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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Josh Smith Availability

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  • Re: Josh Smith Availability

    I don't want anything to do with OJ Mayo or Al Jefferson, unless we get them for cheap, i.e. cap relief and spare parts.

    They play little to no defense. Nor do they care to. No Thanks.
    "Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

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    • Re: Josh Smith Availability

      Originally posted by cdash View Post
      Iguodala 100 times out of 100. Doubt Philly trades him though, besides the Evan Turner factor they have no reason to do so.
      Well I knew you would say that....

      They may want to cut salary but they would want a pretty good package for Iggy. IF we put two first round picks on the table that may swing things.

      Next question. Would you rather have Josh Smith or Iggy?

      I ask this because I highly doubt we can get both.

      Comment


      • Re: Josh Smith Availability

        Josh Smith would immediately become our starting PF if he arrived in town tomorrow night.

        But with that said, I'm not in love with his game, either. Not unless I have several people tell me that he's really good at guarding big men on the low block. I've always thought of him as a terrific weak side defender, but nothing special one-on-one in the post. He's not exactly an ideally-sized PF, though he does have really good hops.

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        • Re: Josh Smith Availability

          6'9'' 240 is a pretty excellent sized PF when you factor in his athleticism

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          • Re: Josh Smith Availability

            Originally posted by Hicks View Post
            Josh Smith would immediately become our starting PF if he arrived in town tomorrow night.

            But with that said, I'm not in love with his game, either. Not unless I have several people tell me that he's really good at guarding big men on the low block. I've always thought of him as a terrific weak side defender, but nothing special one-on-one in the post. He's not exactly an ideally-sized PF, though he does have really good hops.
            I think this size issue comes from how big he was coming out of high school. He looked to be SG/SF size. No more. He's grown since then but I don't think perception changes so easily.

            That's my guess. 6'9 and 240 is fine for a PF.

            Comment


            • Re: Josh Smith Availability

              Originally posted by Jrod Jones View Post
              6'9'' 240 is a pretty excellent sized PF when you factor in his athleticism
              I don't know. He looks 6'9" as much as Tyler looks 6'9".

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              • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                He measured 6'7" barefoot, 6'8.25" in shoes. Of course, that was seven years ago and he was 18 years old at the time. Tyler was 6'8.25" barefoot, 6'9.5" in shoes.

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                • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                  Gamble1-

                  Dalembert is an interesting name and one that crossed my mind the
                  other day when thinking through reasonably priced, athletic 'bigs'
                  whom could back up Hibbs at the 5 and play some sparse mins at
                  4 in a pinch and will be available.

                  He's a bit older (at almost 30) than is ideal. But he's about as good
                  a fit as their is in terms of size, skill-set and importantly, his
                  likely price tag.

                  Comment


                  • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                    Originally posted by The Jackson shimmy View Post
                    Gamble1-

                    Dalembert is an interesting name and one that crossed my mind the
                    other day when thinking through reasonably priced, athletic 'bigs'
                    whom could back up Hibbs at the 5 and play some sparse mins at
                    4 in a pinch and will be available.

                    He's a bit older (at almost 30) than is ideal. But he's about as good
                    a fit as their is in terms of size, skill-set and importantly, his
                    likely price tag.
                    I dont think 30 is bad at all considering how this team needs some veteran leadership. IDK if Dalembert is a leader or not. Isnt he the one that used to get made fun of for being a little lazy? I might have him mixed up with someone else but this is more than a few years back.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                      I'm know I've mentioned Dalembert myself before too, but I'm a bit pessimistic since I think someone might overpay him. Overall, far from impressive performance during his current contract. But the last few months, he's been tearing it up.

                      I wonder what salary he will command. At midlevel would be a nice signing. Otherwise I'd rather look elsewhere.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                        Originally posted by Gamble1 View Post
                        Well I knew you would say that....

                        They may want to cut salary but they would want a pretty good package for Iggy. IF we put two first round picks on the table that may swing things.

                        Next question. Would you rather have Josh Smith or Iggy?

                        I ask this because I highly doubt we can get both.
                        Josh Smith. I think he's such a great fit for this team. Out of any realistic option (i.e., not a superstar) he's probably my #1 target.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                          Originally posted by The Jackson shimmy View Post
                          Gamble1-

                          Dalembert is an interesting name and one that crossed my mind the
                          other day when thinking through reasonably priced, athletic 'bigs'
                          whom could back up Hibbs at the 5 and play some sparse mins at
                          4 in a pinch and will be available.
                          Dalembert will be a free agent, but is currently making 12.2M. I don't think he will be a reasonably priced backup at all. I think he will be way to expensive for a backup role and if acquired, would cause cap room dollars to run short in other areas of need.

                          Comment


                          • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                            Originally posted by beast23 View Post
                            Dalembert will be a free agent, but is currently making 12.2M. I don't think he will be a reasonably priced backup at all. I think he will be way to expensive for a backup role and if acquired, would cause cap room dollars to run short in other areas of need.
                            At Dalembert's age I doubt he commands that kind of money this time around.
                            "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                            - ilive4sports

                            Comment


                            • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                              Originally posted by pacergod2 View Post
                              there are so many reasons why we should look at Josh Smith, that it is incredulous so many would not want him here. We would get more out of Josh Smith than the Hawks get from him, just based on the rotation make-up for both teams. I would not want to give up Granger or Hibbert for him though. He compliments both players so well that it is the reason behind wanting him so much. Hansborough, Rush, George, and Collison are all very likeable, good players. I would give any of them up for Smith, because you can't bring in better players without giving something of value up.

                              Sorry so long.
                              The bolded part is a very good point, particularly when talking about Hibbert. The appeal of going after Josh Smith is as much about "fit" as it is talent. Giving up Hibbert in the deal would negate a lot of the positive impact, because a lot of the appeal is about how well Josh Smith fits with Hibbert in your potential front court.

                              If you can get a player who is both a great "fit" and a big talent upgrade, you do it... no questions asked. However, I don't think Hansbrough and a first are enough to get the job done.

                              As stated in the original article, Atlanta is looking to shed cap space and hopefully fill multiple positions by trading Smith. Their weak positions are center... and point guard. Kirk Hinrich is their current starter and their backup Jeff Teauge has been a bit of a draft disappointment.

                              I think offering a deal of Collison and Hansbrough, with the added incentive of being able to absorb Josh Smith's contract for immediate cap relief, would be a fairly reasonable offer for Smith. This fills a position of need for Atlanta (PG), without sacrificing front court depth (Hansbrough), and giving them the cap flexibility to pursue a center in the off season, thusly allowing them to move Horford to PF as they have long desired.

                              This leaves the Pacers with a hole at PG, but with your first round pick still in hand, swinging a deal for a player like Raymond Felton becomes a reasonable possibility. You still have the capability to absorb contracts and provide immediate cap relief to another team. For Denver, who's PG of the future is clearly Ty Lawson, getting out of Felton's contract and simultaneously gaining a mid first round pick would be very appealing... a mid first round pick that could be used to acquire a new back up PG.

                              Felton, while a slight offensive downgrade from Collison, is a defensive upgrade, a better passing PG, and a better leader with more veteran experience... resulting in an overall upgrade of the position.

                              The current "arm chair GM" scenario I have laid out, would leave the Pacers with a starting lineup looking something like this...

                              Raymond Felton
                              Paul George
                              Danny Granger
                              Josh Smith
                              Roy Hibbert

                              That is an off season I would be pretty happy with.
                              "As a bearded man, i was very disappointed in Love. I am gathering other bearded men to discuss the status of Kevin Love's beard. I am motioning that it must be shaved."

                              - ilive4sports

                              Comment


                              • Re: Josh Smith Availability

                                Originally posted by The Jackson shimmy View Post
                                Gamble1-

                                Dalembert is an interesting name and one that crossed my mind the
                                other day when thinking through reasonably priced, athletic 'bigs'
                                whom could back up Hibbs at the 5 and play some sparse mins at
                                4 in a pinch and will be available.

                                He's a bit older (at almost 30) than is ideal. But he's about as good
                                a fit as their is in terms of size, skill-set and importantly, his
                                likely price tag.
                                Dalembert should be a piece we could add if we are willing to spend 6 to 7 million for a backup Center and for anyone who quotes his previous salary it was obvious that he was overpaid by the Sixers and he won't even sniff that type of contract again.

                                Dalembert would be an upgrade over Jeff Foster and he has the potential to be a starting Center if Hibbert is traded for Josh Smith. I wouldn't prefer that trade but he would be a good fit if we traded for Al Jefferson too. People think he is just a backup center now but his per 36 stats are the same as when he was with the sixers in 06-07. If we wanted to play old school tough nose ball then I wouldn't mind him on our team with a possible coach like Mike Brown who would utilize his strengths on defense.

                                Edit: I should also mention that a Tyler Dalembert combo would be pretty good as well.
                                Last edited by Gamble1; 04-05-2011, 09:59 AM.

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