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Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

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"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

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"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

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B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

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If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

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The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

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It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

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However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

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We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

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Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

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  • #61
    Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

    The Lakers play the triple post offence which is a 2-guard front system, meaning there's no PG as the position is normally understood. There are 2 guards who share duties (even though in the Lakers one of them, Kobe, is extremely dominant). 2 guard front offences were very popular back in the day and they can still be effective.

    Turner can't play as the quarterback of a PG centric offence, so he isn't a PG, but he can surely be the primary creator and playmaker for some team - think Pierce in Boston until 2 years ago or Joe Johnson in Atlanta. Turner can do a lot of stuff and doesn't need the ball on his hands all the time, that's his biggest asset.

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    • #62
      Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

      Originally posted by Anthem View Post
      Remind me... what was his team's record back then?


      Sure. And Kobe's a point guard. And Brandon Roy's a point guard. And Dwayne Wade's a point guard. And probably Dirk too.
      I could not find that a PG should be under 6'4'' according to this descriptions you can call Lebron, Kobe and Brandon Roy point guards, not comments about Dirk(not worth it)
      http://www.answers.com/topic/point-guard
      point guard definition:

      Point guard (PG), also called the play maker or "the ball-handler", is one of the standard positions in a regulation basketball game. A point guard has perhaps the most specialized role of any position -- essentially, they are expected to run the team's offense by controlling the ball and making sure that it gets to the right players at the right time. Above all, the point guard must totally understand and accept his or her coach's game plan; in this way, the position can be compared to a quarterback in American football

      Point guard characteristics
      A point guard, like all player positions in basketball, has specific characteristics that are essential for them to help guide their team to a victory. The Basketball Handbook by Lee Rose describes a point guard as a coach on the floor, who can handle and distribute the ball to teammates. It also states that the more speed a point guard has, the more likely he will be able to create separation and space off the dribble, which allows the point guard room to work. Point guards should also be vocal floor leaders, and should discuss rule interpretations with officials. A point guard must always know the time on both the shot clock and the game clock, the score, the number of timeouts for both teams, and whom to foul late in the game.

      Most current NBA point guards are 6'4" (1.93 m) or lower in height. A true point guard's job is to create scoring opportunities for his team. The role includes passing and running the offense: setting up plays on the court, getting the ball to the teammate that he feels is in the best position to score, and dictating the tempo of the game. This also means knowing when and how to instigate a fast break and when and how to initiate the more deliberate sets.[1]

      After an opponent scores, it is typically the point guard who brings the ball down court to begin an offensive play. For this reason, passing skills, ball handling, and court vision are pivotal. Point guards are often evaluated more on their assist totals than on their scoring. John Stockton, who is considered one of the greatest point guards of all time, is the NBA's all time leader in assists. Still, a first-rate point guard should also have a reasonably effective jump shot.

      If a point guard has more size (height, muscle) compared to the prototypical point guard, it is considered a plus, but size is only secondary to awareness and ball skills. Among the taller players who have enjoyed success at the position is Magic Johnson, who was 6'9"/2.06 m and won the National Basketball Association Most Valuable Player Award three times in his career. Other point guards who have been named the NBA MVP include Bob Cousy, Oscar Robertson (who somewhat foreshadowed Johnson in that he was 6'5"/1.96 m, the size of many forwards in his era), and Steve Nash.

      Styles of play
      Offense
      The point guard is almost always positioned on the perimeter of the play, so as to have the best view of the action. This is a necessity because of the point guard's leadership obligations. Many times, the point guard is referred to by announcers as a "coach on the floor" or a "floor general". In the past, this was particularly true, as several point guards such as Lenny Wilkens served their team as a player-coach. This is not as common anymore, as most coaches are now solely specialized to coaching and are non-players. Some point guards are still given a great deal of leeway in the offense, such as Steve Nash of the Phoenix Suns. Former Suns head coach Mike D'Antoni had allowed him to freelance often when leading the Suns' offense, even letting Nash call his own plays at times. Even point guards who are not given this much freedom, however, are still extensions of their coach on the floor and must display good leadership skills.

      Along with leadership and a general basketball acumen, ball-handling is a skill of great importance to a point guard. Generally speaking, the point guard is the player in possession of the ball for the most time during a game and is responsible for maintaining possession of the ball for his team in the face of any pressure from the opponents. Point guards must be able to maintain possession of the ball in crowded spaces and in traffic and be able to advance the ball quickly. A point guard that has enough ball-handling skill and quickness to be able to drive to the basket in a half-court set is also very valuable and considered by some to be a must for a successful offense.

      After overall ball-handling, passing and scoring are the next most important areas of the game for a point guard. As the primary decision maker for a team, a point guard's passing ability determines how well a point guard is able to put his or her decision into play. It is one thing to be able to recognize the player that it is in a tactically advantageous position, but it is another thing entirely to able to deliver the ball to that player. For this reason, a point guard is usually, but not always, more skilled and focused on passing than shooting. However, a good jump shot and the ability to score off a drive to the basket are still valuable skills. A point guard will often use his or her ability to score in order to augment his or her effectiveness as a decision maker and play maker.

      In addition to the traditional role of the point guard, modern teams have found new ways to utilize the position. Notably, several modern point guards have used a successful style of post play, a tactic usually practiced by much larger centers and forwards. Working off of the fact that the opposing point guard is in all probability an undersized player with limited strength, several modern point guards have developed games close to the basket that include being able to utilize the drop step, spin move, and fade away jump shot. Former New York Knicks & Indiana Pacers PG Mark Jackson, and Chauncey Billups (now of the Denver Nuggets) are notable examples of players who frequently use this style of play. Michael Jordan's habit of incessantly backing down opposing PGs in the post actually prompted the NBA to institute a rule against a ballhandler keeping his back to the basket for more than 5 seconds at a time.

      Defense
      A point guard primarily defends on the perimeter, just as he primarily plays on the perimeter on offense. On defense, the point guard is tasked with making the opposing point guard as ineffective as possible. A defensive point guard will try to accomplish this with constant pressure on the ball, making it difficult to maintain possession. A defensive point guard will also pressure passing lanes to his opponent to try and generate steals and offensive opportunities for his own team.

      Another important task for a point guard on the defensive end is to be a help defender. Whenever the player that the point guard is tasked with defending is away from the ball, a point guard will usually allow distance to accumulate from his or her assignment in order to help his or her teammates with their assignments. Gary Payton, John Stockton, Jason Kidd, and Walt Frazier are often considered among the greatest defensive point guards in NBA history
      @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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      • #63
        Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

        It's called "Point Forward"

        i.e. Magic Johnson

        "I've got an idea--an idea so smart that my head would explode if I even began to know what I'm talking about." - Peter Griffin

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        • #64
          Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

          Originally posted by DGPR View Post
          It's called "Point Forward"

          i.e. Magic Johnson
          Magic was the PG (except for that one game where he subbed for an injured Kareem and played Center). AC Green and James Worthy were the starting forwards for most of Magic's career.

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          • #65
            Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

            Lets not get ahead of ourselves, Evan Turner isn't Magic Johnson.

            Turner won't touch the point guard slot regardless of what team drafts him, for the same reason Mo William, Billups and Westbrook play point alongside LeBron, Carmelo and Durant respectively.

            It just isn't a realistic thought.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

              Originally posted by Sookie View Post
              way to describe Kobe Bryant...who is...not a point guard.
              You're talking about some textbook definition of pg apparently.
              The Kobe I see has the ball in his hands to start the offensive set whenever they need points.
              Sounds like a point guard to me.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                Originally posted by Sookie View Post
                4 turnovers per game. 1.5 assist to turnover ratio. Which admittedly is better than his 1.1 assist to turnover ratio the year before.

                I'm not gonna argue it anymore though. If we're lucky enough to get him, It'll be pretty obvious he's not a point guard. I understand people absolutely drool over the scoring advantage we'd have at the point, with Turner having to be guarded by like..Nash..but honestly, the negatives really out weight the positives (espeically since, despite having the scoring advantage, his #1 job will be setting other people up. Wouldn't we rather someone was setting HIM up.)
                Totally ignoring the fact that this is his FIRST year playing the position.
                That he has next to nothing to help him on the offensive side of the floor.
                That he is back from a BROKEN BONE IN HIS BACK (same season).
                If WE get him, there's not much doubt he'll play pg.
                If someone else that already has a good pg does, then he won't.
                He's a BASKETBALL PLAYER, first, foremost, and completely.
                He could play 1, 2, or 3 (did I mention that he LEAD THE BIG 10 IN REBOUNDING!!!!! As a GUARD!!!!) at the next level.
                Fact is, WE don't have anybody to set him up, he will be the best we have (if we are lucky enough) at setting OTHER people up.
                You will see.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                  Originally posted by knucklecup View Post
                  Lets not get ahead of ourselves, Evan Turner isn't Magic Johnson.

                  Turner won't touch the point guard slot regardless of what team drafts him, for the same reason Mo William, Billups and Westbrook play point alongside LeBron, Carmelo and Durant respectively.

                  It just isn't a realistic thought.
                  It's not out of the question that he might be. He's a very special player.
                  He will play the pg for the Pacers if we get him
                  It is entirely realistic.
                  You haven't seen this kid enough.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                    No problem with playing Turner at the two, but allowing him to create most of the actiona a la Roy, Wade, etc. The kid is plenty talented enough to be as good as Roy. You stick a great shooting PG next to him a la Mo Williams, Steve Blake, you name it and you have a great backcourt.

                    People get too caught up in positions IMHO. I don't think there have been "point guards", "shooting guards", etc. in the NBA for about the past decade. Everyone is a hybrid of some sort in today's NBA.


                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                      Bill Simmons: 2010 NBA trade value column - ESPN

                      Originally posted by Bill Simmons
                      15. Tyreke Evans

                      The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him. You can't call these guys point guards, and they handle the ball too much to be 2-guards. So they're 0-guards. Ideally, you want to surround 0-guards with spot-up shooters, one rebounder and a pick-and-pop forward who can make 18-footers. Gilbert Arenas created the 0-guard position, for better or worse; Dwyane Wade mastered it; Brandon Roy strikes the best balance between selfish and unselfish; and Evans might have the most raw talent of any of them. I've personally seen him turn four or five games into layup lines this season. And yet, would I want to play with him? Right now not really. Some day maybe.
                      Turner would probably qualify as a 0-guard.

                      If you look at their shot attempts and assists per-game their final seasons of NCAA play, I think you could make a strong argument that Turner is the least-selfish of the bunch coming into the league, even more-so than Roy.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                        Free tickets to every Pacers game while Evan is a member of the team? I'll take it.

                        If Evan got drafted by the Pacers my whole world would be flipped upside down. My childhood friend the star of the Pacers? I can't fathom it.

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                          Originally posted by Isaac View Post
                          Free tickets to every Pacers game while Evan is a member of the team? I'll take it.

                          If Evan got drafted by the Pacers my whole world would be flipped upside down. My childhood friend the star of the Pacers? I can't fathom it.
                          Childhood friend huh? How often does E.T. phone home then?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                            Originally posted by jeffg-body View Post
                            If we could somehow land Turner if Wall were already gone I'd be very happy. I think they both will be special players at the next level. I think that he is my favorite college player this year.

                            I think with Turner we could play that small ball JOB likes so much. Maybe with this line-up:

                            PG- Price
                            SG- Turner
                            SF- Rush
                            PF- Granger
                            C- Hibbert



                            I'll say this. The Pacers have put far worse line-ups on the floor.

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Say we somehow land Evan Turner...

                              Originally posted by Tom White View Post
                              I'll say this. The Pacers have put far worse line-ups on the floor.
                              that is so true..............
                              @WhatTheFFacts: Studies show that sarcasm enhances the ability of the human mind to solve complex problems!

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