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Pierce Being Shopped

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  • #61
    Re: Pierce Being Shopped

    Originally posted by diamonddave00
    I'll just start with contracts of Artest and Pierce.

    Paul Pierce (28) 2005-06 13.8 mil , 2006-07 15.1 mil., 2007-08 player option 16.3 mil = 2 yr 28.9 with opt out, 3 yr 45.2 mil

    Ron Artest (26) 2005-06 6.5 mil, 2006-07 7.1 mil , 2007-08 7.8 mil, 2008-09 player option 8.4 = 2yrs 13.6 mil , 3 yr 21.4 mil , play opt 4th yr 29.8 mil

    Right off the bat the imbalance in salary means 7.3 must be added from the Pacer side , plus I'm sure with Ron's history a #1 will have to be included.

    With Artest's supposive low trade value currently means a decent player like Fred Jones would have to be included too plus Pollards salary.

    We are now looking at Artest, F.Jones , Pollard and a #1 for Pierce.

    Plus with his opt out we may only have Pierce for 2 years. Sorry to me thats far too high a price to pay .
    wow...i wouldnt even do artest and pierce straight up

    let alone adding freddie, a pick, and scot

    Comment


    • #62
      Re: Pierce Being Shopped

      Originally posted by Unclebuck
      PacerFanAdam, you don't seen to value and appreciate what all Artest brings to the game. The defense, the energy, the physicallness, and the confidence that he provides to the team cannot be overstated.

      Let's also not forget the other things he brings to the table as well. The cheap shots, the sulking, the dirty play & the team turmoil that he provides to the team cannot be overstated.

      You can sit there and say that certain players are better players than Artest, but I think that is missing the point, the most important thing is the overall effect Ron has on a game. I admit it is difficult to quantitfy - but Ron helps his team win in so many ways, many more ways than almost any player in the NBA

      Also no player in the history of the NBA has cost his team more losses than Ron Artest did this last year. He helped his team lose in so many ways, many more ways than any player in the NBA.

      He's a top 10 player, no doubt in my mind.
      He wasn't evena bottom 10 talent for every game but 7 last season.


      Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

      Comment


      • #63
        Re: Pierce Being Shopped

        My prior post was in response to whether Artest is a top ten player, so I narrowly addressed that. I did not get into what effect his distractions have on him being a top ten player.

        If you consider he only played 7 games, he might have been the 226 most procutive player this past season.

        Comment


        • #64
          Re: Pierce Being Shopped

          Originally posted by Peck
          He wasn't evena bottom 10 talent for every game but 7 last season.
          peck....i respect u...and thats why i ask this question....

          when u speak of artest....its like u become someone other than urself....

          u dont speak of opponents players the way you do of artest...in fact u never speak like u do when u discuss artest....its just so, so far out of character for u....

          why?....theres a fine line between love and hate, i know....but its almost like the sheer mention of artest seems to just hit a button and u become some other person....the obvious negative emotion u feel towards him just seems to be so out of character....

          and i cant understand, why...these types of emotions are usually only reserved for very personal relationships....its almost like u react like a woman scorned would....but im assuming thats far from the truth....

          so, again, im curious....why is it so personal with u where ron is concerned versus ur typical take on all other players and issues-a usually fairly unbiased and rational approach....im just very intriqued how a basketball player of any kind can evoke such a dramatic, somewhat irrational response from someone that appears to be just the opposite....

          so again, i ask with all due respect....why?

          Comment


          • #65
            Re: Pierce Being Shopped

            Yeah! #226! Whoo!

            If he's a top ten player, then he's #10. He's not a top 5 player and he's not a franchise player, period. He's the opposite of a franchise player. I tend to value big guys higher and I also judge by what they did THIS season, so here's the list:

            1. Shaq
            2. Duncan
            3. Garnett
            4. Dirk
            5. Amare (interchangable with #4)
            6. Allen Iverson
            7. LeBron James
            8. Dwyane Wade
            9. Tracy McGrady
            10. Kobe Bryant

            Then the rest is kind of a gray area. Steve Nash? Shaun Marion? Elton Brand, Gil Arenas, or J-Kidd? Ray Allen? I would be hard pressed to rank Artest ahead of the first 10 especially, but I don't think I could rank him ahead of these guys either.

            Comment


            • #66
              Re: Pierce Being Shopped

              Originally posted by able
              Pierce is not a good fit for the Pacers, will never be a Pacer and is in general overrated, why else would teams trade him yet again?
              I don't believe that he has ever been traded has he? Maybe you are confusing him with Walker. Anyway, as far as his attitude goes, I would probably have a poor one if I was stuck on such crapy teams as he has been on. Not to mention the coaching changes every 2 years. I think under Rick he would improve his attitude. Heck, just knowing he was going to be on a winner would have to help. Is he as talented as Ron? No. But what he has between the ears is sounder, which makes him the safer player to have.

              We may all think Ron was screwed in his suspension this past season, but he made that bed himself. As I try to teach my kids, your reputation is everything. When you earn a bad one it only hurts you. Ron is going to be on probation, stated or not, for the rest of his career. The team has to question how much they can trust him to not implode and screw them again. I know I don't trust him right now, but I hope he comes back and proves me wrong.

              Comment


              • #67
                Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                Originally posted by canyoufeelit
                Yeah! #226! Whoo!

                If he's a top ten player, then he's #10. He's not a top 5 player and he's not a franchise player, period. He's the opposite of a franchise player. I tend to value big guys higher and I also judge by what they did THIS season, so here's the list:

                1. Shaq
                2. Duncan
                3. Garnett
                4. Dirk
                5. Amare (interchangable with #4)
                6. Allen Iverson
                7. LeBron James
                8. Dwyane Wade
                9. Tracy McGrady
                10. Kobe Bryant

                Then the rest is kind of a gray area. Steve Nash? Shaun Marion? Elton Brand, Gil Arenas, or J-Kidd? Ray Allen? I would be hard pressed to rank Artest ahead of the first 10 especially, but I don't think I could rank him ahead of these guys either.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                  I have a really hard time putting a player in the top ten if they are a defensive liability, and I refuse to put a player in the top 5 if they are a defensive liability

                  Sorry, Dirk, sorry Nash, sorry Amare, sorry Iverson

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                    Originally posted by Shade
                    I think some of you haven't seen Ronnie play in so long that your last image of him has skewed your perception of his game. Ron Artest is very arguably a Top 10 player -- Top 15 AT WORST. Don't confuse your anger/disappointment at Ronnie with his game. There's a reason we were titled a championship contender with him, and lost w/o him.
                    Like I said, he is very likely a top 10/15 talent, but NOWHERE NEAR a top 10/15 player. If Ron were a top 15 player, he would actually play the games, and we would never be worrying about how all the stupid ***** he does affects the team.

                    If Ron were a top 15 player, we'd probably still be playing right now.
                    You, Never? Did the Kenosha Kid?

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                      All the debate of Ron for Pierce I believe is ultimately moot as Ainge would almost never ship Pierce to eastern conference team, especially a contending
                      one like the Pacers. And especially not to a team with Bird as the GM.
                      IF the Pacers could get Pierce in my dream scenario I would give up
                      Jackson and Pollard and a 1st. Wait a minute, if I am going to dream, dream BIG. Bender and Croshere should do the trick.

                      I guess a question we should ask ourselves is would the Pacers have made it to the finals with Pierce added to this years roster with Artest out?
                      Now that is something to ponder. Of course Pollard and the number 1 would be
                      gone probably.


                      owl
                      {o,o}
                      |)__)
                      -"-"-

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                        artest was 3rd team all nba and DPOY in the 2003-04 season...that would be a good argument for him being in the top 15....

                        some of u people who seem to have this great disdain for artest should do this:

                        pick a sf that you would rather have if ur gonna play a game against any opponent that gives u a better chance to win that game....forget all the personal feelings and whatever....ur supposed to be pacers fans...you dont have to love everyone on the team....but pick the sf that gives the pacers the best chance to win any given game....pure basketball....

                        odds of picking a player that gives them a better chance to win are slim...let alone being able to get that player....one might argue lebron or something-which is whole other debate-because u want ron on ur team because he can neutralize that other great sf-something they really cant do to him....

                        artest gives the pacers the best chance to win a game at the sf spot, which translates into regular season victories and then playoff victories...u look at his salary and it just makes it that much clearer of an argument....

                        yes...he needs to be on the floor to do that...but though he sat out last season due to suspension....the odds of him having something like that happen again are astronomical....he played the whole season prior basically without incident...and last season was a fluke...and anyone that cant see that isnt being very objective....the things that had to transpire for him to miss the season were simply bizarre...

                        if u hate him fine....if u are the type that simply cant forgive...fine...i have my own feelings on that -but theyre irrelevant....hes a pacer...and he gives ur pacers a great chance to win games and he brings an effort to every game that is unsurpassed in the nba-something that many of u whine so much about when it comes to other players....

                        he has his faults like all humans....dont hate him for it...u dont have to love...just dont hate him...love the team...and realize all the positives he brings instead of dwelling on the few negatives....every player has negatives....and dwelling on them is counterproductive....i thought trolls were the ones that typically like to continue to spout off about a teams little problems....

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                          Originally posted by foretaz
                          artest was 3rd team all nba and DPOY in the 2003-04 season...that would be a good argument for him being in the top 15....

                          he brings an effort to every game that is unsurpassed in the nba-something that many of u whine so much about when it comes to other players....

                          he has his faults like all humans....dont hate him for it...u dont have to love...just dont hate him...love the team...and realize all the positives he brings instead of dwelling on the few negatives....every player has negatives....and dwelling on them is counterproductive....i thought trolls were the ones that typically like to continue to spout off about a teams little problems....
                          First, Bruce Bowan was 2nd vote getter for DPY and I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top players in the league, so that alone is not enough. Second, while Ron does give max effort every game, he isn't the only guy in the leqague that does nor does this energy always used positively for the team. If he is all out but out of control it does no good. I'm not just talking being wacky, but also making good basketball decisions.

                          Your last statement that I highlighted is the most important one. If you consider Ron's emotional control, or lack there of, to be a little problem for this team then I need some of what you are taking. This next season is going hinge on this more than anything else. Tins and J.O. being healthy won't matter if Ron has not changed. We don't have Reggie to bail us out, so after Ron it doesn't look good.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                            why cant we be friends why cant we be friends! sorry, just felt like breaking into song haha

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                              Here is my feel on all this.

                              Ron Artest is going to shock a lot of people this season, because I believe his real breakout season was delayed. I think last year he was on his way to the best season on both sides of the ball that he had ever had. I also think he would have been a second teamer this past season. When I saw the way he took the team on his shoulders to start the season in the 7 games with Jermaine, Reggie, Jeff and Anthony hurt, I was shocked. I saw a new player. When he wasn't there for the two games Rick benched him for... We weren't the same team. He showed me that he was the best player on the team and that he was ready to take the team to new heights. If i'm not mistaken, we won all 7 games he played this year... correct?

                              He is going to have a breakout year this season regaining the DPOY award and averaging 20+ points a game. Then you'll all be glad we didn't trade him.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                                Originally posted by SycamoreKen
                                First, Bruce Bowan was 2nd vote getter for DPY and I wouldn't put him anywhere near the top players in the league, so that alone is not enough. Second, while Ron does give max effort every game, he isn't the only guy in the leqague that does nor does this energy always used positively for the team. If he is all out but out of control it does no good. I'm not just talking being wacky, but also making good basketball decisions.

                                ron was dpoy in addition to 3rd team all nba....the all nba teams are roughly speaking the best 15 players in the league...with the first team being roughly the best 5...2nd team being the next best 5 etc....him being 3rd team all nba combined with dpoy makes for a very good argument when saying hes one of the top 15...

                                only a handful of players in the league 'bring it' like ron does every nite....his level of intensity on both ends of the floor is quite impressive...and i stated it was unsurpassed and not interested in arguing whether its matched or not-its really not important...when a player of his talents comes with that sort of intensity every nite....well it speaks volumes...

                                as far as him being wacky....and his basketball decisions...there is a reason hes an allstar, all nba, and dpoy...because those that truly understand the game realize that when u bring that level of intensity every nite there are bound to be times that maybe it gets a little out of focus....you play that close to the edge and things will go south every once in a while...however its the exception and not the rule...and the overall performance-as with any player-is what counts...and his overall performance on both ends of the floor is seldom matched in this league

                                people should use the same barometer with ron as they do other players....noone excuses ron for his inappropriate behavior....he has made more than his fair share of mistakes....but he seems to be improving...and it is quite likely he will have a season much like the season from two years ago as far as extracurricular activities go-and will probably have a monster season as far as production goes-which will go a long way in helping the pacers achieve their team goals....and hopefully go a long way in quieting those that seem to have such disdain for artest-though im not gonna hold my breath


                                Originally posted by SycamoreKen
                                Your last statement that I highlighted is the most important one. If you consider Ron's emotional control, or lack there of, to be a little problem for this team then I need some of what you are taking. This next season is going hinge on this more than anything else. Tins and J.O. being healthy won't matter if Ron has not changed. We don't have Reggie to bail us out, so after Ron it doesn't look good.
                                do u really honestly believe that everything that has happened to ron wont have a profound effect on him? seriously, how could anyone think that events similar to what happened last year will take place again-let alone that he will react the same way....he lost five million dollars and has been embarassed and had a huge part of his life taken away...it only stands to reason that he will be aware of the behavior issues that caused this and will have bettered them...hes not a monster like some of u like to make him out to be...hes a human like all of us....i wish some of u would keep this in mind and put urself in his shoes

                                Comment

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