The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

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  • #16
    Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

    Originally posted by rommie View Post

    Murray was the best opition for this team. We needed some major help in the backcourt without Jamaal. All we had was Travis Diener, Andre Owens, and Marquis Daniels playing point guard. Murray does help us.

    Larry never said Flip was going to be our guard of the future. If you don't mind seeing Diener play 40 minutes a night I guess signing Flip was a bad move. Oh well.

    Who cares if we don't get Mayo or Gordon? I do like Mayo's game but IDK about his character issues. And Gordon needs to stay in college at least another year for sure.

    I really don't see what the big deal is in signing Flip Murray. We needed help in the backcourt and he was the best opition avaliable. Sam Cassell wasn't going to sign with us and I doubt you want to trade Danny Granger for a guard. Sometimes you just gotta take what you can get and that was Flip.
    I would have completely agreed with you on this, except that the season is so far along. We have absolutely no chance whatsoever to make it past the first round of the playoffs...none. And so, for a chance at cracking that coveted 8th seed we give up the chance to select the 8th pick (or better)...sorry, but I'd just as soon have us win or lose the remaining 20 games with the group that started the season...and have more pingpong balls.


    • #17
      Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

      If Jordan can play with a hurt wrist in the NBA and score 63, then Gordon (if he's even going to be a remotely decent player in the NBA) should be a able to keep the turnovers under control and shoot at a higher percentage.


      • #18
        Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

        Originally posted by Roaming Gnome View Post
        Shade...Please, take the cream and crimson glasses off.

        Eric Gordon has not done a fine job in the last month of silencing his critics.
        I'm not denying that EJ hasn't played well of late. But he also didn't play well at some points early in the season. He's been frustratingly inconsistent.

        I'm looking more at NBA potential with EJ, and though he hasn't developed them all yet, he has the tools.

        Is he still raw? Yes. But that doesn't mean he won't develop into what he's capable of becoming.

        There are ZERO quick-fix players in this draft. Whoever you're going to take, you're going to need to develop. And with EJ's stock likely dropping right now, he could potentially be a steal where he's taken.


        • #19
          Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

          I have not seen AJ play much thanks to the Big 11 network, but everyone's sure fire #1 pick Beasley hasn't exactly come through at crunch time the past month. I'll search the SA Express News archives when i get time, but he was fading dramatically at the end of games.


          • #20
            Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

            Originally posted by GrangerRanger View Post
            If Jordan can play with a hurt wrist in the NBA and score 63, then Gordon (if he's even going to be a remotely decent player in the NBA) should be a able to keep the turnovers under control and shoot at a higher percentage.
            So let me get this straight. You just bashed Gordon because he's not like Michael Jordon? Really.


            • #21
              Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

              The only reason I like seeing Flip is for the pure fact that I don't see a glaring hole in his game other than the awful 3pt%. Then again, I don't know a lot about him and don't have FSIN to evaluate him w/ us. How's his on the ball and help defense?
              A: "I've got to wait until it gets dark to finish filming. We have one scene shot at night."

              J: (Drunk) "Come film in my pants man, it's already dark there."


              • #22
                Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                Originally posted by Mal View Post
                So let me get this straight. You just bashed Gordon because he's not like Michael Jordon? Really.
                If you're a "college superstar and sure fire NBA All Star", then yes. You should play more like Jordan than not when facing college players whom 99% of will never see an NBA jersey on their backs, and they know it.

                The funny thing is, I can remember a high turnover, bad shooting player a few years back that had wrist problems that everyone made excuses for. He had all the tools, to play PG, or SG, and if it wasn't for his bad wrist in college, would have been much better. He went high in the draft and for all the hoopla ..... you got Larry Hughes. Yay.

                Looking around the web I found this site, and this picture, thought it was hilarious.


                -- Steve --
                Last edited by Pacersfan46; 03-16-2008, 03:35 PM.


                • #23
                  Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                  Originally posted by kellogg View Post
                  For the life of me, I simply can't understand our GM's thought process in bringing in Ron Murray. This guy has been with 5 teams in 6 years, shoots 41% career (27% from the three), miserable A:TO ratio (actually less than 1 with the Pacers), and can't crack the starting lineup anywhere...and he'll be 29 this July.

                  The irony of it all is this...if he manages to help us win enough games to make the playoffs (and then of course we get knocked out by Detroit), our GM will have essentially traded a legitimate shot at OJ Mayo or Gordon for Ron Murray. Nice job once again.
                  Think about the contradiction here.

                  A) he sucks

                  B) he'll help the Pacers win their way out of a better draft pick

                  The Pacers are so bad that adding bad players is actually an improvement? Sadly there's a part of me that agrees, but not enough to think that Flip is truly impacting this situation. Whatever they win or lose they probably were going to anyway.


                  • #24
                    Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                    I didn't really compare him to Jordan. I'm just saying, that using a wrist injury as a excuss for poor play is behind me. If Jordan can score 64 (as I stated) in the NBA then Gordon should be able to play at a better level then what he has done with his in a very different level of competiton.


                    • #25
                      Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                      Originally posted by GrangerRanger View Post
                      If Jordan can score 64 (as I stated) in the NBA then Gordon should be able to play at a better level then what he has done with his in a very different level of competiton.
                      Why? Injuries are an individual thing. Some injuries aren't that bad, and some players play through them better than others.


                      • #26
                        Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                        Flip might be worth a couple more wins the rest of the season and we may move down a spot. 4 out of 5 of our last losses have been by double digits. I seriously doubt he changes any of them. Maybe he changes the outcome in a quarter of all close games. That would probably be a couple more wins this season at most. The difference between a #9 and #10 pick is not usually going to be that important...
                        Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia


                        • #27
                          Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                          Originally posted by Shade View Post
                          vs. Wisconsin (game 2): 23 points on 41.2% shooting
                          vs. Michigan State (game 1): 28 points on 60% shooting
                          vs. Michigan State (game 2): 22 points on 50% shooting

                          He's also had bad games against bad teams:

                          vs. Coppin State: 15 points on 15.4% shooting
                          vs. Chicago State: 22 points on 25% shooting
                          vs. Illinois (game 2): 19 points on 23.1% shooting
                          Please. You can cite all the exceptions you want. I'm talking about what he has averaged vs. good teams vs. what he has averaged vs. bad teams.

                          Selectively picking a handful of games is kind of like the guy who comes back from Vegas saying he won a grand. Sure, he won a grand on one hand. But he lost 3 grand on the rest.


                          • #28
                            Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                            I think Gordon will be a good pro, just not a savior. I think Ben Gordon is a good pro.

                            I think Eric Gordon has struggled, but I also think there are mitigating factors. I think the Sampson debacle created some issues. However, I think the bigger problem has been that the IU offensive scheme has been a complete trainwreck all year long, and that would impair anybody's results against the top teams. The less efficient the offense is, the more freelancing, the easier it is for good teams to shut players down.

                            Mayo, on the other hand, I have no faith in, hence the comparison to noted chucker Jamal Crawford.


                            • #29
                              Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                              I am sick of the Gordon apologists. I've already shown it: againt teams that would be considered NCAA-bound without the lesser conferences getting tourney bids, Gordon has not been good. <30% from 3 pt range and around 40% overall. You can cite a game here or there, but look at average production. I don't even care if you exclude the Dakich games. It still doesn't look good. no matter the system or how dysfunctional it is, a 20ppg scorer shouldn't be chucking up those kind of percentages.

                              About 6 weeks ago, I compared the guy to Ricky Pierce, because I think Gordon can be an offensively skilled, but a defensive and pass-limited player (w/ some work). People were complaining and calling him the second coming of Wade and Jesus Christ rolled into one. What do you see in the last 6 weeks to prove any of my assertions wrong?

                              -limited height
                              -defensively weak
                              -limited rebounding
                              -limited assists
                              -when covered/targeted, can't extend over longer defensive players to keep his 3FG% up (Note: current % when guys have keyed on him).
                              -no mid range game to keep defenders honest
                              -decent, but not great, game at the rim.

                              no matter the system, he should be able to accumulate stats in all of these areas playing against school boys if he was that athletically talented and skillful. Hughes did it. Hamilton did it. Allen did it. Arenas even did it.

                              Complain about Mayo all you want, but compare Mayo's FG% against good teams to Gordon's before doing it. Compare his 3pt% to Gordon's vs. Good teams before doing it. Consider he gets more boards a game, and his Ast/TO ratio is at least 1:1. Who is the chucker?
                              Last edited by ChicagoPacer; 03-17-2008, 08:56 PM.


                              • #30
                                Re: Trading Gorden or OJ Mayo for Ron Murray

                                Murray's actually better than I expected. He had some nice passes today, and outplayed Diener by a pretty large margin.
                                This space for rent.