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Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

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  • #16
    Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

    From the blog - "....after an issue with his left knee, which happened while working out in Los Angeles late in the summer...."

    I swear I remember Granger putting ice on his knees while on the bench during games this past season. Seems I recall it happening a lot. I wonder if the "happened while working out in LA" is really a continuation of some problems from the previous season.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

      Originally posted by Anthem View Post
      I don't think that's fair. I thought Penderwall shows some solid skills last year. On multiple occasions he'd make the pro-quality move but be unable to finish it. That could be a lack of skill, but it could also be a bad wheel.

      A healed knee, plus another year of experience, plus a little more skill, could easily equal a decent backup big man for us. I'm not saying he's a Dwight-killer, but I could see him stealing Tyler's minutes.
      Thats probably more fair. Seeing him in nut squad/garbage time last year, I thought he looked, okay, but its so hard to tell. Skill wise in the summer league, Mavunga looked better. Yep, just summer league, but looking bad or invisible in summer league isn't a good thing, especially against that level of talent. Especially when Plumlee looked like he belonged. Its a tough thing to look at, McBob looked all world, so theres that.

      Its not a huge deal, other than to say he's vying for minutes seems like a stretch to me. Maybe he's really gotten physically healed and the lightbulb all went on at the same time. Even if Tyler is what we think he is (minus 40% shooting) I would still have trouble seeing Pendegraph getting his minutes.

      I'm just skeptical with everything considered that he's a rotation type player on a good team, at this point, hopefully I'm wrong.
      Last edited by Speed; 09-26-2012, 12:59 PM.

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      • #18
        Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

        Originally posted by imawhat View Post
        How big must David West be to be noticeably bigger? The guy was already a tank.


        I was really hoping he'd slim down, if anything.
        Well, the article said he was toning his upper body. That doesn't mean he has to be bigger. Perhaps just in better shape.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

          Originally posted by J7F View Post
          I guess I kind of took it as he is more toned...
          Originally posted by Tom White
          Well, the article said he was toning his upper body. That doesn't mean he has to be bigger. Perhaps just in better shape.
          Looking at the pic in Speed's avatar, it looks like there's only one direction 'toned' can go, and it ain't smaller.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

            So the chances of Granger getting off to yet another slow start just increased.
            First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

              I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.

              I just really hope that this team is as good as it looks on paper. Our bench is definitely much stronger than last season, and a lot (if not all) of our guys will be getting better this year. I would even say that Hansbrough is going to improve, but let's take a quick look at our roster from the end of last season:

              Hill/DC/Price
              PG/Barbosa/Lance
              DG/Dahntay
              West/Hans/Pendergraph
              Roy/Foster/Lou/Fez

              Here is (roughly) what our roster will look like at the start of this season:

              Hill/DJA/Gaines/Ahearn
              PG/Lance/OJ
              DG/GG/Young
              West/Hans/Pendergraph
              Roy/Mahinmi/Plum/Nevill

              Those italicized are training camp pick-ups who may or may not earn a spot on the regular season roster.

              • Given that Augustin's facilitating and creating skills are far greater than Collison's, that is technical upgrade over last season (otherwise, DC would be more fit playing the 2).
              • Since we lost AJ Price, the third-string back-up point guard position is open, which is Ahearn's and Gaines' spot to lose. Given this is third-string we're talking about, this change is kind of a ±0 in my book.
              • If Lance improves enough to earn his minutes backing up Paul, and his talent is any indicator, then he should be an upgrade over Barbosa last season (Leandro did well for us, but was streaky).
              • If Lance doesn't improve enough, Gerald Green will be the first wing off the bench behind PG and Granger. His much more consistent and explosive offense is an upgrade over Dahntay, but his defense has yet to be proven. Regardless, Paul's defense alone could be enough to counter what we lose without having Dahntay.
              • According to his stats, Sam Young would be a valuable second-string (and even starting) wing (G/F) on most other teams in the league (ATL, BKN, CHA, CHI, CLE, DET, HOU, LAL*, MEM, MIL, MIN, NOH, NYK, OKC, ORL, PHX, SAC, TOR, UTA, WAS, from my research). With that said, having Green and Young as the prime back-ups at the 2/3 would be an upgrade compared to Lance and Dahntay.**
              • It should be noticed that the addition of Mahinmi and Plumlee are the only additions in our frontcourt, having lost Fez, Lou, and Foster. Since Foster retired, and Mahinmi and Plumlee† both have height and skill over Lou and Fez (respectively), I would call these additions an upgrade. Because Lou was Roy's primary back-up, Fez received a grand total of 17 minutes in 3 games played last season. Therefore, directly comparing Mahinmi to Fez would not only be unfair, it would show that Mahinmi himself is a clear upgrade over Fez.


              When breaking it down like this, our bench, as it stands, has been majorly upgraded, to the point that even our starting line-up could upgrade pending the seasonal development of some of these players. And even though it goes without mentioning, I am filled with anticipation for this upcoming season. We were #3 in the East last year, and #5 in the league. Some would call that a fluke, or pure luck, but this is our year to prove we belong in the presence of the Eastern giants.

              The point I've been trying to make is that we are much better than we were last year, and there is no reason why we can't do much better than we did last year. Though there's a lot of sun shining through my post, there's also a lot of logic.

              I believe in the 2012-13 Indiana Pacers, and you should too!





              * Jodie Meeks is listed as Kobe's back-up on Yahoo!'s depth charts. My statement implies that the teams listed have players in the 2/3 spot who are ≤ Young.

              ** This is implying that starting players from the mentioned seasons would not be backing up other positions. For example, Hill/PG/DG aren't considered to back-up 2/3/4, since they already start at 1/2/3. Because I'm discussing the bench, my statement stands that the values of non-starting back-up players (Lance, Young, Green, Dahntay, DJA, DC, etc.) are in consideration.

              † Given that Plumlee has yet to prove himself on an official NBA court, it's hard to say that he will be an upgrade over Lou. Especially because Lou's contribution last season was far greater than we expected from him. However (I know this is a lot to ask for), if Plumlee mixed his own height and skillset with Lou's hustle, motor, and execution, as well as Hansbrough's fearlessness to get to the line, then we'd be even more upgraded than I imagine.
              witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

              Originally posted by Day-V
              In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
              Originally posted by Slick Pinkham
              Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.


              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                Originally posted by imbtyler View Post
                I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.
                .
                WE have the same starting line up as last year, the same line up that absolutely melted when Granger got hurt. Until proven otherwise, Danny Granger is the Pacers. Roy Hibbert might have gotten the big contract, but he isn't the number 1 option on this team.
                You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                  It's not like West was suddenly going to be faster. I'm fine with him adding more strength or mass.

                  Then again, tone could just mean he looks more cut.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                    For the record, I'd say Gerald Green, role wise, replaces Barbosa, while Lance is replacing Dahntay Jones. Barbosa was the off the bench scoring threat, and that will also be Gerald Green's role if he can fill it. If Lance can simply play good defense and not be terrible on offense than our two new wing players should be a net positive over the former.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                      Originally posted by imbtyler View Post
                      I might just be crazy (there's actually a very good chance of that), but I really think that this team, as it's built now, may end up being better off without Granger by the end of the season. Again, this is just crazy speculation, but given that the starting line-up could change over the course of the next 82 regular season games, we could potentially see an on-court line-up that flourishes without Granger commanding it.
                      Dude you are really making it difficult for me to not take these type of statements out on Paul George.

                      It's not his fault that his fans see Danny as an obsticle but man this gets irritatiting.

                      I'll say it again, they do not play the game the same way. They compliment each other on the defensive end quite well and until proven otherwise they can co exist on offense.

                      Training camp hasn't even started yet & you guys are already on this stuff.

                      No offense btw, you can like whoever you want but for those of us who happen to still like Danny it is frustrating because it seems like you guys are trying to make us choose one or the other when I feel like they are greater as a combo than either of them is as an individual.


                      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                        I just hope if PG does step it up offensively we don't get a bunch of "see! Danny's scoring less and Paul's scoring more! We don't need Danny!" There's only so many buckets to go around, if you want George to get up to 16 points a night or whatever then someone's scoring's going to suffer and it'd probably be Danny. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, I just hope people understand that.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                          When's the Pacer's media day?
                          "We've got to be very clear about this. We don't want our players hanging around with murderers," said Larry Bird, Pacers president.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                            Originally posted by Peck View Post
                            Dude you are really making it difficult for me to not take these type of statements out on Paul George.

                            It's not his fault that his fans see Danny as an obsticle but man this gets irritatiting.

                            I'll say it again, they do not play the game the same way. They compliment each other on the defensive end quite well and until proven otherwise they can co exist on offense.

                            Training camp hasn't even started yet & you guys are already on this stuff.

                            No offense btw, you can like whoever you want but for those of us who happen to still like Danny it is frustrating because it seems like you guys are trying to make us choose one or the other when I feel like they are greater as a combo than either of them is as an individual.
                            I wasn't saying that we won't need Granger anymore or anything like that. What I was implying was, as a whole, I would like to see our team be able to function properly without Granger in the line-up. That way, if he goes down for a few games, or his knee starts acting up again, we can be sure that the rest of the team will still be able to pull out a win.

                            Truthfully, I'm still in the group of people who would prefer to have Paul and Granger playing together. Granger is now the longest-tenured Pacer on the squad. I'm not really an "either/or" guy when it comes to PG and DG. But, if a superstar-less team can win without their (arguably) best player, that's saying a lot for the team. And it's not so much to ask. If any team can do it, I think it's this one.

                            Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
                            Last edited by imbtyler; 09-27-2012, 04:11 AM.
                            witters: @imbtyler, @postgameonline

                            Originally posted by Day-V
                            In conclusion, Paul George is awesome.
                            Originally posted by Slick Pinkham
                            Our arena, their arena, Rucker park, it just doesn't matter. We're bigger, longer, younger, faster, and hungrier.


                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by imbtyler View Post

                              Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
                              Whatever you just hate his name:-)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Wells blog: Updates on Granger's knee, West's upper body, and Vogel's comments on the new guys

                                Originally posted by imbtyler View Post

                                Really, the only player I'm ready to see out of a Pacers jersey at this point is Hansbrough. I've had it out for him the last couple seasons, and would reallllllllyyyy love for him to turn around this year so he's not "useless" to us. But one of my biggest fears is the whole team doing well, and Hansbrough unnecessarily slowing down the tempo of the game, or throwing a wrench in the gears of the team workflow.
                                That was a nice overview of the roster in the previous post.

                                But I thought Ian and Plums were also supposed to play some four. If Hans continues to disappoint, I was hoping one of Ian and Plums, or both, could end up being the backup 4. Particularly, it seems more realistic that Ian might do this. Wasn't that in the discussion when we traded for him?

                                Come playoff time, when we shorten the roster, this "X man" could be the backup for the 4 and the 5.
                                "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

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