View Full Version : Webber complaining already

03-06-2005, 08:28 PM
I really cannot figure out why everyone thinks the Sixers are going to be so good with the combo of C-Webb and Iversion. What do people think Kings GM Petrie has suddenly turned stupid, he knows that Webber is a pain in the neck and the Sixers will find out very soon.

Remeber three years ago all the remors of the Pacers acquiring Webber for J.O. Thankfully that never occurred.

Mark my words, the Celtics will win the Atlantic division, not the Sixers.


Easy being green

Celtics' moves make them faves to win Atlantic

Antoine Walker (r.) is donning Celtic green again - as is Gary Payton (below), who was in deal to bring Walker back to Boston, but then waived by Hawks.

You really couldn't judge the winners and losers from the Feb. 24 trading deadline until this past Tuesday, when teams were allowed to pick up players off waivers and make them eligible for the playoffs. On this scorecard, here's who won and lost:

Boston - Give an A to Danny Ainge, who had done nothing but match Isiah Thomas, bad move for bad move, since he took over the Celtics. Ainge understands that Paul Pierce is vastly better when Antoine Walker is on the floor as his teammate - it's a chemistry thing - so he worked out a way to bring Walker back from the Hawks.

Ainge then had to address his point guard position, because he moved Gary Payton to Atlanta in the Walker deal and was left with unproven Delonte West and Marcus Banks to run his club. Maybe it was prearranged and maybe it wasn't, but as soon as Payton was dealt, everyone knew that he would be making a U-turn. Sure enough, the Hawks waived him, he cleared waivers, and is back starting for the Celtics.

Several GMs privately called it a case of cap-circumvention, also noting a similar maneuver that the Mavericks pulled with the Bucks in getting back Alan Henderson, who went to Milwaukee in the Keith Van Horn deal.

"What the Celtics did looks funny and should be scrutinized," said one Western Conference GM. "But who's going to blow the whistle?"

Nobody. Not when they would have done exactly what Boston and Dallas did, if in their shoes. Mavs owner Mark Cuban said there was no prearranged deal, even though one of his assistant coaches, Del Harris, and his son, Bucks GM Larry Harris, were said to be have worked out the arrangement.

"We didn't know they were going to waive him," Cuban said last week via email. "When they did, what else were we going to use the roster spot for?"

Compared to Payton's return to Boston, Henderson was a minor move. The Celtics should now lock up the Atlantic Division.

Philadelphia - During one of Chris Webber's first games with the Sixers, he sat down on the bench and said, loudly enough for a few teammates to hear: "I can't wait 'til this year is over." Nice attitude, huh? Well, nobody said that being No. 2 to Allen Iverson was going to be easy. Vince Carter has embraced his second-fiddle status with the Nets, but he still gets his shots, while Jason Kidd has all the pressure of being the No. 1 guy. But Webber is clearly struggling in his new role.

"It's not necessarily about me and A.I. being on the same page," Webber said. "It's just two different philosophies. That's all I can say. You just have to see if you can fit that philosophy."

Webber is having a tough time with coach Jim O'Brien's philosophy. O'Brien runs full-contact practices and even requires his players to have their ankles taped for contact in pregame shoot-arounds - a practice not heard of since Pat Riley used to put the Heat through three-hour, kamikaze shoot-arounds in preseason. With his mobility limited because of his knee troubles, Webber isn't thrilled about full-contact sessions, just as he expressed his displeasure when O'Brien said that they want him to attack out on pick-and-rolls. "I can't do that," Webber told teammates. "My first step is not there."

Detroit - When the Pistons signed Elden Campbell, after the Nets arranged a buyout with him, Chauncey Billups raved, "We're whole again, man." Campbell's return could be huge if and when the Pistons have to meet the Heat in the playoffs. He had quality minutes vs. Shaquille O'Neal in the Finals last June.

Indiana - The Pacers added a much-needed big body in Dale Davis, waived by the Hornets, but their fading playoff hopes took a major blow when Jermaine O'Neal sprained his right shoulder Thursday in Denver. O'Neal will miss a minimum of five games on the injured list. "I don't know what it is, but things haven't been going our way since Detroit," said Anthony Johnson, referring to the Nov. 19 brawl with the Pistons at Auburn Hills. "Everything seems to be falling to pieces."

O'Neal's status and Orlando's struggles have given playoff hope to teams such as the Nets, even if they don't win the Atlantic.

Losing the Magic touch

A month ago, they were talking in Orlando about giving head coach Johnny Davis an extension. But since the Magic has been on a slide, losing 13 of its last 24 games entering the weekend, word from the front office now is that Davis had better steer the Magic into the postseason.

Davis and GM John Weisbrod are having "philosophical differences" over who should play and how Davis goes about his business. Davis is a quiet, pampering type, while Weisbrod, an ex-hockey player and exec, favors a fiery, confrontational style and has been looking for intensity from his coaching staff.

Davis has tried to shake things up by taking Steve Francis off the ball. Francis had been averaging a whopping 4.1 turnovers per game, fourth-highest in the league, behind only Kobe Bryant (4.4), Dwyane Wade (4.2) and Iverson (4.2). So Davis recently put the ball in the hands of a rookie Jameer Nelson.

But it hasn't been all Stevie Franchise's fault. The Magic coaches complained loudly from the opener that Cuttino Mobley was a defensive liability. That was the impetus for the Mobley-for-Doug Christie trade in early January. Christie has been upset with lack of playing time, missed Friday's game vs. the Knicks and could be headed out the door. But since the deal, there's been no improvement on the defensive end.

Before Friday night, Orlando had given up at least 100 points in 14 of its previous 24 games, with opponents averaging 107 ppg in those 14 games, and the Magic losing nine of them.

Slam Dunks

Shaquille O'Neal was not happy to hear that Stan Van Gundy doesn't plan on using Shaq and Alonzo Mourning together. "I don't get it," Shaq said. But knowing how O'Neal operates, he will do his best to drive home the point to Van Gundy and Pat Riley until something is worked out to Shaq's satisfaction. Not that Van Gundy is someone who changes his system to fit his personnel. But it wouldn't be the first time that Shaq and Van Gundy have butted heads. Shaq, who turns 33 today, was used to having more days off from practice with Phil Jackson, who handles the regular season entirely differently than Riley and Van Gundy. Suffice to say, Jackson has always placed less of a premium on the 82 games than Riley and his disciples. Also, Shaq feels he had more freedom in Jackson's triangle offense than he does in Miami's system.

George Karl's benching of Carmelo Anthony in Denver's Feb. 25 overtime win in Memphis caused a stir back in Milwaukee, where executives from the Karl era who know their former coach's MO, are already convinced that he will work to get Anthony traded this summer. Even with 'Melo, who doesn't believe in playing defense, the Nuggets have started shutting down foes in fourth quarters while winning 12 of their last 16 games, entering last night's contest at the Clippers. The surge pulled the Nuggets into a tie with the Lakers heading into the weekend for the eighth and final playoff spot in the Western Conference. The Lakers' remaining schedule is brutal, with 15 of their final 24 games on the road, including stops in Dallas, Washington, Philly, Miami, Denver, San Antonio, Memphis, Phoenix, Seattle and Sacramento.

Originally published on March 5, 2005

03-06-2005, 08:58 PM
Kenny Thomas said something great to the effect of it being different but nice being in Sacramento because he's used to only one person having and/or dribbling the ball all the time. Someone is probably thinking "Man, I can't wait til I don't have to pay this jag anymore". If I was a Sixers fan I'd be more than a little upset or p.o.'d

03-06-2005, 09:04 PM
Yes! that's it. I forgot where I read it but knew it was today

03-08-2005, 10:51 PM
Iverson had a whopping 12 turnovers though........

03-08-2005, 11:01 PM
OBrien is such a horrible coach..It's crazy. He plays Iverson for 40+ mins and 35+ Shot attempts..Then only plays Webber for 23-25 mins a night with 8-10 shot attempts...Webber is a good player..It's just the Sixers have a horrible coach

03-09-2005, 12:22 AM
The Sixers have been awful since the trade. O'Brien has done a poor job adjusting his system to place Webber into the offensive scheme. Defensively he is forcing Webber to come out and blitz the pick and roll something Webber said he can't do anymore because of his knee. He is also letting Iverson play out of control with no discipline he isn't even subbing Iverson out of games anymore.

Webber's attitude has been atrocious he has been a cancer. He has been openly criticizing O'Brien while sitting on the bench and refused to go into the team huddle twice during timeouts. The other night O'Brien took him out for 11 minutes and put him back in with 3 minutes left in the game. Webber made a jumper and stared down O'Brien all the way back down court. Great example for the young guys. :rolleyes:

Iverson deserves blame as well he now has some offensive talent around him but he has refused to incorporate the new players into the offense and has been playing selfishly. They have no ball movement and that starts and ends with Iverson running the point. His floor game tonight was horrible. Things are going to get ugly with this team. I liked the trade when it happened but it has turned out to be a disaster. :(

03-09-2005, 12:27 AM
Another bad game tonight.

Am I allowed to say that system makes the King's player look much better than they are? Or is that still not allowed here?

No, you are right. It is entirely the system.

And I for one never thought Philly was going to be as great as everyone thought they would be. Webber just isn't that good, and no one believes that.

03-09-2005, 12:29 AM
There are not many players that you wouldn't choose over A. Walker to help boost team chemestry. I guess Philly found one of the few.

03-09-2005, 02:27 AM
Iverson deserves blame as well he now has some offensive talent around him but he has refused to incorporate the new players into the offense and has been playing selfishly. They have no ball movement and that starts and ends with Iverson running the point.

dipper I completely agree. Iverson may complain about not having other options but how much of a chance have some of the players around him ever gotten? Even when he wasn't the point he had the ball a large percentage of the time and that's fine. But Skinner thrived in Milwaukee (move the ball, run when you can) and looks to be fitting in well in Sacto now who not coincidentally move the ball very well and run when they can. I think Kenny Thomas has talent but never really looked good while in Philly. Only glimses here and there. I dunno, I agree that it does start with Iverson. He's got a (when healthy) top ten big man now; it's up to him to try to make something work.

03-09-2005, 02:48 AM
Philly's problem is that they keep trading the wrong players...
They either just need to let it be the Iverson show and thrill a few people with 40- 50 point games here and there... and a .500 or so record... or trade Iverson and go to work on a TEAM that can have a legitimate long term window.

Is it not obvious where the problem is?


03-09-2005, 03:51 AM
I've already had several posts over the years saying the same thing over & over about Iverson.

It is NOT about him not having help on the offensive end, it is the fact that he will not allow anyone else to be involved on the offensive end. He wants to be the falcrum of every play. If he isn't shooting it, he is going to be the one to pass it & you better damn well hit the shot or you will never have it passed to again.

It's not just the shooting, it's never been just the shooting. It's his dominance of the ball. He's not alone in this, Marburry & Francis are the same way.

Their teams will never be good because they obstruct the team game. The fact that he made it to the finals one year tells you all you needed to know about the East that season, it sucked.

Webber on the other hand, isn't much better. They deserve each other in my opinion. However the Philly fans & org. deserve a lot better than each.

It's time to cut the strings with the little tyrant & get something else.

03-09-2005, 04:15 AM
I really think the best answer, other than trading Iverson, is to surround him with Jeff Foster type guys who will score without having plays called for them, and high efficiency scorers. However, in this scenario, they also have to be good defenders, and if AI is your SG, you have to have a PG big enough to guard the SG on the defensive end. Obviously, a lot goes into building a team around AI. I will say that I thought that Webber and AI would work alot better together than they have so far. They're working on ruining my dream of a lottery pick this off-season :P

03-09-2005, 04:46 AM
The fact that he made it to the finals one year tells you all you needed to know about the East that season, it sucked.

It's almost like someone created a vacuum... like a piece of the East hierarchy was suddenly missing that year...



03-09-2005, 06:02 PM
Their teams will never be good because they obstruct the team game. The fact that he made it to the finals one year tells you all you needed to know about the East that season, it sucked.

The Sixers also had a good coach that year. Also, as Eindar is pointing out, complimentary players who will defer are needed if the ownership is content with the AI show. Snow is gone (the big point), McKie looks to be washed up. All of their bigs from that season are gone (Ratliff, Mutumbo, Mohammed, Geiger). A big question that the Sixers need to answer is if AI/that style of play is hurting their younger players grownth (Dalembert in particular).

Los Angeles
03-09-2005, 06:27 PM
I wonder if sometimes a city's personality- as a city in total - has effect on how their team is run. Here are a few examples:

LA Lakers: celebrity runs the show.

Portland: up in smoke.

NY: overpriced, overhyped.

Indy: wait till next year - we're finally gonna be on the map! :ducks:

As for Philly: I visited Philly about 5 years ago and my cab driver wouldn't stop talking about the first Rocky movie. He just went on and on. Talking to others there, it was like they kept talking about the hometown heros - if I dared disparage Iverson, I was quickly shown the door in the conversation. Philly people kept talking to me about how M. Knight Shymalan is the greatest director ever. Because all his movies happen - where? In Philadelphia, that's where! So obviously he's good! :rolleyes:

Philly has pride in all things philly. Iverson is thier favorite Basketball son. And management would be tarred and feathered if they ever got rid of him. He won't win the big one, and they don't really need him to for the people to love him.

03-09-2005, 09:45 PM
Is it not obvious where the problem is?
Yeah, when the problem persists after changing players and coaches, you have to look to see what the common denominator is. But the fans love him.