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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

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Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Rule #10

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NBA vs. NASCAR

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  • #16
    Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

    diego. Yes college football gets higher ratings than the NBA. But the NBA Finals average rating for the 5 games was higher than the NCAA basketball championship game this past season.


    Nascar is less diverse a than any sport played today. So I don't know if I buy youir argument there

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

      The NFL and Nascar both let the fans and players themselves create who the stars are. The NBA tries to create the stars and shove them to the forefront.

      I also agree with the idea that the way the NBA game is played (and promoted) doesn't connect with Joe Sixpack. The NBA is promoting high-flying dunks and the like but many fans see the dunk as a symptom of a poor defense. The refs are letting traveling calls go... and watching fouls by superstars while they swallow their whistle. Meanwhile, superstars (who may have that title because the NBA gave it to them rather than earning it) get fouled if an opposing player is in the vicinity.

      And I disagree with the notion that driving ovals doesn't require skill. OTOH, I agree with the idea that the Nascar competition has been dumbed down to keep things close.

      -Bball
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

        NBA vs NASCAR

        If NBA players raced against the NASCAR drivers, they'd lose.
        If NASCAR drivers played against NBA players, they'd lose.

        I say it's a draw.

        [edit=53=1092157147][/edit]
        [edit=53=1092157168][/edit]

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

          Originally posted by Unclebuck
          diego. Yes college football gets higher ratings than the NBA. But the NBA Finals average rating for the 5 games was higher than the NCAA basketball championship game this past season.


          Nascar is less diverse a than any sport played today. So I don't know if I buy youir argument there

          UB, it is not just about ratings, and i hope you understand that, if not there is no point discussing this further. Just for information, because i really dont know, how did the NCAA tourney as a whole compare to the NBA playoffs as a whole? I am just curious.

          As far as Nascar being less diverse, i completely agree. But my point was who it relates to. America by numbers which you seem to understand, is predominatly white middle aged male. Nascar appeals to that type individual.

          Do you understand what i am saying.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

            I think NBA is more popuar than NASCAR but NASCAR isn't far behind the NBA.The only sports I follow are NFL,NBA,MLB(Since nothing else is on durig the summer).I only really watch the Brickyard,Daytona for NASCAR.
            Super Bowl XLI Champions
            2000 Eastern Conference Champions




            Comment


            • #21
              Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

              I totally disagree about the Brickyard being boring. Yes, there were some tire problems but the drivers were doing things they had never done at Indy before. Instead of playing follow the leader, the drivers were aggressive going 2 and sometimes 3 into the corner. But I will acknowledge it's a matter of perception. I raced SCCA and enduro go-karts for a while so I have a different appreciation.

              I cannot relate to NHL hockey. Never played hockey. Looks like soccer on ice to me. But . . . I do like watching Olympic hockey - go figure.

              As far as NASCAR, the reasons it's so popular is because of the great promotions and packaging they do. Their properties marketing is second to none and there is ACCESSIBILITY to the participants.
              The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                Maybe this helps keep this thread even more on topic:

                NASCAR drives toward diversity

                Skepticism reigns because previous attempts proved negligible

                By Todd D. Burlage

                The Journal Gazette


                Bill Lester is one in a million. Well, actually, he’s more like one in about 250.

                See, of the 250 drivers that have started an event in one of NASCAR’s top three series this season, Bill Lester is the only black driver. In fact, he’s one of only two black drivers to race in NASCAR since its birth in 1947.

                But don’t try to call him a pioneer. And don’t call him a trailblazer.

                “I just consider myself a race car driver,” said Lester, a full-time competitor on NASCAR’s Craftsman Truck Series. “I just happen to be a black race car driver.”

                If NASCAR gets its way, Lester’s story won’t be so unique in a few years. Through its Drive for Diversity program, America’s foremost stock-car circuit hopes to open racing opportunities to minorities and women who would never get the chance otherwise.

                Lester is the first black driver to compete in NASCAR since Wendell Scott more than 30 years ago. Scott raced full-time for 12 seasons and even won a race in NASCAR’s top circuit in 1964. But when the official announcement of Scott’s win was delayed until the white fans cleared the stands, racial divisions only deepened within the sport.

                Lester might not face the same racial attitudes Scott endured in the South through the 1960s and 1970s, but he admitted that competing as a minority in a white man’s game has been difficult at times.

                “It’s been a blessing and a curse,” said Lester, who runs 21st in points for Bill Davis Racing. “I think it is somewhat of a curse because African-Americans haven’t been generally accepted as race car drivers. So for a marketing person to take a risk on an unknown is something in this day and age of corporate America very few are willing to do.”

                Driving change

                NASCAR is bringing out the heavy hitters to see that the demographics of its series better match those of the general population.

                The Rev. Jesse Jackson has gotten involved. Former NFL star Reggie White has gotten involved. NBA legend Earvin “Magic” Johnson was even introduced in May as co-chairman to the NASCAR’s Executive Steering Commission for Diversity.

                “When you think of the NASCAR brand, it resonates everywhere,” Johnson said. “We hope that we can reach out to minorities across this country and introduce a wonderful sport that is already doing very, very well.”

                Johnson is the front man for the Drive for Diversity program – an initiative that, in part, gives minorities and women a chance to drive or work on a Dodge Weekly Series late-model team, learn the ropes and eventually move through NASCAR’s ranks.

                Based on their performances during a “racing combine,” five drivers and six crew members were awarded places on a fully-sponsored race team. The combine had attracted more than 100 applicants.

                Allison Duncan was one of the lucky 11.

                At age 24, Duncan already has seven years of racing experience, mainly in sports cars. Now through Drive for Diversity, Duncan has the best equipment, sponsorships and a string of top-five finishes in the Dodge Weekly Series.

                Sunoco and Miller Lite are the primary sponsors on Duncan’s late-model Dodge, so money and equipment are no longer issues. She does keep a full-time job as a driving instructor.

                “This wasn’t a gimme. They didn’t just find me on the street and say, ‘Hey, if you want to drive a race car, we will give you the money to drive,’ ” Duncan said. “You look at every successful race car driver out there, and everyone of them has had their big break, their big chance. This is my time. This is my break to be able to prove myself.”

                This isn’t the first time NASCAR has welcomed diverse groups and initiatives into its organization. But the success from previous attempts is negligible.

                Former pro athletes Julius Erving, Joe Washington and Hank Aaron all became involved in racing, but quickly dropped out. Rap star Nelly bought into a Craftsman Truck Team last season, but lasted only a few races, and Dodge recently pulled the plug on its own diversity initiative.

                So what makes NASCAR think this time is different? And how will it measure success with its new program?

                “If we don’t have a black or a Hispanic, or a full-time female driver by 2005 or 2006 in Nextel Cup, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t a success,” said Tish Sheets, Diversity and Special Projects Director for NASCAR. “We are opening the doors and drawing people that we didn’t have before.”

                Another perspective

                Junius Matthews is skeptical of NASCAR’s Drive for Diversity program.

                Matthews, 48, is a black man who has dedicated nearly his entire life to racing.

                Whether it was pushing a broom in garages around his hometown of Grand Island, Neb., or serving as a racing mechanic and crew member on an Indy Racing League team, Matthews has seen and done it all.

                It’s not that Matthews believes minorities and women don’t deserve a chance, he just doesn’t think good drivers and crew members can be manufactured through a combine.

                “There is not a black kid out there that has the seat time to go out there and win one of these races,” he said. “We got kids in Indiana, they start racing at 4 1/2 years old. I don’t know who you’re kidding if you think they can just jump in a car and go and win races.

                “They’ll put kids in cars because it is going to sell T-shirts and it is going to put people in the stands, but I don’t think they will ever have a chance.”

                NASCAR uses popularity studies and sales figures to dispute Matthews’ claims, saying the time is right for diversity because network television exposure has helped raise popularity levels 29 percent among blacks and 23 percent among Hispanics since 1999. NASCAR apparel sales are also up sharply among urban youth.

                “NASCAR is pleased with the strong strides we have made with the Hispanic fans since 1999,” a NASCAR news release stated. “And while we are encouraged by our progress, we are still deeply committed to further the sport of NASCAR with all potential fans.”

                Problem is, a separate news release announcing the popularity spike among black fans offers the same exact quote only with the words “African American” inserted in place of “Hispanic.”

                It’s that sort of “insert-minority-group-here” thinking that leads Matthews to question NASCAR’s motives.

                “What is the diversity program about? Now that we are getting as much money out of white America as we can, we want to bring in minorities?” he said. “Or is it really and truly an opportunity for minorities to get involved in Motorsports? What is the real motive here?”

                Matthews currently works with Cadillac’s show-car program and holds out hope of owning his own race team. It’s at the minority ownership level that Matthews said NASCAR needs to begin its grassroots effort, not just with drivers and crewmembers.

                “And not owners like Magic Johnson and Joe Washington or Julius Irving, but people like myself that have dedicated their life to this sport and know and understand how to put a team together,” Matthews said. “(Johnson) is a basketball player, he doesn’t know what he is doing. That would be like me trying to coach a basketball team.

                “As a crew member you understand a quarter-pound of air pressure in one tire, or one click of a shock, or one wrong spring in the wrong place, and no matter how hard you try and no matter how good that driver is, you are not going to win a race, you are not going to go to the front.”

                More than a race

                NASCAR insists that Drive for Diversity is more than simply trying to get more minorities and women in cars, garages and stands.

                The program is also intended to create scholarships and unique opportunities for urban youth, and offer NASCAR careers beyond the racetrack in areas such as marketing or public relations.

                With the program in its infancy, success will be relative and hard to measure for a couple of years. But many believe it’s a good idea, if executed properly.

                “I think it’s got to start as kids,” driver Jeff Gordon said. “I grew up racing, and we’ve got to get more minorities growing up in racing. It’s a long road ahead of them, but we’ve seen a huge growth.”

                http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/9317419.htm

                -------------------------

                -Bball
                Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

                ------

                "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

                -John Wooden

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                  [quote=TheSauceMaster]
                  It seems when I goto a Pacers game anymore it's all suits and higher class people and not the real fans I remember , I am not saying real fans don't go but it just seems more like a big bussiness party at Pacer games. Now when I goto Nascar Races you see alot more families and don't ask me why , you just do.



                  quote]
                  Yea the business people annoy me becuase I most of the time sit in the lowers and when I stand up and yell they look at me funny.The business people or most of them do not view the games like we diehards do I think.They watch the games more to be entertained unlike us becuase we don't want the game to be in crunch time becuase that is called a nail biter and we hate them. I'm not saying all business people view the games as entertainment but IMO most do.And yes we fans want to be entertained but not where we are going to be real nervous about us maybe losing.At least I don't.I would be happy to watch every Pacers game this year even if everygame is a blowout.I would love that.Just my
                  Super Bowl XLI Champions
                  2000 Eastern Conference Champions




                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                    I'd rather watch a million one-point wins than two million blowout wins.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                      I don't see NASCAR and the NBA as competitors. You look at demographics, marketing, sponsorships, crowds, event timing, etc. and if NASCAR really has a competitor, it's the NFL.

                      Seriously, when do basketball and racing ever conflict? Someone can very easily be a fan of both, and almost never have to choose between the two. If you're lucky, you get one or two races a year you can attend in person? Is someone going to choose between going to the Brickyard, and going to a Pacer game, or 10, or 40? No. Sure, if you go to Daytona, you might miss an NBA game, but that's not going to preclude you from going to another one the next week.

                      On television, they rarely intersect. Sure, there are Sunday games (after the NFL's done), but if you miss a Lakers-Heat game because you're watching Richmond, it's not gonna keep you from catching Spurs-Wolves on TNT the next Thursday. And that's only for people who haven't heard of a nifty device called a remote control, let alone VCR's or TiVo.

                      Football against racing is completely different. The TV contract for NASCAR is divided between two networks BECAUSE of football. Ratings for both sports falter when they go head to head. Someone who's a fan of both isn't going to get season tickets for the Colts, cause unless he's got a TiVo, he's gonna miss races. Likewise, somebody might not go to Chicagoland in September cause da' Bears are playing.

                      As hit upon above, NASCAR and the NFL (and, to a lesser extent, college football) are so successful because they don't saturate the market. Simple supply and demand. Consolidation and limited access makes their market share grow.

                      Which makes them a different standard than the NBA, MLB, NHL, and their sports' respective minor leagues. There's so many games, you can pick and choose what to watch or go to. And their schedules step all over each other. If you've got the money, there's no reason you can't get Pacers and Colts season tickets (I've done it.) But, it's unlikely you're gonna get Pacers and Indians tickets, or Pistons and Tigers, or Pistons and Red Wings. Get my drift?

                      The point I'm trying to make is, as NBA fans, we shouldn't worry about NASCAR or the NFL. We don't compete directly against them (something Stern was thankful of when I saw him in March). IMO, our major competitors are MLB and the NHL. Of the two, hockey is the more natural rival, but, let's face it. Hockey is on life-support, and it's possible they'll pull the plug for the forseeable future.

                      Baseball is another story. They've rebounded since the mid-90's, and basketball has fallen off in the same time period. Both sports have moved towards limited broadcasts with major cable exposure. While they only go head to head half the year, if you want to worry about a competing sport, every thing points towards baseball. Growing up in Indiana where kids played basketball or soccer instead of little league, I don't see the appeal. But turn on ESPN or ESPN Radio, and, even in the dead of winter, odds are you'll see baseball being discussed.

                      To sum up, you can argue what order to rank all the sports, but it's just semantics, not to mention comparing apples and oranges. But if you're looking for a sport that threatens your NBA lifeblood, look no further than MLB, and their demonic champion, ESPN. Repeat after me, Baseball is evil.

                      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                        Originally posted by MSA2CF
                        I'd rather watch a million one-point wins than two million blowout wins.
                        I didn't mean 2 million blowouts!
                        Super Bowl XLI Champions
                        2000 Eastern Conference Champions




                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                          Sniff, sniff.....What a beautiful moment, my first thread to go over a page.

                          It seems to me that it isn't really about relating to the "athletes", so much as feeling a certain "cultural comfort" with them. I think the NBA is perceived as having embraced a certain ethnic (not necessarily racial) "street" quality that doesn't feel comfortable for some people. I'm not sure if I'm quite saying what I mean to say, but it just strikes me that it's equally hard to "relate" to someone like Mark Martin or Dale Earnhardt Jr as it is to "relate" to Allen Iverson or JO. I mean all these guys live lives we can't relate to, whether they're in NASCAR, NBA, or VODA. But the NASCAR guys just seem somehow more accessible to some people, and NBA players don't.

                          Now that I write it out, it doesn't sound as good as when I thought it, but I'll go ahead and post it anyway.
                          "If you ever crawl inside an old hollow log and go to sleep, and while you're in there some guys come and seal up both ends and then put it on a truck and take it to another city, boy, I don't know what to tell you." - Jack Handy

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                            oh geezuz...nascar is sooooooooooo boring! id rather watch golf! (wait, maybe not) It's only exciting when wrecks happen. lol

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                            • #29
                              Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                              Originally posted by diego

                              Now i am white, but i love the NBA, but looking at it objectively, this is why many people i know dont follow the NBA because they cannot connect with not only the game but the way it is played. No more jump shots, passing, etc...its all about one on one playground moves and highlight dunks. Obviously true NBA fans know it is more than that, but the common fan does not.

                              That is why I think the NBA has gone down in popularity. I love watching great defense and all, but most teams simply don't play the game right anymore. The jumpshot has become secondary in the league now, to skills like dunking, circus lay ups, etc. Ball movement and outside shooting are basically a thing of the past now.
                              You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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                              • #30
                                Re: NBA vs. NASCAR

                                Originally posted by JOneal7
                                oh geezuz...nascar is sooooooooooo boring! id rather watch golf! (wait, maybe not) It's only exciting when wrecks happen. lol

                                Please - don't move here!
                                The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

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