Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3239478

    Grizzlies head coach Marc Iavaroni has heard the critics lambasting Memphis' management for the Pau Gasol trade to the Lakers, most notably the strong words from San Antonio coach Gregg Popovich. He just chooses to ignore them.

    "[Popovich is] a great coach and they do a good job there," Iavaroni told the Memphis Commercial Appeal. "I don't read into anyone else's comments. That's just the nature of the league. People have a right to their opinion. We're just taking care of our best interests."
    Popovich slammed Memphis for a trade that many around the NBA thought favored the Lakers.

    "What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," Popovich told SI.com. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense (i.e. damage the interests of the Spurs). I just wish I had been on a trade committee that oversees NBA trades. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

    In the deal, Memphis acquired Kwame Brown and his expiring $9 million contract, rookie Javaris Crittenton, the rights to Marc Gasol and first-round picks in 2008 and 2010.

    As a result of the trade, the Grizzlies could have as much as $17 million available under the salary cap that could help them sign free agents over the summer.

    --------------

    This is annoying, Popovich couldn't care less about Memphis, he's just mad that the Lakers are going to challenge the perenially boring Spurs for the title this year. That is, if the Spurs can even make a serious push for the title, their antique collection of players is continuing to age and they're third in their division. If this had happened between Memphis and, say, some mediocre team in the Eastern Conference, you wouldn't be hearing a word out of Popovich.

    Between all this and the article about teams making trades to counteract Duncan is making me root for LA and the Suns and root against the Spurs. These trades were made to compete with teams with comparable or better records than the Spurs such as Denver, Utah, Dallas, and New Orleans just as much as they were made to compete with the SAS. It's not all about SAS in the West right now, defending champs or not.

  • #2
    Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

    i didnt think it wuz that one sided the grizzlies get javaris and 2 1st rounds picks along with being able to sign a good free agent for gasol who didnt wanna be there neway

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

      Regardless of the motivation, the fact that deals are made where one team gets a great deal of basketball value because the other team is looking purely for financial relief does alter the competitive landscape in the NBA, and in a way I don't particularly like.

      We don't have to look far from home to know that had Detroit not been able to pick up Rasheed for a bag of stale popcorn and a flat diet coke, that our history over the last four years could've been significantly different.

      Had Rasheed finished the year in Atlanta, then it likely would've been us facing the injured and fractured Lakers. We could've been the defending champion in Auburn Hills that night, and it's likely that the level of animosity between the two teams would not have approached the levels they were at when the Brawl occurred. Would the brawl have ever occurred, at all?

      Now, obviously that's idle speculation, and I'm not blaming the brawl and the subsequent Pacer meltdown on the Rasheed deal. Dumars was simply in a position to make a smart move and taking advantage of the kind of odd rules created by salary caps, luxury taxes, etc.

      However, there will always be something that feels a little off to me when the purpose of both teams isn't to improve their own play on the floor. Memphis clearly was dumping salary, for virtually no reasonable return, for non-basketball reasons. It harkens back to the bad old days of Ted Stepien in Cleveland, and yes, Sam Nassi here in Indy.

      I recognize the business aspect of the sport, but I do wish there were some way to prevent grossly uneven trades where one team clearly looking to just save money at the expense of quality of play.

      It's my concern that the Pacers organization will be accused of the same thing in the not-too-distant future. I'll understand making financial moves, to some degree, but if we just start dumping salary with no real plan, I'll start having flashbacks to the early '80's.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

        Originally posted by pacers_1 View Post
        i didnt think it wuz that one sided the grizzlies get javaris and 2 1st rounds picks along with being able to sign a good free agent for gasol who didnt wanna be there neway
        Considering that the 1st rounders will likely be late first rounders, and that Javaris is little more than an interesting prospect at this point, the statistically most likely outcome of this deal is that they traded arguably the most productive player in their franchise's history for three players that will be rotational players, and maybe no starters.

        Take a look at the history of 1st round picks...most of them bust. There is certainly value in the opportunity, but many get too enamored of the potential of guys whose only attribute is that they haven't had a chance to prove that they suck, yet.

        As far as free agents go, who are they targeting? The Griz have been on the market for a while, and this move was made for strictly financial reasons.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

          Where was Pop's ritious indignation when Detroit obtains Rasheed Wallace from Boston for a left over cup of beer and some stale popcorn?
          Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

            Originally posted by count55 View Post
            Considering that the 1st rounders will likely be late first rounders, and that Javaris is little more than an interesting prospect at this point, the statistically most likely outcome of this deal is that they traded arguably the most productive player in their franchise's history for three players that will be rotational players, and maybe no starters.

            Take a look at the history of 1st round picks...most of them bust. There is certainly value in the opportunity, but many get too enamored of the potential of guys whose only attribute is that they haven't had a chance to prove that they suck, yet.

            As far as free agents go, who are they targeting? The Griz have been on the market for a while, and this move was made for strictly financial reasons.
            I'm not saying dumping salary is a good thing, but it seems to be something that occurs in some cyclical fashion with a lot of small market teams. Cleveland and Indiana both dumped salary at one point in time, as you mentioned. But both of the teams made the NBA Finals 15-20 years later and both teams were/are contenders for long periods of time as well. I don't think Memphis will be doing this forever, it's just cyclical.

            Memphis is a team that doesn't get a ton of revenue compared to larger market teams, and to be paying someone like Gasol so much money when he wasn't really going to deliver much in terms of championships or deep playoffs runs is bad for business. Gasol is alright, but he's overpaid and when are a small market team is struggling with an overpaid player who is disliked by a majority of the fanbase for being soft, something has to give. Gasol is not a proven winner and is best used as a second or third option on a team like the Lakers who can afford to pay him and have a proven leader like Kobe.

            True, a lot of first round picks bust, but just about every good NBA player was drafted in the first round as well. Memphis has four picks in the next three first rounds right now, and assuming they have 3 second round picks, that's seven picks. I'd like my odds that at least one of these players turns out to be a fairly decent starter if not better. How else are you going to find good young talent except by drafting it? They have some nice young talent on that team right now and if they are pleasantly surprised by one of these seven picks, they'll be okay.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

              When I saw this quote in the local paper yesterday I wondered how it would be taken. The local writer added a little more to it, and it probably was given with a hint of sarcasm since Pop has never been one to blame anyone else for his team not succeeding.

              "All those opposed: Popovich is apparently not a fan of the trade last week that sent Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers.

              In return for Gasol, a former All-Star, the Grizzlies received guard Javaris Crittenton and former first-round choice Kwame Brown, generally regarded as a draft bust, as well as two future first-round selections.

              “The L.A. move is great for L.A.,” Popovich said. “What they were thinking in Memphis is beyond comprehension.”

              Speculation abounds that Memphis owner Michael Heisley pushed the move to cut salary in anticipation of selling the team.

              “There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense,” Popovich said, tongue planted firmly in cheek. "

              At the bottom of the story at the link below.

              http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....a3d3fe36.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                Originally posted by indygeezer View Post
                Where was Pop's ritious indignation when Detroit obtains Rasheed Wallace from Boston for a left over cup of beer and some stale popcorn?
                Hey now, don't leave out the bag of Cheeto's.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                  Originally posted by SycamoreKen View Post
                  “There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense,” Popovich said, tongue planted firmly in cheek.
                  That's how I took it.

                  And that's how they made it sound when reading it aloud on ABC during the Spurs/Cs game earlier.

                  And after the "trade committee" remark he also added "And I should be on it," according to the ABC folk.

                  This all sounds similar to the Duncan comment after the Shaq deal when he was asked if he was honered that all these WC teams were "loading" up to deal with him and the Spurs. He was like “I'm not honored in any way...I'm a little pissed off. Maybe I should have missed a couple more shots.”

                  Pop and Timmy are both pretty well-known for their dry, sardonic senses of humor and I think that's all this is.
                  Read my Pacers blog:
                  8points9seconds.com

                  Follow my twitter:

                  @8pts9secs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                    Originally posted by indygeezer View Post
                    Where was Pop's ritious indignation when Detroit obtains Rasheed Wallace from Boston for a left over cup of beer and some stale popcorn?
                    They didn't get Rasheed from Boston... he was traded to the Hawks then sent to Detroit.... and maybe this is why Pop was so pissed off:

                    Lakers were the only team made aware of Gasol's availability
                    Sunday, Feb 10, 2008 7:32 am EST

                    New York Post columnist Peter Vecsey called the deal that sent Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers "the Memphis Grizzlies' tax-deductible donation to the Lakers.''

                    Vecsey reported that other than the Lakers not a single team was approached regarding Gasol's manifest availability. Had they been, there's every reason to believe the Grizzlies could've gleaned more. At the very least, there's no way Gasol should've been traded for next to nothing except promises of something to come unless Brian Cardinal's contract ($6.3M/$6.7M after this year) was part of the outgoing package.

                    Guaranteed, Pat Riley would've said "yes" to that in a heartbeat, as evidenced by the Shaq deal. Phoenix insisted Miami assume Marcus Banks' remaining three ($4.2M/$4.55M/$4.847M) years after this one. I assure you, that would've been a Steve Kerr stipulation no matter where Shawn Marion wound up.

                    Source: New York Post


                    THAT'S RIGHT NO ONE ELSE.... NOT THE SPURS NOT THE PACERS NO ONE BUT THE FREAKING LAKERS!!!!
                    Last edited by SamBear; 02-10-2008, 07:45 PM.
                    12/27/2005 at Spurs - SamBear - 3

                    1/2/2008 vs Memphis - SamBear - 19


                    4/9/2014 - Luis Scola also recorded a season high with 24 points and Evan Turner added 23 for Indiana.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                      Originally posted by SamBear View Post
                      THAT'S RIGHT NO ONE ELSE.... NOT THE SPURS NOT THE PACERS NO ONE BUT THE FREAKING LAKERS!!!!
                      one would think having a couple larry o'brien's would ease the suffering over not being offered gasol.
                      This is the darkest timeline.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                        That's not the point... but oh well.
                        12/27/2005 at Spurs - SamBear - 3

                        1/2/2008 vs Memphis - SamBear - 19


                        4/9/2014 - Luis Scola also recorded a season high with 24 points and Evan Turner added 23 for Indiana.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                          The Spurs could not have even matched what LA offered.

                          It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                          Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                          Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                          NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                            Chris Wallace was on Chad Ford's "Daily Dish" after the trade and said that LA was his first choice. He approached Kupchak specifically because they had the biggest expiring available in Kwame (not sure that's true, but it's what he said), two young prospects they wanted (JC Superstar and Mark Gasol), and future picks available.

                            He said the Lakers could give them flexibility and round first round picks (two of the first-rounders being JC and Gasol, who he said would clearly be a first rounder in this upcoming draft if he hadn't already been taken) and no other team could offer something similar.
                            Last edited by JayRedd; 02-10-2008, 10:55 PM.
                            Read my Pacers blog:
                            8points9seconds.com

                            Follow my twitter:

                            @8pts9secs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Cry Me A River: Popovich blasts the Gasol trade

                              he's right about that. I don't see another team dealing what amounts to three 1st rounders, plus expiring contracts.

                              Obviously, he's being asked to slice payroll, not get the best players available. he did the best he could. The rest is sour grapes.

                              It wasn't about being the team everyone loved, it was about beating the teams everyone else loved.

                              Division Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 1989, 1990, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
                              Conference Champions 1955, 1956, 1988, 2005
                              NBA Champions 1989, 1990, 2004

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X