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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

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  • #76
    Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

    we werent gonna bid on a PF unless we were able to unload Hansbrough

    Comment


    • #77
      Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

      Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
      we werent gonna bid on a PF unless we were able to unload Hansbrough
      Because?

      Comment


      • #78
        Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

        I would have loved to have Scola on the team, but even with him and Green the only additions, lets say, does that put us over the top next year? He has a lot more mileage on him than West does, even though he is one year older. Does his production fall off more after another summer of Olympic play? Brand is even older. I just don't see them being what we need to take the next step, but then again, i could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

        Comment


        • #79
          Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

          Originally posted by cinotimz View Post
          Because?
          log jam at PF, paying Tyler 3 mil to sit on the bench, and i dont think the FO wants to do that to Tyler, just like they didnt want to hamper DC

          Comment


          • #80
            Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

            Originally posted by cinotimz View Post
            Because?
            the only thing I can think of is that we did not bring in a better backup PF because West would be pissed if we brought in a backup who legitimately challenged him for PT in a contract year. causing locker room / chemistry problems.

            Comment


            • #81
              Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

              Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
              I would have loved to have Scola on the team, but even with him and Green the only additions, lets say, does that put us over the top next year? He has a lot more mileage on him than West does, even though he is one year older. Does his production fall off more after another summer of Olympic play? Brand is even older. I just don't see them being what we need to take the next step, but then again, i could be completely wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.
              Over the top? Highly unlikely...but better? I dunno....Whos better, Tyler or Scola? and they would cost about the same...thats the scary part. And you could have Scola for a nother couple years at that price...thats just tremendous value...at a position with serious questions going forward. Not to mention I think he would quickly become a fan favorite.

              Comment


              • #82
                Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                Originally posted by dal9 View Post
                the only thing I can think of is that we did not bring in a better backup PF because West would be pissed if we brought in a backup who legitimately challenged him for PT in a contract year. causing locker room / chemistry problems.
                I doubt Wests playing time would be affected much. They would probably play a fair amount of time together. And west would definitely benefit from that given Scolas style of play. Remember West getting worn down at the end of games in the Miami series. Give him the right amount of minutes to maximize his play. And Scola is just significantly better than Tyler. Just no two ways about it.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                  Originally posted by ilive4sports View Post
                  log jam at PF, paying Tyler 3 mil to sit on the bench, and i dont think the FO wants to do that to Tyler, just like they didnt want to hamper DC
                  Somebody has to sit on the bench. Only 5 play at a time...and god knows weve paid a ton more than 3 million to sit on the bench. God forbid we get better on fantastic financial deal like that would be. All this concern over LT and salary cap, and yet a steal comes along at a position of need and we totally whiff.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                    What if we don't win the bidding? I think the FO was more comfortable knowing what they had in hand instead of what they might end up with.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                      Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
                      What if we don't win the bidding? I think the FO was more comfortable knowing what they had in hand instead of what they might end up with.
                      Not sure much needed to change. If managed properly couldve likely just been an addition. And if we lose the bidding then we have exactly what we have now.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                        You sent PS&E your extensive resume yet cinotimz? I mean hell, you know the market better than the people who actually set it.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                          Originally posted by Heisenberg View Post
                          You sent PS&E your extensive resume yet cinotimz? I mean hell, you know the market better than the people who actually set it.
                          I doubt they could afford me

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                            I think some of you are getting so defensive because you are afraid cinotimz might be right. First Donnie Walsh has a long history of over paying players. Tinsley's deal is one of the best examples but 40 million for George Hill is going to look pretty bad in a couple of years. Sixteen million for Mahinmi also seems a little spendy. If Simon is worried about money why would he even let Walsh into the building? Reasonable deals for these two would have saved the Pacers more cash than the chickenfeed they were paying Jones
                            . OK with the acquisitions but the pacers overpaid and many of you who are long-term fans should be able to see the pattern repeating.

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                              FWIW, I had no problem with moving DC and D. Jones for cap space. Cap space can go for surprising amounts some times - for example, Minnesota just paid two 2nd rounders to NOH to get ~800k of cap space. So I'm willing to give the FO the benefit of the doubt and assume that trading DC and Dahntay for nothing is the best deal on the table at the time.

                              What bothers me more is what we didn't do with the cap space - which was that we didn't make full use of it. I like our signings well enough, but we're at least $5m below the tax line. It seems odd that we should stop spending when we still have needs and there are still good players left on the market. Especially since we knew that cap space would disappear once we sign our RFAs.

                              Possible reasons why we did so: 1) Hibbert and Hill's agents forced the issue of timing. This seems unlikely to me, as both players have already waited a while and a few more days isn't going to hurt them. Plus, the Pacers have an excellent rationale to ask them to wait a little longer. You'd think that the agents would continue to play ball, just to maintain good will. 2) Our FO just isn't interested in the remaining players out there, save for maybe Barbosa or similar budget player, who we can still sign with our $2.5m room exception. The problem with this is that it misses the opportunity for adding amnesty players on the cheap, since acquiring amnesty players requires cap space, and can't be done with exceptions. 3) I mentioned this possibility in another thread, and it's one that I'm not very comfortable with. But it's possible that we're operating on a self-imposed spending cap that's comfortably below the tax line (say $65m as compared to $70m for the tax). It could be that our owner is only comfortable spending up to this amount, it could be that our FO wanted to maintain future flexibility in the face of expected future spending. It would explain though why we've been dancing around balancing contracts like an over the cap team would - Shinn's Hornets and the current Grizzlies do this all the time, for example. Regardless of why, again the problem with this is it misses the chance of adding cheap contributors from amnesty. If we do end up going over budget after all, we still have plenty of time to dump a contract (like Hans' $3m expiring).

                              So what could the FO have done to make me a happier fan this offseason? For me, it's simply to wait through the amnesty period before finalizing Hibbert's and Hill's contracts. The amnesty period this year is from 11 July to 18 July - players can't be amnestied outside of this period. So just wait it out, bid on players that make sense for us, and if we miss, well we end up exactly where we are now. Surely we could have waited a week to do this.

                              At the very least, I hope they frontloaded Hill, Mahinmi, and Green's deals as much as possible. Which is to say, instead of standard escalating contracts, I hope we gave them flat or even decreasing contracts. That would at least have made more use of this season's cap space (as compared to escalating contracts) before that cap space disappeared into the ether.

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Re: Cash Considerations kept quiet in the Mahinmi/Dallas deal??

                                Originally posted by cinotimz View Post
                                I doubt they could afford me
                                I agree. That Pacers would be in Settle within 3 years.

                                I really think that would have stood a good chance of happening if they hadn't resigned Hibbert.

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