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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

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Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

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  • #61
    Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

    Yeah, I really think Paul could be an all star in a couple years. He is like Ron Artest lite. A smaller version. He isn't going to overpower anyone like Ron, but he has an amazing knack for deflections and passing lanes. And his offensive game is so smooth. The future is bright with that kid. I like him like 500x more than Lance.

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    • #62
      Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

      Originally posted by xBulletproof View Post
      Which is why +/- is a horrible way to judge a player. He was on the floor most of the time with Posey/Solo. Of course his +/- wasn't spectacular.
      Look at tonight's game... especially the first half. TJ Ford absolutely killed the team/ offense in the second quarter with his inept offense and lazy defense. The Sixers went on a huge run. When DC was in, we were in control and Hibbert was a monster.

      End result was that Ford only had a -3. But if you watched the game, and the difference in the quality of play with DC and with TJ, you would have expected this particular statistic to be much more dramatic (if at actually worked as advertised. Although, most of us on PD realize it doesn't actually work as advertised...)

      As for the main point of this thread, I like watching Mike play... especially away from the ball. He's a smart player. I'll buy Anthem's point that he's not a great fit with the starters. That's Rush's fault. And tonight, he gave what you'd want from your sixth man at home. And so did Tyler. And that's a big part of why this was never close down the stretch (even if the Sixers are bad... we didn't play down to their level either.)
      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
      And life itself, rushing over me
      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

        Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
        Look at tonight's game... especially the first half. TJ Ford absolutely killed the team/ offense in the second quarter with his inept offense and lazy defense. The Sixers went on a huge run. When DC was in, we were in control and Hibbert was a monster.

        End result was that Ford only had a -3. But if you watched the game, and the difference in the quality of play with DC and with TJ, you would have expected this particular statistic to be much more dramatic (if at actually worked as advertised. Although, most of us on PD realize it doesn't actually work as advertised...)

        As for the main point of this thread, I like watching Mike play... especially away from the ball. He's a smart player. I'll buy Anthem's point that he's not a great fit with the starters. That's Rush's fault. And tonight, he gave what you'd want from your sixth man at home. And so did Tyler. And that's a big part of why this was never close down the stretch (even if the Sixers are bad... we didn't play down to their level either.)
        noting we didnt already know. i still cant understand why job put him in with 6min left in the game

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        • #64
          Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

          Originally posted by Jon Theodore View Post
          I think the Dunleavy hate on this board is incredible. Sure he is not our best player, but he does a lot of things that help this team. Mainly, he is an excellent passer. I can think of two plays where he made excellent passes that lead to a score (not necessarily an assist, but a great pass within the flow of the offense that lead to a bucket)

          His alley oop pass to McRoberts last night was PERFECT. TJ Ford could of converted that alley oop, the pass was so good .

          Also, his three point shooting is questionable at times but i'd rather him be confident than deal with Brandon Rush being scared to take two steps.

          Dunleavy is also an excellent team defender. Bottom line is he may be the best passer on this team not named Collison. Our offense has looked VERY GOOD the first two games and passing is a big reason for that. When you have Collison, Dunleavy, and Roy on the floor together you have three VERY GOOD passers on the floor. Watch when Dunleavy passes the ball to Granger, he always hits Granger RIGHT where he is ready to shoot, it is a thing of beauty that apparently is missed by most viewers. (Not saying I am some excellent basketball analyst, but I do pay attention to passing)

          I think Dunleavy needs to be coming off the bench playing 15-20 min a game max. I think with the second unit he could probably be more effective as a facilitator/scorer. He is always going to make the right pass and put guys in a good position to score (that is assuming players are moving, screening, cutting, etc.) IT has been said by other posters, but Dunleavy is a player whose stat line rarely tells the whole story, similar to Foster (whose great defense often doesn't show up on a stat line)
          I think he does a few things you enjoy watching and over rate the importance of it. You cite like 3 plays and ignore the other 100+ where he did absolutely nothing. Other players can do what he does well and do other things much better. I've seen Paul George make more nice passes that lead to scores this season than Dunleavy. He has more assists is 12 less MPG.

          I love how people rate his "team" defense as "great" or even "good". It doesn't matter a lick if you can't guard your man. He is not a good defensive player in any sense of the word.

          Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
          Ok man, after watching most of the replay I have to say you are totally wrong. I hope you got to watch it too.

          Mike played great this game. His defense was really good. There were a few times I saw where he made a great defensive play and then ended up looking bad because his teammates didn't rotate properly, but are we going to blame him for not taking a blocking foul? He isn't exactly Dale Davis the enforcer out there, ready to punish the opposition.
          When you get beat you blame your team mates for not bailing you out and making a perfect rotation? Do you know how hard that is? You don't want your defense to constantly rotate, you don't have a prayer to be good at it then. Dunleavy constantly gets beat off the dribble, he also routinely gets scored over by players 4-5 inches shorter than him. And he is an absolute non factor challenging shots despite being 6'10" and a capable athlete. Through 3 games, at 35 MPG, he has 2 blocks and 0 steals. Paul George has twice that in half the time. He makes a good play here and there but that is only because he constantly swipes at the ball or tries to do some stupid fake out move every single time someone drives at him. Good defenders take away baskets and Dun doesn't do that.

          Originally posted by beast23 View Post
          Well.... I think that the first 3 games are indicative of the conversation that we will have on the board all season long regarding Dunleavy.

          Those that are peeved that he is playing in front of younger players will complain after each game where they believe Dunleavy's performance is subpar. Constant reminders of the previous 2 seasons will often be part of the conversation.

          Those that can appreciate Dunleavy's contributions and accept that like all other players, he will sometimes strive for consistency, will try to temper complaints about Dunleavy by sprinkling in a few positive comments.

          With respect to Dunleavy and the dialog that is certain to be centered around him, all I can say is that this will be a long season.
          It's only peoples opinions on why the team is winning or what needs to be done to win more. I don't understand why people get so butt hurt over stuff like that. It's just an opinion. And if you think about it, it's probably equally annoying for grown folks to constantly whine about it. I am not a fan of Dunleavy, and I never have been. I don't like the way he plays and I don't think he gives an honest consistent effort. I prefer someone who can affect the game at both ends more effectively. And there is nothing wrong with that.

          It's crazy how a guy can shoot the ball like crap and play lack luster defense, and you have a segment of the board who acts like you should be heaving praise all over him. They over rate every little thing he does and act like you're a complete idiot for wanting to give someone else a legit chance to show they can do better? Wow.

          How would you feel if you were the player behind him? Is it fair to them?
          Last edited by Taterhead; 10-31-2010, 02:02 AM.
          "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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          • #65
            Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

            Originally posted by Hicks View Post

            Unfortunately, Mike (and if not him, James Posey) will probably always get minutes at the 3 at Paul's expense.
            I don't think so. Paul is already starting to relax,and the jumper looks pretty sweet.
            Quinn predicted tonight he'll go off for 30pts.
            THIS year.
            He's going to be TOO good to keep on the bench.
            Count on it.
            We got really lucky.
            Again! (Danny)

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

              Originally posted by MLB007 View Post
              I don't think so. Paul is already starting to relax,and the jumper looks pretty sweet.
              Quinn predicted tonight he'll go off for 30pts.
              THIS year.
              He's going to be TOO good to keep on the bench.
              Count on it.
              We got really lucky.
              Again! (Danny)
              I gotta agree. I think Paul has the potential to be better than Danny. Kid certainly is better than Granger was when he was 20. He looks mature beyond his years out there, which is funny, cause I thought in the summer league and in pre season he looked lost most of the time. But he played a good one tonight and I hope he can continue to build on that.
              "Don't get caught watchin' the paint dry"

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              • #67
                Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                I'm with ChicagoJ in the fact that Dunleavy was pulling Murphy type rebounds, I think he had a decent game, tried to play D and tried to shoot the three but couldn't do it(one three pointer)
                @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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                • #68
                  Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                  Originally posted by Thingfish View Post
                  Ok man, after watching most of the replay I have to say you are totally wrong. I hope you got to watch it too.

                  Mike played great this game. His defense was really good. There were a few times I saw where he made a great defensive play and then ended up looking bad because his teammates didn't rotate properly, but are we going to blame him for not taking a blocking foul? He isn't exactly Dale Davis the enforcer out there, ready to punish the opposition.
                  Your right, Mike played great defense tonight. I was surprised his 3's weren't falling as well as he was playing, but they will come for sure.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                    Mike is the new scapegoat. He played well tonight. He might not have played perfect defense, but it was not horrible. He got beat a few times, but he hustled and got rebounds. He shot was not falling, but he still got 16 points. If Mike is not in there I don't know how we make up those points.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                      He doesn't get to the line, he doesn't shoot the ball well despite shooting a thousand threes, he doesn't play defense, and he blames players for his mistakes on occasion.

                      However, he rebounds well for a shooting guard, he passes well, and moves without the ball.

                      I think he'd be fine if we played him about 15 minutes a game as he is unique, but anything more than that is a stretch. If he is playing well, keep him in the game. If not, give the minutes to George or Rush, players that are just better.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                        Dunleavy plays within the flow of the game. He doesn't disrupt it like Murphy did. His defense was much better than the first game, but so was Grangers. He rebounded well last night and even played around the basket when needed. I think he looked fine out there. Along with Collison, Granger, and Hibbert Dunleavy fits in pretty this early in the season.

                        We are 2-1 people lets enjoy it a bit. JOB played the lineups that most people wanted last night, so we can even give him a break at least until Wednesday.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                          Everyone seems to have this opinion that Dunleavy is a terrible defender. Well...

                          One-on-One, he's not going to stop most players. He's not going to get alot of steals. He's not going to get alot of deflections. He's certainly not going to block many shots, if any. But what he will do is bring strong, weakside help defense. What he does do is react very well to the ball and rotates defensively. He's a "team defense" player, not a 1-on-1 defensives stopper. More often than not, he will make his man change direction or take a challenged shot.

                          Now, does he get lost out there sometimes? You bet! But so does Granger. I saw him miss a few defensive assignments, too. Dunleavy hasn't been beaten too badly by the players he's had to defend so far. I'd say that had his perimeter shots been falling, we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Good offense usually trumps average or even bad defense. I'd say Dunleavy has average defense and could be a potent offensive weapon if his outside shots were falling.

                          Give him time. He is playing some very solid, fundamental basketball. I'd leave him in as a starter and make BRush earn his minutes back. But Dunleavy's gonna have to regain his shooting touch if he wants to stay amongst the starters. It's the only way he'll lose his starting job - if JOB believes he has lost confidence in his shot and his teammates have lost confidence in him. So far, neither seem an issue at the moment.

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                          • #73
                            Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                            No one has established themselves as a better option for being the starter. I won't complain about Dunleavy until someone is overall better than he is. It would be nice if he would hit his wide open shots though... come on Dunleavy.

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                            • #74
                              Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                              Originally posted by BBQ View Post
                              No one has established themselves as a better option for being the starter. I won't complain about Dunleavy until someone is overall better than he is. It would be nice if he would hit his wide open shots though... come on Dunleavy.
                              LIke any player if he isn't preforming well you have to pull him out of the game. Last night he did some things well and he contributed so I have no problem with giving him 30 minutes.

                              I am interested to see how Rush gels with the team. Defensively he is going to be an upgrade but offensively I think he might slow up the ball movement quit a bit.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Does nobody see what Dunleavy does on the floor?

                                If Rush works out with 1st unit, MDJ, TH, PG on your second unit is a nice core to work from. If the opposite and Rush on 2nd unit, you've still got a good core, just tilted a bit more to the defensive side. Plus, I'd assume you'd get lots of mixing and matching.

                                Personally, I like MDJ as sixth/seventh man, but obviously still with good minutes and contributions. I think his offensive pros are amplified and probably his on-ball defensive cons are somewhat minimized.

                                If it becomes evident 1st unit struggles without him, lineups can always be reshuffled. Bottom line, we're going to need something consistently from both guys-BR/MDJ-to be successful this year. Whatever that translates to in lineup terms.
                                I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                                -Emiliano Zapata

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