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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

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  • Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

    Shawne Williams has gone from being a celebrated first-round NBA draft pick to someone who may as well adopt the nickname Casper.

    He's suddenly become a ghost in the basketball world.
    Shawne Williams

    The Dallas Mavericks employ Williams. He's officially on their roster. The 6-9 forward is earning more than $2 million.

    But Williams is not mentioned in the team's game notes. You won't see the former University of Memphis standout on the Mavs' bench when they visit the Grizzlies tonight.

    "He was asked to leave," Mavs owner Mark Cuban wrote in an e-mail. "Can't get into it beyond that."

    Cuban gave the Dallas Morning News a more blunt response: "We got Shawne Williams and took a chance on him. It didn't work out and we put him out to pasture."

    What ever happened to Shawne Williams?

    The 23-year-old Memphian out of Hamilton High, whose hoops dream got interrupted by some incidents, finds his career on hold. He's literally being paid to stay away from the Mavs.

    Listen to Williams, and he doesn't sound disturbed or discouraged.

    "I just feel like there were a lot of irreconcilable differences," Williams said. "If I could be there, I would be there. It's not like I'm not there by choice. It's by force. But I don't have a grudge. Mark's a great owner. He's hands-on. He likes basketball. We're just two different people. It's a business."

    On the surface, Williams is experiencing the same treatment the Indiana Pacers dished to Griz point guard Jamaal Tinsley nearly two years ago. Both players were told to stay away from their respective franchises even though they could play at a high level.

    "I just learned from it," Tinsley said. "The only thing I can tell Shawne is that when you get another opportunity just play hard and do what's asked. It's a business. There's always somebody else there to take your spot on the roster."

    Williams has been dogged by off-court issues that have clouded the opinion of his basketball worth since 2006 when the Pacers drafted him. Mavs coach Rick Carlisle -- Williams' coach while a rookie with the Pacers -- insisted on swapping veteran Eddie Jones for Williams in October 2008.

    Yet Williams has spent more time between Dallas, Memphis and Las Vegas with personal trainers than in NBA arenas over the past year.

    Williams' agent, Happy Walters, blames Williams' circumstance on perception, pointing out that his client hasn't experienced legal issues in Dallas.

    "He's not as bad as what everyone seems to think," Walters said. "Shawne and Mark Cuban haven't seen eye-to-eye. It has nothing to do with the (Dallas) coaches and teammates. It's between him and Mark."

    Williams insists his separation has mainly to do with a difference of opinion on what his role should be. Williams said he expected to play more, and the Mavs were unwilling to commit.

    "I knew I was going to a talented team," Williams said. "I didn't know I wasn't going to play."

    The Mavs had little complaints about his basketball ability. They consider him a talent. His toughness, skill set and love for the game were never brought into question.

    The Mavs, much like the Pacers, quickly became disenchanted by Williams' lifestyle off the court.

    Mavs security personnel and Dallas law enforcement began to warn the organization about Williams' personal behavior.

    Williams downplayed his social life and insisted he was always ready to perform.

    "A lot of stuff I did three years ago, I won't do right now," Williams said. "You get older and grow up. That's life. I had a lot of problems when I first got into the NBA but I was young. I feel like I haven't gotten into any trouble not to be on the court. I'm finally not getting into trouble and I'm not on the court. That's mind-boggling."

    Williams has turned to his former college coach, John Calipari, at times for "some suggestions." Walters has talked to the Mavericks about buying out his client's contract. During training camp, Williams was willing to take less than the $2.4 million he will be paid this season. The Mavs, however, reportedly are keeping Williams in case he can help facilitate a future trade.

    Williams sounded confident he'll find a new home by the February trade deadline. "But it's been a very frustrating process," Walters said. "Mark's a powerful guy. Once he has his mind made up it's hard to change it."

    Williams, fairly or not, has a role to play in convincing another team to take a chance on him should he become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

    "That's the perception," Williams said. "But I'm not putting myself in bad positions. That's the past."

    Williams' past includes an arrest in September 2007 after a traffic stop when an officer found marijuana in the SUV he was driving. He pleaded guilty to driving without a license. The Pacers suspended Williams for three games.

    It was one of three incidents involving police over a span of 13 months.

    A murder suspect in Tennessee was arrested shortly after leaving Williams' suburban Indianapolis home, and police later arrested a passenger for marijuana possession in Williams' car. Williams was not arrested but was ticketed for window tint and seatbelt violations.

    "I was in the wrong place at the wrong time," Williams said about those transgressions. "A lot of people I had around me I shouldn't have. I was young. I feel like (Pacers president) Larry Bird and I had a good enough relationship that he asked me if I liked the trade to (Dallas). I agreed to the trade. And Larry said he thought it would be good for me."

    Williams is convinced he'll be celebrated again in the NBA; that he won't be a ghost for long.

    "I'm a comeback kid," Williams said. "I'll be back."
    http://www.commercialappeal.com/news...-of-potential/
    By Ronald Tillery
    "So, which one of you guys is going to come in second?" - Larry Bird before the 3 point contest. He won.



  • #2
    Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

    "He's not as bad as what everyone seems to think," (player agent) Walters said.

    wow... what a ringing endorsement from his agent....
    Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

    ------

    "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

    -John Wooden

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

      Shawne's probably not the worst draft pick we ever made, but when I think about the long list of quality point guards who were available, it still makes me sick.
      Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

        "I'm finally not getting into trouble and I'm not on the court. That's mind-boggling."


        Not as mind-boggling as his disconnect to reality.
        "Look, it's up to me to put a team around ... Lance right now." —Kevin Pritchard press conference

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

          Aside from Rondo, there weren't that many PGs available. Marcus Williams, Lowry, Farmar, Serg. Rodriguez; none of those guys would've made a difference (maybe Farmar).


          Sad to see what happened with Williams. I've never been more frustrated and disappointed with a player that has the physcial talent to be great. Still sounds clueless.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

            A waste of potential indeed, I hope he turns it around. Having all the physical gifts to play in the NBA does not make a player great. There is no substitution for hard work and desire to be great.
            Avatar photo credit: Bahram Mark Sobhani - AP

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

              Good think Shawne get it now and has turned his career and life around. Ha, any guesses on his weight?

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                Two things caught my attention, one concerning Shawn Williams...:

                The Mavs, much like the Pacers, quickly became disenchanted by Williams' lifestyle off the court.

                Mavs security personnel and Dallas law enforcement began to warn the organization about Williams' personal behavior.

                Williams downplayed his social life and insisted he was always ready to perform.

                ...the other concerning Jamaal Tinsley...:

                "I just learned from it," Tinsley said. "The only thing I can tell Shawne is that when you get another opportunity just play hard and do what's asked. It's a business. There's always somebody else there to take your spot on the roster."
                The former seems to have suddenly become humbled once he realized his playing days would be put on hold. The latter seems humbled because he now realizes he has a second chance at such a rare opportunity.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                  Originally posted by McKeyFan View Post
                  "I'm finally not getting into trouble and I'm not on the court. That's mind-boggling."


                  Not as mind-boggling as his disconnect to reality.
                  What a moron. Glad he's gone from the team.
                  2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                  2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

                  2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                    I don't get this. He wasn't even impressive on the court. He must have been the champion at individual workouts, measurements, and H-O-R-S-E. Or something.
                    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                    And life itself, rushing over me
                    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                      Originally posted by ChicagoJ View Post
                      I don't get this. He wasn't even impressive on the court. He must have been the champion at individual workouts, measurements, and H-O-R-S-E. Or something.


                      kid actually could ball......loads of talent... and we could use a finisher like that....... him and danny at the 3 & 4 heres to what could have been
                      I'm not perfect and neither are you.

                      Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the esteem of Elohim,
                      Ephisians 4: 32 And be kind towards one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as Elohim also forgave you in Messiah.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                        The history of the NBA is full of guys like this. It's just now, with the mediots and their need to write something, that we hear about more and more of them. His story is nothing unique.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                          He is still very young. I see him maturing some and figuring out life, then actually having a good nba career.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                            I couldn't wait to get rid of Williams, and yet there was a "great many" on this board who was against him being shown the door. I viewed him as another problem waiting to happen. He was so wrapped up in his group of friends he couldn't see the forest for the trees. He had that famous word called "potential." At one time, Dallas had 2 young players with a lot of "P" in Williams and Gerald Green, and neither could do anything.

                            BTW, where is Green now? I've lost track of him.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Shawne Williams a ghost of potential

                              Originally posted by sportfireman View Post
                              kid actually could ball......loads of talent... and we could use a finisher like that....... him and danny at the 3 & 4 heres to what could have been
                              So in a three minute clip, of which about 50 seconds were actully college highlights, we watched him finish a couple of alley-oops, finish a couple of fast breaks, give a couple high fives, so slo-mo replays of those finishes, and hit a couple spot-up jumpers.

                              What about the other 1,691 minutes of his career? A lot of standing around looking lost.

                              The kid had a few raw skills but had no clue on the court or off the court.

                              If that was supposed to impress me, it failed almost as bad as watching him try to play failed to impress me.
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                              Comment

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