Announcement

Collapse

The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
See more
See less

Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post

    Compared to last year most of this team looks 100% the same.
    ...
    The only things I saw noticably better is top of the arc passing and some mid-clock rotation passing. They moved the ball out of trouble better, they started a lot of plays off with move weaving action out top as well, and a bit livlier off the ball movement also.
    In the end it didn't really get them any earlier shots and they basically never really got a full transition game going.
    ...
    The best parts of the team right now are the same parts that were best last year.
    ...
    And they still gave up a boatload of EARLY, EASY scores. You might be fine with that but I'd be shocked if JOB was. This roster has a long way to go.
    I disagree with most of your post. I think comparing them to Seattle confuses the issue. That is, Seattle could look like the Suns as far as I'm concerned and that would not change the fact the Pacers look and play nothing like they did last year. Also, whether the Pacers are better is not the point. Seattle and Indiana could both stink right now, but that does not change the fact the Pacers look and play nothing like they did last year.

    For example, although JO had some post-ups, the context was usually very different. That is, there was no throw it into JO going on where everyone else just stands with their hands on their hips. There was no Jamaal Tinsley Rucker Park expedition. Instead, we had a solid shooter playing at PG a good part of the evening. We had another guy playing PG who played tough man defense and was at least a competent scoring threat. We had neither of those at PG last year. We had other guys on the floor like Kareem Rush and Shawne Williams who...whether they hit their shots or not...were capable of an accurate shot. I understand this is just preseason, but Mike Dunleavy does not look like the same player. Shawne Williams looks like a more mature player...pulling down 10 boards and looking more comfortable. ....and the ball movement resembled nothing I have seen in the last few years. Not saying that's good, but it certainly looked nothing like last year.
    Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

      Originally posted by Tom White View Post
      Now ABA, this is at least the second thread in which you have asked this question. Are you maybe trying to make a point?

      They say that sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.



      You just hope its not one of yours!
      Yes I realize this is the second thread I just wanted confirmation from multiple sources that Larry Bird did, indeed, sign Travis Diener.
      The best exercise of the human heart is reaching down and picking someone else up.

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

        Originally posted by Tom White View Post
        You just hope its not one of yours!
        This space for rent.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

          Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
          As for Diener, there are a couple reasons he's better than Sarunas. Yes, they are both good shooters.
          Sarunas made his reputation as a shooter in FIBA, not the NBA. He's not a "good" shooter at the NBA level. He's a career 35% from 3. That's not terrible, but certainly not great. You're better off with Danny taking the three than Sarunas.

          You can live as an NBA point guard with a 35% accuracy, but you've got to bring some other skills to the party. Sarunas couldn't defend, couldn't advance the ball, couldn't drive, and complained when he played off guard. There's a reason he's no longer in the NBA.
          This space for rent.

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

            Okay I have a few things I wouold like to point out
            #1. Tinsley was wearing a tie. Last year when tinsley was out he would wear a white t-shirt and a suit jacket.
            #2. The passing was great, I especially like the cross court passes we made last night.
            #3.Hustle, we dove for loose balls, got the offensive boards, and really played team defense.
            #4. Troy Played D. I am excited to see the pacers and Pistons.
            #5.Love the 3 pt accuracy, we are better than I expected.
            #6. Not very many dunks at all.

            yeah this is preseason but it is a good sign

            plus I will say right now we might just have
            MIP of the leauge in Diener
            COY in Obrien
            and D 1 team O'Neal
            Allstars O'Neal and Granger
            3pt contest Diener
            Passion, Pride, Playoffs, Pacers

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

              Originally posted by Anthem View Post
              Sarunas made his reputation as a shooter in FIBA, not the NBA. He's not a "good" shooter at the NBA level. He's a career 35% from 3. That's not terrible, but certainly not great. You're better off with Danny taking the three than Sarunas.

              You can live as an NBA point guard with a 35% accuracy, but you've got to bring some other skills to the party. Sarunas couldn't defend, couldn't advance the ball, couldn't drive, and complained when he played off guard. There's a reason he's no longer in the NBA.
              Saras has many, many flaws to his game, but shooting is not one of them.

              ...and I didn't say Saras is a great shooter, but I certainly think he still qualifies as a good shooter at the NBA level. First, he hit 92.2% from the free throw line last year as a Pacer. In fact, he actually does qualify as great from the line with a career % of nearly 91%.

              As for 3's, he hit 36.4% his rookie year and 37.2% his second year as a Pacer. No, that's not great, but it qualifies as good notwithstanding all the other flaws to his game...particularly when you compare him to Tinsley who is completely left open and cannot even shoot that well.
              Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                Originally posted by pianoman View Post
                Allstars O'Neal and Granger
                Hey, I can chug Kool-aid with the best of them, but there's no way Granger gets an all-star nod this year. Heck, with Pierce playing forward and Garnett in the East, JO might not get the nod unless he's at center.

                That doesn't mean Danny can't have a great year. But the East is`loaded at forward.
                This space for rent.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                  Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                  Hey, I can chug Kool-aid with the best of them, but there's no way Granger gets an all-star nod this year. Heck, with Pierce playing forward and Garnett in the East, JO might not get the nod unless he's at center.

                  That doesn't mean Danny can't have a great year. But the East is`loaded at forward.
                  Yes, JO just moved down a notch in the EC with Chris Bosh and Garnett clearly in the lead in the East. Zach Randolph might have a really good year being teamed with Curry in NY....and if he keeps his nose clean, it could get even tighter at PF.
                  Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                    Originally posted by BlueNGold View Post
                    As for 3's, he hit 36.4% his rookie year and 37.2% his second year as a Pacer. No, that's not great, but it qualifies as good notwithstanding all the other flaws to his game...particularly when you compare him to Tinsley who is completely left open and cannot even shoot that well.
                    Jamaal shot 37% from 03 to 05, and Sarunas was supposed to improve on that. If shooting threes is the only thing you can do, you should do better than 37%.
                    This space for rent.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                      There was no Jamaal Tinsley Rucker Park expedition.
                      Hard to do from the bench in a suit.

                      Comparing them to Seattle points out that:

                      A) their tempo is nothing compared to a team that was really uptempo, and no way the Sonics are going to outrun Phoenix or even Golden State it would seem, which means that the Sonics are NOT the high water mark of uptempo at this point.

                      And again the Pacers finished 10th in pace last year, not 25th or something. They went up and down the court at a pretty good clip, forced and awkward though it was.

                      B) the Pacers defense was a joke much of the night, except for JO of course. I did see some moments of perhaps improved help defense, at least the recognition that something should be done. But the Sonics scored at will and near the rim for long periods of the evening. Again, there were a lot of missed open jumpers that helped out.

                      Why do I care? Because I want the team to win and I'm telling you right now that they will not win games if they let teams like Seattle get to the rim for an open layup or dunk in 2-5 seconds of the shot clock. There is no way that Dick Harter or JOB agree with anyone that says that defensive effort was okay.




                      Remember the CAKEWALK THREAD? Yeah, I'm a big jerk. Okay then, let's just look at some of the GUSHING RESPONSES right here in this thread over said "meaningless games". Not only meaningless, but at home against 2 teams that all .500 teams would be expected to beat on their own court.

                      COY, playoffs, all-stars...we got these opinions from 2 preseason games against teams that people expect to be average at best.

                      I ask only a simple thing for those of you impressed by these games, or not impressed, or in any way thought you could tell anything about the Pacers from seeing or even reading about these 2 games - please just drop in the cakewalk thread and mention it.

                      I don't care if your opinion is that these games aren't as easy as I implied or that regardless of the skills of the opponents there are plenty of things you can pick up on.

                      That's a lot better than "so what it's just preseason...oh wait, we won, well then that tells us a lot".

                      And in fairness if your a person who did dismiss the preseason as worthless and you are maintaining that POV then I have no problem with you. You are consistant and fair and I respect that. If you pop in here and say "who cares if Mike hit 3s in this game, let's seem him do it when it counts" then I get your POV even if I don't share it.



                      When the Digest starts filling up with "man, the Bucks are loaded, their new coach has them playing playoff caliber ball" after a 2-1 start playing against Chicago and Utah, then maybe I'll feel like there is an air of reasonable thought.

                      I'm not the only one. Anthem, for example, sees "Granger All-Star" after a 4-10 night with 2 boards, an assist and a turnover and says "now hold on there". Notice how that's not the same as "he sucks". Pulling in the reigns of expectations is not the same as being negative and hostile. To his credit he keeps it short and sweet, whereas I stink at that.

                      The Pacers have had a couple of mixed effort games so far against blah teams. Can't we just add those facts up to the kind of expectation we'd have if it was another team under discussion? Right now it sounds a little like Lakers fans telling us that Farmar and Bynum were going to be awesome and the Lakers were title contenders as is, without JO (might be tough to buy even with JO).

                      I don't want us to be like that, that's all.
                      Last edited by Naptown_Seth; 10-14-2007, 05:04 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                        Originally posted by Anthem View Post
                        Jamaal shot 37% from 03 to 05, and Sarunas was supposed to improve on that. If shooting threes is the only thing you can do, you should do better than 37%.
                        I agree that if shooting threes is the only thing Saras can do, he should be shooting better...like Jason Kapono for example.

                        However, I notice you omitted JT's putrid 22% and 31% showings in '06 and '07. Shame, shame.

                        ...and to boot, Sarunas was actually guarded. Teams dared JT to shoot the ball and he still poorly. I could shoot 35% in an empty gym, so maybe I need to suit up.

                        Hey, I'm no Sarunas fan but even I know he's a he&& of a lot better shooter than JT. It might be the only thing he does on the floor better than Jamaal, but there is no comparison.
                        Last edited by BlueNGold; 10-14-2007, 05:51 PM. Reason: Clarification
                        Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                          All I'm trying to tell you, Seth, is that you continue to choose to focus on the bad when there are good things happening. When you combine that choice with your posting style, which is to post often and to write a lot within each post, it becomes domineering. Particularly when you get condescending about it (with comments along the lines of, "how can you NOT see this?" or other simply sarcastic comments).

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                            Granger won't be an all-star there. Even if he has a ridiculous year (which is something I don't think hes quite ready for yet) he would still have to jump over Pierce, Lebron, KG, JO, Randolph etc to get an all star nod.


                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                              The edited for Mal's eyes repost....
                              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                              Wow, I was impressed. There had to be about 10 makes with 20 seconds left on the clock. Layups, short jumpers, a three, and a couple of fouls drawn too.

                              Oh, and a DUNK with 22 seconds on the clock. 2 seconds and you get a dunk. Better yet that 2 second dunk came off a MADE SHOT by the other team. Now that is some uptempo offense, really amazing.

                              So good news if you are a fan of SEATTLE.



                              Yes, that's right, the uptempo Pacers were painfully outran and out "early offensed" by the 2 rookie and PJ Carl. Sonics. Seattle has far more new pieces being put together, yet their offense was shredding the Pacers for early makes, or at worst early open misses.


                              Meanwhile what did I see on the Pacers end? Oh, just a 3 seconds left desperation heave from 3 by JO. Sure he made it and more on that later but the issue is how did this early offense, ball upcourt instantly offense wind up with NO SHOT for 21 seconds?

                              That wasn't typical, but it wasn't far off either. 10-12 seconds was the norm, while on the other end Seattle's norm was closer to 18 seconds left, much, much quicker than Indy.

                              That set off my warning alarm. And if Wally had been out there hitting some of those early open mids? Could have gotten ugly.

                              And on the issue, just how many nice fastbreaks did the Pacers pull off? I saw Danny miss a wild layup off a JO shot block, I saw an early 3 on 1 (or 4-2 with trailers) go for nothing as well. Didn't see a lot of JO or Danny or Mike out in front for the flying dunk however, or that passing between 3 guys to set up the easy layup.



                              Danny continues to force some truly bad shots, driving right into traffic rather than moving the ball. He doesn't seem to get JOB's approach yet. Danny also hasn't found a true dribble drive yet either.


                              Troy was just blah, and when he and Mike were out there together Seattle put them into PnR situations together. Early on they got an uncontested layup in the halfcourt out of this play from the wing.


                              Ike looks awkward still, maybe a bit more than last year even. Did you see him do a jump-catch in the low post and then as soon as he caught it and landed he jumped awkwardly back up into a jump turnaround? He made it but this can not possibly be considered a good go-to play. No idea why he chose to raise the difficulty for himself on that one.


                              Of course the Pacers won, beating a team that everyone at PD thinks will finish better than them....oh wait that's right, when I say the Pacers will end up with one of the worst records many of you point to teams just like Seattle and New Orleans as teams that will finish behind the Pacers, not better than them.

                              Well they got 2 wins against those teams at home (but to be fair the thin crowds reduce that HC advantage some). Hurray.



                              So I'm seeing this stuff and thinking "how are they winning, this is awful". Obviously it wasn't all awful.
                              THE GOOD?

                              JO, JO, JO. Seattle gets it to 4 points. JO goes low post (oh no, is Rick back) and scores over a double team with a turn-fade (oh no, not that again). JO comes back and gets a huge shot block (Danny wastes it at the other end but still, great defense by JO). JO hits a freaking bail-out 3.

                              The best offense ran through JO. An early Troy layup? Pass from JO at the high post, and a tough one through traffic at that. An assist on a kickout by Troy? Came from another great JO feed. Danny goes baseline for a layup? Give and go off of JO ala he and Jack last year, my favorite play they ran in fact. Great to see it in action with those 2 this year.

                              JO was a solid passing big last year, despite some PD attitude based on 3-4 years ago play that he wasn't. To me it looks like he's taking that passing up even another level. He was the floor leader, or he and Mike. Meaning you want the ball in their hands every play, at least to set up other things and to make the right read.


                              Mike. This is Mike last year but so far with the added 3 I've said they desperately need. If he's really found his 3pt touch from his first 2 years it's going to be a massive help. For the first 2 games this year it has been. He still can't do much with drives, getting another without a make or a foul drawn at one point that was typical Dun, but otherwise you want the ball in his hands.

                              Diener. Not a star, he's not going to be the guy that wins battles for you, but he is a solid 3pt ace PG that unlike Saras can actually protect the ball and run the offense enough to justify him staying on the court.

                              Foster. Dude looks brilliant, he looks like he understands the system better than anyone. He's making great passes, including a feed through traffic to Danny at the rim...then Danny proceded to miss the point blank shot.

                              IMO if something very drastic doesn't change I don't see how JOB can start Troy over Jeff, it's not even close when you add in the defensive end. With Mike, JO, Tins and Danny you don't need a 5th option anyway, and Foster makes the rest of the system at both ends flow nicely.

                              Danny's Three
                              . Danny had a spotty night but his outside jumper did not. He's confident in it and should be. The more JOB's system can get him this open look the better. Danny taking 8 of these a night at his potential 38-40 make rate sounds damn good to me. It was critical vs Seattle (as was Mike's)

                              Owens? Well, kind of. Hard to tell in games like these but he definitely is the best offensive 3rd PG option we've seen in a long time around here. Dare I say "Best like" in his style and quality, ie he'll drive hard for a somewhat high difficulty wild layup that he actually makes or draws a foul on and he's fast and attacking with his dribble.

                              At his price and expected role I'll take a poor man's Best in a heartbeat.

                              Quis. Okay, didn't blow me away but he played. Not that he was bad, just that he wasn't star-like as this might suggest either. What is "good" about Quis is that he was just out there healthy doing what he does. Great bench guy that gives you a little of everything ala McKey (which I said last year). He's way more McKey than the more offensively aggressive Dun as someone tried to suggest.

                              Like McKey Quis lets himself fade into the background a bit and just looks for holes that need filling. He's critical to the Pacers chances. I didn't like the GS trade, but I also did agree that Quis being hurt was part of that final 3 months problem.



                              Compared to last year most of this team looks 100% the same. JO low, JO defense, help on shot blocks, Foster hustle boards, Mike all around offense but slow on defense, Danny hitting 3s but overall inconsistant, Quis slashing...

                              The only
                              things I saw noticably better is top of the arc passing and some mid-clock rotation passing. They moved the ball out of trouble better, they started a lot of plays off with move weaving action out top as well, and a bit livlier off the ball movement also.

                              In the end it didn't really get them any earlier shots and they basically never really got a full transition game going.


                              I'll concede that it's early and that JOB's system might not yet have taken hold. But if you watched that game and saw Danny's 3s and JO in the low post or taking a high post fade jumper and thought "yeah, this is different" then you didn't watch the Pacers last year.

                              The best parts of the team right now are the same parts that were best last year. And they still gave up a boatload of EARLY, EASY scores.

                              You might be fine with that but I'd be shocked if JOB was. This roster has a long way to go.
                              I hope I didn't spoil it by leaving it a tinge of pessimism regarding the tempo and transition offense. I didn't want it to come off as too sunny to be realistic. Not sure if I left anything "pretty" after this new version of the dissection either.


                              (yes there is sarcasm here, but also a serious point that my post was far from just negative)

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Pacers vs Sonics postgame thread

                                Nap:

                                I'm not saying the team is good, particularly until a month passes into the regular season. I certainly do agree that the defense looks like a drunk must be in charge of it. I have a narrow disagreement with you with respect to your statement that the team "looked 100% the same" as last year. Personally, I did not recognize that offense and believe it could not be more clear that someone else is designing the plays.

                                As for the gushing, it is warranted. People are sensing that the franchise is beginning to turn the corner in terms of personnel issues. I know...Shawne...but I say let people be positive....and my God, I have been a major cynic. Also, IMO the franchise is starting to make some smart decisions for the first time in several years. They at least partially addressed the perimeter shooting issues by picking up Diener and Rush...two low risk projects that may really fill a need. Certainly not great players, but we had a gaping wound there that an old sock would improve upon. In short, I truly believe we will have a better team than last year and I hope that is the beginning of a turnaround.

                                Oh, and as for Tinsley not playing...that certainly backs up my point that the team did not "look 100% like last year".
                                Lance is finally home. Whether he becomes our starting PG or he's 6th man, he's getting big minutes and he's here to stay. #llortontnia

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X