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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

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  • #16
    Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

    Naptime - Naptown_Seth (no need to explain the origin)
    Read my Pacers blog:
    8points9seconds.com

    Follow my twitter:

    @8pts9secs

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

      Let's not forget to explain the "Hating JayRedd" mood icon while we are at it.

      Speaking of annoying posters, let's go ahead and run StankoLover up the flagpole too, as long as LG33 doesn't mind (not that they are in any way associated).

      Let's not forget to also bite my shiny metal a** while we are at it.

      Uh oh, we are getting into comic derail here...but then we definitely need a "dry humor and why new posters need to be aware and not try it out themselves for a few weeks" FAQ entry too.


      edit - I think some btown, basement, and other assorted references might also need to be clarified before PD gets a link over at the NAMBLA website.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

        And I won't be here to see the day
        It all dries up and blows away
        I'd hang around just to see
        But they never had much use for me
        In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

          A few that come to mind that might be worth explanation:

          1.) The Core (old school posters from the Snooze)

          2.) "Going PFFL"

          3.) Sassan

          4.) 'Counting'

          5.) McKey/Satan or Satan/McKey
          "I mean, you'd walk into our dressing room and run into Mel Daniels holding a .45 -- it makes you wonder."

          Bob Netolicky

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

            Originally posted by Drewtone View Post
            5.) McKey/Satan or Satan/McKey
            "The Popeye speech" (I am what I am) should be added with McKey.

            Is there an entry for what not to say to Scot Pollard in a restroom?
            You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
            All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

            - Jimmy Buffett

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
              Is there a place for this?


              I think he's referring to Graham Marnatsi and in that case - not a redickulous thought.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                Seth explained TE's in full earlier, but here are two "rules of thumb" that, if you remember, will make you correct 99% of the time when it comes to TE:

                1. TE's are salary slots, and as such, cannot be combined with any other salaries (players) or salary slots (other exceptions) to create a larger salary slot. If you are contemplating asking a question in which the TE is used to "balance" a deal, or you in some way use the TE as a part of the plan to get a player who is making more than the TE, THEN THE ANSWER IS ALMOST CERTAINLY "NO".

                2. The TE will most likely be allowed to expire by the team holding it. In the vast majority of cases, that team will value the salary/cap/tax relief more than any player it could acquire. The Harrington deal was a very rare (perhaps even the lone) exception. Golden State allowed the $10+mm TE from the Richardson deal expire, and Denver is sure to allow the $10mm TE from the Camby deal lapse. Also, since most trades are done between two teams over the cap and are created by the 125% rule, most TE's are too small to be useful in any meaningful way.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                  Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                  Since a TE is the completion of a trade it can NOT be used to sign players. You can acquire previously existing contracts but can not create new ones (signing a free agent). Another example of an existing contract that doesn't involve a trade would be to "sign" a player on waivers as this is simply the team agreeing to take on that existing contract. Orien Greene was an example of this type of move.
                  Actually, I don't think a TE was used for Orien Greene. He was acquired under the "Minimum Player Exception". Teams can offer minimum salary contracts regardless of their cap position.

                  Also, the "Minimum Player Exception" (MPE) can play an odd role in trades, and the creation of TE's.

                  First, any team over the cap can acquire a player on an MPE without having to meet the 125% rule. For example, the Pacers could trade Josh McRoberts to the Celtics (also over the cap) for a 2nd Round Draft Pick.

                  Second, when MPE players are dealt, they count for the team sending them out, but essentially are ignored by the team recieving them when calculating the credit for the TE. In the case of the Portland trade this summer, it worked like this:

                  The Draft Picks (actually, by the time of the trade, they were the player rights to Rush & Bayless) had $0 salary cap value. Ike was scheduled to make $2.9mm, so Portland had to send out at least $2.4mm to meet the 125% rule. Jack will make $2.0, and Portland threw in McBob, scheduled to make the league min of $0.7mm. For Portland, it counted at $2.7mm. However, for the Pacers in regards to creation of the TE, McBob was ignored. Therefore, the Pacers sent out $2.9mm and only got back $2.0mm, which is why there is a $0.9mm TE created from that trade.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                    Originally posted by count55 View Post
                    Actually, I don't think a TE was used for Orien Greene. He was acquired under the "Minimum Player Exception". Teams can offer minimum salary contracts regardless of their cap position.
                    No, Greene was taken while still on waivers (from the Celtics) and therefore still with an active contract. I think it was the James Jones TE space they used to get him. He did not clear waivers and maintained his original contract when the Pacers claimed him. Greene was not making the MIN either.

                    The first year of his contract will be fully guaranteed according to the source, while the 2nd year is partially guaranteed and the 3rd year is a team option. The Celtics had to dip into their Mid-Level Exception to lock him up for the three year deal, as Greene will earn more than the NBA minimum.
                    http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._with_celtics/


                    Good stuff on the way the MPE works on the creation of TEs though, I didn't realize or think of that.



                    WAIVERS
                    For the less savvy CBA people (thus the FAQ) when a player is waived there is a time frame in which his contract still exists (48 hours in season, 1 week in the off season). If a team claims him during this period his contract comes off the original team's books and goes to the new team, basically like a trade for nothing in return (but salary relief).

                    However, if he goes through the waiver period without being claimed then the original team is still financially on the hook and the contract is "dead" otherwise. Now a team can sign a new contract with that player for whatever amount they'd like, he's a free agent at this point. The original team gets the chance for SLIGHT financial relief but typically it's not much.

                    So if you waive Tinsley no one will claim him because they'll get him much cheaper after he clears. Therefore it doesn't help the Pacers financially/cap. OTOH if you had him on a great contract that everyone considered a decent deal then he'd never get through waivers and you'd be off the hook....for a guy everyone thinks is a decent bargain (so why'd you waive him?).

                    The waivers are not a good way to dump contracts. Greene had to do with potential, problems in Boston and a moderately low deal worth taking a risk on to those not convinced that he wouldn't make it in the NBA.

                    Also to claim someone off waivers you need a CONTRACT HOLE, thus the TE for Greene. Being under the cap, having a disability exception or the player making the min also work as ways of claiming the player.

                    Finally there are rules preventing teams from resigning a waived player that they traded away. There is a 20-30 day window after the new team waives him before you can resign him. This helps prevent "one way" trading in which you essentially give up nothing to get a new player.


                    MPE (Minimum Exceptions)
                    As Count and I have alluded to already, these are an UNLIMITED resource and regardless of your cap status you can claim or deal for as many MPE deals as you want. The purpose of this exception is to ensure that teams can maintain a roster count. An MPE can be used on a waiver guy (making the MIN), trading a pick for a guy making the MIN, signing FAs for the MIN, etc.
                    Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 09-21-2008, 12:07 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                      Originally posted by LoneGranger33 View Post
                      I think he's referring to Graham Marnatsi and in that case - not a redickulous thought.
                      Just when I finally get to hating you proper, you pull me right back in. Damn you and Redd. I applaud you for maintaining "not a redickulous thought" which I'd like to see become as solid here as "going PFFL" or "that's how I live my life now".


                      Putty, I kinda felt too uncomfortable to mention BCF, and I wasn't even there. I hate to laugh at the misfortunes of others. Well, mostly.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                        Originally posted by Seth
                        Putty, I kinda felt too uncomfortable to mention BCF, and I wasn't even there. I hate to laugh at the misfortunes of others. Well, mostly.
                        Well, that marks you as more of an insider than me. I know most of the insider terms, but allusions Burlington Coat Factory still just baffle me. If there is cause for embarrassment to anyone, I apologize for mentioning it.


                        Question: Would there be any value in a section in the FAQ about statistics and data? Folks tend to hate on stats pretty strongly, sometimes without know what what the stat purports to tell. We could explain the +/- and the PER for starters.
                        And I won't be here to see the day
                        It all dries up and blows away
                        I'd hang around just to see
                        But they never had much use for me
                        In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                          Could we also perhaps limit Naptime to that section permanently?

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                            No, Greene was taken while still on waivers (from the Celtics) and therefore still with an active contract. I think it was the James Jones TE space they used to get him. He did not clear waivers and maintained his original contract when the Pacers claimed him. Greene was not making the MIN either.

                            http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_ar..._with_celtics/
                            Odd thing about Orien's contract: He was paid exactly the league minimum. However, the MPE is only available for contracts up to two years in length. The Celtics offered a three year deal (at the league min salary) to Orien, therefore, they had to use part of their MLE.

                            What I'm not sure of his how the league would've viewed Orien's contract at the time the Pacers claimed him off of waivers. With the exception of the actual establishment of the MPE, Coon's FAQ only talks about players "making the league minimum." Orien's contract, at the time we claimed him, only had two years left. In that situation, I wonder if we (or any other team) could've exercised the MPE to acquire him, or if we ended up actually needing the TE.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                              Originally posted by Putnam View Post
                              Question: Would there be any value in a section in the FAQ about statistics and data? Folks tend to hate on stats pretty strongly, sometimes without know what what the stat purports to tell. We could explain the +/- and the PER for starters.
                              Sure. Why not?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: The Official Pacers Digest F.A.Q. Thread

                                Originally posted by Hicks View Post
                                I'm not sure if you're trying to make a point or not, but racial discussions quickly enter the realm of other heated discussions that aren't allowed on PD that usually tie in with politics.
                                Fair enough, it's your forum and you're free do with it as you please.

                                But not being able to discuss issues of race on a forum dedicated to professional basketball seems awfully constrictive and unnecessary. It weakens the discussion and makes for a worse site overall.

                                I won't mention it again because it obviously makes the mods uncofortable.

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