The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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  • Attendance

    I'm looking at and it says we are 28th in attendance, and are filling Conseco to just 68% capacity.

    Obviously Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson had to go. That is obvious. But there is definitely something far more at stake here than those 2 guys. Those 2 so called troublemakers are long gone and the attendance is worse than it has been in many many years. This team has severe problems with its fan base right now. This is pretty alarming actually.

    What do you guys think is going on? I realize Indianapolis is a tiny market, but it was also a tiny market years ago when people were going to games. For some reason, this team has totally lost touch with the area. This pains me.

  • #2
    Re: Attendance

    Because it's easier to lose a fan base than to build one.

    The "product" has been driving away fans for a while. It will take some time to win them back.
    You're caught up in the Internet / you think it's such a great asset / but you're wrong, wrong, wrong
    All that fiber optic gear / still cannot take away the fear / like an island song

    - Jimmy Buffett


    • #3
      Re: Attendance

      Originally posted by Doug View Post
      Because it's easier to lose a fan base than to build one.

      The "product" has been driving away fans for a while. It will take some time to win them back.
      Yep. People have also mentioned before that Indy can't really support two professional franchises. Right now the city is fully supporting the Colts.

      Of course, it doesn't help that the Pacers missed the playoffs and are hovering around .500.

      Yeah, ranking 28th is pretty bad. Maybe what Donnie (allegedly) believes is true; maybe the Pacers need to keep doing well and making the playoffs or else the fans will leave, which would ultimately lead to the Pacers leaving Indy.


      • #4
        Re: Attendance

        The reputational damage has already been done. It took several years to tarnish.

        And it will take several years to repair.
        Read my Pacers blog:

        Follow my twitter:



        • #5
          Re: Attendance

          Originally posted by Adam1987 View Post
          we are 28th in attendance.

          That's really quite a shame considering the fact that we were supposed to be where the bulls are at right now and despite things like leading the league in rebounds per game and fewest points in the paint people aren't showing up.

          I honestly wish I lived closer to Indy i'd go for the $10 games, the thing that sucks though is gas prices in recent years have been ridiculous it's about 1 - 1.5 hour drive to Indy from where i'm at and not only that but parking is the biggest rip off in indy. You make a trip down paying only $10 for a game ticket than you add cost of gas is probably another $10 and then parking is another $10-$20. If you want to eat down there it's just another added cost. So for a game where the townies paid about $10 the out of towners are paying around $40-$50 for it through added costs. I honestly think there are plenty of Pacers/Basketball fans in general that would like to watch the Pacers or just a good game of basketball, but few outside of Indianapolis that have the time and money to actually make it to the games. I don't know about the financial situation of the state but I can assure you the economy isn't exactly booming around here.


          • #6
            Re: Attendance

            First of all, Indianapolis is the 12th largest city in the United States. Secondly, this talk about high prices for parking? It cost as little as $2 dollars to park in the Conseco Fieldhouse parking garage. The real problem with Indiana sports fans is they are fickle. They are outraged by the behavior of a few Pacer players? They are outraged because the team hasn't been that great for the last few years. Meanwhile, the Pacers have lost their marquee player Reggie Miller, JO's had recent battles with health issues, Ron Artest was traded, Al Left twice. The coach went from Larry Legend, to IU and NBA great Isiah Thomas, to coach of the year Rick Carlise to Jim O'Brien? The attendance levels started to dwindle late last season when they started to suck.

            '02-'03 16,352
            '03-'04 16,556
            '04-'05 16,994
            '05-'06 16,179
            '06-'07 15,359
            '07-'08 12,517

            They have no marketable players, everybody dwells on the negative and ultimately they have too much player turnover. Most people aren't exactly like us. They don't know every player in the NBA. It's become confusing. Ron Artest, Al Harrington, Reggie Miller, Austin Croshere, Scot Pollard, Stephen Jackson, Anthony Johnson, Fred Jones, Peja Stojakovic, Sarunus Jasikevicius & Darrell Armstrong have turned into Mike Dunleavy Jr., Troy Murphy, Ike Diogu, Travis Diener, Marquis Daniels, Kareem Rush, Shawne Williams, David Harrison & Danny Granger. Only Jamaal, JO and Foster have been the constants, one is a role player and the other two are love/hate players at this point.
            I'm in these bands
            The Humans
            Dr. Goldfoot
            The Bar Brawlers


            • #7
              Re: Attendance

              Originally posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
              Secondly, this talk about high prices for parking? It cost as little as $2 dollars to park in the Conseco Fieldhouse parking garage.
              If that's the case I've never knew about it, i've just drove around and tried to find an open lot and a reasonably priced one but ones that are within like an 8 block radius seem to start out at like 8-10 dollars and go up after a few hours quite a bit. It could also have been that the games I have went to the lot was full.


              • #8
                Re: Attendance

                There's plenty of cheap parking in the downtown area. The whole "Event" parking thing is a joke. You can find $3 dollar parking on Sunday's for Colts games, too.
                I'm in these bands
                The Humans
                Dr. Goldfoot
                The Bar Brawlers


                • #9
                  Re: Attendance

                  Good to know, I think the parking garages I can remember staying in are the ones around the mall across from the convention center or just off the side from the hotels.


                  • #10
                    Re: Attendance

                    Originally posted by Dr. Goldfoot View Post
                    First of all, Indianapolis is the 12th largest city in the United States.
                    I seriously hope you're not getting that confused with market size. Please don't tell me you think that Indianapolis is the 12th largest market in the United States.

                    Indianapolis is the 12th largest *city* and only is because it "cheats" and counts all of Marion county. Only a handful of cities (Louisville, Nashville) do that.

                    For example, Chicago has a city population of 2,873,321. But if it "cheated" like Indy and consolidated it's government with the county and counted all of Cook County as it's city population, it would be 5,288,655!

                    City pop is only city limits. And it is a completely useless way to judge how large a market is. Indianapolis as the 12th largest city doesn't include important cities such as Greenwood or Carmel. But Indianapolis as the 33rd largest metropolitan area includes those cities, and is the most important way to judge the size of Indy or any other city.

                    Indianapolis is 13th largest "city" with 785,597. Miami is 43rd with 408,043. See how misleading that is? Does anyone in their right mind consider Indianapolis to be a bigger place than freaking Miami, Florida? No way. That 408,043 doesn't include South Beach, Miami Beach. The Miami metro area is 7th largest in the US, compared to Indy at 33rd. Boston and Atlanta are also smaller "cities" than Indianapolis but have metro areas that make Indy seem absolutely tiny.


                    A good quote from that page "For example, Jacksonville, Florida has a population greater than both Boston and Washington. But Boston and Washington are surrounded by many more suburbs which make their metropolitan area populations much greater than Jacksonville's. Because the metropolitan population is much greater in those cities, there is more dense settlement which leads to more cultural institutions, greater transportation options, and more entertainment attractions."

                    I think of Indianapolis as being the 33rd largest market or area in the United States. To call it 12th largest is completely misleading.


                    • #11
                      Re: Attendance

                      There are many factors. You could blame it on the events that have unfolded over the last few season..on and off the court. Then you have the teams record..etc

                      slowly but surely this group of players is starting to bring in some of the casual fans. The more games we win the more they will come back.

                      No matter what, im still here with the Pacers
                      If you havin' depth problems, I feel bad for you son; I got 99 problems but a bench ain't one! - Hicks


                      • #12
                        Re: Attendance

                        The core fans will always be there.

                        Now that the team is struggling the corporate & casual fans are finding other ways to spend their money.

                        Once we win a couple playoff series we'll start to see the corporate & casual fan return.


                        • #13
                          Re: Attendance

                          It could also be a confirmation that the marketing strategy chosen has failed miserably.

                          As JoB said recently; this is a player's league, yet the Pacers choose to "sell" the coach.
                          No matter the "rep" of the players,without the living highlight adds you will not sell the seats.

                          Let's face it, even corporate, despite anything, would you want a picture of you with JoB on the wall in your boardroom, or with JO?

                          Which one of the two makes the most impression to a visitor?

                          That and attendance yearly averages are always skewed in Indy due to Colts season, 2 away games for them in a row might top-up the attendance a bit, once NFL season ends attendance will rise somewhat as well.
                          So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

                          If you've done 6 impossible things today?
                          Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!


                          • #14
                            Re: Attendance

                            I was surprised to see that Sacramento had fallen off that much. I realize their team is worse than ours, but I thought they had enough good will built up woth their fans that it would last a couple of seasons.

                            The Hornets need to get out of New Orleans as soon as they can. The team has been gone for two seasons and they are averaging less than 11,500 - that is pretty sad.

                            The Hawks must be giving a ton of tickets away


                            • #15
                              Re: Attendance

                              If I were GSW I would try my hardest to get Yi or Yao.

                              San Fran is made up of 19.6% Chinese
                              Oakland is made up of 8% chinese

                              They would no doubt be number one on that list. And those numbers do not account for illegals.

                              Last edited by Major Cold; 12-06-2007, 10:03 AM. Reason: forgot link