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Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

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  • #16
    Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

    Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
    I suppose I could ask if anyone missed Foster tonight. Oops forget I said
    that
    Yes, but only because my sight was crooked.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

      well,

      after Knicks and Sixers losses, our draft hopes are about shot, so I guess making the playoffs is my new goal.
      The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

        Originally posted by Sh4d3 View Post
        JO should get that honor.

        I demand satisfaction!

        *smack*
        I agree, after all he is the team leader. If he learns to accept his role as the 2nd or 3rd or even 4th option in the offense, this team could do some damage. That is, of course, assuming we shoot as well as we did tonight.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

          Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
          Did anyone miss Tinsley tonight. I sure didn't. Having a consistantly good defender playing point and someone who can hit some shots was just huge tonight.



          Also a great move by Rick to go with Williams, Dunleavy and Granger on the floor during crunch time.
          Errr...you did see Felton walking into the lane over and over and over. DA and McLeod are not very good defenders.

          They ran no offense in the 4th at all, it was disgusting to watch and if it weren't for iso shot making late in the clock they would have lost this game. Wallace also got ripped off on back to back calls which then led to his tech when Granger was allowed to put his hand on the body when going for the block.

          I'll take it, but come on. This was not proof that they are just fine without Tins, nor was it proof that DA is the answer. Dude was 0-4 from 3 yet again. The key with him was that he came inside the arc for shots (6-8, very nice).

          Meanwhile CHA was able to go lane at will and also take advantage of JO at times.


          However, I do agree with the 2nd part, Dunleavy was great down the stretch as a smart guy on the court and his brains and attitude got him those rebounds. Shawne still makes mistakes and can certainly be beaten about as badly as Granger, but man does he play the game like he is team focused. You just have to find a way to keep him on the court with Danny.

          The one thing about Danny I praised almost all year was the development of his offensive game. After he got away from just hawking the arc around mid-DEC he's been mostly strong in his skill set. He hit the shooting slump, but his individual offensive ability and moves look developed and strong.

          Awareness has been and remains his big hurdle still.



          I rip on DA not being the answer mostly because of fans that think he is, but I like him and was really happy to see him able to impact the game so much tonight.


          Murph, I'm really frustrated with where his game is at right now. I'd rather see Ike getting the bulk of Troy's minutes, despite Ike being careless with the ball and undersized. Ike has more strong aspects than Troy does, at least the last few weeks or so.


          Bottom line - this team needs to play MUCH better than they did tonight. Honestly they looked far better vs CHI or even a good portion of the Detroit game. CHA helped out and so did some tough shot making. You can't count on that every night.

          They aren't giving up, but we already knew that. I'm glad because as much as some of this play is unpleasant to watch, a team truly not caring is worse to watch by far. Even an ugly win is exciting and a little uplifting. I'm excited about a possible playoff run. They feel like the underdogs now which makes it that much more interesting. Maybe they can surprise us still.

          JO did. He missed about everything.
          Funny Maragin, good one.


          Buck, I don't like Dunleavy's shooting or defense, and those are issues. When he's making his open jumpers the team does much better, but when he's missing he's often holding the team back. Tonight he did neither so that was a wash, and instead he found other ways to impact the game. Gee, who does that remind me of? As I said all along, they simply traded Jack for Jack without the defense or the mental/emotional lapses.

          I don't like Jack more than Dun nor dislike Dun more than Jack. I dislike the fan attitude that there is some night and day difference. There isn't, except that Dun is really the SF version of Jackson and this team didn't need yet another SF.

          You can disagree all you want, but Shawne is still often asked to guard the SG, as is Danny. Why might that be I wonder?

          I'd love it if Dun could just be a 38% 3pt guy that goes 48% from 2pt range with 4 assists and 5.5 rebounds (more asked on offense because he's less of a defender). Right now the 3pt shot and assists simply aren't there. Until they are he's going to be overpaid and sometimes part of the problem.

          He seems great, it's the results half the time that I don't like.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

            [quote=Unclebuck;564614]Granger has really changed his game lately - driving and just playing aggressively.

            Nice win tonight.

            quote]

            I have noticed it as well. Some people have been dissapointed by Grangers play this season.I haven't I think he is progressing very nicely especially on the offensive end. This is a guy who couldn't shoot last season, he comes back this year with 3pt range on his jumper,he couldn't handle the ball and get to the basket last season on a regular basis now were seeing over the past 7-8 games this guy attacking the basket.I just love the way he has been playing lately.He may not be a franchise player but he's going to be a all star caliber swingman for many years in this league.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
              Errr...you did see Felton walking into the lane over and over and over. DA and McLeod are not very good defenders.
              I see your overall point on Tins vs. the other two. No argument here. But this part wouldn't have been any different though.
              I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

              -Emiliano Zapata

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                Now I just want to say before hand...I didn't get to watch the game.

                But I am still baffled by the fact that RC continues to not give Ike enough playing time. JO is hurting and shooting terribly (4-18) but played 40 minutes. While Diogu only got 5:24 minutes on the floor.

                It is totally possible that JO had an impact on the game and it just didn't show up in the box score so I can't determine that.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                  Originally posted by BoomBaby33 View Post

                  No Tins, No Foster, No Problem!
                  Add JO to that least and you've got my ideal off season moves for new player acquisition list.
                  I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                  -Emiliano Zapata

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                    Originally posted by indyman37 View Post
                    Now I just want to say before hand...I didn't get to watch the game.

                    But I am still baffled by the fact that RC continues to not give Ike enough playing time. JO is hurting and shooting terribly (4-18) but played 40 minutes. While Diogu only got 5:24 minutes on the floor.

                    It is totally possible that JO had an impact on the game and it just didn't show up in the box score so I can't determine that.
                    Well, overall stats weren't gaudy and I thought he looked pretty shabby in the 1st half. But he had a timely hoop or two and a couple timely blocks 2nd half. He also got Okafor in early foul trouble (with the help of some friendly whisltes perhaps. But forced him to the bench either way.
                    I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.

                    -Emiliano Zapata

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                      Originally posted by Sh4d3 View Post
                      Danny with a career-high 32 points tonight, triggered by an inadvertant smack in the eye that wasn't whistled as a foul.

                      You don't want to make Danny Granger angry. You wouldn't like Danny Granger when he's angry.
                      is it possible we've been calling the wrong player "Hulk" ?
                      This is the darkest timeline.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                        Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
                        Add JO to that least and you've got my ideal off season moves for new player acquisition list.
                        With tonights overall team performance (even though it is just one game), you might just get your wish. And maybe even Quis.

                        You had to wonder what Tins was thinking while he was watching the 3rd/4th string PG McCleod run the "offense / team" better than he does.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                          Originally posted by D-BONE View Post
                          I see your overall point on Tins vs. the other two. No argument here. But this part wouldn't have been any different though.
                          Just saying that Buck was talking about how nice it was to watch good PG defense tonight. I wondered when he changed channels.

                          I like Greene, but even he was frustrating. Of course some of his offense is always problematic. Did anyone see he and Danny arguing after his pass to Danny was stolen for a dunk? DA had to break them up a bit (verbal only, nothing serious).


                          IndyMan - JO played for defense and the post threat (drawing doubles). Ike simply isn't as mature and poised about protecting the ball, and vs CHA that's especially required. They pushed their luck with Shawne and Danny through the 4th, which is a big reason why DunDun was so critical out there. Gerald Wallace is monster ball hawk, very talented. He once left Danny from baseline weakside when he read JO's doubleteam kickout pass and got to the ball out at the arc BEFORE his own man (Felton) could touch it, and Ray was guarding the guy it was coming to (DA). Sick.


                          As I said, the 4th quarter offense was miserable. You had broken play shot making, or things like the late airball that DA caught and put up with 2 seconds from under the rim for the bucket. You don't design that and you certainly don't want to be banking on it.

                          CHA got great looks on kick outs, in the post, and drives to the lane. Indy answered when DG would hit a defended jumper or they'd score out of some slop.

                          Pacers were just under their AST per FG tonight (58% norm, 55% tonight) so they didn't move it especially well even in total. But they did shoot 54.8% compared to their season average of 43.6%. That's a massive difference.

                          And looking closer at that surprisingly high AST number (IMO) you notice a problem in the 4th. That flurry of 8 assists in the first half of the 4th sounds great until you see what shots they came on:

                          12 ft jumper
                          layup
                          19 ft jumper
                          18 ft jumper
                          3pt
                          3pt
                          20 ft jumper
                          19 ft jumper

                          Some of those were decent ball reversals around the arc to the corner (for a Shawne 3 for example), but many were simply that a guy passed in desperation and the guy it went to answered the mild prayer (he gets an assist for playing hot potato).

                          The points in paint were insanely in CHA's favor. I think mid-4th it was like 40-22 or something. The Pacers hit poorly created, semi-open jumpers. That's why I sound negative. This was more like a "punchers chance" win than a true display of overall smooth play.


                          Of course perhaps they simply played down to the competition. But CHA looked more effective in the 4th than Indy. You know those nights when it seems like no matter what the opponent can't miss and it ticks you off? A lot of Bobcat fans went home feeling that way tonight.

                          Tough crap I say, it happens to the Pacers all the time. I just wish they had the shooting to make that happen all the time.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                            Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
                            Errr...you did see Felton walking into the lane over and over and over. DA and McLeod are not very good defenders.

                            They are both much better than Tinsley. Maybe my point of reference is a little off because of Tinsley, but Leod and DA are much better defenders than Tinsley.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                              Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post

                              They ran no offense in the 4th at all.


                              When have they? One of Rick's/the team's biggest flaws this season. No offense=no opponent defensive effort=more energy to focus on offense=scoring efficiently while the Pacers go ice-cold.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Pacers vs. Bobcats Post-Game Thread: The tank stops in Charlotte

                                Something else that was not so evident in the overall scheme of things. We actually caught a few breaks from the refs for the first time in along time. The cats had a few bad calls on them, but hey, when i'm rooting for the home team, it doesn't matter when we get some breaks. It sure feels nice. Thanks to DS for calling off the dogs tonight?

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