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insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

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  • #16
    Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

    I just can't see any great offensive player co-existing with Iverson. It may work for a while but AI's ego will get crimped when he doesn't get his 25 shots and he will become a mal-content.
    .

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    • #17
      Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

      Originally posted by Roferr View Post
      I just can't see any great offensive player co-existing with Iverson. It may work for a while but AI's ego will get crimped when he doesn't get his 25 shots and he will become a mal-content.
      You mean he is presently not a malcontent? We shall see if this works out. I think they have too many scorers and the odd man out is JR.

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

        Originally posted by pacertom View Post
        I think this may be a little bit like the pairing of George McGinnis and Julius Erving in Philadelphia in their prime in 1976.

        Both sacrificed a little and they made two good runs at a title. I guess people considered it a disappoinment to not win with Dr. J, George, Doug Collins, World B. Free and others. Their near-miss was a finals loss to the Walton Trailblazer team in 77.

        Of course Mac was a PF and Dr. J a SF.
        Nice call Pacertom....here is in article from the Philadelphia newspaper comparing the Iverson trade to the McGinnis trade. He gives out some info about McGinnis that I was not aware of.....interesting....

        Bob Ford | Iverson trade a lot like McGinnis dealBy Bob Ford
        Inquirer Columnist
        Allen Iverson begins the second act of his NBA career as a Nugget this evening in Denver - snow removal-permitting - and that's a fitting new nickname for a small, precious commodity whose value has fluctuated and who has been occasionally hard to find, particularly on practice days.

        Whatever you may wish for Iverson as he leaves Philadelphia behind, backhanding the coach and the organization as he goes, rewriting history on whether he did or did not demand a trade, the rest of this season will be a positive one for him and his public perception. He will be Olympic Allen for Denver, the ball-sharing, role-playing, good-teammate Allen, anxious to show that the Sixers were to blame for the way things ended here. He will not just coexist with Carmelo Anthony when the star swingman returns from his brawl-related vacation; he will help Anthony thrive.

        You can rely on that - for this season. If there will be trouble, it will be down the road of another year, if the Nuggets don't improve, if the offense doesn't bend to Iverson's inflexible will, if being Olympic Allen gets tiresome. Who knows?

        That's the thing about trades and changes of scenery and new starts. They don't come with a crystal ball. The ultimate winner and loser of Tuesday's deal won't be decided for a long time.

        But because the teams involved are the same, and because, hauntingly, so many of the same names are present in this new drama, the trade of Iverson to Denver is weirdly reminiscent of the last mega-deal between the Nuggets and Sixers. It was a trade that sent a superstar in one direction, brought back a role player in the other, and put the teams on wildly divergent paths.

        So, children, the story of George McGinnis. It's a good one.

        An imposing 6-foot-8 forward with great rebounding instincts and a scorer's touch, McGinnis liked many things about basketball, but practice and discipline were not among them.

        Larry Brown had his first exposure to McGinnis when, as coach of the ABA Nuggets, Brown and assistant Doug Moe coached a Western Conference all-star team that included McGinnis. Other than refusing to take part in drills and layup lines - "Hey, I just don't do that stuff" - McGinnis was pleasant enough, but Brown and Moe shook their heads afterward. "Can you imagine having to coach a guy like that?" Brown said.

        The fast-forward reel spins a few years, after McGinnis jumped from the Indiana Pacers and played three seasons with the 76ers, averaging 21.6 points and 11.5 rebounds, the last season of which, 1977-78, he played for new coach Billy Cunningham, who didn't much like his act. That off-season, Cunningham, Brown and Moe (then coaching San Antonio) - three old North Carolina buddies - were having dinner at the league meetings when Cunningham proposed a McGinnis-for-Bobby Jones trade to Brown.

        "You'd have to be crazy to do that, Larry," Moe chuckled, and immediately felt a kick under the table from Cunningham. Taking the hint, Moe let the scene play out and Brown did, in fact, agree to the trade, and George McGinnis was marketed as the saving superstar for the Denver franchise. His face was on all the billboards, all the buses.

        It went well until the first day of training camp when McGinnis didn't take his turns in the drills, drifting to the back of the line and letting others go ahead of him. Brown stopped practice and said, "Hey, George. That's not how we do things around here."

        "Maybe you shouldn't have traded for me then," McGinnis replied.

        First day of training camp. Face on billboards and buses.

        Brown, taking it all calmly, quit 53 games into the season, eventually moving on to UCLA, New Jersey, the University of Kansas, San Antonio, the L.A. Clippers, Indiana, the Sixers, Detroit, New York and - very recently - outside the windows of the Wachovia Center with his nose pressed against the glass. McGinnis didn't stay much longer in Denver. He was eventually traded to Indiana, where his career ended, out of lack of interest more than anything, at the age of 31. George Karl, who began his coaching career in San Antonio under Moe, bounced around and is now in his third season with the Nuggets, with Moe as his assistant.

        And the Sixers? Jones was the perfect piece to the puzzle. He played defense and cleared the way for Julius Erving to become the dominant offensive player on the team - albeit with a pretty good additional cast. The Sixers made the NBA Finals in the 1979-80 season to begin a stretch of three title round appearances in four years. Somewhat memorably, they won the championship on the last try. As you may have heard, it's been a while since that kind of noise around here.

        The point? Afraid you might ask. There isn't really a point, aside from the obvious. No one knew McGinnis would be such a disaster in Denver. No one knew Jones would work that well with the Sixers. When the trade was made (the Sixers also got guard Ralph Simpson, although that is mentioned merely for the record), it was studied and turned around and most decided that the deal was an even one, maybe a little better for the Nuggets.

        The teams took their chances, made the deal and hoped for the best. After that, it was just a journey into the unknown. It's the same way for the Sixers and Nuggets now. Will Iverson become George McGinnis? Will Andre Miller become Bobby Jones? Will one of those draft picks turn into Andrew Toney? Will Larry Brown return as coach with George Karl, Doug Moe and Billy Cunningham as his assistants?

        What goes around comes around eventually, and it all starts to come around again tonight.


        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Contact columnist Bob Ford at 215-854-5842 or bford@phillynews.com. Read his recent work at http://go.philly.com/bobford.

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        • #19
          Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

          Originally posted by pacertom View Post
          Actually I think he fits very well with big guys who set bone-jarring picks and are happy to just rebound.

          May I introduce you to the best pick-setting big man in the league today..



          The Alpha Male himself, Erick Dampier.

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

            Originally posted by indy0731
            LOL at the thought that Iverson and Melo will work together. I wanted AI here cause we have dominant big man in JO. Melo and AI is gonna be a train wreck. You just watch.
            yeah because both wanted AI in denver, both are friends, both are willing to play with each other, both are willing to share, both want to win badly...i can see where you get that idea.
            Denver Nuggets Talk

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            • #21
              Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

              Originally posted by Calgary Jazz View Post
              Denver is a joke, they are not going to win Northwest not even talking about NBA championship. Who wants bet on that?
              what did they ever do to you? we may not win the title but at least we have a chance now that we traded for AI.
              Denver Nuggets Talk

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                Originally posted by Jon Theodore View Post
                no YOU just watch. You are being absolutely ridiculous. I am sorry that you are bitter that we didn't get the player we never even had a chance of getting, but Denver is easily an elite team in the west now. Iverson might be WORSE here than anywhere else. Jermaine will cry like a girl if he doesn't get his shots where Camby and Nene/Najera don't even need the ball. The only other person who needs the ball on that team is Carmelo.

                Iverson is 31 years old, he is no longer the punk people think he is and you can't solely judge him based off his time in philly because he was always surrounded by CRAP.

                Also, lets not forget George Karl is one of the best coaches in this league. If Carlisle was the coach, yes it would probably end up being a trainwreck. I am calling it right now, Denver will be an elite team and probably a lower seed team in the west that ends up in the WCF. (due to suspensions/time it will take Melo and AI to gel with one another)

                I don't see how anyone thinks a player like AI could co exist with a player like Jermaine O'neal. JO might have the most inflated EGO in the NBA and a player like AI who is ten times better is not going to be looking for Jermaine.

                I think if there is any player in this league who would be a good pairing with JO it's Jason Kidd or maybe Steve Nash...basically just a good passer who an penetrate and shoot. Some might say Iverson is that, but he's more of a scorer obviously than a passer.

                Jo and AI would be just like Chris Webber and AI....nothing to talk about.
                brilliant post.
                Denver Nuggets Talk

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                  Originally posted by indy0731 View Post
                  I like how you think JO would cry about his shots, but Melo and JR Smith won't. That's high comedy.
                  they wont. they are on board with the whole AI thing PLUS (this is where it gets good) AI wants melo to win the title. in our offense there are plenty of shots to go around so melo will still get all of his.

                  no worries.
                  Denver Nuggets Talk

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                    Originally posted by Roferr View Post
                    I just can't see any great offensive player co-existing with Iverson. It may work for a while but AI's ego will get crimped when he doesn't get his 25 shots and he will become a mal-content.
                    new AI = new attitude. you guys are making way too many assumptions. hes a different player and person than a few years ago. if this was 1999 i could see your point but right now this all sounds silly.
                    Denver Nuggets Talk

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                      Originally posted by Calgary Jazz View Post
                      Denver is a joke, they are not going to win Northwest not even talking about NBA championship. Who wants bet on that?
                      Wow...you sound a little bitter...I'll bet that from when they get their whole team back to the end of the season, the Nuggets will have the best record in their division. Also, I'll bet that they get further in the playoffs than any team in their division.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                        Originally posted by NugzFan View Post
                        new AI = new attitude. you guys are making way too many assumptions. hes a different player and person than a few years ago. if this was 1999 i could see your point but right now this all sounds silly.
                        This is a player not even 8 months removed from showing up at TIP-OFF for the fan appreciation night in Philly, which is why he didn't play in that game.

                        He didn't just fight with Brown about practice either. He and Ford had endless battles as well. This "that was way back then" crap is silly.


                        On top of that, let me list some other players than "didn't demand a trade" - Ron Artest, Dale Davis, Al Harrington, and that's just Pacers because those are the ones I remember. All came back AFTER the deals were done and said "I didn't want that".

                        Funny that Iverson didn't get out there and correct everyone BEFORE he was dealt. You know why? He didn't want to stay in Philly and didn't want to tell them "no, I want to stay, I'm not demanding a trade." Of course he demanded a trade, and that fits right in with his NEVER CHANGING attitude toward the business of basketball and his bosses. No respect.


                        I think Allen played as well as he could've last night.
                        And they lost. That was something I was getting at.

                        This stuff reminds me of when losing coaches/managers keep getting hired after terrible records with other teams get them fired. Each new place thinks "this time it will be different".

                        Sometimes they are right. I just think making that 5-10% chance of being right bet is foolish.

                        And in this case they HAD MILLER. The guy is very talented and puts up outstanding numbers, certainly much more efficient PURE PG numbers than AI does.

                        DEN AT PHILLY
                        Miller
                        7-12, 18 points (1.50 PPS), 6 reb, 9 assists, 2 steals, 1 TO
                        Iverson
                        6-20, 21 points (1.05 PPS), 4 reb, 9 assists, 0 steals, 5 TO

                        Yeah, that really screams out "we gotta swap these dudes and get someone in here than can help us".

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                          Originally posted by Iceman1 View Post

                          It went well until the first day of training camp when McGinnis didn't take his turns in the drills, drifting to the back of the line and letting others go ahead of him. Brown stopped practice and said, "Hey, George. That's not how we do things around here."

                          "Maybe you shouldn't have traded for me then," McGinnis replied..
                          AI still wants to play and prove something. Mcginnis had no interest in playing anymore. The rumors were that he smoked in the locker room and just wanted to coast. AI will work out just fine with Denver.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: insider Hollinger calls Denver title contender and raves about how AI will fit in

                            if it doesnt work out he will be the first person a month from now saying how bad of a trade it was and how the nuggets didnt see it coming

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