The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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  • NBA vs. NASCAR

    On the off chance there is someone out there interested in discussing something other than Artest/Peja....

    I suppose a lot of us were listening to 950 AM today (oops - yesterday, I'm posting in the early morning hours) to catch Rakestraw's thoughts on Artest. Did anyone else catch him saying he thinks NASCAR has replaced the NBA as the third most popular sport?

    I don't follow NASCAR at all, but I was taken aback by this. I didn't realize it was even in the game, compared to the Big Three (or even Big Four with the NHL).

    Does anyone out there agree with him, or is he way off base?
    "If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you." - Jack Handy

  • #2
    Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

    I really don't doubt that it isn't true Nascar is very popular , this is what I been doing during my little break for the summer is going to races around the country and I do it every summer.

    It seems when I goto a Pacers game anymore it's all suits and higher class people and not the real fans I remember , I am not saying real fans don't go but it just seems more like a big bussiness party at Pacer games. Now when I goto Nascar Races you see alot more families and don't ask me why , you just do.

    I have been going to the Brickyard ever since it hit IMS and Enjoy it too death , it's a fun filled weekend for me and I always have a wonderful time and have met alot of wonderful people from around the country. If it wasn't for my great love of basketball I would probably buy a RV and attend every race and there are a large amount of folks who do this.

    Nascar is one of those things that you gotta enjoy more to the race than just going in circles , there is alot more too it than just jumping in the car and driving the wheels off til it melts down or you cross the finishline.
    Broadcasting Classic Rock Hits 24/7 SauceMaster Radio!!!!


    • #3
      Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

      The ratings and stuff for NASCAR are huge. I don't get it at all, since I think all racing (other than WRC) is boring as hell, with NASCAR being the worst, but that's just me. I know people who LOVE to just sit and watch a bunch of rednecks drive around in circles.


      • #4
        Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

        If they watched the Birckyard Sunday lots of NASCAR fans might be cured. That may have been the worst race I ever saw - unless you like seeing a car with flashing lights lead the field at 60 miles an hour.

        As to the popularity, NASCAR caters to the "average guy." The NBA doesn't - not really. NASCAR has good Network TV coverage. If you want to really follow the NBA, you better have cable. NASCAR drivers seem like ordinary people. They sit down and sign autographs (are required to), give access to fans, etc. The NBA believes their players are elite and they don't have to be accessible to fans and if they want to smoke dope or do coke they might get penalized after they're caught for the third time.

        I could go on but I think a lot of it has to do with how people relate to the average NASCAR driver as opposed to the average NBA player.
        The poster formerly known as Rimfire


        • #5
          Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

          Originally posted by Zesty
          The ratings and stuff for NASCAR are huge. I don't get it at all, since I think all racing (other than WRC) is boring as hell, with NASCAR being the worst, but that's just me. I know people who LOVE to just sit and watch a bunch of rednecks drive around in circles.
          I thought I was the only person in the US watching WRC!

          I cant stand NASCAR I am bored to death with cars just going arround in circles that are engineered to give a close race. The IRL and NASCAR are both extremely boring to me.

          Now World Rally and Formula One are two forms of racing that I can really enjoy.


          • #6
            Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

            I figured I would see alot of comments about cars going around in Circles , but anyways. If NAscar is so Boring then Please Explain why it's so popular and maybe that's the real question here
            Broadcasting Classic Rock Hits 24/7 SauceMaster Radio!!!!


            • #7
              Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

              I think one of the reasons for Nascars popularity is the fact that it happens during the slow summer months, when there is little to no competition elsewhere in the sports world.

              Racings only real competition is Baseball, Golf, Tennis, and midget wrestling. I think it boils down to needing SOMETHING...ANYTHING, to come up with to pass the summer months and have an excuse to get away from the wife and go drink beer at "Bobs house".

              If Racing was going head to head against football and basketball the last 50 years it would never be as popular as it is today. I know plenty of die-hard racing fans that when the tail end of the racing season overlaps with the beginning of football season, they watch the football games and tape the race.


              • #8
                Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                I have a theory as to NASCAR's surging popularity, as well as the decline in popularity of leagues such as the NBA. It's simple: the more globalized a sport becomes, the less Americans seem to pay attention. Americans identify with athletes from the US (and maybe Canada), but seem to shun anyone from anywhere else. The NFL is arguably the most popular sport in the country; it's almost entirely composed of American players. NASCAR is also nearly completely composed of American drivers, thus its massive popularity. The NBA, NHL, and MLB each have a significant number of international players. The recent (last 15 years) surge in support of NASCAR is a result of the US ethnocentric feeding frenzy. Of course, cable television coverage (NBA) and continual labor disputes (MLB, NHL) also don't help. I simply believe more goes on than meets the eye.
                Take me out to the black, tell 'em I ain't coming back. Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.


                • #9
                  Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                  I have no clue on why NASCAR as a sport is so popular, but I have a reasoning for the high ratings.

                  Well obviously, all the races are on network channels, but it's mostly the fact that it's ONE race a week. All the Jeff Gordan fans, all the Dale Earnhart Jr. fans, all the fans of every single racer have to watch the SAME race every week.

                  The NBA relies on every team being popular, but that simply isn't true.

                  In my opinion, saying that NASCAR is more popular than the NBA is pure crap. Millions of fans daily wear their favorite players' jersey, while it's not that far in NASCAR. And that doesn't even include how popular the NBA is world-wide.
                  "It's just unfortunate that we've been penalized so much this year and nothing has happened to the Pistons, the Palace or the city of Detroit," he said. "It's almost like it's always our fault. The league knows it. They should be ashamed of themselves to let the security be as lax as it is around here."

                  ----------------- Reggie Miller


                  • #10
                    Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                    Originally posted by obnoxiousmodesty
                    I have a theory as to NASCAR's surging popularity, as well as the decline in popularity of leagues such as the NBA. It's simple: the more globalized a sport becomes, the less Americans seem to pay attention. Americans identify with athletes from the US (and maybe Canada), but seem to shun anyone from anywhere else. The NFL is arguably the most popular sport in the country; it's almost entirely composed of American players. NASCAR is also nearly completely composed of American drivers, thus its massive popularity. The NBA, NHL, and MLB each have a significant number of international players. The recent (last 15 years) surge in support of NASCAR is a result of the US ethnocentric feeding frenzy. Of course, cable television coverage (NBA) and continual labor disputes (MLB, NHL) also don't help. I simply believe more goes on than meets the eye.
                    Good Post I can somewhat agree with that , well atleast you didn't mention the words Redneck , Beer Drinking

                    Broadcasting Classic Rock Hits 24/7 SauceMaster Radio!!!!


                    • #11
                      Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                      Have you ever heard the saying that you will never fail by playing to the lowest common denominator?

                      NASCAR is popular for the same reason that Wrestling is popular.

                      In a real sport that has no enforced equalizer there will be people like Michael Shumacher who will dominate. In the IRL and NASCAR they are rigged to take the advantage of the better driver away. Sure you still need to be a good driver to win a lot of races, but random chance will help many drivers who would have never won a race win in NASCAR and the IRL.

                      I think that people enjoy the side by side racing and they just dont realize that the cars were engineered to do that. They should just give up the pretense and call it IROC.


                      • #12
                        Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                        Ac tually... the only thing that surprises me is that we're talking about whether Nascar is the 3rd most popular sport. I'm surprised that the debate isn't whether it is the 2nd most popular sport. As for the NBA vs Nascar. I doubt it is even close... Nascar is more popular IMHO. I'm willing to bet its merchandising in sheer volume outpaces the NBA.

                        And I believe the gap is widening.

                        Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.


                        "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

                        -John Wooden


                        • #13
                          Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                          obnoxiousmodesty, very interesting post.

                          racing around an oval track with banked sides at high speed seems to remove the skill of the driver from the equation as much as is possible. seems almost like an engineering challenge more than a racing challenge.

                          in australia, basketball has to fight against a number of other sports and the tickets to matches aren't what you'd consider cheap in this country to go watch sport. but compared to the NBA, it is positively cheap to go see an NBL game. it definately seems that the NBA is trying to market its superstars more than it is marketing the game itself.


                          • #14
                            Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                            How do we judge which sport is more popular.

                            Total television viewers ? if that is the case then the NBA is way more popular. Nascar has an event once a week for something like 40 weeks a year. There is only one show per week. The NBA has dozens of games every week.

                            If you add up the total viewers who have watched the NBA last season and compared it to the total viewers who watched Nascar the NBA has more viewers, as far as gross totals go.

                            OK, you say well that is not a good barometer. Maybe not.

                            But the NBA Finals got more viewers per game than the Daytona 500 about 30% more. And the Daytona 500 is an event that every fan knows when it will be, and it is more comparable to a NBA Finals game 7.

                            OK you don't like that barometer either. Does the average Sunday afternoon Nacar event have higher ratings than tht eaverage NNBA regular season Sunday afternoon game, yes without question about double the viewers. But NBA fans have dozens of other games they can watch every day of the week. Nascar has one event per week.

                            If there was one NBA game per week on national TV Sunday afternoon I think it would get higher ratings than Nascar.

                            So it is very difficult to compare the ratings of the two sports. The fairest comparision is the Daytona 500 ratings vs the NBA Finals ratings and the Pistons lakers ratings were about 30% higher. Of course to be fair the Nets vs Spurs Finals ratings were lower than thr Daytona 500 rataings.

                            No doubt Nascar has a larger die-hard fan base than the NBA.

                            I think the NBA is more popular when you take everything into account, but it is much, much closer than it used to be


                            • #15
                              Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                              Well there are so many issues to debate with this topic. First of all nascar has definitely passed the NHL in terms of what are the biggest drawing sports. BUT so has Golf.

                              I think a lot of fans on this forum will disagree with this nest statement, because they are NBA fans, but outside of NBA circles it is common knowledge it is losing pace to a lot of sports not just Nascar.

                              For example it could be argued that college basketball and college football are far superior to NBA. Add in Nascar and the resurgence of MLB and NBA is becoming just another sports league.

                              The only true monster is the NFL. There is nothing even close to it in terms of popularity.

                              Now onto some of my thoughts on the reasons why other sporting avenues have caught up.

                              1. And i know this will strike a cord with lots of people, but it is not meant to be offensive....but the NBA does not have the diversity of players to attract fans of ALL colors. What i mean by this, is sure the NBA has white players, Chinese players, Euros, etc...but it is not as widespread and per team as it is in NFL and MLB. For example if i am a white person and want to follwo a white player(be it wrong or not) chances are in NBA there may not be one on my local or favorite team, where as in NFL or MLB there is a good chance my local or favorite team will have one that i can call my favorite player.

                              This is not a racist statement just a note that as a certain race or type of person it is easier to follow and have favorite players that you can relate to in other leagues than the NBA.

                              Lets face it the NBA is an African American dominated sport. Bird is right, there are very few white superstars....and lets be honest what is the largest majority of American sports watchers. I would venture to say the white male, simply becuase of numbers. And then you add in the sports wives and women that watch that are white and it only increases.

                              Now i am white, but i love the NBA, but looking at it objectively, this is why many people i know dont follow the NBA because they cannot connect with not only the game but the way it is played. No more jump shots, passing, etc...its all about one on one playground moves and highlight dunks. Obviously true NBA fans know it is more than that, but the common fan does not.

                              2. Scheduling. period. too many games. The NFL and Nascar have proven that a weekly event is much easier to sell than a nightly event. Too many games and long seasons lead to people tuning out and not caring until playoffs come around. In NFL and NASCAR every race or football game means something. Your season and chances of being a champion are on the line every game or race. It adds drama and excitement to every play, every race maneuver, etc...