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Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

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  • #16
    Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

    Originally posted by Speed View Post
    I mean only one team wins it each year, its a finite number of championships. Yes its the goal, but its everyones goal, every year. The other guys are on scholarship too. You do HAVE to be good then be great, it is a building process or you get incredibly lucky and get the number one pick in a year that the #1 or #2 pick is Durant or Lebron. When people say just need to go for championships, and all due respect Heisenberg and Peck, what the hell do you think they are trying to do? There's no magic elixir. Pat Riley and Spoelstra didn't 'will' the Heat to the ring, two guys decided to stack the deck and it worked. It just wears on me, its so Indy call in sports talk radio.
    People want to see the potential ceiling of this team to be raised. That's it. It doesn't matter if the team is sitting at 25 wins a season. If they have all the potential in the world? That means everything.

    Right now, though I am not certain, I assume Peck and Heisenberg believe this team has a ceiling to be no better than the 3rd or 4th best team in the NBA. On the other hand there are quite a few opposing teams that have unlimited potential. And I don't just mean Miami and OKC.

    Edit- Here's a question, who do you think is more excited about this season, Hornets fans or Pacers fans?? I'd bet Hornets fans are! Even though everyone KNOWS the Pacers will be better. But Why?

    Because the Hornets truly have a foundation to compete with ANYONE in the future. They really do. Who knows how it'll play out. The Brow could be a flop, EJ could never be healthy etc.. but they truly do have a foundation to compete with anyone. The Pacers look like they could have possibly peaked with the team constructed as is. If no one is willing to try to upgrade the team, isn't that disappointing?
    Last edited by mattie; 07-24-2012, 08:17 AM.

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    • #17
      Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

      I also love the part where he is telling people that they have been wrong before like the time he drafted Reggie and nobody wanted him, how long ago that s*** happened? he is trying to prove people wrong by telling them that he was right one time 30 years ago? SMH.
      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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      • #18
        Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

        [QUOTE=mattie;1487153]THIS.


        Jim Irsay over the last decade made every move possible to make the Colts contenders. They *only* won one Superbowl. Yet the moves were made to allow that team to compete. They didn't play the loyalty card to guys who couldn't get the job. See how Vanderjagt was run out of town because he couldn't cut it. A front office MUST have that mentality

        The Colts had one superstar they built around and never ventured into free agency other then Adam V. They always overvauled their own players outside of linbackers and running backs. Your statement has no legs. you seem fixated on this whole trade for a superstar thing yet who in there right mind would want Granger or a 30 something PF for a bonafide game changer it takes 2 to tango.

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        • #19
          Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

          You know, Donnie could get every player in the league except LBJ, Kobe, Wade, Howard, and Durant and people would still complain he didn't build a championship team because those guys would beat the Pacers.

          Whatever. You have to get to the finals before you can win the championship. You have to get to the second round before you can get to the finals. Unless you are spending $100M to buy a championship and let the team go the next year, you have to build a team from pieces.

          We've gone from "Donnie Do-Nothing" who makes no moves at all to "Donnie Do-Nothing" who signed two in-house RFAs instead of letting them walk, made a multi-player trade, and signed two FAs who have been on everyone's radar for a number of years. OK, fine, I understand people think these moves weren't enough, we should have extorted NO into not matching EJ and then signed him to a max to be our next Jon Bender, but how is this "do nothing"?

          This is all about "Donnie didn't get the guy I think is the magic bullet", not "Donnie didn't do anything to try to improve the team".
          BillS

          A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
          Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

            Originally posted by mattie View Post
            Here's a question, who do you think is more excited about this season, Hornets fans or Pacers fans?? I'd bet Hornets fans are! Even though everyone KNOWS the Pacers will be better. But Why?

            Because the Hornets truly have a foundation to compete with ANYONE in the future. They really do. Who knows how it'll play out. The Brow could be a flop, EJ could never be healthy etc.. but they truly do have a foundation to compete with anyone. The Pacers look like they could have possibly peaked with the team constructed as is. If no one is willing to try to upgrade the team, isn't that disappointing?
            So a team with high potential that falls completely apart is better than a team that is stable and has a more gradual upside?

            Damn, we should have been selling out the year Ron-Ron came back from the brawl. Oh, yeah, that's right, since Donnie put that team together it was totally unrisky and boring and had no potential at all.
            BillS

            A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
            Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

              Originally posted by mattie View Post
              Edit- Here's a question, who do you think is more excited about this season, Hornets fans or Pacers fans?? I'd bet Hornets fans are! Even though everyone KNOWS the Pacers will be better. But Why?

              Because the Hornets truly have a foundation to compete with ANYONE in the future. They really do. Who knows how it'll play out. The Brow could be a flop, EJ could never be healthy etc.. but they truly do have a foundation to compete with anyone. The Pacers look like they could have possibly peaked with the team constructed as is. If no one is willing to try to upgrade the team, isn't that disappointing?

              I have to assume I am mis-reading your post. Are you suggesting that the Pacers are not willing to try to upgrade the team?

              Thus thread is very frustrating

              Comment


              • #22
                Yes. Donnie never took a risk to try and win a title (green). If pairing Stephen Jackson with Ron Artest wasn't an all or nothing, shoot for the moon transaction then I don't know what is.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                  Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                  I have to assume I am mis-reading your post. Are you suggesting that the Pacers are not willing to try to upgrade the team?

                  Thus thread is very frustrating
                  I think he meant "upgrade the team" to win a championship not "upgrade the team" to be a decent playoffs team, and no Bills nobody is asking to spend a 100mil dollars.
                  @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                  • #24
                    Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                    NY actually took a big step backwards by losing Lin. Brooklyn may be better than they were last season, but they were horrible last season. Chicago is a borderline playoff team w/o Rose, and Boston lost Ray Allen and is a year older. I don't see any of these teams leap-frogging the Pacers.

                    Originally posted by OlBlu View Post
                    I wonder if any of the skeptics out there note that Walsh said Miami, NY and Brooklyn will all be better this year. Add Chicago and Boston to that mix and you will see why some of us keep saying that as they are right now, the Pacers are a fifth or sixth seed. An injury to any of the teams could change all of that and make the Pacers higher or lower....... ... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. CTRL+F5 reloads the whole page.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                      Maybe we will be fortunate and Carl Landry doesn't work anything out with Golden State or Charlotte, then he agrees to take our cap MLE of ~2.6m to spend a year or two here.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                        I'm confused.

                        What is it actually that people want? Is it more risk taking? Is it a perception of "going after the stars"?

                        Is it simply a championship?

                        There are a whole host of strategies that will get a team to a championship. You can complain about a lot, but you can't complain about a "lack of strategy" from the FO. They have a clear one. It's not clear to me, at least, that many teams have been able to collect our specific set of attributes and apply this type of strategy. For example, many people think our team's outcome will be similar to Atlanta. but the Hawks clearly lacked the chemistry that our kids have. Trailblazers got seriously bit by the injury bug, etc.

                        Isn't the journey and the process part of the fun of it all?

                        There's a lot of chemistry, youth, and talent on this team that simply hasn't played itself out.

                        Hopefully, our players have more mental fortitude to believe in their own success than most of the denizens on the forum lately. It's as if they shouldn't even bother?

                        Are you all just bored and playing mental gymnastics in the offseason?

                        You all are announcing our team's death, when it's just becoming a teenager?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                          If this team is going to go up another level, it's going to have to come through our guys' internal improvement. George is going to have to take a major leap in production, and other core players like Hibbert and Hill have to continue to get better.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                            Originally posted by docpaul View Post
                            I'm confused.

                            What is it actually that people want? Is it more risk taking? Is it a perception of "going after the stars"?

                            Is it simply a championship?

                            There are a whole host of strategies that will get a team to a championship. You can complain about a lot, but you can't complain about a "lack of strategy" from the FO. They have a clear one. It's not clear to me, at least, that many teams have been able to collect our specific set of attributes and apply this type of strategy. For example, many people think our team's outcome will be similar to Atlanta. but the Hawks clearly lacked the chemistry that our kids have. Trailblazers got seriously bit by the injury bug, etc.

                            Isn't the journey and the process part of the fun of it all?

                            There's a lot of chemistry, youth, and talent on this team that simply hasn't played itself out.

                            Hopefully, our players have more mental fortitude to believe in their own success than most of the denizens on the forum lately. It's as if they shouldn't even bother?

                            Are you all just bored and playing mental gymnastics in the offseason?

                            You all are announcing our team's death, when it's just becoming a teenager?
                            I guess we just forgot to put on our blue and gold glasses. Apparently they make every move the team makes, not only the correct one, but the only one possible. I've consistantly heard those wearing them tell me how the GS trade was good ("it had to be done") while a few of us said it would lead to cap hell, heard how Hansbrough was a great pick ("because the Pacers can't gamble on a Holiday type"), how JOB was the only possible option to coach this team (no one else would take it), how the team can't afford any down years (32 wins apparently saved us, but 26 wins would have caused the team to move to LA), how the Pacers have never been players in FA only because they've never had cap space (seems they did this year?), or they are willing to spend, but no one wants to come here (except every quote we heard before and every quote after free agency we hear from TPTB indicates they never tried).

                            So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.

                            If people want to start telling me that makes me a bad fan - go ahead. The only reason it pisses me off is because I care about the team. I think they could do more and they sell the city and the team short by hiding behind the small market. This same market just cut arguably the greatest QB in history because it was right for the team long term. And unless the Pacers change their ways, the Colts will continue to expand their domination of the Pacers when it comes to fans. Hell, the Colts, coming off the worst record in the league, are closer to a title than the Pacers are, IMO. When they win another one before the Pacers do, it will finally give TPTB a reason for their apparent inferiority complex.
                            Last edited by rm1369; 07-24-2012, 10:54 PM. Reason: Spelling errors

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                            • #29
                              Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                              Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                              I guess we just forgot to put on our blue and gold glasses. Apparently they make every move the team make, not only the correct one, but the only one possible. I've consistantly heard those wearing them tell me how the GS trade was good ("it had to be done") while a fewsod us said it would lead to cap helll, heard how Hansbrough was a great pick ("because the Pacers can't gamble on a Holiday type"), how JOB was the only possible option to coach this team (no one else would take it), how the team can't afford any down years (32 wins apparently saved us, but 26 wins would have caused the team to move to LA), how the Pacers have never been players in FA only because they've never had cap space (seems they did this year?), or they are willing to spend, but no one wants to come here (except every quote we heard before and every quote after free agency we hear from TPTB indicates they never tried).

                              So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.

                              If people want to start telling me that makes me a bad fan - go ahead. The only reason it pisses me off is because I care about the team. I think they could do more and they sell the city and the team short by hiding behind the small market. This same market just cut arguably the greatest QB in history because it was right for the team long term. And unless the Pacers change their ways, the Colts will continue to expand their domination of the Pacers when it comes to fans. Hell, the Colts, coming off the worst record in the league, are closer to a title than the Pacers are, IMO. When they win another one before the Pacers do, it will finally give TPTB a reason for there apparent inferiority complex.

                              Just a thank you is not enough.

                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                              • #30
                                Re: Donnie Walsh: "We have to go up a level"

                                Originally posted by rm1369 View Post
                                So you'll have to excuse me for not believing it when I'm told this is a championship level team by that same group. I can clearly see this team is lacking the top level talent and, most importantly, go to guy to win a title. If I heard they were looking for that and I thought they were accumulating pieces to make that happen, I may be excited. But I keep being told they want to upgrade the damn bench. Couple that with the conservative history of the team ( and DW in particular) and I have very little excitement for the upcoming season.
                                I can definitely see the rationale behind using the retrospect-o-scope to be critical of previous moves that didn't work out. I can definitely see the value in praising moves that did work out.

                                But what I can't understand is trying to prejudge moves before they've even had a chance to play themselves out.

                                I could even understand a line of argument, that was based on an objective review of real data. IE, I looked at Green's play with other teams, and I think he's a terrible fit for our team in the following ways.

                                But so much of what is creating the red meat around here is based on supposition, and frustration with the FO on "not making better moves". Can we start having a discussion on specifics? Who would have been a better move? Why? Why were our moves so terrible?

                                Isn't it even remotely possible, that one or more of the players on our active roster develop into our go-to scorer?

                                This is not about being a "good" or a "bad" fan, it's just about being grounded in the substrate of a real conversation.

                                I have real concerns for example, that Hill is being set up in the starting point guard role. He is better suited to be in offensive attack mode, at SG... and can get his own shot if he's allowed to focus on this, both inside and out. He has great defensive chops too, with his impressive wingspan. He over dribbles often in half court sets, and just never really seemed to have chops as a distributor/set up guy. I see him as a starting SG or 1st off the bench player.

                                But I can't be too upset about what the FO did about this specfic team deficit during the offseason (although I think his contract was a little too rich for my blood... 7/year would have felt better), as they signed a pure point in DJ Augustine, who has real potential to be a great point in the right system.

                                I think Hill is a better 6th man than Collison, and brings a much better defensive presence.

                                Shrug, I just want to talk about actual Xs and Os.
                                Last edited by docpaul; 07-24-2012, 01:52 PM.

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