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The Rules of Pacers Digest

Hello everyone,

Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

A quick note to new members: Your posts will not immediately show up when you make them. An administrator has to approve at least your first post before the forum software will later upgrade your account to the status of a fully-registered member. This usually happens within a couple of hours or so after your post(s) is/are approved, so you may need to be a little patient at first.

Why do we do this? So that it's more difficult for spammers (be they human or robot) to post, and so users who are banned cannot immediately re-register and start dousing people with verbal flames.

Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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Pierce Being Shopped

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  • #46
    Re: Pierce Being Shopped

    Originally posted by Shade
    Truly great players step it up a notch once traded. Shaq, Vince, TMac, and Kidd are great recent examples of this, not to mention JO and Ron. As for Pierce, we'll see how he responds if he's sent packing.
    TRULY great players don't need the motivation of getting traded in order to be great.
    #DBAP

    Comment


    • #47
      Re: Pierce Being Shopped

      Originally posted by shags
      TRULY great players don't need the motivation of getting traded in order to be great.
      I'm referring to players that were already great or borderline and stepped it up to superstar status once sent to a new location.

      My point is, I don't see Pierce revitalizing Portland and taking them deep into the playoffs. Do you?

      Comment


      • #48
        Re: Pierce Being Shopped

        Originally posted by foretaz
        and with the exceptions of lebron, amare, and wade....they all make over twice what ron makes and in many cases 3 times what ron makes....

        like it or not this is a business.....and the simple fact u compare him to these guys only make it more obvious of his value.....i dont agree with all of these on this list...but thats really irrelevant....what is relevant is that he is comparable to these players....hes an allstar and dpoy....all these others are basically allstars....yet rons salary is on par with a role player...which allows us tremendous flexibility....in this case to overpay austin...lol...

        find a guy whos making 6 million a year thats not on a rookie contract....compare ron to those guys and see what u think....its no contest....if u want to get rid of ron its simply a personal issue...it has nothing to do with performance or the business of basketball....
        Would any GM be stupid enough to hand the franchise to Ron and give him a max size contract?

        Don't think so

        Comment


        • #49
          Re: Pierce Being Shopped

          Originally posted by PacerFanAdam
          Would any GM be stupid enough to hand the franchise to Ron and give him a max size contract?

          Don't think so
          *coughZekecough*

          Comment


          • #50
            Re: Pierce Being Shopped

            Originally posted by PacerFanAdam
            Would any GM be stupid enough to hand the franchise to Larry Brown?

            Don't think so
            Fixed.

            Comment


            • #51
              Re: Pierce Being Shopped

              Originally posted by PacerFanAdam
              Would any GM be stupid enough to hand the franchise to Ron and give him a max size contract?

              Don't think so
              exaaaaaaaaccttllly..... which is why he is that more valuable....you get an allstar and dpoy for the cost of a role player....like i said...do a complete rundown of all the players making 6 million a year and see what u come up with (excluding rookie contracts of guys that will eventually get max or near max deals)

              you take ron...and love him.....and realize hes probably the best value in the nba....and whatever issues u have to deal with-u do so....thats what good management does in a case like this....theres too much value to just throw away and let someone else reap the rewards....hes paid the price...weve paid the price....last season....that will never happen again....if u think otherwise ur not being very logical.....lightning doesnt strike the same place twice....

              think of it this way....you get jack and ron for a total salary of less than what just about all the superstars are making....as management you find a way to make that work....even if it isnt easy at times....thats why they get paid the big bucks....to make things like this work....

              for what ron brings hes most comparable to duncan and garnett in a lot of ways....guys that flat bring it on both ends of the floor....guys that are able to dominate on both ends of the court....take a look at their contracts....then tell me how, if ur a businessman with the pacers franchise you dont find a way to make that work....

              or try this.....see what it would cost to try and get the contributions that ron brings to the floor....like him...hate him...doesnt matter....hes an incredible asset to this team....and from now on there should be no real problems keeping him on the court where he is so effective

              Comment


              • #52
                Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                I would never do a Artest for Peirce trade. Artest back on this Pacer team does make them title contenders. Adding Peirce to this team might only be a lateral movement. I don't see this team playing much better with Peirce. They're Definetely not title contenders. Artest definetely has the ability to be a top ten player in this league.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                  Originally posted by Will Galen
                  Ah . . . apples and oranges. You don't let people know your intentions in the draft or they will jump ahead of you.
                  Agreed. You also don't let people know who you intend to trade or they will low-ball you.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                    PacerFanAdam, you don't seen to value and appreciate what all Artest brings to the game. The defense, the energy, the physicallness, and the confidence that he provides to the team cannot be overstated.

                    You can sit there and say that certain players are better players than Artest, but I think that is missing the point, the most important thing is the overall effect Ron has on a game. I admit it is difficult to quantitfy - but Ron helps his team win in so many ways, many more ways than almost any player in the NBA

                    He's a top 10 player, no doubt in my mind.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                      Originally posted by Unclebuck
                      PacerFanAdam, you don't seen to value and appreciate what all Artest brings to the game. The defense, the energy, the physicallness, and the confidence that he provides to the team cannot be overstated.

                      You can sit there and say that certain players are better players than Artest, but I think that is missing the point, the most important thing is the overall effect Ron has on a game. I admit it is difficult to quantitfy - but Ron helps his team win in so many ways, many more ways than almost any player in the NBA

                      He's a top 10 player, no doubt in my mind.
                      Right now we are going to have to disagree on Artest. I hope I can have your mindset about Artest some day, because that means he would have changed his act, and gone a whole season without causing a distraction. That's what it will take for me to change my opinion on him.

                      I fully appreciate the skill level of Artest. I have said many times that he is talented as hell. He is without a doubt a top 10 talent, maybe even a top 5 talent. I disagree that he's a top 10 player. The 15 players I listed are all better at this point than Ron.

                      I just don't appreciate everything he brings to the table when he just plays 7 games. I dont appreciate what he did throughout the 02-03 season. I don't appreciate when he causes a major distraction by saying he is going to retire early.

                      Like I have said many times, even if a player is as good as Duncan or Lebron, they are still not worth the trouble that Ron Artest has caused, IMO. I think it would be in the best interest of the franchise to trade him right now(i dont think that will happen).

                      Teams have won NBA championships without Ron before, believe it or not, and a team is going to win an NBA championship this month without him on their squad.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                        Originally posted by PacerFanAdam
                        I assume you're talking about the 2002 world basketball championships.

                        Who cares, that wasn't in the NBA, and that was 3 years ago.

                        I prefer to use NBA statistics to evaluate an NBA player.
                        First of all, it wasn't his "statistics", it was the fact that all the coaches and players were mad as hell at Pierce for being such a baby. He, and to a certain extent Baron Davis, are roundly blamed for destroying the team's chemistry. Players didn't even want Paul on the floor.

                        And second, if all you look at are "statistics", what exactly is your problem with Artest?
                        Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                          Originally posted by Kegboy
                          First of all, it wasn't his "statistics", it was the fact that all the coaches and players were mad as hell at Pierce for being such a baby. He, and to a certain extent Baron Davis, are roundly blamed for destroying the team's chemistry. Players didn't even want Paul on the floor.

                          And second, if all you look at are "statistics", what exactly is your problem with Artest?

                          Mainly that his awesome 2004-2005 statistics account for just 7 games.


                          Not all I look at are "statistics", but I judge a player more on recent production in the NBA than by competition in the World Basketball Championships 3 years ago.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                            Originally posted by PacerFanAdam
                            Mainly that his awesome 2004-2005 statistics account for just 7 games.


                            Not all I look at are "statistics", but I judge a player more on recent production in the NBA than by competition in the World Basketball Championships 3 years ago.
                            So you don't care that in the playoffs this year he *****ed to the media about his teammates not getting him the ball enough, even though the team did better when he scored less (20 ppg in wins vs. 24 ppg in losses)?
                            Come to the Dark Side -- There's cookies!

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                              Originally posted by Kegboy
                              So you don't care that in the playoffs this year he *****ed to the media about his teammates not getting him the ball enough, even though the team did better when he scored less (20 ppg in wins vs. 24 ppg in losses)?


                              Again, I'm not going to dispute the fact that Paul Pierce has attitude problems. It's clear that he be an *******

                              But as it's been pointed out, when have you seen Pierce miss games due to a suspension?

                              You can atleast always count on Pierce to play, and I think a change of scenery would be good for him and his attitude.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Re: Pierce Being Shopped

                                I'll just start with contracts of Artest and Pierce.

                                Paul Pierce (28) 2005-06 13.8 mil , 2006-07 15.1 mil., 2007-08 player option 16.3 mil = 2 yr 28.9 with opt out, 3 yr 45.2 mil

                                Ron Artest (26) 2005-06 6.5 mil, 2006-07 7.1 mil , 2007-08 7.8 mil, 2008-09 player option 8.4 = 2yrs 13.6 mil , 3 yr 21.4 mil , play opt 4th yr 29.8 mil

                                Right off the bat the imbalance in salary means 7.3 must be added from the Pacer side , plus I'm sure with Ron's history a #1 will have to be included.

                                With Artest's supposive low trade value currently means a decent player like Fred Jones would have to be included too plus Pollards salary.

                                We are now looking at Artest, F.Jones , Pollard and a #1 for Pierce.

                                Plus with his opt out we may only have Pierce for 2 years. Sorry to me thats far too high a price to pay .

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