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Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

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  • #16
    Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

    He should alternate backing up the 4 and 5 along with Jeff.

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    • #17
      Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

      Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
      With that said though McRoberts should still be starting, and playing 20 to 30 minutes, with Tyler coming off the bench playing the rest of the minutes at the PF position. This team was at its best when McRoberts was playing 20 to 30 minutes and Hansbrough was playing 15 to 20 minutes.

      If Hansbrough is given consistent starter's minutes, your opinion will soon change. Watch as his constant hustle forces his teammates to give 110% too. Watch as he consistently draws fouls and gets to the free throw line (something Mcroberts and Posey were not doing.) Watch as he gets his team into the bonus early in each quarter he starts. Watch how many and-ones he is able to convert. Watch how rarely that POWER forward spends his time out beyond the arc shooting 3's.

      No team will EVER be better with Josh McRoberts getting more minutes than Tyler Hansbrough.

      Do you really think you would have been that close to beating the Spurs, the team with the best record in the league, if McRoberts had been your starting PF?
      <---- Hansbrough smiling in the training room after Gerald Henderson's cheap shot. UNC won the game, Tyler was happy so he took this picture. Roy Williams keeps it on his desk.

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      • #18
        Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

        Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
        IDK. I think Tyler showed something tonight that I don't think McRoberts has in him.

        Yeah we figured that out back in '05-'06. Someone forgot to pass that memo on to Jim O'Brien.


        The reason Hansbrough is so physical... he is a warrior.

        The reason McRoberts is so finesse... well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NElaIEymBb4
        <---- Hansbrough smiling in the training room after Gerald Henderson's cheap shot. UNC won the game, Tyler was happy so he took this picture. Roy Williams keeps it on his desk.

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        • #19
          Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

          Originally posted by spazzxb View Post
          http://twitter.com/MikeWellsNBA

          Quote:
          . . . Stephenson and A.J. Price will alternate being on the inactive list.
          good to see this. maybe lance will get some random playing time at the end of a blowout or foul trouble or something. i would like to see him play against the varsity.

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          • #20
            Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

            Originally posted by Shabazz View Post
            Yeah we figured that out back in '05-'06. Someone forgot to pass that memo on to Jim O'Brien.


            The reason Hansbrough is so physical... he is a warrior.

            The reason McRoberts is so finesse... well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NElaIEymBb4
            Some of the comments on that YouTube video are hilarious.

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            • #21
              Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

              Once again, this is the pros and they are men now compared to college. That **** doesn't matter anymore and they are on the same team. They both do good things and Josh's role is not that of a scorer.

              Tyler is a better scorer than Josh while Josh has much better court awareness, athleticism, and basketball IQ. I don't get where this "Josh is a pansy" stuff comes from anymore. His game on defense is definitely that of a banger and he's everything but a pretty boy.
              Last edited by hoops_guy; 01-08-2011, 12:56 AM.
              We need better than solid. No JJ Redicks, Andray Blatche, Mike Dunleavy type guys to have big roles on our team.

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              • #22
                Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                I think I'm leaning toward Tyler simply being the better basketball player. I have a feeling that if we see more of him, it will become more apparent.

                What does Josh do clearly better? Josh passes better (more assists). Arguably he makes his team mates better...which is huge. Josh may also attack the rim with more effectiveness, but Tyler has his moments.

                They are close to equal at blocking or altering shots IMO...which I didn't think would be true.

                I have no stats to back me up necessarily, but I think Hans does many more things better.

                1) Shooting
                2) Rebounding
                3) Boxing out
                4) Setting picks
                5) Drawing fouls
                6) Steals

                I'd probably start Hans and get him more integrated into the flow of the offense. If he does that, he's hands down the better player IMHO.
                Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

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                • #23
                  Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                  Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                  I think I'm leaning toward Tyler simply being the better basketball player. I have a feeling that if we see more of him, it will become more apparent.

                  What does Josh do clearly better? Josh passes better (more assists). Arguably he makes his team mates better...which is huge. Josh may also attack the rim with more effectiveness, but Tyler has his moments.

                  They are close to equal at blocking or altering shots IMO...which I didn't think would be true.

                  I have no stats to back me up necessarily, but I think Hans does many more things better.

                  1) Shooting
                  2) Rebounding
                  3) Boxing out
                  4) Setting picks
                  5) Drawing fouls
                  6) Steals

                  I'd probably start Hans and get him more integrated into the flow of the offense. If he does that, he's hands down the better player IMHO.
                  josh does a lot of things ok, but tyler rebound so much better. seems to be a better on ball defender also. plus tyler's able to take 19 shots in a game. that's hard to do at the NBA level.

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                  • #24
                    Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                    Originally posted by Shabazz View Post
                    If Hansbrough is given consistent starter's minutes, your opinion will soon change. Watch as his constant hustle forces his teammates to give 110% too. Watch as he consistently draws fouls and gets to the free throw line (something Mcroberts and Posey were not doing.) Watch as he gets his team into the bonus early in each quarter he starts. Watch how many and-ones he is able to convert. Watch how rarely that POWER forward spends his time out beyond the arc shooting 3's.

                    No team will EVER be better with Josh McRoberts getting more minutes than Tyler Hansbrough.

                    Do you really think you would have been that close to beating the Spurs, the team with the best record in the league, if McRoberts had been your starting PF?
                    If you can get past your fanboyism and take a step back from the game earlier you might understand why I have my opinion. Hansbrough has struggled more than he has played well since being a Pacer, and one game isn't the end all be all. Yes Tyler has a better ability to score than McRoberts does, no one will argue that. At the same time though you have to realize that typically Hansbrough doesn't score within the flow of the offense. While McRoberts doesn't score as much he does make the offense flow a lot better, which helps everyone on the court. So there is a pro and con to both of them playing on the offensive side.

                    Considering there are more scorers in the ranks of the starters, and the majority of them score best from the wing and within the flow of an offense it is best to start McRoberts in order to help those scorers get in rythm and score. At the same time since other than Hibbert Hansbrough is the only low post threat. The team needs someone that is capable of coming in and replacing him.


                    As far as where McRoberts is playing on the court, that kind of stuff is typically more about what the coach wants the player to do. McRoberts has shown that he is going to do what the coach wants. If the coach wants him to spend time around the 3 he will go out there, and it is pretty obvious that is what JOB wants him to do.


                    Like the other guy said, college means **** at this level. If it did Duke players would dominate this league like they typically do college, when the truth is Duke players typically are average NBA players.

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                    • #25
                      Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                      I would like him to only get spot minutes maybe when Jeff can't go or Tyler or Roy get into foul problems
                      Why is that if he is statistically identical to Tyler and statistically superior to Posey and Foster?

                      You're look for worse 3pt shooting, worse rebounding, worse inside shooting, less vertical defense, slower transitions either way, worse outlets, weaker screens and picks away from the ball...

                      Its quite a long list of great reasons, I'll admit.


                      Talk about trying to cover your butt. You can't own up to the "Josh isn't an NBA player" thing and he's had big impact games much like Tyler's tonight. Plenty of blah games too, but you better believe Tyler has plenty of blah nights ahead of him as well.

                      Up till now they've had good results when they've been used as the true PF tandem, usually one of them is on his game for sure and they switch up the type of PF game coming at the other team.


                      I mean I wouldn't bench Roy either, but between he and Josh it's Roy that's been struggling more. Personally I'd play Roy, Josh, and Tyler as the core rotation and just hold my nose on their stinkfest nights on my way to turning them into a really solid future core.



                      At the same time though you have to realize that typically Hansbrough doesn't score within the flow of the offense. While McRoberts doesn't score as much he does make the offense flow a lot better, which helps everyone on the court. So there is a pro and con to both of them playing on the offensive side.
                      Totally agree, and by agreeing I'm obviously admitting that I misread how much Tyler would be able to translate his game to the NBA. My issue with him as a prospect was SPECIFICALLY that unlike most big NCAA scorer/rebounder types, he got a much bigger chunk of those points from the FT line than any other 20+ PPG types.

                      My suggestion was that he wouldn't get those fouls called in the NBA which would mean a lack of points and ability to impact games. He didn't have a scorer's game, the array of moves and shots that he could turn to night after night. He just hustled his way into 8-10 FTAs for 7-8 of his points and nearly halfway to his average.

                      Fanboys envisioned this monster power guy throwing down dunks and killing people with a low post/inside game. This was a main issue discussed after his tryout and Bird talking up his vert game. I disputed that.

                      I think I stand justified in that sense, that Tyler's game isn't about power inside and is more about drawing a truckload of FTs. He also has the mid jumper going, but on the season this year and last he doesn't shoot it very well. His FG% remains low for a power inside guy where most people supplement 43-47% shooting with several dunks or tipbacks that result in carrying a 50-55%.

                      But he sure put it in my face on drawing fouls. I'm long past admitting that I was wrong about him not being able to do that. His aggression and motor get him boards, get him FTAs and sometimes prove nicely disruptive to the other team. On nights where he can knock down 2-4 of those jumpers he's very likely to get you 16-18 points overall.



                      BTW I also happily admit he outplayed Blair tonight.
                      Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-08-2011, 01:42 AM.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                        Foster is a far better defensive player than Josh and I like him backing up Roy.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                          From the Tyler thread I posted their per36.

                          Josh is outshooting Tyler overeall, and moreso when you consider his 3PMs too (or was before tonight, I'll have to see the added impact)

                          Josh and Tyler are neck and neck in rebounding per 36, both around 9.1-9.2. Posey runs around 6.0 for comparison.

                          Josh blocks more shots, period. This isn't as close.

                          Josh leads in steals as well.

                          Tyler crushes in FTAs and leads the team too.


                          And then it has to just lean on opinion when it comes to picks and screens, but I strongly suggest that if you want to see Dunleavy open for a jumper just put Josh on the same side of the court with Dun while the ball works on the other side. Next thing Dun's defender knows he's looking at a chest full of Josh while Dun catches the pass for the wide open shot.

                          Tyler's picks are too clean to be really disruptive. He's turning to get clear of the contact in order to be ready to take the jumper. He doesn't really PnR all that well IMO, not that I've seen so far. It's all about the PnPop for him. If he's hitting the shot then that's great, but I don't think he frees the ball up as well as Josh who tends to work to maintain contact longer.


                          Like Eleazar said - different games for different situations. Neither guy warrants a DNP and neither has all year.

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                          • #28
                            Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                            Originally posted by Eleazar View Post
                            If you can get past your fanboyism...
                            That's kinda becoming a popular insulting word with you, isn't it?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                              Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                              Josh should be Tyler's backup.

                              Jeff is fine as Roy's backup.
                              Assuming Tyler can stay relatively consistent (and that goes for more than a few games, I'm talking 10+ games), I agree with this.

                              I'd even say use Jeff and Josh at the backup 5, even when Josh is playing backup 4. He should play often.

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                              • #30
                                Re: Where does Mcroberts fit in, if tyler starts?

                                Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                                From the Tyler thread I posted their per36....

                                Tyler crushes in FTAs and leads the team too.

                                And then it has to just lean on opinion when it comes to picks and screens, but I strongly suggest that if you want to see Dunleavy open for a jumper just put Josh on the same side of the court with Dun while the ball works on the other side. Next thing Dun's defender knows he's looking at a chest full of Josh while Dun catches the pass for the wide open shot.

                                Tyler's picks are too clean to be really disruptive. He's turning to get clear of the contact in order to be ready to take the jumper. He doesn't really PnR all that well IMO, not that I've seen so far. It's all about the PnPop for him. If he's hitting the shot then that's great, but I don't think he frees the ball up as well as Josh who tends to work to maintain contact longer.
                                There is a lot of truth in what you say.

                                Other stats that I like are adjusted FG% and points per shot. Josh kills Tyler in AFG% 53% to 43%, but Tyler has an advantage in PPS 1.267 to 1.216. An overall consideration of these two stats would probably result in an edge for Josh as well.

                                You raise very good points regarding Josh's role in weakside screening.

                                My belief on Josh is that he does not have significant upside offensively. I think Josh "is what he is" if you can pardon the expression. He can become a little more efficient, but I think that's about all he's going to gain. But, that's probably okay considering his role as a facilitator.

                                Josh is a better shot blocker and certainly can be an above the rim player, but I believe that Tyler is a better interior position player and "banger". It is very obvious that Tyler's physical play does get him to the line much better than Josh, or better than any other Pacer for that matter. I believe this is a talent that we cannot overlook. If you are able to get a couple of fouls on one or both of the opponent's big men in Q1, you are usually playing at an advantage, at least through the end of the quarter or possibly throughout the first half.

                                I think Josh has had his chance. It's not that he's done a poor job with it, but because of Hibbert's decline, JOB is looking for more offensive production from his frontcourt. I would like to see Tyler get the nod as the starter for the next few games. I would also like to see if Tyler gets better in sync with the wing players to determine whether his PnR and PnP games will get more refined.

                                In all honesty, I don't believe either player is going to be our long-term starting PF. More than likely, they are both stop gaps until we find that player. But, if I had to say which one is more likely to become a true starting PF, I would have to go with Tyler, even though he would have to absorb part of Josh's fundamental traits to become that player.

                                This is a definite reversal for me because I have been so certain that Hansbrough had a one way ticket out of here and that the Pacers might even consider rewarding Josh with a modest contract this summer.

                                After seeing Tyler play, I have to admit that I have really missed a player for the Pacers with such physical play and interior fortitude. If we could combine the two players games into one player, we would end up with a pretty decent player who still did not fully have the PnR skills that Collison needs at PF and we would still need a better defensive presence to pair with Hibbert.

                                It is important to fully evaluate all of our young players. That is why I would like to see Tyler get his opportunity with the starters. The Pacers need to know if they just need a starting PF for next season. Or, do they need both a starter and a decent backup?
                                Last edited by beast23; 01-08-2011, 03:11 AM.

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