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Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

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  • #16
    Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

    I think I would trade Artest/Harrison for a quality big man and then see what happens. Jax can play the 3 easily he's 6'8 can post and shoot from the outside. Why not try and get a quality Center.... if ones available.

    Artest must be traded to a west coast team, or find a job at Circuit city.
    "He wanted to get to that money time. Time when the hardware was on the table. That's when Roger was going to show up. So all we needed to do was stay close"
    Darnell Hillman (Speaking of former teammate Roger Brown)

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    • #17
      Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

      To Uncle Buck from Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

      Dear Mr. Buck,

      Aren't you dead?

      Sincerely,
      Donnie Walsh
      Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

      ------

      "A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

      -John Wooden

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      • #18
        Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

        Originally posted by CableKC
        I only agree with this IF we are able to get a solid starting SF and some additional pieces in trading Artest.
        We've got one in Jax. And a good one in waiting with Granger. I strongly believe, though, that if Granger got the starting spot tomorrow, he'd be ready for the offseason by the time we got there.

        We need a shooting guard and a center.
        This space for rent.

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

          Originally posted by Bball
          To Uncle Buck from Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

          Dear Mr. Buck,

          Aren't you dead?

          Sincerely,
          Donnie Walsh
          2012 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

          2011 PD ABA Fantasy Keeper League Champion, sports.ws

          2006 PD ABA Fantasy League runner up, sports.ws

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

            UB, I agree with you, to a point. I'd like to see how Jax functions without Artest around. It's like separating two troublemakers to see if they behave better without the negative influence of the other to lead them astray. I've liked what I've seen from Jax these past two games. Harrison? I don't know yet, but if he can be added to a Tinsley/Artest package to help us get a solid veteran big man, then I'm all for it. But as far as I'm concerned, Ron and Jamaal must go now.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

              I can handle one or even two nut-jobs. So the list doesn't have to be completely remade. One or two (or even three) of our players would be enough. I'm not sure if I would limit it to the four folks listed here. I also don't think that Harrison is that big of a chemistry problem. He's a talent/skills problem first and fore-most.
              “Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.” - Winston Churchill

              “If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning.” - Catherine Aird

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              • #22
                Re: to quote the famous WWII general

                Originally posted by PacerMan
                NUTS

                You haven't got a CLUE whether this starts or ends with Ron Artest! We heard plenty about what a toxic lockerroom this idiot created in CHicago. Remember the supposed throwing of balls HARD over the heads of TEAMMATES sitting in the lockerroom? THink maybe stupid stunts like that would have EVERYONE in knots?????????

                WHen you have a toxic TEAM situation, especially a team with huge potential, you DO NOT GUT IT OVER ONE IDIOT. You dump his sorry *** and see what SMOOTHS OUT. If that isn't enough THEN YOU MAKE MORE MOVES. But I'll bet you $100 right now, that moving the dip**** solves our "chemistry" problems.
                Have NONE of you ever experienced this yourselves in sports? One guy can make everyone on edge. Take the fun out of day to day existence. Make practice a nightmare.

                We can plug Granger in at the 3 and we'll still be a strong team. IMMEDIATELY. RIght NOW. IN the playoffs, and a threat to anyone. NOBODY can even say "we won't be as good". His talent is way more than offset by his stupidity. We may be a BETTER team with the talent we've got now and this jerk in another city..
                Although UB will have to speak for himself....the only reason that I would support somehow shipping out Artest/SJax/Tinsley this season is not because of chemistry problems. The only reason that I would ship them out is because I see this as an opportunity to fix a recognized problem that the Pacers have been facing for the last 3 seasons.

                A ) Health and durability has been one fo the main factors as to why we can't advance past a team like the Pistons. Tinsley and JONeal are the main offenders here....but now that JONeal has ( by default ) become the team's best / franchise player...he is one of the players that we have to build around. If Tinsley didn't get injured as often but still had his attitude/supposed "pouting" ...then I would overlook his flaws and want to keep him.

                B ) Maturity is the key factor here. Although SJax ( by default ) becomes the 2nd best scorer.....I still see him as a player that allows his emotions to control his game that ultimately affects what he does on the court ( does that sound familiar ). Also....just because Artest is shipped off....it doesn't mean that SJax won't do something stupid or won't complain and whine about the smallest thing.

                Although Health and durability with Tinsley are of greater concern then the Maturity concern that I have with SJax....I doubt that there would be a way to ship off all 3 players in 1 trade. In the end...I could live with SJax as his problem is simply controlling his emotions....whereas Tinsley is just injured all the time...something you can't really control.

                BTW.....making such drastic moves would be contingent on several things happening....(A) that we can get back the type of players that Walsh/Bird wants that fits our style of play to replace 1/2 the entire starting lineup ( which appears unlikely ) or (B) that we are able to get a acceptable replacement at the SF spot that can keep us competitive for this season. I could see getting a suitable replacement starting quality SF as far more plausible then replacing all 3 positions during this regular season.
                Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                  Originally posted by Anthem
                  We've got one in Jax. And a good one in waiting with Granger. I strongly believe, though, that if Granger got the starting spot tomorrow, he'd be ready for the offseason by the time we got there.

                  We need a shooting guard and a center.
                  SG or SF...it doesn't matter....we're looking at replacing a starting position. But as I posted before.....I wouldn't mind replacing the SG/SF position with a player and then make a run at the Championship this season...then blow it all up during the offseason.

                  Also...I do not doubt that Granger is going to be a good player...I just don't see him making a significant impact this season. The guy is loaded with potential....but he is still a rookie...he is still prone to making stupid mistakes. I know that we can't figure out what Carlisle thinks sometimes....but there must be a reason ( other then the obvious "Carlisle sticks with veterans" reason ) why he isn't playing Granger other then the obvious.

                  If we believe that all we have to do is "subtract Artest/add XXX player" to make a run at the championship this season....then we do not have the luxury of allowing Granger to get as many minutes as possible and let him "figure it out". I really believe that Walsh/Bird will blow up the team and rebuild around the core players that they believe is worthy of keeping. If they don't do it now....they will do it by the offseason after we lose in the playoffs.
                  Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                    Trading Harrison would be stupid as hell.

                    Tinsley's problems come from his injuries. I think he is a team player.

                    Jack, I dunno. On one end, he devotes himself to the team with his defense and rebounding, and on the other he's a one-on-one player.

                    No one besides Artest -has- to go, but I could see Jack or Tins getting tossed in there.
                    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

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                    • #25
                      Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                      Ron Artest and David Harrison (reluctantly Harrison) should be dealt. For some reason Rick Carlisle has absolutely no confidence in Harrison , while David sits his attitude gets bad , he is clearly frustrated.

                      David Harrison has ability but I'm not sure he'll ever develop it. Harrison made the nba after only playing 2 years of high school varsity and 3 years of college , he has been able to get by on potential , not sure if its lack of effort in practice or Carlisle's reluctance to play young guys but its not working for him here.

                      All I say about Artest , is I never trusted him to change and tho he has immense talent , I doubt he'll ever change no matter how many "new starts " he gets. For all involved he should be traded , last season his suspension ended any true bond with his teammates. He was like the love intrest who cheats on you , you can forgive but never completely forget or completely trust them again. No matter how much you may wish to.

                      Jamaal Tinsley when focused is a very good point guard but at times he gets into one upsmanship duels with other point guards. He also needs his ego stroked too often , he is too moody. In addition he seems far too injury prone , I won't question the sinus situation as someone who's nose has been broken 5 times playing sports , I sympathize but I also know there is surgery to help with that chronic condition.

                      Stephen Jackson ,Jack while moody seems to be able to refocus quicker than Tinsley. We have noticed without Artest the last couple games he has gone to the hole more and seems to have become more inspired on defense , he had an Artest like 4 steals vs the Grizzlies. Even tho he and Jermaine have had several run ins , they seem to bond well. Their situation to me in the run ins is like a sibling thing, quickly forgotten.

                      Jemaine O'Neal to me is the one core Pacer you do not move unless its for KG or Duncan. He will never be Mr Calm like Duncan. Jermaine like Jackson will let his emotions show , but also refocuses quickly. He has shown that he can be a top 5-10 player and stay in control .

                      At this point Jermaine must be kept he is the hub , Jackson though disliked by many does have championship experience and an all around game. Jamaal to me should be closely watched when he is healthy , with Sarunas we have an adequite replacement for him and when JT gets in his moods yank him , its time he learns it won't be tolerated , same goes for Stephen.

                      So I guess in summation Ron has said he wants out so its time to do just that, cut our losses before the whole team implodes , unfortunatley Harrison may have to be packaged with Ron. But I'm not in favor of a total remake just yet.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                        Originally posted by Bball
                        To Uncle Buck from Pacers Sports and Entertainment.

                        Dear Mr. Buck,

                        Aren't you dead?

                        Sincerely,
                        Donnie Walsh


                        I tried to end it all, but the damn snow cushioned my fall, and I survived, better and stronger than ever

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                          It is a hoot to go over to Realgm and look at all the preposterous trade proposals.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                            We should try somehow to get one of the good, quick, young point guards out there.

                            Yes, I would trade Tinsley, if the P's don't care for his locker room influence. And I think there is a chance TPTB don't.

                            Harrison would stay unless he is needed in a trade for another big. Centers take time to develop and I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water.

                            I doubt Jack is a cancer or bad teammate. He's a versatile player who we will probably need. A lot depends on what players we get back in trades.

                            The Pacers should also use this opportunity to get their luxury tax situation in better hand for next year and beyond. The current situation is unexceptable for the long term well-being of the franchise.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                              Originally posted by Unclebuck
                              Dear Donnie, Larry and the Simons:

                              In many ways this is a great opportunity for the Indiana Pacers franshise. Whether you wanted it or not, the franchise stands at a crossroads, that goes much deeper than just Ron Artest. Now is the time to change the entire makeup of the Pacers team.

                              Yes Artest has forced your hand, but please don't stop at just trading Artest. For the past 4 years or so the approach was to win with talent. Talent first, character second. Well that has not worked as well as I thought it would. So please trade Artest but also trade Tinsley, Jackson and Harrison. Now is the time to re-make the whole team with players who are completely committed to the "team" Right now there is a unique opportunity that does not come along very often. The Pacers fans will understand a complete make-over and if that means taking a small step back in order to cleanse the franchise, I myself as a season ticket holder will support you.

                              This quote by Saras sums it up rather well, "We have five guys on the court who really want to play, who are excited about being on the court," said point guard Sarunas Jasikevicius, who took just two shots but passed out a game-high eight assists. "The guys want to help each other defensively, they want to share the ball on offense."

                              http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...plate=printart.

                              I implore you to re-think the entire team, please do not try a patchwork approach to changing the team. Please acquire players who are team first players and winners, players who are selfless.

                              I would recommend keeping players who perhaps have less talent, but are totally committed to the idea of playing team ball. That includes players such as Anthony Johnson, Saras, Danny Granger, Jeff Foster, Austin Croshere, and Jermaine O'Neal. Players who only judge themselves on whether the team wins or loses.

                              Please include David Harrison in one of the two or three trades that need to be made. He simply won't fit into the "new Pacers". Yes he is talented, but we need to cleanse the franchise of any problems or possible problems.

                              I can only speak for myself when I say this, but I will support the franchise during this very difficult time, and I realize a step back my be necessary. The Pacers might not be able to challenge The Pistons or the Spurs this season, but that is OK. Remember be bold and creative. The entire scab needs to be pulled. Complete reconstructive surgery is needed.

                              Donnie you have re-made the franchise before and you can do it again, what makes it more difficult is you must remake it during the season.

                              Good luck

                              Unclebuck
                              Oh if only I could go back & bring up threads from the summer of 00 when I had to listen over & over & over again how we needed more talented less team oriented players.

                              How we had to make this youth movement & that in two years tops we would be right back in the title hunt.

                              This is not at you U.B. because you weren't even U.B. then (you were Pacers for all) but this is to my friends speed, Akmand40, Brich, Brichard, Pman & mostly to you PacersFanForLife.

                              Talent alone will win you nothing!!!!!! You have to have talent to win, no doubt, but you have to have players willing to submit to a system & to each other to have any chance at all.

                              As to your letter U.B., I agree with the theory of it. Actually I'm all for it but I am also of this mindset here.

                              Let's see how the team does without Artest. I do beleive that he was that big of a distraction to the team. I never thought he was the only one, but he was the main event.


                              Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Open letter to the Pacers, "Don't stop at Artest"

                                Originally posted by diamonddave00
                                Ron Artest and David Harrison (reluctantly Harrison) should be dealt. For some reason Rick Carlisle has absolutely no confidence in Harrison , while David sits his attitude gets bad , he is clearly frustrated.

                                David Harrison has ability but I'm not sure he'll ever develop it. Harrison made the nba after only playing 2 years of high school varsity and 3 years of college , he has been able to get by on potential , not sure if its lack of effort in practice or Carlisle's reluctance to play young guys but its not working for him here.

                                All I say about Artest , is I never trusted him to change and tho he has immense talent , I doubt he'll ever change no matter how many "new starts " he gets. For all involved he should be traded , last season his suspension ended any true bond with his teammates. He was like the love intrest who cheats on you , you can forgive but never completely forget or completely trust them again. No matter how much you may wish to.

                                Jamaal Tinsley when focused is a very good point guard but at times he gets into one upsmanship duels with other point guards. He also needs his ego stroked too often , he is too moody. In addition he seems far too injury prone , I won't question the sinus situation as someone who's nose has been broken 5 times playing sports , I sympathize but I also know there is surgery to help with that chronic condition.

                                Stephen Jackson ,Jack while moody seems to be able to refocus quicker than Tinsley. We have noticed without Artest the last couple games he has gone to the hole more and seems to have become more inspired on defense , he had an Artest like 4 steals vs the Grizzlies. Even tho he and Jermaine have had several run ins , they seem to bond well. Their situation to me in the run ins is like a sibling thing, quickly forgotten.

                                Jemaine O'Neal to me is the one core Pacer you do not move unless its for KG or Duncan. He will never be Mr Calm like Duncan. Jermaine like Jackson will let his emotions show , but also refocuses quickly. He has shown that he can be a top 5-10 player and stay in control .

                                At this point Jermaine must be kept he is the hub , Jackson though disliked by many does have championship experience and an all around game. Jamaal to me should be closely watched when he is healthy , with Sarunas we have an adequite replacement for him and when JT gets in his moods yank him , its time he learns it won't be tolerated , same goes for Stephen.

                                So I guess in summation Ron has said he wants out so its time to do just that, cut our losses before the whole team implodes , unfortunatley Harrison may have to be packaged with Ron. But I'm not in favor of a total remake just yet.
                                Excellant post!
                                "Just look at the flowers ........ BANG"

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