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Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

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  • #31
    Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

    Originally posted by Naptown_Seth View Post
    Sorry, but JACKSON was not even on the court for most of the collapse. And he only took 5 shots, hitting 3 of them. He only played 25 minutes.

    One single player stood strongly out as the issue, with a Robin to his Batman.
    Tinsley, with Al as his sidekick.

    Tinsley got crazy ball dominate the final 6 minutes, and at times didn't even put the ball in JO's hands at all. Jackson, in contrast, passed up many shots and tried to work the system.

    For example, around the 6 minute mark Harrington rushed up court, tried to force a transition layup and instead fumbled it almost away. The scrum on the floor (helped by Jeff to save it) ended up with Jack getting the ball at the 3 line and wide open. But with 2 players out of the play and no one to rebound he instead reset the set. They ran a proper play that ended up getting Al a wide open 3 after moving the ball all over the court.

    For that Jackson got benched so Rick could go big with Al and Danny, JO and Jeff. And Danny on Dirk no less, not defending the "SG".

    Al at times showed some scoring moves that look reasonable, but at other times he was getting clearly outplayed.


    Tinsley...I just wanted him off the floor by the time he fouled out. It's not missing shots or not being the most talented player, it's how he takes the more talented Pacers out of the loop all by himself down the stretch. This was repeat of what he did in the Minny game.


    What I don't get is what happened to "good Tinsley", the one we were waiting to get healthy again? Now he's playing every game and I don't even want him to. He's played MUCH better basketball than he's been showing the last month.

    And much the same could be said about Harrington.


    Jack is catching too much flack in all this I think. His game is flawed, but he at least looks to be buying into the team concept. He's certainly not the liability that Armstrong is on the court, despite his energy and attitude (DA I mean). DA doesn't have a shot anymore and gambles on defense constantly (leading to easy looks), but at least he seems to sense what the team needs from play to play.

    I stuck by Tins a long time, but this 4th quarter take-over version is terrible and unacceptable.


    JO is a freaking monster. Jeff, bunnies or not, continues to have a great season as well. Danny I think is showing small steps of progression in his awareness.

    I'll pay to watch them play. I'll still pay to see Jack play. I enjoy Baston, DA, Saras, Quis, Powell, and Rawle too.

    But Tins and Al are moving into Harrison territory if they keep this up, as in "don't bother". I just can't understand what has happened to either of them.
    Yelp, can't blame this one on Jax. Tins stunk up the place....17 shots and 5 to's. Only thing you can blame Jax for is staying on the bench for the the 4th quarter for spouting off to RC again. I believe he would have come back in crunch time, if not for yakking at RC.

    The real reason for the loss was that the Mavs played lock down zone defense in the 4th that just baffled the Pacers. They were confused and didn't handle the ball well. The Mavs may have been a little overly aggressive and may have committed a couple of uncalled fouls, but the good aggressive teams seem to get the breaks. But, I'm not blaming it on the zebras at all.

    RC should have jerked Tins at least long enough to read him the riot act and get the point across that he is first and foremost a PG not a SG.
    .

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

      Originally posted by Dat Dude View Post
      Jamaal Tinsley shooting happened.
      Out of curiosity, when JO gets doubled, who else should take those shots when everybody is seemingly slumping? Al? Jack? Danny? Come on! The same thing will happen regardless of who takes the shots. The difference is that JT seems to be the only one who willingly takes those shots. Obviously, he is not the answer, but I ask you this...who is?

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

        Originally posted by Putnam View Post
        Harrington scored +6 and rebounded +5. But Dwight Howard had a good night, too: +6 scoring and +4.5 rebounding. A wash.

        Anybody who wants to pin this loss on the Pacers guards, I'm thinkin' you may be right.
        Aggreed! Except on Al. He got a good amount of points on decent shots. Rebounded better then normal. Though his numbers are misleading IMO. His defense was awfull. Further, Al was on George not Quis or Stepehen and granted him two uncontested 3-pointers.

        The main problem lies in the backcourt though. And I aggree this game was definitely winnable against a Dallas team that almost seemed to have an off-night.

        Regards,

        Mourning
        2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

        2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

        2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

          Originally posted by CableKC View Post
          I was only able to see the highlights on ESPN...it looks like we were in it and even winning until the 4th QTR.

          What happened in the 4th?
          That's when the difference between a cohesive, experienced team and a team looking for an idenity was grapically played out.
          .

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

            Originally posted by rexnom View Post
            Out of curiosity, when JO gets doubled, who else should take those shots when everybody is seemingly slumping? Al? Jack? Danny? Come on! The same thing will happen regardless of who takes the shots. The difference is that JT seems to be the only one who willingly takes those shots. Obviously, he is not the answer, but I ask you this...who is?
            Only looking at percentages now ... I would say Danny, Al, Stephen, Quis. This guy shot 9 times in the fourth and hit 0. Atleast Stephen a lot of times realizes that he's just not going to hit much and reduces the number of shots he takes. What made things worse was Tins one-on-one crap against AJ and against Harris, particularly in the fourth.

            I don't think Al would have a problem shooting the ball another gazillion times, so I don't buy that Tins was the only one that "sacrificied" his overall game for the team and took the difficult job upon him of taking the shots when they were becoming harder.

            He took 18 shots. 18!!! That's more shots then Dirk took and the same amount of shots JO took. I rather have JO take some difficult shots then.

            Regards,

            Mourning
            2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

            2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

            2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

              Originally posted by Mourning View Post
              Quit making up excuses for him. You only do that for Tinsley. I really appreciate you as a poster Jay, but you are really using a double standard here IMO.

              There were a lot more bad shots and bad decisions made by Tinsley then blown fastbreaks that you could blame his teammates for.

              He took 18 shots in 22:36. That's a shot every 75 seconds that he's in the game. So, divide that about two for the Mavericks and he shot about every 38 seconds of a Pacers possesion. Now if he hit them, but he only got 6 and this is not the first time this season that he shoots badly. Then let's not forget his 5 TO's either.

              Dallas didn't even play that well. We could have had them tonight. We dominated them on the boards and were about on par with shooting until the end of the 3rd, start of the 4th quarter when Tins thought it was a good idea to go up one-on-one repeatedly against Harris and also started throwing the ball away.

              True, Stephen and Danny also had horrible games and Al's statline looks better then he played, but Tins was by far the worst and killed us in the 4th.

              Regards,

              Mourning
              Coaching.

              Originally posted by Dat Dude View Post
              Jamaal Tinsley shooting happened.
              Coaching.

              Originally posted by Roferr View Post
              RC should have jerked Tins at least long enough to read him the riot act and get the point across that he is first and foremost a PG not a SG.
              Coaching.

              Tinsley is doing what Rick wants him to do. That's why Rick doesn't stop it.

              Believe me, I hate shoot-first PGs. And Tinsley looks terrible as a shoot-first PG. Because he's not. His coach is trying to turn him into something he's not. He's not Travis Best (thank God). He's not Chauncey Billups (too bad). He's not Steve Francis. For God's sake, if we are going to use our PG as the #2 option, then I DO want Francis. I don't like that style of play at all but all least the Franchise is good at it.

              Originally posted by rexnom View Post
              Out of curiosity, when JO gets doubled, who else should take those shots when everybody is seemingly slumping? Al? Jack? Danny? Come on! The same thing will happen regardless of who takes the shots. The difference is that JT seems to be the only one who willingly takes those shots. Obviously, he is not the answer, but I ask you this...who is?
              Coaching.
              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
              And life itself, rushing over me
              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                For someone that started a thread about effort, and how fans really can't judge it because we don't see the whole picture, how in the world can you comment on what Rick wants Tinsley to do?

                There's just something about the Steelers and JT that won't let you see them without those rose colored glasses on.
                Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                  Am I the only one who isn't buying the garbage about Rick trying to turn Jamaal into a shoot first point guard. That seems absurd to me. Rick doesn't want him to shoot that much, but Rick has no other choice at point guard - we all know that - TPTB traded AJ so Rick had to play JT. Rick hjas to play Jamaal his bosses have forced his hand. This was obvious over the summer - why isn't it obvious now.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                    (But ofcourse you aren't stupid)
                    Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                      Originally posted by Since86 View Post
                      For someone that started a thread about effort, and how fans really can't judge it because we don't see the whole picture, how in the world can you comment on what Rick wants Tinsley to do?

                      There's just something about the Steelers and JT that won't let you see them without those rose colored glasses on.
                      Do you see Rick stopping it? No - and Rick's even got the balls to deal with Stephen Jackson this season, so I don't think Rick's "afraid" of Tinsley.

                      This problem in Tinsley's style of play has been rising ever since Rick arrived, and it really took off right after the brawl when Jamaal discovered that Rick praised him most when he was scoring and playing at the team's #1/ #2 option.

                      Do you think I like it when Tinsley shoots that much? Hell no.

                      Do all of you seriously think that Tinsley is breaking away from the game plan that much without reprecussions?

                      Tinsley is not a shoot-first PG, and everybody knows it.

                      Rick has voiced a preference many times for a shoot-first style of PG.

                      I'm not pulling anything out of a hat, I'm just putting all the facts together and reaching a reasonable and supportable conclusion. And its much more supportable and reasonable (IMO) than just assuming that Tinsley is doing all this on his own, without his coach's blessing.
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                        Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                        Am I the only one who isn't buying the garbage about Rick trying to turn Jamaal into a shoot first point guard. That seems absurd to me. Rick doesn't want him to shoot that much, but Rick has no other choice at point guard - we all know that - TPTB traded AJ so Rick had to play JT. Rick hjas to play Jamaal his bosses have forced his hand. This was obvious over the summer - why isn't it obvious now.
                        Orien Greene?
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                          Originally posted by Jay@Section19 View Post
                          ?

                          Tinsley is not a shoot-first PG, and everybody knows it.

                          .
                          Everyone but Rick? Do you think Rick is stupid

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                            Square peg, round hole.

                            Stupid? No. In all my complaints about Rick's coaching, intellect is not one of them.

                            Stubborn to a fault? Absolutely.

                            We're talking about the guy who would *still* start Michael Curry if he had the opportunity.
                            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                            And life itself, rushing over me
                            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                              Rick is probably too scared that he's going to "disrespect" Tinsley.

                              But in all seriousness, I'd rather see Tinsley shooting 18times than watch Saras play the added minutes. He can tell him until he's blue in the face that's not what needs to happen, but he really doesn't have another option to go with at this point, other than Quis and Rick is hesitant to change especially to something that different for him.

                              You still manage to deflect blame on Tinsley and throw it on to RC.
                              Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right. ― Ricky Gervais.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Post Game Thread: Its official JO and Foster are the only ones who care

                                Originally posted by Unclebuck View Post
                                Am I the only one who isn't buying the garbage about Rick trying to turn Jamaal into a shoot first point guard. That seems absurd to me. Rick doesn't want him to shoot that much, but Rick has no other choice at point guard - we all know that - TPTB traded AJ so Rick had to play JT. Rick hjas to play Jamaal his bosses have forced his hand. This was obvious over the summer - why isn't it obvious now.
                                I'm with you in the sense that I think Rick's hand has been forced here. If he was working with a little bit more talented guard and JT made half of those shots and his FTs, Rick would be a genius right about know. Maybe you can argue that Rick shouldn't be trying to pull this with JT, but who else does he go to? Jack? Danny? Al? All of those guys have been wildly inconsistent.

                                I also don't think we can blame Jamaal. He is just not that good. This is not his fault. This is why the Pacers aren't the Mavs. We don't have their talent. We either need to develop some consistent performances from everyone (see Detroit game) so that Jamaal doesn't have to do his best AI impression or we need to bring in a second option.

                                Another note, I think Danny shows signs of being able to develop that second option ability as soon as next year, so don't give up on him yet...

                                Comment

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