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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

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  • #16
    Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

    Someone (can't remember who) said last week in a game thread that he didn't think Vogel had any idea what to do with a clipboard during a timeout. Thankfully most people haven't been that extreme in their rhetoric but there has been a small handful of people that say or imply that Coach Vogel is a "only" motivator.

    We're better coming out of timeouts than we were early last year - in fact, for years under JOB I had very little hope that we would score out of a timeout. Now it's no longer a surprise when we do. We make adjustments at the half. Several players have talked about Vogel doing this or that thing for them this season, like this:

    "Vogel made sure to run some plays for Hill early.

    "I'm still new to this team," Hill said. "A lot of the guys have been here. The coach did a couple of things that I was familiar with. He put in a couple of new plays that got me going, that worked well for us, especially the second unit."
    http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...t-Magic-106-85

    Players on opposing teams have made a point to call the Pacers well coached. Some Bulls player (can't remember, it was posted recently) said how impressed he was that Vogel made the adjustments to hang with their coach during the playoffs last year. The man knows basketball, even if his strategies don't work right away. It's a process, like force feeding Danny in the post. It looked ugly at first and a number of people were calling for it to stop. But they stuck with putting him down there a few times per game. Danny has gotten a lot better and the post-up is becoming another go to move for Granger. It's clear that Vogel is more than a rah-rah cheerleader. He has expectations and he inspires the guys to want to meet them. He has put his imprint on the roster in a big time way - these guys get their sense of team identity through him, his leadership and his strategies for putting them in the best position to succeed.

    I can't wait to see what he does in a normal season with a training camp and regular practices. I think only Doug Collins is competition for Vogel when it comes to the COY award at this point.
    "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

    "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

    "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

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    • #17
      Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

      The verdict is still out!
      Garbage players get 1st round picks, (WTF)! All of the NBA must hate the Pacers! LOL

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

        Originally posted by Pacer Fan View Post
        The verdict is still out!
        gonna go ahead and write down "the greatest" for you

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

          Originally posted by gummy View Post
          Players on opposing teams have made a point to call the Pacers well coached. Some Bulls player (can't remember, it was posted recently) said how impressed he was that Vogel made the adjustments to hang with their coach during the playoffs last year.
          Brewer.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

            Originally posted by IndySDExport View Post
            I don't think I've seen this mentioned yet.

            What is really striking to me is the strength of our play coming out of halftime.

            Last year, it always seemed that the 3rd quarter was the worst for our team: lackadaisical, bored, inept etc. Other teams were adjusting to us and taking us out of our game. We would lose games in the 3rd quarter.

            Now it seems as if the 3rd quarter is one of our strongest. I look at last night's game against Orlando as a perfect example. Frank is making the adjustments at the half. We are winning games by our 3rd quarter play alone. (Plus, we seem to be able to close games out now, but that's worthy of a separate post...)
            I said once that teams that great third quarter teams are teams that win a lot.

            Originally, I simply consider the first and last four minutes of the game, as well as the four minutes before and after halftime, to be the most important of the game. So if you come out in the third well, you've got a good shot at winning.

            But I think you could go further with the "teams that win are usually good third quarter teams" because it certainly suggests that either there are some really good locker-room leaders, and the coach is adjusting, motivating etc..at half, when he's got time to talk to his guys.

            So I really think that being a good third quarter team is really an indication of a really good coach.

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            • #21
              Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

              I think there are two different questions

              How good of a coach is Frank Vogel? Way to early in his career to determine.

              How good of a job is he doing this season with this team? he's doing great. I don't see how anyone could give him anything other than an A.


              In general though great coaches do bad jobs with certain teams. Look at Larry Brown's last year as Pacers coach - even he will admit he didn't handle things the right way. But he's still a great coach. We won't be able to answer that question about Frank for many years. (many men did a great job for a season or two or with a certain type of team and yet weren't great or even good coaches)

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              • #22
                Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                I think there are two different questions

                How good of a coach is Frank Vogel? Way to early in his career to determine.

                How good of a job is he doing this season with this team? he's doing great. I don't see how anyone could give him anything other than an A.

                In general though great coaches do bad jobs with certain teams. Look at Larry Brown's last year as Pacers coach - even he will admit he didn't handle things the right way. But he's still a great coach. We won't be able to answer that question about Frank for many years. (many men did a great job for a season or two or with a certain type of team and yet weren't great or even good coaches)
                Fair enough! I can't disagree with any of that.

                I'll just say I'm excited to see how it turns out in the years to come, because I think there's a not insignificant chance that Frank Vogel becomes a really good coach over the long haul. It's been quite awhile since I've felt this way about our team - the "I really want to see how this turns out," feeling - and I'm not sure I've ever felt that way about a coach, but I do about Vogel. I'm unashamed to admit that I've been nursing a bit of a coaching crush on Mr. V for awhile now.
                "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

                "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

                "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                  I love Frank Vogel. He could tell me to run through a concrete wall right now, and I'd totally do it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                    Originally posted by Day-V View Post
                    I love Frank Vogel. He could tell me to run through a concrete wall right now, and I'd totally do it.
                    He told me it was okay for you to do it. Have at it, bud!

                    Nah, I know Davey has a major Man-Crush on Frank. He deserves it. I think he's doing a decent job with these guys, so I'll give him a high regard.

                    Overall, still too early in his career to go too overboard.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                      Originally posted by Day-V View Post
                      I love Frank Vogel. He could tell me to run through a concrete wall right now, and I'd totally do it.
                      Oh Yeaaaaah!!!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                        Frank has done a magnificent job. Especially when you consider that he hasn't even had time to implement a real offense.

                        Defense wins!
                        First time in a long time, I've been happy with the team that was constructed, and now they struggle. I blame the coach.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                          I haven't seen this posted anywhere yet and it seems like a good thread for it:

                          http://www.nba.com/pacers/caught_web...012_01_31.html

                          In 2nd year on job, Vogel plans to cultivate offense


                          With the assistance of Brian Shaw (R), Frank Vogel has the Pacers headed for a second straight playoff berth. (NBAE/Getty Images)
                          Jan. 31, 2012 - The list of accomplishments in Frank Vogel's first calendar year as head coach is impressive:
                          • Changing the offensive identity of the team from 3-point gunners to low-post pounders;
                          • Turning a notoriously soft defense into one of the toughest in the league;
                          • Altering the rotations to include young players like Paul George and Tyler Hansbrough while building the confidence of center Roy Hibbert (among others);
                          • Bringing an entirely new, positive, youthful culture to the team;
                          • Reinforcing the players' sense that they can be something other than mediocre.

                          For any coach to tick all those boxes in such a short period of time is impressive. For a guy that hadn't done it before, it is much more. That's why he has been able to take a team that was 10 games under .500 last Jan. 30 (17-27) and headed back to the lottery and turn it into a team that has gone 10 games over .500 in his tenure (33-23) and seems destined for a second consecutive playoff berth.

                          "It's amazing what he's done, how he's transformed us and how he's given us a different identity," Danny Granger said. "It's really quite remarkable."

                          In Vogel's mind, the biggest key was getting the players to believe. When he took over from Jim O'Brien, one of his first statements was that he thought this should be a playoff team, a goal that appeared out of reach at the time but was achieved after a 20-17 finish. It wasn't rhetoric. Vogel was convinced the talent was there. He just had to convince the talent.

                          "I think it probably has the most to do with belief," Vogel said. "That's the biggest hurdle when you're going from being a lottery team to a playoff team, finding a way to believe that you can do it and that you're good enough. We had some building blocks last year, every little success that we had we made sure we really highlighted that with our guys and tried to get them to believe."

                          The players not only like Vogel, they respect him and assistants Brian Shaw, Jim Boylen and Dan Burke. They see the adjustments made before, during and after games. They hear the positive reinforcement and heed the tough talk.

                          "He's tough when he has to be and he's always encouraging," Roy Hibbert said. "And he makes us believe in ourselves, in the team, in the concept and in the fact that we can win now as opposed to staying in a rebuilding phase."

                          As much as the Pacers have accomplished under Vogel, there is much to be done. The defense has solidified but the offense remains erratic. Vogel is still learning how best to use new weapons David West and George Hill while the players are adapting to a system that demands movement, unselfishness and the ability to read and react to the defense.

                          "I keep telling our guys we have a chance to be scary good offensively from the standpoint of having size and the ability to pound teams inside but also we have speed," Vogel said. "Most teams in the league have one or the other. We've got a chance to have both.

                          "Our tempo is really starting to come, we've got a strong post presence with our frontcourt guys and our wing guys' ability to post. The combination of size and speed developing into an offensive force is what I look to come."

                          Making the playoffs was good enough last year. Winning a series is the primary goal this season. A top-four seed and homecourt advantage in the first round is within reach but will not be easily grasped.

                          To even be having this discussion is a tribute to Vogel, his staff and the players' ability to succeed while making comprehensive changes.

                          "We've had dramatic improvement but I still don't think we've scratched the surface of what we can be," Vogel said. "I don't know what the ceiling is with this team or if it has a ceiling. I think the sky's the limit."

                          When other people say those words, they sound cliché. Somehow, when hearing them from Vogel, you just can't help but believe.
                          "Freedom is nothing else but a chance to be better." - Albert Camus

                          "Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire

                          "Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                            Indy has 2 incredible basketball coaches with similar stories to begin their career.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: How Good of a coach is Frank Vogel

                              Originally posted by Mackey_Rose View Post
                              The best comparison I can think of for Frank Vogel, is Brad Stevens.

                              That's a very, very good thing.
                              I agree 100%. I actually think Stevens would make a really good NBA coach, if he ever got such an inkling to make the switch.

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