use. He only got one steal but he caused Conroy to turn it over several times & never got burned.


        Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

          Lou looked 6'7 because he IS 6'7, I don't care what he's listed at, he's shorter than Danny. Anyway, Ian had a really nice game, but he was playing above his head a bit, he's not going to play like that nightly (well, maybe I guess but I doubt it). He must've had stick'um on his hands because usually he's fumbling the ball everywhere.

          Far as Lance v. Psycho B, just no. It's one preseason game. I'm no fan of Lance but I'm not about to say someone deserves a roster spot because of one nice preseason game. I will say if it weren't for his guaranteed contract (which is a calculated move from the front office with 2nd round picks that is potentially really savvy) Orlando Johnson has no place in the NBA. Hope OJ likes Fort Wayne.
          Last edited by Heisenberg; 10-13-2012, 02:41 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

            God I'm glad you write these pieces. I always get giddy when I see a new one up .
            2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

            2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

            2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

              Originally posted by Peck View Post
              With what you have seen so far does Lance Stephenson really deserve to make the team above Ben? You’ll laugh at first but then the more you think about it you’ll start to wonder has Lance every really had this good of an overall game? I don’t know the answer to that btw. I know he has had a couple of really good offensive games but Ben tonight was just everywhere & he was a very large part of why we made a second half comeback run.
              Couldn't sleep so I decided to research Ben a bit, mainly on Wikipedia. Looks like he spent 5 years in college at Mississippi State and Notre Dame. I assume the extra year was just because he transferred. And he played last year in Europe.

              He's nearly 3 years older than Lance. Lance spent 1 year in college and 2 years riding the bench for the Pacers. He should only be a college senior now, had he stayed in school.

              So even though Lance has been in the NBA 2 years, it doesn't seem all that odd that Ben would have a more refined game. Ben put the time in in college and was quite successful.

              And I don't think we're at the point where we'd need to clear a spot for Ben anyway. Assuming we keep Young then we still have one spot open. True, we'd like to save that spot for an emergency. But if the Pacers decide to keep Ben, they wouldn't need to cut anyone immediately. If you're going to cut a player with a guaranteed contract (Lance or OJ as proposed) it doesn't matter if you do it now or when you need the roster spot later. You might as well wait and if everyone else stays healthy you wouldn't have to cut either one this season.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                Have we ever seen Lance doing something similar as Ben? Good play after good play after good play? I haven't.
                He still has some games left, maybe Frank should give him his freedom in one game.

                I know it's early, but Pendergraph doesn't look like he will ever be more than a decent 5th big.
                Orlando and Plumlee might be old rookies, but they are still rookies. I'm willing to be patient with them. Someone just has to tell OJ that it isn't against the rules to put the ball through the hoop.
                Young, I thought, had a bit of an offday. I hope.

                Very interesting literature as usual, Peck, but is there a reason why u always write Augustin with a "e" at the end?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                  "They want to be famous. We want to be champions. They want to be rappers and backup dancers. We want to play football." - T.J. Ward, Denver Broncos

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                    Originally posted by MvPlumlee View Post
                    Have we ever seen Lance doing something similar as Ben? Good play after good play after good play? I haven't.
                    He still has some games left, maybe Frank should give him his freedom in one game.

                    I know it's early, but Pendergraph doesn't look like he will ever be more than a decent 5th big.
                    Orlando and Plumlee might be old rookies, but they are still rookies. I'm willing to be patient with them. Someone just has to tell OJ that it isn't against the rules to put the ball through the hoop.
                    Young, I thought, had a bit of an offday. I hope.

                    Very interesting literature as usual, Peck, but is there a reason why u always write Augustin with a "e" at the end?
                    Like I said, I'm not much of a Lance fan, but he's killed the summer league twice now and had a (one! read all about it! a single game!) real NBA game where he did really well.

                    Ben Hansrbrough is still not an NBA player and should not make the roster. I'm fine with cutting ties with both, but the idea that little B has earned a spot over Lance is laughable.
                    Last edited by Heisenberg; 10-13-2012, 07:49 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                      Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                      Lou looked 6'7 because he IS 6'7, I don't care what he's listed at, he's shorter than Danny. Anyway, Ian had a really nice game, but he was playing above his head a bit, he's not going to play like that nightly (well, maybe I guess but I doubt it). He must've had stick'um on his hands because usually he's fumbling the ball everywhere.

                      Far as Lance v. Psycho B, just no. It's one preseason game. I'm no fan of Lance but I'm not about to say someone deserves a roster spot because of one nice preseason game. I will say if it weren't for his guaranteed contract (which is a calculated move from the front office with 2nd round picks that is potentially really savvy) Orlando Johnson has no place in the NBA. Hope OJ likes Fort Wayne.
                      Problem is I have never seen Lance have a game like Ben had last night. He has more court awareness than Lance.
                      {o,o}
                      |)__)
                      -"-"-

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                      • #12
                        Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                        Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                        Like I said, I'm not much of a Lance fan, but he's killed the summer league twice now and had a (one! read all about it! a single game!) real NBA game where he did really well.

                        Ben Hansrbrough is still not an NBA player and should not make the roster. I'm fine with cutting ties with both, but the idea that little B has earned a spot over Lance is laughable.
                        Yeah, I didn't watch that game. More players have done great in summer league, but never in a real NBA game and if there is one game in regular season where motivation is comparable with preseason and SL games it is most likely the last game of the season.

                        For me, it just about how much you belief you have in a player and yes I never had that with Lance. For Ben, it is just one game and I'm not going to say that he is going to make the team, but there is something about his game that makes me believe he could be useful in some way sooner or later. We'll see.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                          Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                          Like I said, I'm not much of a Lance fan, but he's killed the summer league twice now and had a (one! read all about it! a single game!)
                          That single game (last of season and didn't matter) is the only one I can think of where he played an extensive amount of time and was allowed to make mistakes.
                          "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." óKevin Pritchard press conference

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                          • #14
                            Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                            Originally posted by owl View Post
                            Problem is I have never seen Lance have a game like Ben had last night. He has more court awareness than Lance.
                            Ben has more solid leadership at point right now than Lance. Ben has decent court vision, not great. Lance has great court vision.
                            "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." óKevin Pritchard press conference

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                            • #15
                              Re: Odd Thoughts: First home pre-season game of 2012/13 season...

                              Originally posted by Kemo View Post
                              Peck, the salute barely gets seen at the very end.

                              "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." óKevin Pritchard press conference

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