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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Does anybody even care about....

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  • #16
    Re: Does anybody even care about....

    I'm not as surprised.....as most of us...outside of Jermaniac...proabably haven't even heard of Shawne before the draft...much less during the draft. The most that I heard on him was from Bird's post-draft interview of him on ESPN.

    Like any other rookie....he's a project......its just strange that he's viewed ( at least from a PD perspective ) as more of a project then White would be.

    Maybe if Shawne played more during the Summer League.....or had some highlight reels on YouTube ( as btowncolts suggests )....we would have a better handle of his game.
    Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

    Comment


    • #17
      Re: Does anybody even care about....

      I for one look forward to seeing the kids progress over the next two years. I just think it is going to be hard for either of our rookies to carve out any consistent minutes this year. There is just too much talent at the 2, 3 and 4 spots in front of them. If either crack the rotation it will be because they earned it that is for sure.

      And I just dont buy the "Our coach has a history of severly limiting the roles for rookies" theme that Jay has repeatedly harped on over the Summer. Granger got to play, Harrison got a regular opportunity, James Jones got a regular opportunity. So I am not sure what history you are referring to, Jay, because I just dont see it based on the time Rick has been the coach of the Pacers.

      Those 3 guys mentioned are the only rookies that Rick has dealt with during his tenure here. And all have been given ample opportunity based on their skill level, development and the quality of the players playing in front of them.

      Honestly, what more could Rick have done with the 3 rookies he has been given to work with up to this point as the head coach of the Pacers?

      Comment


      • #18
        Re: Does anybody even care about....

        Oh I left out Saras as a rookie. Again, given ample opportunity.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Does anybody even care about....

          I never really freak out about any rookie.

          I'm mostly freaked out that all of these young players are going to be coached by Mr. "I'd-Rather-Play-a-Less-Talented-Veteran-Than-Build-The-Future-Of-The-Team" Carlisle.

          I like Carlisle more than most, but he better get an extension and a change of tune. If either doesn't happen, you can forget talking about the rookies and start talking about *next* year.
          “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

          “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Does anybody even care about....

            Id talk about the kid more but i know nothing about him, i know alot about James "Flight" White since he was from Cincy so i talk about him more (even though i havent really been talking about him here on PD)
            If you havin' depth problems, I feel bad for you son; I got 99 problems but a bench ain't one! - Hicks
            [/center]
            @thatguyjoe84

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            • #21
              Re: Does anybody even care about....

              Originally posted by CableKC View Post
              I'm not as surprised.....as most of us...outside of Jermaniac...proabably haven't even heard of Shawne before the draft...much less during the draft.
              May 19th, 2006 10:24 AM
              Originally posted by Frank Slade View Post
              Yes, the two players I would be ecstatic if we were able steal at 17 would be.

              Ronnie Brewer for sure I think he is everything you can ask for if your the Pacers. Defensive intensity , nose for the ball, good handles, can go to the glass. He reminds me of a combo of Maggette/ Artest .. skill set wise that is .. He has been though slowing rising on the Draft Boards so Indiana may have to trade up.....

              or Shawne Williams... HUGE upside, good size versatile like a Granger but I think he is more of a true Swingman , more of a natural shooter and ball handler..


              I think there were some that follow College and all the Pre-Draft Hype , that knew of him. But yes for the most part he is still not a widely known player, due in part to being on a deep Memphis club.

              Why Not Us ?

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Does anybody even care about....

                Originally posted by Los Angeles View Post
                I'm mostly freaked out that all of these young players are going to be coached by Mr. "I'd-Rather-Play-a-Less-Talented-Veteran-Than-Build-The-Future-Of-The-Team" Carlisle.
                Here is another one..... where has Rick done this as the coach of the Pacers? Please give me some examples in case I am missing something, because I sure dont see it.

                He played Granger, he has played Harrison, he has played Saras and he played Fred and James Jones. Those are the only youngsters that have been on our team during Rick's tenure. Am I missing something?

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Does anybody even care about....

                  I think he probably means the whole Michael Curry thing but I disagree because Rick's job is to coach the team and get wins, not build a team.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Does anybody even care about....

                    I think that the reason so few of us talk much about Shawne Williams is because he is a big question mark.

                    He has talent, he has the total package. As long as he works hard on the court and in the weight room he will be fine with his skills and body. I'm more worried about the mental aspects of the game from him. He is an unproven talent and it will be 3 years before we really have a good idea of what type of player he will be.

                    Williams is listed at 225 pounds. His weight isn't a big issue for me, it's his strength. Any person should be able to bench press atleast their body weight and I thought I remember reading that Shawne couldn't even bench 200 at the pre-draft camp. So his strength is a big issue for me.

                    Then his experience/on court awarness/focus needs to improve. But Williams is still young, only 20 years old, so I am not worried about this. I think that after he gets more experience this will get better.

                    Williams should be a fine player. He just won't be getting any playing time atleast in his rookie season, nor should he because he isn't ready for playing time in the NBA yet. Just give the kid some time, my first reaction was that I hated this pick but it has grown on me. Just be paient with the kid and give him tell.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Does anybody even care about....

                      He played Granger out of position and more than he wanted to because he was forced to (Ron's trade demands and acquiring Peja, plus JO's injury.)

                      I still got the impression Rick was holding Danny back.

                      Rick won't give Harrison enough leeway to play through his foul problems.

                      We're not talking about whether or not he'll give the rookies a few minutes per game. Clearly he's doing that.

                      He won't commit to making these young players a key part of his system. We sure could've used another big man against Detroit in 2004 that could spread the floor and play a little defense. Perhaps Primoz Brezec?

                      Even if these guys get nominal playing time, Rick is not making a commitment to them. And that hurts the team in the long run. That's what many of us have been saying all along. The issue is Rick's lack of vision.
                      Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                      Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                      Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                      Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                      And life itself, rushing over me
                      Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                      Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Does anybody even care about....

                        Originally posted by Leisure Suit Larry View Post
                        I think he probably means the whole Michael Curry thing but I disagree because Rick's job is to coach the team and get wins, not build a team.
                        Not sure that's true.

                        Rick's actions indicated that - as a coach - he believes it is his job to win every regular season and playoff game he coaches.

                        That's a short-term view.

                        Its seems to me that Rick's job is get win playoff series. And to do that, you've got to spend the regular season building your team into a playoff team.

                        Rick defines everyone's role in training camp, based on their current abilities and his confidence in them, and barring injuries, that's that. He doesn't use the regular season properly - as a time to expiriment with and invest in his young players so that they might be in a position to help the team in the playoffs, when winning games really does matter.

                        Rick, like many people in cyberspace, seems to forget that the regular season itself has very little meaning other than developing a team for the postseason.
                        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                        And life itself, rushing over me
                        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Does anybody even care about....

                          What Jay said.

                          “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

                          “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Does anybody even care about....

                            Originally posted by Jay@Section204 View Post
                            Rick won't give Harrison enough leeway to play through his foul problems.
                            Right. Harrison was quick to get 2-3 fouls last season, but he seldom fouled out. (Does anyone know a source for how many times a player fouls out?)

                            Carlisle used Harrison in the rotation, but rarely relied on him for more than the set minutes. I've shown elsewhere (in the thread about "Do we have a Shaq stopper") that Harrison could have played 30 minutes per game before fouling out. He only averaged around 15 minutes thanks to coach's decisions.

                            Maybe Harrison did not deserve to be on the floor in the 4th quarter of games last season, but he was not kept off because of fouls.

                            [Just to stand behind Jay. I don't mean to derail the focus of the thread on S. Williams.]
                            And I won't be here to see the day
                            It all dries up and blows away
                            I'd hang around just to see
                            But they never had much use for me
                            In Levelland. (James McMurtry)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Does anybody even care about....

                              Jay you have to admit, Rick has not had a lot of talent to work with when it comes to youngsters here. It is not like he is holding back top notch talents. Most of what he has had to work with up until Danny has been project players that everyone knew from the beginning was going to take time to develop.

                              Although I will give you Primoz. He was ready to contribute on a nightly basis and was not given the opportunity. As is Harrison now. If Harrison is not playing meaningful minutes, is not a part of the regular rotation this season then I will happily eat some crow. Because this is the year he should be seeing 20 minutes a night, night in and night out.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Does anybody even care about....

                                I don't know that he'll really be ready though. I'm one of the biggest DH fans on here, and I think he's close to being ready to be a major contributor to the Pacers. But we're just prolonging the inevitable in terms of leaving him on the court with foul problems to either figure it out or not. Or we'll give up on him and some other coach will give him a chance.

                                David's not going to learn how to play through foul difficulty until he's allowed to play while in foul trouble (so that he learns how NOT to foul out.)

                                All that he's learned so far is that he's the one guy in the league that fouls out with only four fouls.

                                And I could understand sitting him down with four fouls if Rick was intending to bring him back later in the game. But he didn't. At four fouls, David was done.

                                Sure, there remains a possibility that David may never "get it" and always have foul problems. But Rick hasn't even invested enough time in David for anyone to really figure out if that's the case, either.

                                It takes 2-4 years for a big man to really learn how to play center in the NBA. I wonder if Rick's coaching has left David still 2-4 years away from that point?
                                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                                And life itself, rushing over me
                                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                                Comment

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