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Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

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  • #16
    Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

    Originally posted by MagicRat View Post
    I don't appreciate the fracturiousness of your comment.......
    Wow.......a WORD OF THE DAY Candidate

    fracturiousness......a measure of the ability to fracture.
    Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

      Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
      Suspension - not paid for the game

      Inactive - paid

      The fact that he was asked not to attend the game - that speaks volumes to me. That begs the question - why did Jim tell JT not to attend the game. It isn't like it is a road game. Logic would tell us, he probably had some type of disagreement with JT, and thought it was better that he stay away for a day, clear his head.

      Peck, I don't see what all the fuss is about. If he got paid for the game then he was not suspended, although I siuppose a team could and has suspended a player with pay - I think they did that with Artest in '03.

      I don't understand why a number of you are using this against O'Brien. Regardless of anything, he disciplined Tinsley - isn't that what everyone has wanted for years. And now that we have a coach willing to discipline a player, everyone is complaining about the exact laguage used. I really don't understand it. Look at the big picture.

      Well said..the team did the right thing

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

        Originally posted by indygeezer View Post
        How about Tinsley....afterall if he hadn't acted up, this would be a non-issue.
        That's true, but it is Tinsley we're talking about!

        I've had the thought several years in a row now that he does something every year at this time to hurt his trade value so the Pacers can't trade him. Then again I think . . . well I was reading Chad Ford's chat this morning on ESPN, and the following was posted.

        ----------
        Kenny (Indiana): What is Larry Bird going to do in Indiana? or do we still have to live w/ Dunleavy and Granger in the starting lineup together in which 1 will be playing out of positin at SG.

        Chad Ford: They're in limbo. They're a solid team, but aren't going to scare anyone on any given night. They're defense has been awful. To me the Pacers have always hinged on Tinsley. When he's healthy and in the zone, they are tough to beat. When he's injured (which seems to be all the time) or out of the zone (which also happens on a regular basis) they tank. I've felt for the longest time ... he's the guy you've got to replace. You can't have such inconsistency from your floor leader.
        ----------

        I agree! I don't think we will go anywhere until we get rid of Tins. I think he and his life style are a real problem. It took the Blazers years to shed the JailBlazers nickname, because there was always some rotten apples left.

        Finally they decided to just go after good character guys and look what's happened! That's what I want the Pacers to do!

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

          Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
          That's true, but it is Tinsley we're talking about!

          I've had the thought several years in a row now that he does something every year at this time to hurt his trade value so the Pacers can't trade him. Then again I think . . . well I was reading Chad Ford's chat this morning on ESPN, and the following was posted.

          ----------
          Kenny (Indiana): What is Larry Bird going to do in Indiana? or do we still have to live w/ Dunleavy and Granger in the starting lineup together in which 1 will be playing out of positin at SG.

          Chad Ford: They're in limbo. They're a solid team, but aren't going to scare anyone on any given night. They're defense has been awful. To me the Pacers have always hinged on Tinsley. When he's healthy and in the zone, they are tough to beat. When he's injured (which seems to be all the time) or out of the zone (which also happens on a regular basis) they tank. I've felt for the longest time ... he's the guy you've got to replace. You can't have such inconsistency from your floor leader.
          ----------

          I agree! I don't think we will go anywhere until we get rid of Tins. I think he and his life style are a real problem. It took the Blazers years to shed the JailBlazers nickname, because there was always some rotten apples left.

          Finally they decided to just go after good character guys and look what's happened! That's what I want the Pacers to do
          !

          We agree on something!
          Ever notice how friendly folks are at a shootin' range??.

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          • #20
            Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

            Originally posted by Will Galen View Post

            Portland . . . decided to just go after good character guys and look what's happened! That's what I want the Pacers to do!
            I'm glad to see this statement. Now, Will, the question is who are the good character guys, and who needs to go. I'm just trying to encourage your point. I agree that this needs to happen. And it means putting character over talent and turning a deaf ear to the critics.

            Who, then, are the people who need to go because of character.

            Tinsley? Absolutely. He's exhibit A
            Harrison? Bye, bye, Hulk.


            Now it gets tougher.

            Daniels? He's facing charges after 8 Seconds (Is that reason enough?)
            O'Neal? He was charged for the brawl (Is that reason enough?)
            Williams? Driving charges and drugs last Fall (Is that reason enough?)

            Any more?

            Rush? Bernie Bickerstaff dumped him, but I think that issue is in the past.
            Foster? Uttered "That's good-*** defense" during a game. think of the children. (I'm kidding.)
            And I won't be here to see the day
            It all dries up and blows away
            I'd hang around just to see
            But they never had much use for me
            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

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            • #21
              Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

              Originally posted by Putnam View Post
              Foster? Uttered "That's good-*** defense" during a game.
              That's just good-*** character.
              Word on the street is he doesn't want your money, he only wants to please your ears...
              Bum in Berlin on Myspace

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              • #22
                Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                Who do you think told Jackson? Someone that knows more than anyone on here, that's for sure, and probably Tinsley.

                Obviously they had some issue at the film session and that turned into a pretty standard "suspended with pay" situation. I agree with Peck that JOB tried to downplay it just like Rick used to do, if anything it's for the player's benefit (their rep/image).

                It came out and JOB/TPTB are trying to spin out of an awkward situation.

                And blaming Jackson is just naive (or more likely biased). When he said this how in the world does he know what the official post-game explanation from TPTB is? For all he knows at that point is that this has happened and has been publically addressed in the pre-game presser.

                You guys act like he got up the next day, read the paper and said "I'm not going to let them get away with this, my boy was unfairly suspended." That's not what happened. He answered a question as though the suspension was already a known issue.

                If that's the case then O'B isn't lying about the result.
                Technically, but come on, we're adults here. And regardless there is "asked to stay home" due to injury and due to disagreement. He's still denying the disagreement and if that's true then he is lying/spinning.
                Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 01-18-2008, 12:44 PM.

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                • #23
                  Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                  Originally posted by Putnam View Post

                  Any more?
                  I read in the paper that Granger wears purple suits. It can't be good for a Pacer to be looked at by children as a big grape.

                  (Not that's there's anything wrong with that)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post

                    And blaming Jackson is just naive (or more likely biased). When he said this how in the world does he know what the official post-game explanation from TPTB is? For all he knows at that point is that this has happened and has been publically addressed in the pre-game presser.
                    Online sites were already saying Tins was out because of his knee. If I knew it hours before the game, so did Jackson.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                      "Consider the source." All that implies is that Jackson is not a reliable or authoritative source for information about the Pacers.
                      But again were not kids, we all know that is a common phrase with a definite implication behind it. It's not as simple as "they don't know our info", it carries the weight of the person being undependable due to character issues.

                      You use it to attack the person bringing the information to light as a means of defense for yourself.

                      "Jose Conseco said you did steriods with him McGwire."
                      "Yeah, but consider the source."

                      That doesn't mean "how would he know", that means "he's the type to make crap up for reasons of attention/stirring trouble".

                      And JOB didn't even coach Jackson, so consider HIS source on Jackson as a person.

                      They are throwing Jack under the bus because they know you guys will bite on it due to the outrageous dislike of him. But the story that came out cited MULTIPLE sources, not just Jackson, and again Jack didn't present it in a stirring the pot forum. Tinsley wasn't there, he mentioned it and the reason he thought everyone knew at that point. Why wouldn't they know if it was presented to him as common knowledge? You assume he spoke with someone that knew, maybe Tins, and that discussion probably was more like "he told him/me to sit out a game", "he/I got suspended for tonight, it was BS", etc without some follow-up of "but the official story is that he's/I'm just injured so keep it cool tonight if anyone asks".

                      It's just common sense.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                        Originally posted by Will Galen View Post
                        Online sites were already saying Tins was out because of his knee. If I knew it hours before the game, so did Jackson.
                        See I disagree with this because he isn't living the schedule we are. Is Jack surfing the net for NBA news 3 hours before a game? I'm not saying he couldn't be, but at some point aren't you eating, getting ready for the game, etc. It's not like any of these players are just surfing the net right up until game time.

                        Sure Agent Zero goes to online poker at halftime, but everyone thinks that's nuts. And I'm not saying he couldn't find out, I'm saying that it's hardly obvious that he did.


                        How Jackson presented it was off the cuff and casual. Maybe he was sticking up for Tinsley, but if that's the case then considering the source it makes what he said effectively the truth, barring spins on technicality.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                          Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post

                          It's just common sense.

                          It's also common sense that Jackson would pile on the Pacers if he got the chance.

                          And I'm not piling on. I think the Pacers made mistakes in trading Jackson and Artest the way they did. I like both guys.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                            See I disagree with this because he isn't living the schedule we are. Is Jack surfing the net for NBA news 3 hours before a game? I'm not saying he couldn't be, but at some point aren't you eating, getting ready for the game, etc. It's not like any of these players are just surfing the net right up until game time.

                            Sure Agent Zero goes to online poker at halftime, but everyone thinks that's nuts. And I'm not saying he couldn't find out, I'm saying that it's hardly obvious that he did.


                            How Jackson presented it was off the cuff and casual. Maybe he was sticking up for Tinsley, but if that's the case then considering the source it makes what he said effectively the truth, barring spins on technicality.
                            I didn't make my point clear. If online sites knew Tins was out, then the Warriors knew he was out. Thus Jack as a member of the Warriors would know he was out, and why.

                            I still think everyone is making a big deal out of nothing, and I don't hold with lying. (as the Pacers have been accused of doing)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                              I think someone should write a dissertation comparing and contrasting the definitions of suspension versus deactivation, and how these distinctions are interpretted by the common fan in Indiana. It really is a fascinating subject.
                              Read my Pacers blog:
                              8points9seconds.com

                              Follow my twitter:

                              @8pts9secs

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                              • #30
                                Re: Today's official story from O'Brien is that Jamaal was

                                [QUOTE=Putnam;644803]What's the big scandal, Peck?

                                First of all there is no big scandal, just a very poor lack of judgement and character IMO.

                                I was totally with Uncle Buck at the beginning of yesterday when we first started hearing this.

                                Not telling everyone was no big deal to me. I completley understood why they would want to keep private and frankly I didn't care.

                                However once the story started to be told, the constant denials and then the changing of the story made me start to question the entire thing. Then by the time I listened to the coach's radio show and then read this article I was in the Shade & Hicks camp of "why are you lying to us".

                                Suspended, de-activated, told not to come, whatever. As Seth has already appropriatley said were all adults here so come on. This is one of those statement where we have to determine what the word "Is" is.

                                And no I'm sorry but I will agree to adamantly disagree with you over his slap at Jackson.

                                How about this.

                                Putnam say's "O'Brien did not call Jackson a liar, or even imply that he is a liar."

                                Peck's retort to this is: "consider the source".

                                Does that mean that all I am saying about you is that you are just not a reliable source when it comes to information regarding the team? Or am I saying that what you have to say is not worth paying attention to because you either are a liar or spreader of unintential false truths?

                                Personally I'd think it was the latter and not the former.

                                His retort to talking about the suspension was to call out a player on another team by name and IMO degrading him.

                                But if you want to disagree that is your poragative.

                                Now to Will.

                                I know you want your news filtered through the cloak of Pacers positive spin, however I hate to break this to you.

                                The first internet site to even bring this up was....

                                pacers.com

                                Now you can say, and I would agree, that he might have known that Wells was going to run with it. But still he didn't have to cover it at all.

                                Also, this is not to Will, one other problem here IMO.

                                We are now saying de-activated. At first it was he couldn't play because he was injured. Now it is he is de-activated because the coach can.

                                Right there is a change of story and frankly would have been an easy out for O'Brien right there.

                                All he would have had to say was that he de-activated him and gave him permission to miss the game and that this was an all internal matter & then refuse to comment beyond that.

                                But the fact that he had to go so far above and beyond to try and make Well's and Jackson out to be liars is my problem.

                                Well that and how he threw away the Pheonix game.


                                Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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