Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

    Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
    i think sturmmer is 50% right. according to wikipedia, 50% of the luxury tax payments are reserved for teams under the cap. the rest can be used as the league wants.
    Wikipedia is wrong (fancy that!). Wikipedia is referencing Larry Coon's article, but misquoted it. We've previously discussed it: http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?t=67134

    Here's the actual text:

    Distribution of luxury-tax funds

    • 2005 CBA: Teams that did not pay tax each received 1/30th of the total tax fund. Taxpaying teams forfeited their tax distribution -- their money was used for "league purposes" such as the revenue-sharing program.

    • 2011 CBA: No more than 50 percent of the tax funds can go exclusively to teams that did not pay tax.

    • Who benefits? The previous tax system created a "cliff" at the tax threshold -- a team that was $1 under the tax line received a full tax distribution (about $2.4 million in 2011), but a team that was $1 over the tax line didn't receive anything.

    Because of this cliff, teams needed to be very careful with their spending when they were near the tax threshold -- in fact, it looks like Houston was burned in 2011 by straying just $800,000 above the limit. The new system softens the blow for teams that exceed the tax line by just a little. For example, under the new system, Houston would have had to pay $800,000 in tax, but may have been eligible for a payout to offset their tax bill.

    However, while the new agreement stipulates that no more than 50 percent of the tax funds can go exclusively to teams that did not pay tax, it doesn't specify what happens to the other 50 percent. It is possible the remaining tax money will be distributed to all teams in equal shares, but it's also possible the NBA will reserve this money for "league purposes."
    Refer to the part in bold. Full share of available money (the 50%) goes to non-taxpayers, not to teams under the cap. The league decides what to do with the rest. Most probably it will go towards supporting the poorer teams, without regards to what their payroll is like.

    Originally posted by xIndyFan View Post
    strummer's point is important. there will be other guys on teams between the cap and the tax that might want to cut guys to get below the cap.
    That's possible, but it won't be to get a greater share of luxury tax payments.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

      Originally posted by Anthem View Post
      I'll kick things off. One deal I'd be looking at would be acquiring Morrow from the Nets, then Jermaine O'Neal from the Celtics. We should be able to get both of those players without giving up our 1st.
      For Boston, I'd rather go after a healthy body like Brandon Bass then go after JONeal. The only way that I'd go after JONeal is if the Celtics included incentive like a 1st ( doubt it ) or JuJuan Johnson. If all things were equal...I don't mind having JONeal as the Backup Center....but he'd be as effective as Foster is right now.....which is not that effective since he simply cannot stay healthy enough ( and therefore relied upon ) to make a difference.
      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

        Originally posted by imawhat View Post
        Shawn Marion, Brendan Haywood, possibly Odom, but I'm not sure who else. I've been saying for weeks that I expect the Pacers to get Marion if anyone.
        Pass on Brandon Haywood and his 5 year $36 to 46 mil contract. As for Marion....he'd be an impact Player....but I'm not sure about his 3 year / $25 mil contract. As for Odom, he's an emotional wreak since leaving LaLaLand...so pass. Jason Terry is the only Player from the Mavs that I'd consider.....he'd be as "clutch" as JCraw is....but I doubt that the Mavs would part with him.
        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

          Originally posted by Ozwalt72 View Post
          I'm interpreting this correctly?
          I believe you are. Time to update the ignore list again.
          This space for rent.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

            Originally posted by CableKC View Post
            For Boston, I'd rather go after a healthy body like Brandon Bass then go after JONeal.
            It's all about cost, man. Jermaine would be cheap, Bass would be expensive.

            What would you give up to get Bass?
            This space for rent.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

              Originally posted by CableKC View Post
              Pass on Brandon Haywood and his 5 year $36 to 46 mil contract. As for Marion....he'd be an impact Player....but I'm not sure about his 3 year / $25 mil contract. As for Odom, he's an emotional wreak since leaving LaLaLand...so pass. Jason Terry is the only Player from the Mavs that I'd consider.....he'd be as "clutch" as JCraw is....but I doubt that the Mavs would part with him.
              Marion still has 3 years on his contract??? At a little over $8M. Wow. I wanted Marion till I knew that.
              First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                Originally posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
                Im still thinkin Mayo could be had. To me that would be a nice scenerio: G Hill get back healthy, and aquire Mayo, both are free agents at the end of the year. We could sign one , neither or both.
                Remember the rumored Mayo for Morrow+1st deal a month or two ago? I thought that it was the Nets that were offering the 1st with Morrow...because the Nets wanted to clear Morrow's salary from the books and was using a 1st to do it...but I suspect that it was the Grizzlies insistance that a 1st be returned in exchange for Mayo.

                Mayo would be the only option that we have with Grizzlies. But it would likely cost the Pacers a 1st. I'm not so sure that I want to give up a 1st when the Grizzlies are in a position where they will likely want to clear space. They likely need to clear cap space as much as possible and we're one of the few Teams that can help them do this. As far as I am concerned, we are in the driver's seat when it comes to making any deal and a 1st is a "no-go" for me.

                Originally posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
                If Boston slides, possibly they look to start the rebuilding process and we could offer cap relief and players/picks for Rondo
                I can see the Celtics getting more from other Teams....and doubt that they'd actually move him UNLESS they were able to get Nash...the most I would offer would be DC+1st+TPE...but anything more than that...I'd pass.

                Originally posted by 90'sNBARocked View Post
                If amd its a big if, Dallas starts to realise they wont be able to get back to the finals this year, and they think they can bag both Darren Williams nad Dwight Howard , we could make a run at Jason Kidd, or Shawn Marion
                I don't see them moving Kidd.....Marion would be the only one...but I don't like his contract.
                Last edited by CableKC; 02-03-2012, 12:08 PM.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                  Even taking cost into consideration, why JO? Would the reasoning be sentimental, or basketball related? Because he's a shell of himself. Seeing as how the impact would primarily be for this season, I'd rather have Kaman.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                    Originally posted by Asher99 View Post
                    That's what the minimum it would take to open talks IMO. They are about to develop a major cancer with Speights who has been benched several times the last few games for poor play and lack of hustle. So if they do move Mayo they are going to dump Mo on whoever wants him if they can't get a 1st back.
                    I saw Speights play when I went to the Warriors/Grizzlies game...I was not impressed at all. He's not worth it if you ask me.
                    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                      Originally posted by wintermute View Post
                      Another thought - let's say we land Kaman. Could we swing him to a 3rd team that values him more? One that doesn't have the cap space to deal directly with NOH? To us, Kaman's a backup C, but to another team he could be the starter.
                      I already have suggested being the "facilitator" in a 3 way trade:

                      Rockets send out - 1st round pick from the Rockets or Knicks ( pick whichever one ) + Jordan Hill + Courtney Lee or TWill ( pick 1 )
                      Rockets receive - Kaman

                      Pacers send out - TPE + Pacers 2nd round pick
                      Pacers receive - 1st round pick from the Rockets or Knicks ( pick whichever one would be lower ) + Jordan Hill + Courtney Lee or TWill ( pick 1 )

                      Hornets send out - Kaman
                      Hornets receive - TPE + Pacers 2nd round pick


                      I suspect that the Rockets would have to put more Salary in to make this work...but this would be the foundation for a trade scenario where the Pacers use their Capspace while getting assets.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                        Originally posted by QuickRelease View Post
                        Even taking cost into consideration, why JO? Would the reasoning be sentimental, or basketball related? Because he's a shell of himself. Seeing as how the impact would primarily be for this season, I'd rather have Kaman.
                        I suspect that it's a combination of both.....when healthy...JONeal makes sense....but the problem is that he's not.
                        Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                          Originally posted by Sparhawk View Post
                          Marion still has 3 years on his contract??? At a little over $8M. Wow. I wanted Marion till I knew that.
                          http://www.hoopsworld.com/dallas-mavericks-team-salary

                          Shawn Marion
                          2011-2012 - $7,725,932
                          2012-2013 - $8,396,364
                          2013-2014 - $9,066,796-Early Termination Option

                          Total Guaranteed owed - $25.19 mil over 3 years

                          Brendan Haywood
                          2011-2012 - $7,624,500
                          2012-2013 - $8,349,000
                          2013-2014 - $9,073,500
                          2014-2015 - $9,798,000
                          2015-2016 - $10,522,500-Non Guaranteed Contract

                          Total Guaranteed - $34.845 owed over the next 4 seasons

                          Marion's Contract isn't THAT bad....I just don't want any contracts that last beyond the 2012-2013 season.
                          Last edited by CableKC; 02-03-2012, 12:14 PM.
                          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                            Originally posted by TheDavisBrothers View Post
                            He's also got the worst shot selection of anyone in the entire league!
                            in your opinion

                            but not a fact
                            Sittin on top of the world!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                              Originally posted by DAVIDLOCKHART40 View Post
                              can't you see there is another thread about this topic? what a stupid post.
                              says the guy from Kentucky , with 150 posts

                              not off to a good start dude, Anthem is a vet here
                              Sittin on top of the world!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Besides Kaman, who else might be available for cap space?

                                Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                                I already have suggested being the "facilitator" in a 3 way trade:

                                Rockets send out - 1st round pick from the Rockets or Knicks ( pick whichever one ) + Jordan Hill + Courtney Lee or TWill ( pick 1 )
                                Rockets receive - Kaman

                                Pacers send out - TPE + Pacers 2nd round pick
                                Pacers receive - 1st round pick from the Rockets or Knicks ( pick whichever one would be lower ) + Jordan Hill + Courtney Lee or TWill ( pick 1 )

                                Hornets send out - Kaman
                                Hornets receive - TPE + Pacers 2nd round pick


                                I suspect that the Rockets would have to put more Salary in to make this work...but this would be the foundation for a trade scenario where the Pacers use their Capspace while getting assets.
                                I didn't think you could trade Exceptions. Plus, I think Courtney Lee would be redundant with George Hill.
                                Last edited by NapTonius Monk; 02-03-2012, 12:36 PM.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X