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Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

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  • Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

    If you were to step beyond this season and look at the likely core of Players that will remain on the roster and try to envision that future core as a Playoff Caliber Team that is built to get beyond the 1st round of the Playoffs ( a mindset that I think we should be taking after this season IF we return to the Playoffs this season ), what role do you think that each Player would best fit?

    We know who will be our future Starting PG, SF and Center:

    PG - Collison
    SF - Granger
    C - Hibbert


    However, looking at the remaining core of Players that will likely be on the roster ( assuming that we resign McBob and let the Expiring Contracts go ):

    AJ / BRush / PG / Posey / Hans / McBob / Inferno / Lance


    I think that we have a very solid depth at all positions......but not any real Starters to fill the 2 remaining spots at the Starting SG and PF spots.

    AJ - AJ's best suited to be DCs backup at the PG spot. A no-brainer here.

    BRush - IMHO, BRush maybe a Starter on a "Bad" to "Playoff Bubble" Team ( basically where we are now )....but on a Playoff Caliber Team....I think that BRush is best suited to be the 1st GF off the bench. To me, on a Playoff Caliber Team....he's not Starting material but a much better option as the 6th Man in our rotation on a really good Team.

    Posey - As a smart Veteran GF that can provide some good leadership on the floor ( that won't likely be going anywhere due to the $$ owed to him in the 2011-2012 season ), I think that he'd best fill whatever remaining GF minutes are left behind BRush and next to PG in the GF rotation.

    PG - For now; I only see PG playing behind Granger, whatever Starting SG that I think we should get ( assuming that BRush isn't that guy....which I do not ) and BRush in the GF rotation while fighting for whatever leftover minutes that are left for Posey and PG. I'd anticipate AT WORST that next season, PG will be playing next to Posey in the GF rotation ( meaning either of them...but not both....should get 10-15 and AT BEST playing ahead of Posey and next to BRush in the GF rotation. I really hope that he does blossom as a Starter under a new Coach or role...but I think that it will be later rather then sooner ( I hope he proves me wrong in this aspect ).

    McBob - On a "Playoff Bubble Team", McBob is a Starter...on a Playoff Caliber Team...he has obvious flaws that will limit his effectiveness. Assuming that we are able to resign him ( which I hope we do ) and seeing how well he has played so far....I really think that he should be the 1st Big Man off the bench to fill the role that Foster should have filled when we were actually a good Team. Offensively, he's still a liability...when he's not doing some Alley-Oop or dunking on someone....but on a Playoff Caliber Team...I think that he'd fill the roll as a 1st Big Man off the bench more then adequately and can ( if injury occurs ) step in to be a good "stop-gap" Starter at the PF or Center spot. To me, McBob has an edge over Hansbrough as the 1st Big Man off the bench.

    Hansbrough - Just like BRush, I think that he'd be much better suited to be a rotational Big rather then a Starter. There are some flaws to his game ( as Seth continually likes to point out ), but he's clearly ( at worst ) good enough to be a rotational Player that should get a minimal # of consistent Minutes in the rotation. The question is how well he progresses and how well he does in the next season. For now, I look at Hansbrough ( at best ) next to McBob as the 1st Big Man off the bench but more then likely play behind McBob in the Big Man PF/C rotation.

    Inferno / Lance - For now, both of them are inconsequential and in suits.

    The reason I bring this is up is because when I started look at the future core how well our Team would fit the mold of being a "Playoff Team and beyond" Team....it gave me an idea about what positions of need we'd have to target to get this Team to the next level.

    Thoughts anyone?

    What role and position do you think our future likely core of Players will fill IF we wanted to start making a major push for the Playoffs and to try to get past the 1st round?


    Right now, McBob and BRush are our Starters...but I feel that if we are to get over the next "hump", they are much better suited to be 6th/7th rotational Players as the "1st GF" or "1st Big Man" off the bench. To me, if we get a taste of the Playoffs...unless PG, Lance and Hansbrough take significant steps forward and they "finally get it"...I think that Bird and Company will be looking more to in "Win now" while looking less on the Younger Players to "get it". This would likely translate into looking to sign either a Starting quality PF and/or a Starting quality SG to fill out the roster. This ( of course ) dove-tails into the whole "Make a run for Iggy or not" thread.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

  • #2
    Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

    Thank you. I agree with everything you said 100%

    In my opinion we also need a tall, rebounding, and shotblocking third big. Josh can do that, but he may be our starter next year. So we need a tall third big who brings energy and who can dunk in traffic.

    Rush is perfect as our 3rd wing so we need an upgrade as our starting wing. Same w/ George as our backup small forward. We can have a beastly rotation of defenders there. James Posey plays spot minutes some games.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

      I think it should be mentioned that Solo is playing super solid of late. He's filling that role playing 3rd big spot pretty nicely.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

        Originally posted by QuickRelease View Post
        I think it should be mentioned that Solo is playing super solid of late. He's filling that role playing 3rd big spot pretty nicely.
        I agree. However, we still need someone that has a consistent positive impact in games off the bench like Tony or Foster in the past for us.

        Don't get me wrong though. Solo has been playing great for his standards. But we can still get a player who is more dynamic and who can be trusted in posting up, getting offensive rebounds, and blocking shots.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

          Quality starters currently on team:

          PG - Collison
          SF - Granger
          C - Hibbert

          Subs:

          PF - McRoberts, Hansbough, Posey (minimal minutes; next season only)
          PG - Price
          SG - Rush, DJones (next season only)
          SF - Rush, Posey (next season only), George
          C - NONE

          By no means to we have solid/quality depth... at least not for a team capable of making a deep run into the playoffs. I don't think we should mistake the fact that we have better depth at this time than we have had for the last 3-4 years for quality depth that better performing playoff teams have and need.

          Price - Questionable backup. This is a drop a deuce or get off the pot season for AJ. He must evolve into a solid backup. We will not have Ford next season and it must be determined whether AJ can adequately provide quality backup minutes that will be required. Otherwise, we will be looking looking for a backup PG next summer, with AJ either gone or relegated to 3rd string.

          BRush - Solid backup. I think Rush would make an excellent backup SG for probably any team in the league. Therefore, we should count ourselves lucky to haver Rush available to come off the bench in the coming seasons. He can also handle backup SF minutes depending on the match up and what is needed. But even with a top-notch SG starting in front of him, we should still expect to use him at least 25 minutes per game.

          Posey - Veteran/knowledgeable backup. I believe Posey will be used next year much like he is being used this season. As a player that contirbutes to defense and as a spot shooter. He will see minutes at SF and also at PF, depending on the match up. I think this will be true regardless of a possibe coaching change for next season.

          George - Unknown backup ability. At this time, it cannot be predicted whether George will see any court time at all. This year and what he can accomplish in training next summer will dictate how George will be used next season. He somehow needs to find the light switch. Otherwise, Posey will see the majority of backup minutes next season rather than George. So based on what I've seen so far, I think AT BEST, George will get 15 minutes a game and be ahead of Posey in the depth chart. AT WORST, next season will be a repeat of what we have seen so far of him this season.

          McRoberts - Energetic backup. Every team needs a player like McRoberts in its front court off the bench. Goes after every loose ball; seems to have a knack for keeping rebounds alive. A decent physical presence.

          Hansbrough - Similar to McRoberts in what he brings, except that he has an offensive game. Does not have good enough defensive skills to meet our needs at PF, but is a decent big off the bench.

          I could see the Pacers attempting to re-sign Dunleavy for a lot less money than he is making now if his contract cannot be used in a sign-and-trade to acquire another player. Even with better starters, he can make a great contribution at both wing positions.

          So, we still have a lot of needs to evolve into a very good playoff team.

          PF - Need a quality starter.
          SG - Need a quality starter.
          C - Need a quality backup.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

            I have to agree with much of what has been said already.

            Many of the current Pacers can be a part of a championship team. They have the makings of a strong bench. I think the Pacers need a couple of things in their starting lineup.

            - A 20 PPG scorer, either SG or PF
            - Elite defensive PF

            The Pacers do not have a Dwight Howard of Kobe Bryant. They cannot follow the mode the Magic and Lakers have used to build championship caliber teams. They must follow the Celtic's mode. To do that they need to be a top 3 defensive team and they need another 20 PPG scorer.

            Danny and Roy are 20 PPG scorers. If Roy isn't he is very close and I don't think anyone would argue he can be a top 3 scorer on a championship team.

            It is likely the scoring will have to come from the SG spot. All around PFs are very difficult to get. I think that Paul George could develop into that guy. Some say he can't play SG but what he really lacks are ballhandling skills and he can develop that.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

              Originally posted by QuickRelease View Post
              I think it should be mentioned that Solo is playing super solid of late. He's filling that role playing 3rd big spot pretty nicely.
              Where are all the posters who were saying JOB was an idiot for playing Solo??? Wait...what was that you said???

              JOB might have seen some potential in Solo and thought with some minutes he might figure it out....NOOOO not an established NBA coach...guy is just clueless! We all know that.
              *removed* Just keep politics and religion completely out of it, please.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                Originally posted by BringJackBack View Post
                Thank you. I agree with everything you said 100%

                In my opinion we also need a tall, rebounding, and shotblocking third big. Josh can do that, but he may be our starter next year. So we need a tall third big who brings energy and who can dunk in traffic.

                Rush is perfect as our 3rd wing so we need an upgrade as our starting wing. Same w/ George as our backup small forward. We can have a beastly rotation of defenders there. James Posey plays spot minutes some games.
                This is what I'm trying to gauge from all of you.....do we have all of our necessary Starters NOW to make a real run at returning to our prominence years ago where we were considered a perennial "2nd round Playoff or beyond" Playoff Team starting in the next 2 years?

                My impresson is that we don't. BRush and McBob are the perfect examples of Players that are Starters on a Bad or "Playoff Bubble" Team ( exactly what they are now ). However, on a really good "Playoff or Beyond" Team....they wouldn't be Starters but Backup Players at their respective positions.

                The best way that I can put it is to imagine a 2nd unit that comprised AJ/BRush/Posey(or PG)/Hans/McBob. To me....that is solid Depth that is needed to get us to the next level.

                My thought is that if you look at it that way.....then 2 primary objectives that I think that Bird should really look at in the offseason is to get a Starting PF ( duh ) AND a high quality Starting SG....where one ( but not both ) could be top-tier Players at their respective positions.

                We certainly have the $$$ to go after them in the offseason and I think that Bird is ready to make a huge move to get us to the next level as opposed to slowly wait for PG and Lance to develop.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                  Originally posted by QuickRelease View Post
                  I think it should be mentioned that Solo is playing super solid of late. He's filling that role playing 3rd big spot pretty nicely.
                  I still would put McBob ahead of Solo in the rotation. I know that he's been doing much better as of late....but if I were to look at what he does and where he would fit on a "Playoff or beyond" Team....then IMHO, he'd be considered the 5th Big Man at the end of the bench.....specifically a Big Man that would only get time if Hibbert, our Starting PF, McBob and Hansbrough gets injured. At best....next season....if Solo were on the roster and we were to get a Starting PF....my Big Man PF/C rotation consists of (1) Hibbert, (2) whatever Starting PF that we get, (3) McBob and Hansbrough and Solo fighting for the leftover minutes. Given my preference to develop Hansbrough...I'd easily prefer to put Hansbrough ahead of Solo or whoever we sign as a Big Man to warm the bench.

                  Where we are right now.....Solo gets minutes because we do not have a true Starting PF ( despite McBob doing his best impression of one ). Looking at Teams that are built to not only make it to the Playoffs but compete in the Playoffs that could make it to the 2nd round and beyond ( such as the Spurs or the Jazz ) and a Player like Solo would be warming the bench as a Cheerleader.

                  Again....don't look at where the Team is now ( a "Playoff Bubble" or "A Likely 1st round Playoff Exit" Team ), looking at the Team this way and I think that Players like Solo are regular rotational Players and McBob and BRush are Starters. Over the last 3 seasons...we were at the "Let's just make it to the Playoffs" level....to me, given our performance as of late...I feel that we will likely get there by this season.

                  I wanted to take a look at what we'd need to do to get to that "Next Level"...specifically what it would take to get us back to where we were before as a perennial Playoff bound Team that can make it to the 2nd round..if not the ECF.
                  Last edited by CableKC; 12-02-2010, 03:03 PM.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                    These aren't established veterans with known quantities (and ceilings).
                    BRush and McBob are YOUNG players that might be a whole lot better in another year. Brandon is showing assertiveness and maturity and McBob is playing for the first time.
                    Both can be a lot better in the future, as can Tyler and AJ.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                      Originally posted by BringJackBack View Post
                      I agree. However, we still need someone that has a consistent positive impact in games off the bench like Tony or Foster in the past for us.

                      Don't get me wrong though. Solo has been playing great for his standards. But we can still get a player who is more dynamic and who can be trusted in posting up, getting offensive rebounds, and blocking shots.
                      To me, I think that McBob would do a good job of filling the hole that Foster will likely vacate in our PF/C rotation. He's a high-energy guy that can rebound, block shots, provide solid defense, athleticsm, act as a disruptor on the defensive end, and provide some solid Big-Man passing for 20 minutes a game.
                      Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                        Originally posted by CableKC View Post
                        I still would put McBob ahead of Solo in the rotation. I know that he's been doing much better as of late....but if I were to look at what he does and where he would fit on a "Playoff or beyond" Team....then IMHO, he'd be considered the 5th Big Man at the end of the bench.....specifically a Big Man that would only get time if Hibbert, our Starting PF, McBob and Hansbrough gets injured. At best....next season....if Solo were on the roster and we were to get a Starting PF....my Big Man PF/C rotation consists of (1) Hibbert, (2) whatever Starting PF that we get, (3) McBob and Hansbrough and Solo fighting for the leftover minutes. Given my preference to develop Hansbrough...I'd easily prefer to put Hansbrough ahead of Solo or whoever we sign as a Big Man to warm the bench.

                        Where we are right now.....Solo gets minutes because we do not have a true Starting PF ( despite McBob doing his best impression of one ). Looking at Teams that are built to not only make it to the Playoffs but compete in the Playoffs that could make it to the 2nd round and beyond ( such as the Spurs or the Jazz ) and a Player like Solo would be warming the bench as a Cheerleader.

                        Again....don't look at where the Team is now ( a "Playoff Bubble" or "A Likely 1st round Playoff Exit" Team ), looking at the Team this way and I think that Players like Solo are regular rotational Players and McBob and BRush are Starters. Over the last 3 seasons...we were at the "Let's just make it to the Playoffs" level....to me, given our performance as of late...I feel that we will likely get there by this season.

                        I wanted to take a look at what we'd need to do to get to that "Next Level"...specifically what it would take to get us back to where we were before as a perennial Playoff bound Team that can make it to the 2nd round..if not the ECF.
                        Solo blocked or altered 3 shots in about 2 minutes last game. He is starting to become a factor and looking MUCH more confident out there.
                        He seems to be much more of a "center like" guy than McBob and Tyler.

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                        • #13
                          Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                          Originally posted by MLB007 View Post
                          These aren't established veterans with known quantities (and ceilings).
                          BRush and McBob are YOUNG players that might be a whole lot better in another year. Brandon is showing assertiveness and maturity and McBob is playing for the first time.
                          Both can be a lot better in the future, as can Tyler and AJ.
                          I do not doubt that they will improve.....but I do not see any of them as the type of high-quality Starters that we will need if we are to compete with the 2nd-tier Playoff Teams.

                          I'm not trying to be-little what they are doing now or what they can do.....but using the ceiling of Granger and Hibbert as models.....I just don't see either McBob or BRush as having as high of a ceiling for them as many of you do.

                          This doesn't mean that they can't contribute...I just see them as better contributors with a more focused role as a Backup ( playing 24-28 mpg ) as opposed to a Starter.
                          Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                            Am I the only one who think back up PG is a position of need as well? I mean AJ is good and all but he isn't much bigger than DC. This past week has shown that we need some size at the PG spot. I don't think Lance is the answer.
                            You can't get champagne from a garden hose.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Looking beyond this season and the future Core?

                              Originally posted by MLB007 View Post
                              Solo blocked or altered 3 shots in about 2 minutes last game. He is starting to become a factor and looking MUCH more confident out there.
                              He seems to be much more of a "center like" guy than McBob and Tyler.
                              Based off of what we know....if McBob or Solo were on a Team like the Spurs or Jazz....which one would likely get regular rotational minutes?

                              With admitted preference for McBob...my best guess is that Solo wouldn't crack the rotation and get regular minutes on a 2nd Tier Team on a regular basis.

                              I'll default to my initial answer....I think that McBob is clearly ahead of Solo as a rotational Big Man Player. At best....if it comes to Solo and Hansbrough as to who will get the minutes next.....I can see arguments that either is better then the other given the situation. But at this point...we're talking about a 4th/5th Big Man in the rotation. If given the choice...I'd rather have Hansbrough be the 4th Big Man..which would leave whoever is left as the 5th Big Man getting garbage minutes.
                              Last edited by CableKC; 12-02-2010, 03:26 PM.
                              Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

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