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Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

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If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

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When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

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Bonzi to the Pacers?

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  • #46
    Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

    Originally posted by foretaz
    if reports are true...and its difficult for any of us to really know for sure....but if they are...its as follows...

    bonzi uses illegal substances-drugs-marijuana...whatever

    ron does not...

    realize i say these are reports that seem valid....if they are...and i do mean if....

    then,
    in my book that does make ron a better person...unquestionably....i might be in the minority...but thats how i personally feel on the matter...
    Pure nonsense.

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

      Originally posted by Harmonica
      Pure nonsense.

      umm...which part is nonsense?

      the part that bonzi has/does use illegal substances?

      the part that ron doesnt?

      the part that if these both are true that in my book it makes ron a better person?

      or that u think its ok to use illegal substances? to which i stated i might be in the minority

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

        Originally posted by foretaz
        umm...which part is nonsense?

        the part that bonzi has/does use illegal substances?

        the part that ron doesnt?

        the part that if these both are true that in my book it makes ron a better person?

        or that u think its ok to use illegal substances? to which i stated i might be in the minority
        I've smoked marijuana, Bin Laden hasn't. Or put anyone's name there.

        In your book, that makes them a better person.

        Your logic is pure nonsense.

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

          Trading Artest for Bonzi is just goofy.

          I'm all for dealing Artest but why trade one problem for another?

          As for who's worse, it's irrelevant - both are problems and any team would be better served by not having either of them.
          The poster formerly known as Rimfire

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

            Originally posted by Peck
            I have no real interest in Bonzi at this point either, but for the love of God let's not act like he is a worse person than Ron.
            I really don't have the slightest idea who is the worse person

            But I do know Ron is a much better player than Bonzi, so yes I'm willing to put up with more for a great player.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

              Originally posted by vapacersfan
              Foretaz,
              No offense, but every time Ron Artest comes up, you are right there. Are you his agent or something?
              hardly...but i guess thats better than just bringing him up when his name isnt even mentioned with only the intent of saying ill things about him....i guess i would rather be one who responds to such behavior than actually be the one that finds it necessary to just bring up a guy and say bad things about someone because of personal dislike for the guy-which i wont even go into the merits of such feelings and how i feel about them...

              Gezze, I had childhood issues, and when I come home from a bad day (like getting a 45 on a biology test) and punch the wall, guess what, I am held accountable for my actions.
              the childhood issues i speak of do not consist of flunking a test in school...u know it...and i know it....and to compare the two...well....is ludicrous and u know it....shall we debate the effects of flunking a test versus being brought up in an abusive household?? surely u dont really want to go there...

              and notice....no where did i ever say someone should not be held accountable for their actions, ever...and u know that too..


              Oh, and beleive it not, a lot of guys in the NBA smoke weed. I know for a fact more then 3 of the Pacers that do.....
              oh...i totally believe that...its public knowledge the nba has a major marijuana problem....not that that is much different from society in general....that doesnt change my stance...just because lots of people do it...lots of nba players cheat on their wives-as due lots in society...doesnt mean i have to personallly approve...and even still...one is illegal and one isnt...

              i personally have a major problem with anyone that uses illegal drugs, no matter what they might be....and lose a ton of respect for those that do....but as i said...i might be in the minority on that one....but, much like the color of my font, dont look for that to change...i have very personal reasons for both....and nothing can change those reasons or take them away...

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                Originally posted by foretaz
                i guess all i can say is wow....

                not sure what makes these any of these guys bums...

                but anyway....i know i certainly feel it is inappropriate and rather uninformed to characterize someone as a bum who has rather deepseated childhood issues that are not yet resolved and therefore has impulse reaction tendencies that are subpar....

                let alone when that persons value system seems to be focused on family first...

                to classify ron in the same group as bonzi...well...given their obviously different legal histories and most noteably their different attitudes....well...i would call that uninformed as well....but then i dont think those that have this obvious unfounded disdain for ron, or jo for that matter, really care what i think or anyone else thinks...its obviously based on bitterness and resentment first and foremost....with very little objectivity given where the facts are concerned....




                Well, at least we know for sure that this guy isn't Sassan.

                For lack of a better word, "bum" can mean, "Guy you don't want on your team at any costs", which is pretty close to what Jerry West said about Ron last summer, so that doesn't even include Ron's last couple of incidents.

                Different attitudes? Bonzi's stuff gets lots of publicity, but are you actually advocating that Ron is less of a headache than Bonzi? "Very little objectivity where the facts are concerned..." Okay, lets look at some facts about Ron, since the facts about Bonzi have already been posted above.
                • The guy who chucked a piece of weighlifting equipment across the training room in an argument with Floyd or Krause (don't remember which one off the top of my head);
                • the guy who, while pouting, was well-known to fake injuries to finger as a member of the Bulls (although The Star has admitted to covering-up for Ron in the past, so at best its inconclusive evidence since the trade);
                • the guy famous for tirades that intimidate his teammates, such as tearing his picture off the walls (plural), throwing stuff at them, shoving Mel Daniels when he was trying to help him, etc.;
                • the guy benched for "conduct detrimental to winning";
                • the guy who had to be forced onto the team plane in Miami during the playoffs;
                • the guy who skipped shootaround the day before and the team flight on the day of the biggest game of his life - Game #6 of the 2004 ECFs, allegedgly with a migraine (but later confirmed to be "issues at home");
                • the guy who Rick was screaming at to give the ball to JO during the fourth quarter of the same game, but instead tried to dunk on four Pistons then jacked up a 30-foot three pointer with sixteen seconds still on the shotclock, then complained immediately after the game that he wasn't the #1 option and later in the summer told Slam Magazine that he was the team's MVP - he later contradicted himself and said that he and JO were "both the team's MVP";
                • the guy who got in a fight with JO in the lockerroom when tried to "retire" only five games into the season.
                I'm not even talking about the guy who couldn't keep his cool on the basketball court with all the flagrant fouls, cheap shots, tirades at opposing coaches and fans and vicious HDTV cameras.

                You can say you've got hope that Ron has figured it out, and while I find that quite naive, its a fine opinion.

                "...Uninformed to call him a bum..." No, if anything its uninformed for everyone to speculate on Ron's mental health. We've all heard rumors that he needs medications, but there have been other players in league history that have needed medications so I've got to believe that the teams believe he's 'sane' enough to enter into a guaranteed contract with. I'm not convinced he's "all there", but I try not to make assumptions about his mental health (and I consider his inability to handle pressure to be a common, human problem not limited to people with poor levels of mental health.)

                But its funny, when I list a bunch of facts from Ron's history both before he joined the Pacers and after, its "obviously based on bitterness and resentment" on my part. Like its somehow my fault that Ron did all that crap and I won't let him off the hook as easily as some of the rest of you.

                If anything, I'm not all that bitter at Ron. He's been everything I expected him to be for the Pacers: Ron has big-time talent that he wastes with extraordinary levels of disruption that prevent the rest of the team from reaching their potential. If anything, I'm bitter at DW and Bird for keeping him around this long.

                Sure, Bonzi has more legal trouble.

                Peck, to the best of my knowledge, Ron had one domestic assault charge from the threatening message he left on the answering machine for one of the mothers of his children. However, when the police were called to his house for a domestic disturbance, it was because of another mother of Ron's children, not Ron losing his temper.

                By all accounts, people that know Ron say he's a great father, charitable to a fault, and a good guy that happens to be a loner. And that's great, but its how he handles himself (can't control himself) on the basketball court and in the lockerroom that matters to me, as a Pacers fan.

                Everyone, veteran players are not tested for marijuana.

                So just because the player hasn't been arrested should not be considered conclusive evidence that they are not 'using'. That's a real weakness in the league's current drug testing program, and there have been published estimates of just how many players in the league use marijuana and prefer it to alcohol because its an easier loophole in the drug testing environment for those guys.
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                  Originally posted by Harmonica
                  I've smoked marijuana, Bin Laden hasn't. Or put anyone's name there.

                  In your book, that makes them a better person.

                  Your logic is pure nonsense.
                  u choose to compare ur doing pot with bin ladens killing thousands of innocent people.....and im the one whose logic is pure nonsense????

                  seriously....

                  ron artest is a basketball player

                  bonzi wells is a basketball player(well sorta)

                  we dont have tons of personal knowledge regarding them both....what we do know is this...and its purported in some cases...which is why i said if all is true...

                  bonzi has used illegal substances and been convicted of doing so....bonzi seems to show little or no remorse for his actions-he chooses to do such and shows every sign of continuing to do so...

                  ron hasnt used illegal drugs or been convicted of doing so....
                  any mistakes hes made hes regretted and showed a willingness to try and better himself-and given his upbringing-working these issues thru is important...and we have seen signs that he has improved...

                  you have smoked pot...so of course u think nothing of it....and its not surprising that u wouldnt put much credence in it....

                  and thats why i dont put much credibility in people like urself....its a personal issue with me...i dont expect others to agree....and dont care either...

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                    So there's my answer, Harmonica is "ur".

                    http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/s...6&page=2&pp=25
                    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                    And life itself, rushing over me
                    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                      I think that I lost a few brain cells reading this thread.

                      The last thing any team needs is a bench player who will never accept being a bench player and be a perpetual distraction because he feels underappreciated by being paid millions to be a 6th or 7th man.

                      Casting all off-court issues aside, Bonzi is nowhere nearly as good as he thinks he is, and that will always be a huge problem for his coaches and teammates.

                      So add a page full of "never, ever" for me.
                      The poster "pacertom" since this forum began (and before!). I changed my name here to "Slick Pinkham" in honor of the imaginary player That Bobby "Slick" Leonard picked late in the 1971 ABA draft (true story!).

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                        Originally posted by vapacersfan
                        So basically you are going to go around and patrol what people do any say. You can keep doing that and defend RA, Ill just keep you on ignore form here on out.

                        I will gladly go there, but you will just reiterate the same crap. You notice people who grow up in "abusive household" dont have issues untill they fail or get frustrated. I would say my example was pretty frustrating (yes, I know it is/was)
                        hmmm...interesting that u would say i defend ra....because i dont really feel that way...but if u choose to view it as such...fine...i do however respond from time to time when someone provides an unsolicited attack on someone that cant defend themself...call me a good samaritan if it makes u feel better..

                        this thread was about the possibility of bonzi coming here...and someone somehow found it important to bash ron and compare the two....forgive me if i fail to see how someone personally feels about ron artest has anything to do with bonzi wells coming to the pacers...i havent seen anyone else mention their personal feelings about how they feel about any of the other 14 players and how that might make them feel about bonzi becoming a pacer...

                        yea...so as long as others look for any opportunity to spew their personal venom towards any of the pacers i might respond....if someone wants to debate a players performance im all for that....bashing a player because of personal disdain for that player is ridiculous in my mind...but despite that, ill probably respond from time to time...

                        maybe if u spent a little less time worrying about people 'defending' and a little more time with those 'attacking' ....well nevermind...you appear to not get it

                        the ignore is a feature of this board just like color of font is....everyone is free to use them as they would like...i would encourage u and everyone to do so as they see fit or however they might be inclined...

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                          Originally posted by foretaz
                          u choose to compare ur doing pot with bin ladens killing thousands of innocent people.....and im the one whose logic is pure nonsense????

                          seriously....

                          ron artest is a basketball player

                          bonzi wells is a basketball player(well sorta)

                          we dont have tons of personal knowledge regarding them both....what we do know is this...and its purported in some cases...which is why i said if all is true...

                          bonzi has used illegal substances and been convicted of doing so....bonzi seems to show little or no remorse for his actions-he chooses to do such and shows every sign of continuing to do so...

                          ron hasnt used illegal drugs or been convicted of doing so....
                          any mistakes hes made hes regretted and showed a willingness to try and better himself-and given his upbringing-working these issues thru is important...and we have seen signs that he has improved...

                          you have smoked pot...so of course u think nothing of it....and its not surprising that u wouldnt put much credence in it....

                          and thats why i dont put much credibility in people like urself....its a personal issue with me...i dont expect others to agree....and dont care either...
                          Well, you'll notice I said, insert anyone's name there. Put yours there for all I care. Your logic is still nonsense. And no I don't put much credence in it because those who know me know what kind of a person I am, and it's certainly not based on whether I've smoked pot or not. And I can assure you, my little purple-letter loving friend, whether you put much credibility in people like me is simply comical.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                            Originally posted by foretaz
                            -snip-
                            this thread was about the possibility of bonzi coming here...and someone somehow found it important to bash ron and compare the two....forgive me if i fail to see how someone personally feels about ron artest has anything to do with bonzi wells coming to the pacers...


                            Wow, that's simplistic.

                            Bonzi joins the Pacers under one of two scenarios:

                            1) We trade Ron to get him; or
                            2) We trade somebody other than Ron to get him, and Ron and Bonzi become teammates.

                            So the possibility of Bonzi coming here *MUST* be analyzed under each of those two scenarios. You can't just look at Bonzi in a vacuum. This isn't a fantasy basketball league, these are real people and chemistry is a real criteria in making decisions, not just stats or on-court talent.

                            Under the first, you're just trading a very talented disruption for a less-talented law-breaker. We don't know if Bonzi is "as disruptive" as Ron is, behind the scenes, but many think he won't accept his role as a sixth- or seventh- man, since he hasn't really accepted it in Memphis either.

                            Under the second,


                            Either way, this is not only an appropriate discussion, its the most logical way to have a discussion on the subject.
                            Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                            Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                            Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                            Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                            And life itself, rushing over me
                            Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                            Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                              Originally posted by vapacersfan
                              I get tired of both, and sadly just as Sassan got old, every time I see your name it seems there is a Ron Artest debate going on......

                              well nevermind...you appear to not get it..........
                              well...maybe u should take a closer look seriously do...peruse the threads...and not that it matters....because i dont want to get into a 'he started it' type conversation....but this is a message board where we type thoughts and then others respond, no? i will tell u....i in no way ever defend rons inappropriate actions....

                              however, im not sure how rons inappropriate actions entitle people on this message board to take an equally inappropriate action and bad mouth a person....one of the boards supposed prerequisites is respect....i would assume that holds true for the posters as well as the team that we so devotedly follow....

                              i find the disrespecting of certain players on this team to be a bit hypocritical....criticize and call out a players performances all u would like....call me a bum, or any of the players a bum....or liken me or any player to something grossly negative....well...to me that shows a tremendous lack of respect....

                              if ever ive been disrespectful...ill apologize...

                              based on some of the attitudes ive seen from some on here, not only would they not do that-they would revel in the fact that they didnt...

                              and thats sad...

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                              • #60
                                Re: Bonzi to the Pacers?

                                Originally posted by Jay@Section204
                                [/color]

                                Wow, that's simplistic.

                                Bonzi joins the Pacers under one of two scenarios:

                                1) We trade Ron to get him; or
                                2) We trade somebody other than Ron to get him, and Ron and Bonzi become teammates.

                                So the possibility of Bonzi coming here *MUST* be analyzed under each of those two scenarios. You can't just look at Bonzi in a vacuum. This isn't a fantasy basketball league, these are real people and chemistry is a real criteria in making decisions, not just stats or on-court talent.

                                Under the first, you're just trading a very talented disruption for a less-talented law-breaker. We don't know if Bonzi is "as disruptive" as Ron is, behind the scenes, but many think he won't accept his role as a sixth- or seventh- man, since he hasn't really accepted it in Memphis either.

                                Under the second,


                                Either way, this is not only an appropriate discussion, its the most logical way to have a discussion on the subject.
                                yes...true...except for two things....

                                he could be traded for 14 other players...none of whom have been mentioned...

                                and if bonzi joins the team he will have 13 other teammates besides ron....i havent seen anything on that matter either....

                                so really...whos being simplistic?

                                and then the real truth....review the post that interjected ron into this thread....and tell me u really think that either of those 2 reasons had anything to do with rons insertion into this thread...

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