PDA

View Full Version : Pistons are the best team in the east, with or without Artest



Unclebuck
02-19-2004, 05:05 PM
I am in shock the Pistons got Sheed for really nothing. It would be comparable to the Pacers trading Kenny, Primoz and James Jones for Sheed. If the Pacers did that deal we all would be buying our "Finals"
tickets today.

Prior to the trade the Pistons biggest weakness was inside scoring, low post scoring and a guy who can just score from everywhere, well they corrected all those weaknesses in one trade. That would be like the pacers adressing their center needs, point guard needs and shooting guard needs in one trade.

Sheed is also a very good defender when he wants to be he can be one of the best defenders in the whole NBA.

If I had to bet $10,000 today on who from the east would make the NBA Finals, even if I were assured that Artest will be 100% healthy by then I would still pick the Pistons.

I will say that Sheed has never had an NBA coach like Larry Brown though, that could blow up or it more than likely really help Sheed become the player he should be.

:mad:

zxc
02-19-2004, 05:08 PM
I agree. Atlanta really screwed us and others over. Boston too don't know why they got in on that deal. Chucky Atkins and a late 20s first round pick gonna make them that much better? Such a stupid deal =\

ChicagoJ
02-19-2004, 05:11 PM
-snip-If the Pacers did that deal we all would be buying our "Finals" tickets today.

Funny. I just mailed the payment for my playoff tickets yesterday. Today, I realized that I likely won't get to use the NBA Finals tickets that always look so nice in the booklet.

Oh yeah, I was going to shoot myself. Thanks for the reminder....

Booger
02-19-2004, 05:17 PM
I'm still in disbelief as well. I think I'm going to go home and sit in the corner, rock back and forth, and suck my thumb. Either that, or go home and kick my dog.

And, then, after I talk myself into believing that we can still beat the Pistons, I'm going to remember that the Nets haven't lost a game since they switched coaches. That'll make me feel better.

But, hey, at least I won't be bored the rest of this season. I'll be busy cleaning all the vomit stains on my carpet. Maybe I should put in hard wood floors??

Sorry, I'm babbling.

:puke:

MagicRat
02-19-2004, 05:23 PM
I hope the Pacers' players don't throw in the towel as easily as you guys......

able
02-19-2004, 05:28 PM
If I had to bet $10,000 today on who from the east would make the NBA Finals, even if I were assured that Artest will be 100% healthy by then I would still pick the Pistons.

I will say that Sheed has never had an NBA coach like Larry Brown though, that could blow up or it more than likely really help Sheed become the player he should be.

:mad:

Hogwash!

P's are still the best in the East, face some reality at the same time you are looking at Detroit:

Sheed will not fit in within 1 or 2 games, it takes time.
Sheed has a personality that will take some handling
Sheed will be leaving in the summer, this can influence his motivation.

They have lost quite a few players, one lil hurt ankle or knee or finger and they don't have anywhere near a rotation anymore, people will have to play more minutes, tiredness will play a factor.

They are still 6.5 games behind us, that will remain so.

We have lost Ron just for a few weeks and have the depth to take care of it.

Sheed's talent is nice, but he played on some formidable line ups before with what result ?

I'm still confident.

:stupid:

Shade
02-19-2004, 05:33 PM
I think some of you are starting to lose it. :crazy:

ChicagoJ
02-19-2004, 05:45 PM
I think some of you are starting to lose it. :crazy:

Which of us, the paranoid pessimists or the foolish optimists? :cool:

Roy Munson
02-19-2004, 05:48 PM
If I had to bet $10,000 today on who from the east would make the NBA Finals, even if I were assured that Artest will be 100% healthy by then I would still pick the Pistons.



Doesn't it make you wonder a little bit why the "second-coming" never had much success in Portland?

They had a couple good teams, but those teams were led by Sabonis and Pippen. Once Sabonis and Pippen left, Portland was a bad team, even with the "second-coming" in their line-up.

The guy is WAY overrated. He's hype and reputation based on potential that he has never lived up to. He'll play one good game and three weak games. Or he'll play a good first half and disappear in the fourth quarter. He does it all the time.

Quit worrying so much. It sounds pathetic. I sure hope the Pacers aren't sitting in a corner wringing their hands and whining like an old woman about this .

MSA2CF
02-19-2004, 05:49 PM
I think some of you are starting to lose it. :crazy:

I agree, if you're talking about all the people who think we aren't the best team in the East.

To those guys: We lost A game. We didn't lose 10 games in a row. This was just one bad beatdown. Let it go. The Nets lost like 10 in a row or something and look what they've done. They are doing just fine. It's not the end of the world folks.

ROCislandWarrior
02-19-2004, 05:57 PM
I agree, if you're talking about all the people who think we aren't the best team in the East.

To those guys: We lost A game. We didn't lose 10 games in a row. This was just one bad beatdown. Let it go. The Nets lost like 10 in a row or something and look what they've done. They are doing just fine. It's not the end of the world folks.

AMEN...someone give this guy an award

one more point: What have the pistons done to prove they are better than the pacers.....NOTHING

It's not like they got Shaq or KG...they got an old vet who is nothing but problem city who has already declared that he is going to leave town ASAP...

THIS MIGHT JUST IMPLODE THEM!!!!

ChicagoJ
02-19-2004, 06:02 PM
I think some of you are starting to lose it. :crazy:

I agree, if you're talking about all the people who think we aren't the best team in the East.

To those guys: We lost A game. We didn't lose 10 games in a row. This was just one bad beatdown. Let it go. The Nets lost like 10 in a row or something and look what they've done. They are doing just fine. It's not the end of the world folks.

This has nothing to do with the NO game. Some of us believe the Pacers have a significant disadvantage against the bigger, more physical teams, and we aren't sure we can win a seven-game series against them. We could realistically have to play the Knicks, Hornets and Pistons in order to win the East. The Knicks and Hornets have manhandled us recently, and the Pistons just got much bigger and better today while we lost our second best player for realistically four to six weeks (sure he may come back sooner, I'm talking about how long until he's effective).

You could say that I'm exagerating today, and you'd be right. But to confidently fail to recognize that the balance of power has shifted in the past week ...

indygeezer
02-19-2004, 06:11 PM
As much as I'm carping about needing a big, I'm not giving up on this team. We do need a big body& we do need another scorer. But we can still be OK. I just wanted to insure it especially as Jay says we get killed by physical teams (Jay you left out the Nets...KMart seems to do quite well against JO).

We've got a soft schedule now, let's hope this team takes advantage of it.

MSA2CF
02-19-2004, 06:13 PM
I'm not worried about the Pistons.

Pacers are on their way to the Finals and no one will get in their way.

ChicagoJ
02-19-2004, 06:21 PM
If we can close out the season playing 0.500 (14-14), which is a possibility even with Ron out, then Detroit would have to go 20-6 to take the #1 seed (which won't happen, there will be some learning curve with all the changes (I hope.)), and NJ would have to go 22-8, which isn't unreasonable I suppose.

Geezer, I left out NJ because I assumed we'd hand onto the #1 seed and Detroit would beat them in the EC Semis. But if they take the #1 seed then we'd have to play Detroit in the second round. Eeks!

Anybody wishing Ron would have just had the surgery back in January?

Some quick research on torn ligaments in the thumb:

http://www.handuniversity.com/topics.asp?Topic_ID=29

If you have surgery, you will be placed in a thumb spica cast for four weeks. Some doctors will take the spica cast off at four weeks and then place your thumb in an immobilizing splint for another two weeks. Some patients work with a physical or occupational therapist to help regain range of motion and strength in the thumb. Most patients are able to return to normal activity three months after their surgery.

Emphasis Added

So since he's a professional athlete and not a "most patients", lets say he's back on the court in six weeks. That gives him and the team the last week of the regular season to get ready for the playoffs. Not much time.

waxman
02-19-2004, 06:23 PM
Was the Eastern Conference Championship banner included in the Sheed trade? :whoknows:

Or do the Pistons gotta win 3 grueling playoffs series like everyone else?

dipperdunk
02-19-2004, 06:25 PM
Sorry UB, I would like to offer words of encouragement but I agree with your post. As for the poster who mentioned the Blazers weren't a good team last year; they won 50 games in the West last season thats not too shabby.

Oh yeah, I was going to shoot myself. Thanks for the reminder....

Jay, you should take that gun to Atlanta 1st, then maybe if you can pass by Billy Kings office for me. ;) If theres ever an argument for contraction this is definitely the case with the Hawks. Its like a nascar race where the last place driver is about to get lapped by the leader and he decides to cut the leader off instead of letting him pass. For a scrub team like Atlanta to be such key players in important trades is a disgrace. In the last week they've traded Ratliff,Raheem and Wallace and don't have one good player to show for it.

Kegboy
02-19-2004, 06:26 PM
Well, UB, if you're giving up on the season, I'll be more than happy to take your tix. Or, if you still want to go to games (even though the end is inevitable) you can just give me your Round 4 tickets when the playoff books come out (not like they'll be worth anything, right?)

I'd forgotten how irrational everyone gets at the trading deadline. Reminds me of last year, when everyone was afraid of Milwaukee because they got GP.

:crazy:

MagicRat
02-19-2004, 06:34 PM
"Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO! And it ain't over now...."

http://www.penguinradio.com/graphics/giveup.jpg

MagicRat
02-19-2004, 06:38 PM
"When things look bad, and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean, plum mad-dog mean, 'cause if ya lose your head and give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."-Josey Wales


http://www.burnsfilmcenter.org/FilmProgramming/Oct03Pics/outlawjosey.gif

ChicagoJ
02-19-2004, 06:43 PM
"Over? Did you say over? NOTHING is over until WE decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? HELL, NO! And it ain't over now...."

http://www.penguinradio.com/graphics/giveup.jpg

:laugh: That's the first time I've laughed all day.

Hicks
02-19-2004, 06:46 PM
"When things look bad, and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean, plum mad-dog mean, 'cause if ya lose your head and give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."-Josey Wales


http://www.burnsfilmcenter.org/FilmProgramming/Oct03Pics/outlawjosey.gif

That quote is AWESOME. Hadn't heard that one before.

Tim
02-19-2004, 07:03 PM
I am in shock the Pistons got Sheed for really nothing. It would be comparable to the Pacers trading Kenny, Primoz and James Jones for Sheed. If the Pacers did that deal we all would be buying our "Finals"
tickets today.

Prior to the trade the Pistons biggest weakness was inside scoring, low post scoring and a guy who can just score from everywhere, well they corrected all those weaknesses in one trade. That would be like the pacers adressing their center needs, point guard needs and shooting guard needs in one trade.

Sheed is also a very good defender when he wants to be he can be one of the best defenders in the whole NBA.

If I had to bet $10,000 today on who from the east would make the NBA Finals, even if I were assured that Artest will be 100% healthy by then I would still pick the Pistons.

I will say that Sheed has never had an NBA coach like Larry Brown though, that could blow up or it more than likely really help Sheed become the player he should be.

:mad:

UB as of right now NJ and NY are still more of a threat than Detroit.
They get better with Sheed but he doesn't always like the post.

Pacers can't counter quick point guards, even if Al was traded their really isn't a point out there that can deal with Kidd and Marbury.

If anything is really going to hurt us, its the health Ron and Al, not Detroit.

bulletproof
02-19-2004, 08:30 PM
"When things look bad, and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean, plum mad-dog mean, 'cause if ya lose your head and give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."-Josey Wales


I love The Outlaw Josey Wales. Own it on DVD, in fact.

Josey Wales: You a bounty hunter?
Bounty Hunter: A man has to do something these days to earn a living.
Josey Wales: Dyin' ain't much of a living boy.

MagicRat
02-19-2004, 08:45 PM
"When things look bad, and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean, plum mad-dog mean, 'cause if ya lose your head and give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."-Josey Wales


I love The Outlaw Josey Wales. Own it on DVD, in fact.

Josey Wales: You a bounty hunter?
Bounty Hunter: A man has to do something these days to earn a living.
Josey Wales: Dyin' ain't much of a living boy.

Should be a part of any red-blooded American males' DVD collection. I could go on and on with quotes, but I found this site to do it for me...
http://funwavs.com/movie/sounds/the-outlaw-josey-wales/

Every one a classic....



"Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining"

Unclebuck
02-19-2004, 08:54 PM
I am not giving up on the season I can assure you of that.

And no the Pistons won't catch the Pacers in the regular season standings.

I am talking about the playoffs.

Some of you are seriously underestimating Rasheed wallace. I think he will be on his best behavior for the last 26 games of the season and playoffs and if he is.

able
02-19-2004, 08:56 PM
I am not giving up on the season I can assure you of that.

And no the Pistons won't catch the Pacers in the regular season standings.

I am talking about the playoffs.

Some of you are seriously underestimating Rasheed wallace. I think he will be on his best behavior for the last 26 games of the season and playoffs and if he is.

Now tell me honestly UB, you not looking forward to JO taking care of that little problem for you ??

in the playoffs JO will OWN him.

:stupid:

(hey I can have high hopes)

Hicks
02-19-2004, 09:06 PM
Actually, on that front Sheed worries me considerably. If I remember correctly, when we play Portland, he usually outplays O'Neal on both ends. Scores on him, and frustrates him.

bulletproof
02-19-2004, 09:10 PM
"When things look bad, and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean, plum mad-dog mean, 'cause if ya lose your head and give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is."-Josey Wales


I love The Outlaw Josey Wales. Own it on DVD, in fact.

Josey Wales: You a bounty hunter?
Bounty Hunter: A man has to do something these days to earn a living.
Josey Wales: Dyin' ain't much of a living boy.

Should be a part of any red-blooded American males' DVD collection.


Ever see Once Upon A Time In The West, Magic? My favorite Western, nay, my favorite film of all time. Perfect on every level. Saw Open Range the other night. Pretty good Western fare. Great showdown at the end. Lots of killin'.

Kstat
02-19-2004, 09:54 PM
Eh, I dont really care anymore. Im still waiting to wake up from this deam....

Look at it from my POV: I had to go through 60 games of you guys TOTALLY outclassing us. And in a span of ONE day, we go from "can Detroit beat Indiana," to "Can Indiana beat Detroit." Its just one of those days where you're walking on air for 24 hours, which I have been. :angel:

Officially, I still think Indiana is a finals favorite. I just dont think they are the ONLY finals favorite anymore....

And dont be too sold on Sheed to NY next year. His agent hinted that Sheed may resign, and Joe already said hed like to have him back.

And can we stop these damn "why didnt he do anything in Portland" takes? come on now. Ben Wallace, Mehmet Okur, Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. Thats a pretty impressive supporting cast.

MagicRat
02-19-2004, 10:19 PM
Ben Wallace, Mehmet Okur, Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. Thats a pretty impressive supporting cast.

Is that the same Mehmet Okur that went scoreless with 3 boards and 2 TO's the last game against the Pacers? :unimpressed:

And the Billups and the Hamilton that combined to go 6-26? :unimpressed:

Just checking..... :devil:

MagicRat
02-19-2004, 10:23 PM
Ever see Once Upon A Time In The West, Magic? My favorite Western, nay, my favorite film of all time. Perfect on every level. Saw Open Range the other night. Pretty good Western fare. Great showdown at the end. Lots of killin'.

I have seen Once Upon A Time in the West, but I'm not as well versed in it as I am the Eastwood westerns. I'll have to revisit that one....

Open Range is definitely on my rental list, also.

Kstat
02-19-2004, 10:27 PM
Ben Wallace, Mehmet Okur, Rip Hamilton and Chauncey Billups. Thats a pretty impressive supporting cast.

Is that the same Mehmet Okur that went scoreless with 3 boards and 2 TO's the last game against the Pacers? :unimpressed:

And the Billups and the Hamilton that combined to go 6-26? :unimpressed:

Just checking..... :devil:

Yep. and I still have full confidence in both of them.

Unclebuck
02-19-2004, 10:39 PM
Kstat you probably feel like Pacers fans did two season ago right about now when the Pacers traded Rose for Artest and Miller.

It was interesting to hear Carlisle tonight, he was talking about how thew Pacers are now the underdogs aagain and he likes that role.

Kstat
02-20-2004, 12:00 AM
“He affects the game in so many different ways,” Pacers forward Jermaine O'Neal said recently. “He's a guy that can start out cold and then bury you in less than five minutes. He has that type of talent.”

I think JO sums up my feelings about Sheed's talent pretty well.

And no, I havent come back down to earth yet......

Kegboy
02-20-2004, 12:33 AM
Actually, on that front Sheed worries me considerably. If I remember correctly, when we play Portland, he usually outplays O'Neal on both ends. Scores on him, and frustrates him.

Yes, JO has always had trouble against the two guys that he played behind there, Sheed and Brian Grant. Too wit, IMO Grant was the one who would really kill him. Maybe because he spent more time with him, working on his game, I don't know. Always seemed to know what Jermaine would do before he did it.

Note, however, my use of past tense. I paid close attention when we played Miami last week, and it was a completely different story then years past, surprising considering Miami's a much better team than the last couple years. JO completely had his way with Grant, forcing him to foul out. JO's number haven't changed much the last couple years, but how he gets them has. The game was a microcosm of how he's matured as a player.

My point is I don't think the mental barrier he had against Grant and Wallace is a factor anymore. And I don't think we need to worry about Artest matching up with Sheed, JO will be on him.

(Of course, I feel this is all moot considering I'm convinced we'll only play them the one time on Palm Sunday.)

Peck
02-20-2004, 02:21 AM
I am in shock the Pistons got Sheed for really nothing. It would be comparable to the Pacers trading Kenny, Primoz and James Jones for Sheed. If the Pacers did that deal we all would be buying our "Finals"
tickets today.

Prior to the trade the Pistons biggest weakness was inside scoring, low post scoring and a guy who can just score from everywhere, well they corrected all those weaknesses in one trade. That would be like the pacers adressing their center needs, point guard needs and shooting guard needs in one trade.
Sheed is also a very good defender when he wants to be he can be one of the best defenders in the whole NBA.

If I had to bet $10,000 today on who from the east would make the NBA Finals, even if I were assured that Artest will be 100% healthy by then I would still pick the Pistons.

I will say that Sheed has never had an NBA coach like Larry Brown though, that could blow up or it more than likely really help Sheed become the player he should be.

:mad:

I didn't even pay attention to the highlighted part yesterday. But it just hit me we need a big man, a player who is a good passer & a player who can hit a mid-range or outside shot.

How about if I told you that you could have all of these players wrapped into one. But then I would have to tell you that you didn't just trade to get that player, you actually gave that player away. :banghead:

bulletproof
02-20-2004, 03:29 AM
And dont be too sold on Sheed to NY next year. His agent hinted that Sheed may resign, and Joe already said hed like to have him back.


How old are you, man? Certainly you are beyond the age where you believe everything you read. That's what they call PR. Are they going to say anything else right now?

bulletproof
02-20-2004, 03:54 AM
And dont be too sold on Sheed to NY next year. His agent hinted that Sheed may resign, and Joe already said hed like to have him back.


How old are you, man? Certainly you are beyond the age where you believe everything you read. That's what they call PR. Are they going to say anything else right now?

Kstat
02-20-2004, 03:57 AM
And dont be too sold on Sheed to NY next year. His agent hinted that Sheed may resign, and Joe already said hed like to have him back.


How old are you, man? Certainly you are beyond the age where you believe everything you read. That's what they call PR. Are they going to say anything else right now?


Im a pistons fan so I believe it has some merit. Just like you are a Pacers fan and believe its not true. Both of us are biased.

I do wonder if the Pistons make the NBA finals is Rasheed going to be as quick to bolt for NY? His whole reason for wanting to go there was to win games. Detroit cant offer the spotlight, but it does have a team thats a much better FIT for him right now. And Ive heard from too many coaches that I respect that Rasheed's desire to win is very underratted.

And if things dont work out, no skin off my back, we happily resign Okur. No harm no foul.

indygeezer
02-20-2004, 06:46 AM
Is this the same Rasheed Wallace that flung a basketball at a teammate while his back was turned and then ran off laughing? Classy...and very mature. (Sour grapes? Perhaps...at least it wasn't Bonzi)

As far as RW staying in Detroit...look at the money they threw at Brad last year. With all the teams unloading and creating capspace they will be throwing money around like the US Congress. Fast, furious, and lots of it. Nobody will want to be left out like Utah was this year. That's why Dampier will opt out of his and so will RW. They'd be nuts not to. Remember, only one team gets Kobe everybody else has to scramble to cover their butts.

Will Detroit be better? Remains to be seen...we were worried about CHEMISTRY on this team...well D-town just inherited a BIG chemistry problem based on his past, and someone is losing their starting job because of it...and then there is Larry Brown.

I still like our chances.

Kstat
02-20-2004, 07:37 AM
Is this the same Rasheed Wallace that flung a basketball at a teammate while his back was turned and then ran off laughing? Classy...and very mature. (Sour grapes? Perhaps...at least it wasn't Bonzi)

As far as RW staying in Detroit...look at the money they threw at Brad last year. With all the teams unloading and creating capspace they will be throwing money around like the US Congress. Fast, furious, and lots of it. Nobody will want to be left out like Utah was this year. That's why Dampier will opt out of his and so will RW. They'd be nuts not to. Remember, only one team gets Kobe everybody else has to scramble to cover their butts.

Will Detroit be better? Remains to be seen...we were worried about CHEMISTRY on this team...well D-town just inherited a BIG chemistry problem based on his past, and someone is losing their starting job because of it...and then there is Larry Brown.

I still like our chances.

There is no "opt out" clause in sheeds contact. Hes simply a FA this year. And if he wanted a fat contract, hed have taken portlands $10 mil a year offer. He wont get a better deal anywhere else.

As for chemistry goes, we have GREAT team chemirty, the parts just didnt fit right. And the guy going to the bench (Prince) is the same guy who WANTED to come off the bench all year. Fine by me.

As for Larry Brown, this may be the first time im HAPPY we have him. There is no coach better suited for him in the NBA.

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 10:00 AM
As for Larry Brown, this may be the first time im HAPPY we have him. There is no coach better suited for him in the NBA.

I think that's a good point. I can't stand Larry Brown but I do respect the SoB, and this is the first time I've been worried that you have him.

If he can't turn 'Sheed into a team player, nobody can. And then he'll have enough baggage that only a fool would give me more than then MLE.

fwpacerfan
02-20-2004, 10:14 AM
Well, UB, if you're giving up on the season, I'll be more than happy to take your tix. Or, if you still want to go to games (even though the end is inevitable) you can just give me your Round 4 tickets when the playoff books come out (not like they'll be worth anything, right?)

I'd forgotten how irrational everyone gets at the trading deadline. Reminds me of last year, when everyone was afraid of Milwaukee because they got GP.

:crazy:

Great point - I remember the GP conversations as well. It's not like the Pistons got KG or something. Raweed has his share of problems, not the least of which is the fact he will be gone after this year - there is already Knicks talk going on.

I'm actually glad this team stayed put. What if we would've traded Al away and then Ron is out? The way we stand now - we can go 12 deep and it will be a benefit for us. The person who will make a difference between this team winning 50 or this team winning 60 games will be good ole' 5.1 Bender. This guy had better step up - if he doesn't then he needs to be gone by the start of next season. The time for Bender to shine starts tonight.

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 10:30 AM
The Pistons are much improved with Rasheed, but not better than Indy. Rasheed is a fine player, but he is not Jermaine O'Neal. Not even close. Pistons may have leap frogged NJ as the second best team in the East, but Indy should still beat them in thep layoffs should they meet.

BTW: Hello everyone. You have a very good forum here Hicks. Very impressive. If you allow me to stay, I promise to be good. :angel:

fwpacerfan
02-20-2004, 10:42 AM
The Pistons are much improved with Rasheed, but not better than Indy. Rasheed is a fine player, but he is not Jermaine O'Neal. Not even close. Pistons may have leap frogged NJ as the second best team in the East, but Indy should still beat them in thep layoffs should they meet.

BTW: Hello everyone. You have a very good forum here Hicks. Very impressive. If you allow me to stay, I promise to be good. :angel:

I can't believe I'm going to say this but "Welcome NewYawk." :hippie:

I agree with you 100%. JO will hold his own against Wallace.

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 10:53 AM
The Pistons are much improved with Rasheed, but not better than Indy. Rasheed is a fine player, but he is not Jermaine O'Neal. Not even close. Pistons may have leap frogged NJ as the second best team in the East, but Indy should still beat them in thep layoffs should they meet.

BTW: Hello everyone. You have a very good forum here Hicks. Very impressive. If you allow me to stay, I promise to be good. :angel:

I can't believe I'm going to say this but "Welcome NewYawk." :hippie:

I agree with you 100%. JO will hold his own against Wallace.

Thank you FW. The "dork" fan factor is less here than in the Star forum, which, IMO, has really gone down hill. CHcBearsfan and Brooklyn PG are the only guys who really talk basketball over there. I've tried to get them to post more here. Good guys.

Again, like you said, Rasheed is an improvement, but Detroit is simply not better, and it would take a Pacer choke job for them to beat us. I think Artest's injury factored a great deal into Indy not making a trade. If Ron were healthy, Harrington would be gone. JMO. That said, Ron's injury may be a blessing in disguise. Bender and Cro will see more time, and we need to see if these guys can produce.

BTW: I LOVE the gremlins here. :whatsup:

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 10:56 AM
I guess part of the problem I see is that we need JO to hold his own against Wallace. And Wallace. And Okur. And Campbell. All of these guys are shaky matchups for Foster, Harrington, Pollard, etc.

JO is only one man. :(

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 11:06 AM
I guess part of the problem I see is that we need JO to hold his own against Wallace. And Wallace. And Okur. And Campbell. All of these guys are shaky matchups for Foster, Harrington, Pollard, etc.

JO is only one man. :(

Ben Wallace is not a good defensive big man. He is highly, HIGHLY overrated. Elden Campbell is a bum, and Okur is a solid player, nothing special. Compare that to JO (top 5 player in the NBA), Harrington (better than Elden, Meka, and Rasheed), Pollard (solid), Foster (also solid), and Croshere (inconsistent, but occasionally can explode), and I see no reason to state the obvious: the Pacer front court is STILL better than Detroit's.

Now the backcourt-- tha'ts a different story. :( Tinsley and Reggie must play with greater consistency. Can we please limit the 4-20 shooting nights to once every other game? I mean, good gravy! :puke:

MagicRat
02-20-2004, 11:17 AM
Indians vow to "Endeavor to Persevere"

"We thought about it for a long time, 'Endeavor to persevere.' And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union."-Lone Watie

http://www.firstamericans.org/_derived/7thmus%26spec.htm_txt_chief_dan_george.gif

Unclebuck
02-20-2004, 11:26 AM
:

I didn't even pay attention to the highlighted part yesterday. But it just hit me we need a big man, a player who is a good passer & a player who can hit a mid-range or outside shot.

How about if I told you that you could have all of these players wrapped into one. But then I would have to tell you that you didn't just trade to get that player, you actually gave that player away. :banghead:



Peck, there are a lot of things I could post, but I have to make this short. brad does not help our backcourt defense, nor does he address the lack of a guard who can create.

waxman
02-20-2004, 11:34 AM
Yup seasons over...hand detroit the Eastern Conference Banner... pack it in boys the seasons over....

Is JO still the best big man in the East?... is Ronnie still one of the best SmallFowards & the best defensive player in the east....is Al still one of the best 6th men in the league?....is Reggie still one of the most clutch players ever?...

Yeah...lets cry more about Detroit getting Sheed :cry: ...that'll make it all better.

indytoad
02-20-2004, 12:01 PM
I can't see how it's possible to come out on top in a seven game series. beat us at almost important positon now.

B. Wallace > Foster
R. Wallace > Artest
Hamilton > Miller
Billups > Tinsley
Williamson = Harrington
Prince > Jones
Campbell > Pollard
Brown > Carlisle
etc...

The only advantage we have is JO over Okur, but with Rasheed down there too, I don't think Jermaine will be doing much.

The good news is we'll probably have home court if we meet them in the playoffs. Six games is a lot to make up. So the series might go to seven games instead of five or six.

Maybe Wallace will leave Detroit after this year. Of course that just puts the Knicks in front...

IndyToad
Adjust formation

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 12:09 PM
Ben Wallace is not a good defensive big man. He is highly, HIGHLY overrated...<more stupid drivel>....

Ladies and gents, exhibit A on why I rarely post on the Indystar forum anymore.

That's a special, special post. :rolleyes: :lolchair: :wtf: :shrug:

This is Hicks's forum, and I promised to be good. Your opinion is wrong, and if you knew anything about basketball you'd know Ben Wallace grabs a lot of boards and blocks some shots, but when it comes to post defense he is adequate at best and gawd awful bad at worst. When Carlisle coached Detroit he rarely put Wallace on JO because JO has pretty much scored on Ben at will. Cliff Robinson guarded JO because Cliff is (was) a better defender than Big Ben. Ben Wallace is like Deke Mutumbo-- lots of rebounds and blocks, but not very good interior defense on the block, man-on-man.

rabid
02-20-2004, 12:11 PM
October 29 Wed @ Detroit W 89-87
December 19 Fri Detroit W 80-75
January 20 Tue Detroit W 81-69

April 4 Sun @ Detroit 5:00 pm ??????

Geez, you guys are talking as if Jordan just returned to the '95 Bulls.

This is Sheed we're talking about here. Yes, he's extremely talented, but just two weeks ago everyone was still discussing his perennial Team Cancer status.

And yes, no Ron-Ron for awhile. But he'll be back for the playoffs. And it's really the playoffs we're discussing here.

As good as Detroit might POTENTIALLY be, a lot of you guys sure are falling off the Pacers' bandwagon mighty quick.

I, for one, still very much like our chances. Will Detroit present a major challenge? Of course. And what exactly is wrong with that?????? It'll make for a more exciting playoff...

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 12:12 PM
I can't see how it's possible to come out on top in a seven game series. beat us at almost important positon now.

B. Wallace > Foster
R. Wallace > Artest
Hamilton > Miller
Billups > Tinsley
Williamson = Harrington
Prince > Jones
Campbell > Pollard
Brown > Carlisle
etc...

The only advantage we have is JO over Okur, but with Rasheed down there too, I don't think Jermaine will be doing much.

The good news is we'll probably have home court if we meet them in the playoffs. Six games is a lot to make up. So the series might go to seven games instead of five or six.

Maybe Wallace will leave Detroit after this year. Of course that just puts the Knicks in front...

IndyToad
Adjust formation

I'm sorry, but Rasheed Wallace is NOT better than Ron Artest. Al harrington is a better player than Scoreless Williamson, hands down. rick Carlisle is a better coach thna Larry Brown (I recall Rick's team beating Larry's last year, and Larry had the Answer on his team while Rick had Chauncey friggin Billips).

The only positions Detroit has an advatnage over Indy are at the guards. However, if Reggie gets hot in the playoffs, that advanage melts away.

DisplacedKnick
02-20-2004, 12:14 PM
I wouldn't be ready to hand them "best team in the East" just yet.

Most of what it hinges on is what kind of player Rasheed decides he wants to be.

The guy still has mad skills and talent. I think he and Derrick Coleman should co-author a book titled, "How I managed not to be the Second Best Power Forward of My Generation."

The guy COULD be a 25-12 guy. The guy COULD be an extremely solid defender. The guy could also hang around the perimeter because those nasty refs won't call fouls when players bump him in the post and be a 15-6 guy with periodic temper tantrums.

If it all fits and he revitalizes his game then yeah, Detroit's gonna be tough to beat. All that's gotta happen though - and without Ben Wallace killing him.

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 12:34 PM
I guess part of the problem I see is that we need JO to hold his own against Wallace. And Wallace. And Okur. And Campbell. All of these guys are shaky matchups for Foster, Harrington, Pollard, etc.

JO is only one man. :(

Ben Wallace is not a good defensive big man. He is highly, HIGHLY overrated. Elden Campbell is a bum, and Okur is a solid player, nothing special. Compare that to JO (top 5 player in the NBA), Harrington (better than Elden, Meka, and Rasheed), Pollard (solid), Foster (also solid), and Croshere (inconsistent, but occasionally can explode), and I see no reason to state the obvious: the Pacer front court is STILL better than Detroit's.

Now the backcourt-- tha'ts a different story. :( Tinsley and Reggie must play with greater consistency. Can we please limit the 4-20 shooting nights to once every other game? I mean, good gravy! :puke:

If you're going to be here, then I might as well respond once just to see how it all works out.

(Takes deep breath)

I would normally argue that the Pacers front court is also better than NY's or NO's, but our serious lack of size up front is allowing those inferior - in my opinion - teams to push us around, dominate the paint, and manhandle us in a ballgame.

You weren't around but I'm the guy shouting out that JO is our "C" and that he's an MVP candidate. And I still believe that. I believe he's got to gain ten more pounds in the hips, thighs and butt this offseason.

But look at the rest of our "big men": Foster is as much of a natural PF as JO is a natural C but he's way too thin. Croshere = just not big enough. Polllard = too much of a liability even though he's got some size. Brezec = not physical enough and way too raw.

Against the Pistons, you'd have to put Harrington on Williamson. No way is he big enough to play Ben, Eldon, 'Sheed or Okur. If Prince isn't in the game, do we have put Ronnie against 'Sheed?

We haven't proven yet that we're able to maximize our quickness and consistently defeat the biggest, most bruising teams in the league.

Can Carlisle make the adjustement? I've said I'm scared of the Pistons, and I may have said that they're the favorite, but I haven't seriously said that I'm giving up. Besides, when I was on suicide watch yesterday, I demonstrated my best Scot Pollard and I missed from point blank range. :D

(Ever feel like the kid that has his eyes squeezed shut as he reaches for the "submit" button? - We'll see shortly if I'm going to regret this...)

fwpacerfan
02-20-2004, 01:55 PM
Hicks you really need to stop changing the web address, I thought this was PACERSdigest.com but I guess I stumbled onto the PISTONSdigest.com site!

You guys are amazing. This place has gone from handing the Pacers the Eastern Conference to the Pacers struggling to make the playoffs overnight! We've even got people going as far as saying the ENTIRE Pistons team is better than the ENTIRE Pacers team. If that is the case then why were the Pacers able to build a 6 game lead? The Pistons only added 1 player and now their ENTIRE roster is superior?

I agree the Pistons are better than they were yesterday morning but I'm in no way ready to hand them the championship. Call me a homer if you want to, but team chemistry is extremely important in this league (see last year's Pacers) and there are a few bright spots to Artest being out for awhile. Long term there are some players (Cro, 5.1, Pollard) who will get more minutes now. Also Ron will be 100%, rested and eager to prove himself come playoff time (unless you are in the "sky is falling" crowd who now think the Pacers aren't going to make the playoffs).

The fact this team can go 12 deep and has used everyone (except Primoz) fairly often this year will help them get through Artest's injury. Everyone needs to go home :cheers: drink some beer, chill out, watch the Pacers beat the Wizards tonight with 5.1 scoring 27 pts. and grabbing 10 boards and all will be well here on Monday! :gopacers:

Natston
02-20-2004, 02:10 PM
The Pistons could very well be "paper" champs right now, but our Pacers still control their own destiny and have the best record in the east... :rolleyes:

Booger
02-20-2004, 02:38 PM
Finally. I've been waiting MONTHS for a thread like this. We've finally are going to have one of those 100+ reply threads with substance to it. Some give and take both ways, several people making valid points . . . this is good. It's too bad we had to lose arguably our best player and for our main rival to upgrade their team to bring this out. Oh by the way, welcome New Yawk. I probably won't agree with much you say, but at least it's not going to be boring.

I am in Scott H's camp on this. I'm a long-time, die-hard Pacers fan, but I can't just go through all the crap that happened yesterday and not be a little (ok, a lot) concerned. The rah-rah brigade can say we've still got the conference's best record, a 6 game lead, yadda, yadda, yadda. . . but the fact is, the Pistons upgraded in a MAJOR way. I'm ready to annoint them as favorites for the East without watching them play a game with Rasheed. Your telling me a team which can throw a line-up at us of Billups, Hamilton, Wallace, Wallace, Okur or Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, Wallace isn't going to give us severe headaches in the post-season when rotations are tight??

We've got a hell of a team, and it looked like just last week that a 60+ win season, and a trip to the Finals wasn't just a possibility . . . it was expected. Now, a week later, minus Artest until the playoffs, I'm still confident we can keep the #1 seed. BUT I have no idea what to expect during the time of the year that actually matters. If we're going to make the Finals this year, we're going to have to win some wars. Be it the Pistons, Nets, Hornets, or even the Knicks.

We haven't made it out of the first round since 2000.

Forgive me if I'm not optimistic.

Natston
02-20-2004, 02:49 PM
Your telling me a team which can throw a line-up at us of Billups, Hamilton, Wallace, Wallace, Okur or Billups, Hamilton, Prince, Wallace, Wallace isn't going to give us severe headaches in the post-season when rotations are tight??


Hence my paper champions thought. Yes that is a hell of a lineup but there is still only one ball to go around. Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace? I don't know if the Pistons could go with your first line up all that much because I don't see Rasheed or Memet as a consistent enough perimeter defenders. Of course who's to say there wont be any injuries...

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 02:51 PM
Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace?


Larry Brown.

Natston
02-20-2004, 02:52 PM
Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace?


Larry Brown.

Sometimes even the best coach can't control everything...

Booger
02-20-2004, 03:00 PM
I'm just afraid people are underestimating how much this trade COULD improve the Pistons. Could Rasheed cause problems like he did in Portland and burn the Pistons to the ground?? Sure. But not likely.

The point is the Pistons are now 10 times the threat they were just 2 days ago. And, to me, that's worth being concerned about because they were a pretty damn good team before.

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 03:01 PM
Your opinion is wrong, and if you knew anything about basketball you'd know Ben Wallace grabs a lot of boards and blocks some shots, but when it comes to post defense he is adequate at best and gawd awful bad at worst.

If I knew anything about basketball?? :finger: :censor:

Blocks "some" shots?? He's freaking 2nd in the entire NBA in Shot blocking.

2nd.

Entire.

NBA.

"Some shots"??

This is a headline from NBA.com last year:

NBA Defensive Player of the Year Ben Wallace Tops 2002-03 All-Defensive Team Selection

NEW YORK ? Detroit Pistons? center Ben Wallace, the two-time NBA Defensive Player of the Year, led the voting for the 2002-03 NBA All-Defensive Teams, which were announced by the NBA on May 8....."

Seriously, do you even listen to what you say? :rolleyes: :confused: :dunce:

At all??

GEEZZ!!! :shout: :wtf:

Again, this is Hick's forum, so I will be good. :peace:

If it were the Star forum, I'd rip you another bunghole, and we'd be back and forth with insults all day. I will merely say that the Defensive Player of the Year means nothing. Anybody who saw anything last year knows Ben Wallace was NOT the best defensive player last year. Ron Artest was. This year, Artest is STILL the best defensive player, but will most likely not get the award because of his resent injury. You can post all the block shots and rebounds he's gotten, and I'll remind you that blocked shots and rebounds do not equate to good defense. That's just common flocking knowledge. Defense is preventing your man from scoring. For a big man, it's being able to body up on another big man and take him out of his game WITHOUT the need of a double team. Simple, basic basketball knowledge. Ben Wallace, despite his bulk, size, and strength, is not good at doing this. When he won DPY last year, the ESPN announcers doing a game said, "Wonder what league they [the judges] were watching." So again, DPY means nothing here. Blocked shots. Rebounds. :umimpressed: Nothing.

Popeye Jones can rebound. He must be a stud defender then. Shawn Bradley can block shots. Must be a reeeeaaaaal stopper. :rolleyes:

Ben Wallace can't stop his man from scoring. Simple as that.

Bball
02-20-2004, 03:01 PM
one more point: What have the pistons done to prove they are better than the pacers.....NOTHING


What the Pistons have done to 'prove' they are better than the Pacers? I'd say an argument could be made that Dumars has shown he is willing to make moves to move the team forward and not stagnate. To not stand pat in the face of the competition.

I'd even be willing to say an argument could be made for that being an economic success as well. It keeps the fans energized.

You could argue that dumping Carlisle was silly... OTOH.... how could you not make an argument FOR getting Larry Brown as coach?

Sooooo some of his moves are gambles but they aren't really 'big' gambles. The other thing that -I- like is Dumars not letting mistakes fester. cough *Bender*....cough..... He seems to have a 'cut our losses and move on' policy. IE: If Darko was to hit a wall or regress as an NBA player I bet you don't see him getting an extension or still on the Pistons 5 years from now.

OTOH... the Pacers are on the top of the heap looking back so it affords them the ability to make an argument for standing pat. Sometimes there is a fine line between "If it ain't broke don't fix it' and not making any changes to your winning race car while all your competitors are working their tails off with new designs and pieces with you in their sights.

(BTW: I have only read the first page of this thread so hopefully I am not going over someone else's points/issues).

-Bball

Natston
02-20-2004, 03:03 PM
I'm just afraid people are underestimating how much this trade COULD improve the Pistons. Could Rasheed cause problems like he did in Portland and burn the Pistons to the ground?? Sure. But not likely.

The point is the Pistons are now 10 times the threat they were just 2 days ago. And, to me, that's worth being concerned about because they were a pretty damn good team before.

If anyone on this board can say that they are not concerned by that trade, then imo they are only kidding themselves...

Booger
02-20-2004, 03:06 PM
I'm just afraid people are underestimating how much this trade COULD improve the Pistons. Could Rasheed cause problems like he did in Portland and burn the Pistons to the ground?? Sure. But not likely.

The point is the Pistons are now 10 times the threat they were just 2 days ago. And, to me, that's worth being concerned about because they were a pretty damn good team before.

If anyone on this board can say that they are not concerned by that trade, then imo they are only kidding themselves...


That's just it. There are some posts on this thread (and others) that give off that impression. Aka, the sunshine brigade.

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 03:07 PM
Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace?


Larry Brown.

Sometimes even the best coach can't control everything...

True...

But he did a pretty good job getting the 2001 Sixers into The Finals after trading for Motumbo at the deadline.

But let me be clear: if 'Sheed went to to NY to play for Lenny, or Jersey to play for thier new coach, I wouldn't be anywhere near as concerned.

So I don't think it will take Detroit very long to get used to him, and I don't expect them to have chemistry problems. Problems defending the perimter - perhaps. I wouldn't want to be basing my belief that the Pacers are still the favorite in the East on whether Brownie can master the coaching part of the equation.

Booger
02-20-2004, 03:11 PM
...OTOH... the Pacers are on the top of the heap looking back so it affords them the ability to make an argument for standing pat. Sometimes there is a fine line between "If it ain't broke don't fix it' and not making any changes to your winning race car while all your competitors are working their tails off with new designs and pieces with you in their sights.

I'm willing to give Bird this year to make judgements on this team. I'm hoping he doesn't become brain-walshed :) , afraid to take gambles to improve the team.

Donnie, I think it's time to hang 'em up bud. I've enjoyed the ride, but it's time to park the car (and hand over the keys).

Kstat
02-20-2004, 03:12 PM
Ben Wallace is not a good defensive big man. He is highly, HIGHLY overrated.

I believe you forgot to say, "these arent the droids you're looking for." :laugh:

Ah, its been a while since we had an unobjective homer on the board. Perhaps NewYawk can will writerman's shoes....

Its a complete myth, but I doubt youd change your mind if I explained it to you.

Hence my paper champions thought. Yes that is a hell of a lineup but there is still only one ball to go around. Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace? I don't know if the Pistons could go with your first line up all that much because I don't see Rasheed or Memet as a consistent enough perimeter defenders. Of course who's to say there wont be any injuries
The thing is, we were LOOKING for someone to give the ball to. We have a lot of guys that defer to others, and Rasheed I think could be someone that everyone else feeds off of.

For the record, I think Indiana could still win the east. I just think the odds between us and them are even now.

No reason to mail in the season, but also I dont see how anyone can claim victory just yet. We'll have to wait and see how things will work out.....

Natston
02-20-2004, 03:14 PM
No reason to mail in the season, but also I dont see how anyone can claim victory just yet. We'll have to wait and see how things will work out.....

Exactly... :)

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 03:30 PM
Ben Wallace is not a good defensive big man. He is highly, HIGHLY overrated.

I believe you forgot to say, "these arent the droids you're looking for." :laugh:

Ah, its been a while since we had an unobjective homer on the board. Perhaps NewYawk can will writerman's shoes....

I'm sorry KStat, but you are the very definition of "unobjective homer." You vomited when you heard Detroit fired Carlisle, and then made all kinds of excuses when they hired Brown. I rest my case. BTW: Hi! Nice to hear from you. :smile:

[quote] Its a complete myth, but I doubt youd change your mind if I explained it to you.

No, it's not. You are hardly an authority of your team, as you slant EVERYTHING in their favor. Wallace is not a good post defender. Simple truth. Deal with it.

And please do not compare me to writerman.

Kstat
02-20-2004, 03:34 PM
Ben Wallace is not a good defensive big man. He is highly, HIGHLY overrated.

I believe you forgot to say, "these arent the droids you're looking for." :laugh:

Ah, its been a while since we had an unobjective homer on the board. Perhaps NewYawk can will writerman's shoes....

I'm sorry KStat, but you are the very definition of "unobjective homer." You vomited when you heard Detroit fired Carlisle, and then made all kinds of excuses when they hired Brown. I rest my case. BTW: Hi! Nice to hear from you. :smile:

[quote] Its a complete myth, but I doubt youd change your mind if I explained it to you.

No, it's not. You are hardly an authority of your team, as you slant EVERYTHING in their favor. Wallace is not a good post defender. Simple truth. Deal with it.

And please do not compare me to writerman.

The infadels are being crushed as we speak....

Everyone here knows what I'm really about. I really dont need to explain myself to you.

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 03:38 PM
I'm just afraid people are underestimating how much this trade COULD improve the Pistons. Could Rasheed cause problems like he did in Portland and burn the Pistons to the ground?? Sure. But not likely.

The point is the Pistons are now 10 times the threat they were just 2 days ago. And, to me, that's worth being concerned about because they were a pretty damn good team before.

If anyone on this board can say that they are not concerned by that trade, then imo they are only kidding themselves...

That's just it. There are some posts on this thread (and others) that give off that impression. Aka, the sunshine brigade.

In case you weren't paying attention at the top of the thread:

Sunshine Brigade:
Able
Roy
MSA2CF
ROCIslandWarrior
fwpacerfan
NewYawk
PacerMan
BurtNader

Undetermined:
MagicRat
Shade
btown
Tim
Kegboy
NaturallyStoned
bulletproof
bball

Concerned:
UB
zxc
Jay
Booger
Geezer
Hicks
Peck
Skaut
IndyToad
waxman
RabidPacersFan
Gyron ("concerned but confident")

Sympathetic Friends:
dipperdunk
DisplacedKnick

Gloating Friend:
Kstat

Regulars that haven't really chimed in:
Ragnar
Arizona
Suaveness
Doug
Will Galen
Alabama Redneck
keresene
sixthman

Now I may have mis-categorized somebody, but that's what I got when I re-read the entire thread and combine it with a couple other threads.

But I look at that list under "concerned" - all of us are long-term Pacers fans and I'd be dumbfounded if any of us were really "giving up" on our team. So keep in mind there is a big difference between abandoning the Pacers and feeling less hopeful about our championship prospects for this season.

:idea: GO PACERS!

Kstat
02-20-2004, 03:49 PM
To think I was conceeding defeat friend yesterday.....ah, how things change.....

DisplacedKnick
02-20-2004, 03:52 PM
Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace?


Larry Brown.

Sometimes even the best coach can't control everything...

True...

But he did a pretty good job getting the 2001 Sixers into The Finals after trading for Motumbo at the deadline.

But let me be clear: if 'Sheed went to to NY to play for Lenny, or Jersey to play for thier new coach, I wouldn't be anywhere near as concerned.

So I don't think it will take Detroit very long to get used to him, and I don't expect them to have chemistry problems. Problems defending the perimter - perhaps. I wouldn't want to be basing my belief that the Pacers are still the favorite in the East on whether Brownie can master the coaching part of the equation.

That's an issue. When Mo Cheeks took over the Blazers Sheed turned into a model citizen - for a while. In this case it's late enough in the season that switching teams, conferences and coaches may carry over through the playoffs.

Or maybe not - guess we'll find out.

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 03:56 PM
Everyone here knows what I'm really about. I really dont need to explain myself to you.

You're right. Everyone here and at the Star knows you are a diehard, homer Piston's fan, and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. It's one of the reasons I like your posts. However, when you claim to be objective it's laughable.

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 03:58 PM
To think I was conceeding defeat friend yesterday.....ah, how things change.....


You've been well-behaved for a "Gloating Friend". If some of us were visiting a Pistons forum and the tables were turned... I don't know how that would turn out.

:punch:

Unclebuck
02-20-2004, 04:01 PM
To think I was conceeding defeat friend yesterday.....ah, how things change.....

Yeh, you were standing on the ledge and you were about ready to jump, in fact I think you did already jump but somehow you survived the jump and now look you are on top of the world.

PaceBalls
02-20-2004, 04:09 PM
Sheed isnt what you all seem to think, he is more like what Bill Walton thinks of him, a cancer to a team. Detroit just panicked, and they won't be any better off. cept with cap space next year. They aint winning crap in the post season this year, bet on it.

Wait till Sheed calls LarryBrown his ***** and starts yelling at his teammates on the court. Ya what a great add /sarcasm

You guys are all freakin out about a team that is like 1-8 the last few games who just traded off key parts of their team for a mentally unstable a$$hole in sheed.

Booger
02-20-2004, 04:14 PM
I think Burtrem just declared allegiance to the sunshine brigade. :uhoh: :D

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 04:15 PM
Sheed isnt what you all seem to think, he is more like what Bill Walton thinks of him, a cancer to a team. Detroit just panicked, and they won't be any better off. cept with cap space next year. They aint winning crap in the post season this year, bet on it.

Wait till Sheed calls LarryBrown his ***** and starts yelling at his teammates on the court. Ya what a great add /sarcasm

You guys are all freakin out about a team that is like 1-8 the last few games who just traded off key parts of their team for a mentally unstable a$$hole in sheed.

Those d@m# TarHeels have thier own little secret society crap - I imagine that if 'Sheed called Brownie his b!+ch, Dean Smith would reverse his position on the death penalty just for use on 'Sheed.

PaceBalls
02-20-2004, 04:21 PM
Sheed isnt what you all seem to think, he is more like what Bill Walton thinks of him, a cancer to a team. Detroit just panicked, and they won't be any better off. cept with cap space next year. They aint winning crap in the post season this year, bet on it.

Wait till Sheed calls LarryBrown his ***** and starts yelling at his teammates on the court. Ya what a great add /sarcasm

You guys are all freakin out about a team that is like 1-8 the last few games who just traded off key parts of their team for a mentally unstable a$$hole in sheed.

Those d@m# TarHeels have thier own little secret society crap - I imagine that if 'Sheed called Brownie his b!+ch, Dean Smith would reverse his position on the death penalty just for use on 'Sheed.


haha, oh ya, I forgot about the Tarheel secret society. You got a point there, maybe sheed will have enough respect for LB to make it work... bahhhh hahah no he won't.

Hicks
02-20-2004, 04:22 PM
Welcome, NewYawk. :welcome:

I'm very happy to see you're making a concious effort to be civil, and that's what we practice here, so kudos. :)

I will caution you though that when you exaggerate your statements to make a point, it turns people off quickly, so be careful. :)

Otherwise, hope you enjoy this place and add to the community. :hippie:

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 04:31 PM
I think Burtrem just declared allegiance to the sunshine brigade. :uhoh: :D

Yep. I threw it in up there a few minutes ago.

Gyron
02-20-2004, 04:38 PM
Who's to say that there won't chemistry problems, best/worst case scenerio team meltdown, or on court confusion with the addition of Wallace?


Larry Brown.

Yeah cause Larry Brown did such a wonderful job of controling the whole AI thing right?
:laugh:

waxman
02-20-2004, 04:39 PM
Sunshine brigade??? really... :laugh:

By simply saying.... don't annoint Detroit the Eastern conference champs... I was just a little tired of the "suicide watch" that was going on here.

Sunshine Brigade hints of blind optimism... and that is just silly.
There is plenty to be concerned about...we just lost Artest for god knows how long.....New Orlearns just kicked our ***...New York is now a much better team and a contender...New Jersey has won what? 11 in a row... Detroit just signed Rasheed, and is now probably the best team in the east.

Yeah...this is more enjoyable.


Detroit has the mantel of Eastern Conference favorite now... let them carry that load for a while....thats fine.

rabid
02-20-2004, 04:44 PM
Um.... FYI... I think you can safely put me in the "concerned" category.

There's a difference between being CONCERNED and completely giving up on the season in less than 24 hours.

Please don't put me in the "sunshine brigade" or whatever you're calling it. Thanks.

:nunchuck:

Gyron
02-20-2004, 04:45 PM
Oh yeah, for the record, please sign me up for a new category, Concerned but confident


:D

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 04:50 PM
Sunshine brigade??? really... :laugh:

By simply saying.... don't annoint Detroit the Eastern conference champs... I was just a little tired of the "suicide watch" that was going on here.

Sunshine Brigade hints of blind optimism... and that is just silly.
There is plenty to be concerned about...we just lost Artest for god knows how long.....New Orlearns just kicked our ***...New York is now a much better team and a contender...New Jersey has won what? 11 in a row... Detroit just signed Rasheed, and is now probably the best team in the east.

Yeah...this is more enjoyable.


Detroit has the mantel of Eastern Conference favorite now... let them carry that load for a while....thats fine.

I had a big question mark next to your name as I made the list. I'll move you out of the "sunshine brigade" if you'd prefer - I agree that your comments weren't as blindly optimistic as some of the other early posts, but as you said you weren't on suicide watch like uhh :blush:

PaceBalls
02-20-2004, 04:52 PM
more like the Reality Check Brigade

Sheed is a total cancer.

And losing Ron aint so bad we do have a great player just itchin to step up. I'll tell you what would've been really bad though, if we had traded AL for a SG and then Ron had surgery. Everything is all good in Pacerland. Give em a break and well see how AL and the P's do after 10 games without Ron.

Pacers 3 wins
Pistons 3 losses.

AL > Sheed

Kstat
02-20-2004, 04:55 PM
I want you to state with a STRAIGHT face that AL is better than Sheed Wallace.

rabid
02-20-2004, 04:57 PM
I want you to state with a STRAIGHT face that AL is better than Sheed Wallace.


Uh... who said that???? :confused:

Kstat
02-20-2004, 04:59 PM
more like the Reality Check Brigade

Sheed is a total cancer.

And losing Ron aint so bad we do have a great player just itchin to step up. I'll tell you what would've been really bad though, if we had traded AL for a SG and then Ron had surgery. Everything is all good in Pacerland. Give em a break and well see how AL and the P's do after 10 games without Ron.

Pacers 3 wins
Pistons 3 losses.

AL > Sheed

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 04:59 PM
I want you to state with a STRAIGHT face that AL is better than Sheed Wallace.


Uh... who said that???? :confused:

Burt did... right when I was thinking about changing his category. Now he's stuck in the sunshine. :D

rabid
02-20-2004, 05:00 PM
more like the Reality Check Brigade

Sheed is a total cancer.

And losing Ron aint so bad we do have a great player just itchin to step up. I'll tell you what would've been really bad though, if we had traded AL for a SG and then Ron had surgery. Everything is all good in Pacerland. Give em a break and well see how AL and the P's do after 10 games without Ron.

Pacers 3 wins
Pistons 3 losses.

AL > Sheed

Ah yes.

Well, that's unfortunate, isn't it.

:laugh:

PaceBalls
02-20-2004, 05:01 PM
Al "the Hurricane" Harrington is a better player than Sheed.

Younger, better doesn't get paid 20million, and not cancer like Sheed is.

Just wait and well compare the 2 players #'s after 10 games of AL starting and Sheed starting.

lol ok, stick me in the sunshine brigade :P

pacers rule~

rabid
02-20-2004, 05:02 PM
Al "the Hurricane" Harrington is a better player than Sheed.

Younger, better doesn't get paid 20million, and not cancer like Sheed is.

Just wait and well compare the 2 players #'s after 10 games of AL starting and Sheed starting.

This is getting interesting. Perhaps you guys should have a friendly wager... :signit:

ChicagoJ
02-20-2004, 05:02 PM
Al "the Hurricane" Harrington is a better player than Sheed.

Younger, better doesn't get paid 20million, and not cancer like Sheed is.

Just wait and well compare the 2 players #'s after 10 games of AL starting and Sheed starting.

Burt, I hope you're right. But you'll have to understand that I'm going to leave you in the sunshine brigade now.

PaceBalls
02-20-2004, 05:04 PM
Al "the Hurricane" Harrington is a better player than Sheed.

Younger, better doesn't get paid 20million, and not cancer like Sheed is.

Just wait and well compare the 2 players #'s after 10 games of AL starting and Sheed starting.

This is getting interesting. Perhaps you guys should have a friendly wager... :signit:

I would wager 1 million fake poker chips on partypoker :P

waxman
02-20-2004, 05:09 PM
Sunshine brigade??? really... :laugh:

By simply saying.... don't annoint Detroit the Eastern conference champs... I was just a little tired of the "suicide watch" that was going on here.

Sunshine Brigade hints of blind optimism... and that is just silly.
There is plenty to be concerned about...we just lost Artest for god knows how long.....New Orlearns just kicked our ***...New York is now a much better team and a contender...New Jersey has won what? 11 in a row... Detroit just signed Rasheed, and is now probably the best team in the east.

Yeah...this is more enjoyable.


Detroit has the mantel of Eastern Conference favorite now... let them carry that load for a while....thats fine.

I had a big question mark next to your name as I made the list. I'll move you out of the "sunshine brigade" if you'd prefer - I agree that your comments weren't as blindly optimistic as some of the other early posts, but as you said you weren't on suicide watch like uhh :blush:


I don't care too much really...no big deal my friend... I'm definately concerned.... but almost more concerned about how we've been playing than what other teams are doing.

I more pissed about the Rasheed deal and that the Hawks have been allowed to dump alll their high priced talent without demanding much more than a steaming bag of poo in return. :bs:

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 05:11 PM
Welcome, NewYawk. :welcome:

I'm very happy to see you're making a concious effort to be civil, and that's what we practice here, so kudos. :)

I will caution you though that when you exaggerate your statements to make a point, it turns people off quickly, so be careful. :)

Otherwise, hope you enjoy this place and add to the community. :hippie:

Thank you man. You've made an impressive forum here. Mucho props. I won't post here often because I simply don't have the time. But I will speak my mind, but probably not as harsh as I usually do. I'll act more civil because this is your forum and not the Star, which has some issues.

NewYawk
02-20-2004, 05:14 PM
I want you to state with a STRAIGHT face that AL is better than Sheed Wallace.

"Al Harrington is better than Rasheed Wallace," said NewYawk with a face so straight John Kerry was jealous.

Hicks
02-20-2004, 05:26 PM
more like the Reality Check Brigade

Sheed is a total cancer.

And losing Ron aint so bad we do have a great player just itchin to step up. I'll tell you what would've been really bad though, if we had traded AL for a SG and then Ron had surgery. Everything is all good in Pacerland. Give em a break and well see how AL and the P's do after 10 games without Ron.

Pacers 3 wins
Pistons 3 losses.

AL > Sheed

Ah yes.

Well, that's unfortunate, isn't it.

:laugh:

:laugh:

PaceBalls
02-20-2004, 05:30 PM
HARHARH well, we all shall see. You guys can keep trying to big up Sheed and downplay AL like you are Pistons fans, but AL is a superior player.

Artest > Sheed
AL > Sheed
JO > Sheed

fwpacerfan
02-21-2004, 08:07 AM
Thanks Jay - ever since I was 5 I've wanted to be in a 'brigade'!!!! :laugh:

Let's chat after 10 games or so. I think my 'brigade' will be a little larger.

MagicRat
02-21-2004, 08:49 AM
:ninja:

ChicagoJ
02-21-2004, 11:49 AM
Thanks Jay - ever since I was 5 I've wanted to be in a 'brigade'!!!! :laugh:

Let's chat after 10 games or so. I think my 'brigade' will be a little larger.

:laugh: Glad I could help out.

I hope in ten games that I'm feeling better about our chances.

For the record, I'm off suicide watch now. :D

duaneok66
02-23-2004, 01:26 AM
HARHARH well, we all shall see. You guys can keep trying to big up Sheed and downplay AL like you are Pistons fans, but AL is a superior player.


AL > Sheed



only on a Pacers board . . .

MagicRat
03-13-2004, 12:39 AM
:deadhorse: :notlistening:

PaceBalls
03-13-2004, 02:58 AM
Well Al proved me wrong these last 2 weeks in the AL vs Sheed ... I admit it :p

but I bet AL outplays him the next 2 weeks though

Millerartest
03-14-2004, 02:13 PM
I was just watching the Pistons on ABC today v. Sixers and they look downright scary. No apparent weaknesses. Stifling defense. Absolutely stifling. Guards pressuring forcing turnovers, Big Ben cleaning up everything down low like a soccer goalie. Rasheed Wallace makes this team way better in every way. I think they'll handle the Nets in the playoffs and we will have a monster battle for the Eastern Conference Championship. I just hope our young guys can step up under the pressure, because when they playoffs start, seasoned players and players in their prime usually have their way.

Hicks
03-14-2004, 02:48 PM
I watched the 1st half. We can beat them. They're good, but no scary good.

indytoad
03-14-2004, 02:54 PM
I really don't see how. They deny everything down low, so even if you manage to shake their guards, which is hard enough, you're going to get blocked once you get in the lane. Our offense isn't nearly good enough at outside shooting to overcome a defense like constructed like that. And on the other end, their ball movement is fantastic. Not much any defense can do about that.

IndyToad
Not happy

Hicks
03-14-2004, 02:56 PM
I really don't see how. They deny everything down low, so even if you manage to shake their guards, which is hard enough, you're going to get blocked once you get in the lane. Our offense isn't nearly good enough at outside shooting to overcome a defense like constructed like that. And on the other end, their ball movement is fantastic. Not much any defense can do about that.

IndyToad
Not happy

They deny the SIXERS FRONT LINE (or lackthereof). Call me crazy, but I think JO and Ron will find ways to put the ball in the whole.

I could get into details (don't want to, but can), but we're much sharper, more efficient, better coached than Philly. Oh, and we have better players + low post presence. And we play team D that's close to theirs, so it's not like they'll blitz us too often on offense.

We'll be fine.

Hicks
03-14-2004, 02:57 PM
And on the other end, their ball movement is fantastic. Not much any defense can do about that.

Good thing the Pacers have good ball movement then, huh?

Shade
03-14-2004, 03:01 PM
I was just watching the Pistons on ABC today v. Sixers and they look downright scary. No apparent weaknesses. Stifling defense. Absolutely stifling. Guards pressuring forcing turnovers, Big Ben cleaning up everything down low like a soccer goalie. Rasheed Wallace makes this team way better in every way. I think they'll handle the Nets in the playoffs and we will have a monster battle for the Eastern Conference Championship. I just hope our young guys can step up under the pressure, because when they playoffs start, seasoned players and players in their prime usually have their way.

This is the first time I've seen the Pistons play since the trade. My analysis:

Their defense is VERY good, especially in the halfcourt. They play a lot of zone and like to press. Kind of reminds me of a Kentucky-style defense.

They like to cut to the hoop a lot on offense, but both Wallaces tend to play out a lot, which leads to some rebounding deficiency.

They seem to get easily rattled by a good defense, especially one that packs it in inside.

Nobody can the run the point for them nearly as effectively as Billups. Without him, they seem to have a lot of miscues and bad passes.

Prince looks kind of lost out there at times, especially brining the ball up the court. He also tends to commit to the air when he tries to penetrate and runs into a man, which can often lead to a travel or turnover.

They have, perhaps, the worst bench in the NBA. They can be worn down.

In a nutshell, the Pistons are good and can cause problems on the defensive end, but they're far from having "no apparent weaknesses." You just have to look at it subjectively. If we bring our "A" game, we can beat the Pistons. They can't stop all of our weapons, but we can stop most of theirs. And our defense isn't exactly anything to scoff at, either. ;)

Kstat
03-14-2004, 05:31 PM
Lindsey Hunter?

Mehmet Okur?

Mike James?

Corliss Williamson?

WORST BENCH IN THE NBA???

Shade, im REALLY dissapointed in you. That was a dumb, DUMB thing to say.....

And dont judge Tay by this game. He shouldnt even have been playing with that shoulder of his.

DisplacedKnick
03-14-2004, 07:18 PM
Gotta say the trade to Det has re-energized Rasheed - he was all over the place.

But he still doesn't play in the post and without some sort of post scoring, Detroit's gonna have a tough time getting to the finals.

Shade
03-14-2004, 07:41 PM
Lindsey Hunter?

Mehmet Okur?

Mike James?

Corliss Williamson?

WORST BENCH IN THE NBA???

Shade, im REALLY dissapointed in you. That was a dumb, DUMB thing to say.....

And dont judge Tay by this game. He shouldnt even have been playing with that shoulder of his.

Outside of Okur, nobody on that list scares me at all. Maybe Corliss a little.

Hunter? James?

Nope. Not scared. :p

Kstat
03-14-2004, 10:10 PM
Lindsey Hunter?

Mehmet Okur?

Mike James?

Corliss Williamson?

WORST BENCH IN THE NBA???

Shade, im REALLY dissapointed in you. That was a dumb, DUMB thing to say.....

And dont judge Tay by this game. He shouldnt even have been playing with that shoulder of his.

Outside of Okur, nobody on that list scares me at all. Maybe Corliss a little.

Hunter? James?

Nope. Not scared. :p

Um, have you seen Hunter play lately? Defensively, he's easily the best guard on either detroit or Indiana.

unstandable
03-14-2004, 10:18 PM
Outside of Okur, nobody on that list scares me at all. Maybe Corliss a little.

Hunter? James?

Nope. Not scared. :p

Outside of Harrington and maybe Bender, no one is scared of anyone on the Pacers bench either. But that doesn't mean the Pacers have the worst bench in the league. The Pistons have two guys on their bench who were starters most of the season (Okur and James), and a third who could start on lots of teams (Williamson), which makes it a pretty good bench by league standards.

Shade
03-14-2004, 10:18 PM
Lindsey Hunter?

Mehmet Okur?

Mike James?

Corliss Williamson?

WORST BENCH IN THE NBA???

Shade, im REALLY dissapointed in you. That was a dumb, DUMB thing to say.....

And dont judge Tay by this game. He shouldnt even have been playing with that shoulder of his.

Outside of Okur, nobody on that list scares me at all. Maybe Corliss a little.

Hunter? James?

Nope. Not scared. :p

Um, have you seen Hunter play lately? Defensively, he's easily the best guard on either detroit or Indiana.

Only today, and I wasn't impressed.

If Detroit normally plays much differently than today, then my analysis may not be accurate. I'm going off of what I saw today, and I saw a lot of flaws.

MagicRat
03-14-2004, 10:36 PM
Lindsey Hunter?

Mehmet Okur?

Mike James?

Corliss Williamson?

WORST BENCH IN THE NBA???

Shade, im REALLY dissapointed in you. That was a dumb, DUMB thing to say.....

And dont judge Tay by this game. He shouldnt even have been playing with that shoulder of his.

:giveup:

http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/nightmare2.jpg

:rolleyes:

Kstat
03-14-2004, 10:51 PM
*casts early vote to MagicRat for forum MVP*

Shade
03-14-2004, 10:53 PM
http://home.comcast.net/~magic_rat/nightmare2.jpg

:rolleyes:

:rotflmao:

Suaveness
03-15-2004, 02:23 AM
Outside of Okur, nobody on that list scares me at all. Maybe Corliss a little.

Hunter? James?

Nope. Not scared. :p

Outside of Harrington and maybe Bender, no one is scared of anyone on the Pacers bench either. But that doesn't mean the Pacers have the worst bench in the league. The Pistons have two guys on their bench who were starters most of the season (Okur and James), and a third who could start on lots of teams (Williamson), which makes it a pretty good bench by league standards.

Harrington, Bender, Jones, Croshere are all capable...all can score, and play D as well. I see nothing that makes Detroit's bench any good. Okur can be a starter, yes, but James and Williamson? Please. They could start on lousy teams like Boston and Toronto, but not decent teams. Pacers bench is one of the best in the NBA, Detroit is nowhere near that.

unstandable
03-15-2004, 03:02 AM
James and Hunter are both good defenders, and Williamson and Okur are both good scorers. Williamson was sixth-man of the year two years ago. The debate wasn't whether the Pistons bench is better than the Pacers bench, just whether the Pistons bench is the worst in the league. It's clearly not.

I do think Indiana has a better bench than Detroit mainly due to Harrington (though I'm not any more impressed by Jones and Croshere than I am by James and Hunter). If Okur adjusts well to coming off the bench and plays like he had been playing as a starter, then Detroit's bench could be just as good or better than Indiana's. But that's not a sure thing.

The Pistons bench is certainly worse offensively than it was the last two years when they led the league in bench scoring with Jon Barry and Chucky Atkins (and Prince and Okur last year).

King Mob
03-15-2004, 03:37 AM
In 11 games since acquiring Rasheed (excluding the Minnesota game when he and James were yanked at the half) the Pistons are 9-2 scoring 91.7 ppg and holding opponents to 69 ppg.

The Pacers are also 9-2, scoring 95.6 ppg and holding opponents to 88 ppg.

Give credit where credit is due, Pacers fans, right now, 14 games from the playoffs, the Pistons are arguably playing better than the Pacers are.

DisplacedKnick
03-15-2004, 03:45 AM
Lindsey Hunter?

Mehmet Okur?

Mike James?

Corliss Williamson?

WORST BENCH IN THE NBA???

Shade, im REALLY dissapointed in you. That was a dumb, DUMB thing to say.....

And dont judge Tay by this game. He shouldnt even have been playing with that shoulder of his.

Outside of Okur, nobody on that list scares me at all. Maybe Corliss a little.

Hunter? James?

Nope. Not scared. :p

Um, have you seen Hunter play lately? Defensively, he's easily the best guard on either detroit or Indiana.

Only today, and I wasn't impressed.

If Detroit normally plays much differently than today, then my analysis may not be accurate. I'm going off of what I saw today, and I saw a lot of flaws.

I saw some flaws too - but every team in the NBA has some flaws.

Holding opponents to under 70 ppg on a consistent basis can cover for a lot of flaws. Not that Philly's any kind of offensive juggernaut but they're still an NBA team - and Portland, Denver and Seattle all can put up points.

Unclebuck
03-22-2004, 10:12 AM
I can't watch the Pistons anymore, their defense is too good. I have not seen a more disruptive defensive team in many years. They pressure the ball and are in the passing lanes and with the Wallaces at the basket they don't give up anything easy. Larry Brown must be in heaven with this team

Their defense is scary

Unclebuck
06-03-2004, 12:34 AM
Here is a thread I spent 20 minutes trying to find. This was started just after the Sheed trade.

Interesting to read now.


it seems wierd to read, "with or without Artest" I forgot that back in late Feb. Artest was suppose to miss the rest of the regular season

Unclebuck
06-03-2004, 12:55 AM
If we can close out the season playing 0.500 (14-14), which is a possibility even with Ron out, then Detroit would have to go 20-6 to take the #1 seed (which won't happen, there will be some learning curve with all the changes (I hope.)), and NJ would have to go 22-8, which isn't unreasonable I suppose.

http://www.handuniversity.com/topics.asp?Topic_ID=29

[quote]

.


That is amazing Jay, the Pistons did finish the season 20-6.

waterjater
06-03-2004, 01:31 AM
wow, I wish your insight back on the 20th of Feb was WRONG!

Water

ChicagoJ
06-03-2004, 01:00 PM
If we can close out the season playing 0.500 (14-14), which is a possibility even with Ron out, then Detroit would have to go 20-6 to take the #1 seed (which won't happen, there will be some learning curve with all the changes (I hope.)), and NJ would have to go 22-8, which isn't unreasonable I suppose.


That is amazing Jay, the Pistons did finish the season 20-6.

I really thought it would take them longer to adjust. They've had a very impressive run since that trade. :mad: :(

As I said before, where's my suicide smilie? The Metallica/ One lyrics just don't fully express my depression these days.

Fool
06-03-2004, 02:47 PM
Unclebuck, that was a great read. Thank you for bringing it back up.

P.S. Too bad you didn't actually bet that 10 grand. It would have lightened the blow (I mean that in a nice way).

ChicagoJ
06-03-2004, 03:30 PM
Yeah, I just re-read this thing.

Lots of good stuff in here:

- The Sunshine Brigade vs. The Sky Is Falling Club.

- NY's first posts over here with a promise to be good :laugh: .

- Rat's Forum-MVP-worthy photoshopping performance.

- Some pretty good basketball analysis throughout by our guys that like to do that.

- And a nice dose of homerism peppered throughout by our guys that like to do that.

[hr]
We've had a sticky up at the top thanking the well-behaved portion of Pistons fans that joined us over the past couple of weeks, and asking them to stick around or re-join us next season.

But we've also had a lot of good Pacers fans find us recently, and hopefully you'll also stick around this summer and next season and contribute to this place.

:dance:

ChicagoJ
02-24-2005, 12:48 PM
:bump:ing our most recent trade-dealine angst.

Sound familiar?

:banghead: :soundoff: :suicide: (<== I sure needed that one a year ago.)

Mourning
02-24-2005, 12:52 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Kstat
02-24-2005, 12:56 PM
Ah, one of my all-time favorite threads.....I can't ever thank UB enough for starting it....

Suaveness
02-24-2005, 02:14 PM
Great thread...

Unclebuck
02-24-2005, 07:57 PM
Ah, one of my all-time favorite threads.....I can't ever thank UB enough for starting it....



Anytime

McClintic Sphere
04-12-2006, 01:09 PM
Pistons are going to win it all. I predict they nearly sweep the Lakers. Probably going to be 4-1.

Miller4ever
04-12-2006, 01:45 PM
wtf? lol

Bball
04-12-2006, 01:53 PM
wow... just wow...
Homerism and optimism runs into the brick wall of objective reality... or is it 'even a bind squirrel finds a nut sometimes'?

It's always interesting to read how some people can be so wrong yet it doesn't even slow them down on their next crusade. I always have to scan these old timey threads to see if I'm one of them. :blush:
Fortunately, I'm usually OK there. :devil:

-Bball

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:05 PM
Except your Tinsley crusade, of course.

:tongue:

Fool
04-12-2006, 02:10 PM
It's always interesting to read how some people can be so wrong yet it doesn't even slow them down on their next crusade. I always have to scan these old timey threads to see if I'm one of them. :blush:
Fortunately, I'm usually OK there. :devil:
-Bball

Dead on balls accurate.


What the Pistons have done to 'prove' they are better than the Pacers? I'd say an argument could be made that Dumars has shown he is willing to make moves to move the team forward and not stagnate. To not stand pat in the face of the competition.

I'd even be willing to say an argument could be made for that being an economic success as well. It keeps the fans energized.

You could argue that dumping Carlisle was silly... OTOH.... how could you not make an argument FOR getting Larry Brown as coach?

Sooooo some of his moves are gambles but they aren't really 'big' gambles. The other thing that -I- like is Dumars not letting mistakes fester. cough *Bender*....cough..... He seems to have a 'cut our losses and move on' policy. IE: If Darko was to hit a wall or regress as an NBA player I bet you don't see him getting an extension or still on the Pistons 5 years from now.

OTOH... the Pacers are on the top of the heap looking back so it affords them the ability to make an argument for standing pat. Sometimes there is a fine line between "If it ain't broke don't fix it' and not making any changes to your winning race car while all your competitors are working their tails off with new designs and pieces with you in their sights.

(BTW: I have only read the first page of this thread so hopefully I am not going over someone else's points/issues).

-Bball

Mourning
04-12-2006, 02:17 PM
Except your Tinsley crusade, of course.

:tongue:

Tinsley crusade?

"Except your Sarunas crusade, offcourse."

:-p



;)

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:21 PM
:blush:

Well, its more of an anti-fanboy crusade.

If we could get around to talking about him as a great role player and leader off the bench (which would mean, of course that he'd have to play like a great role player off the bench and take AJ's and Fred's minutes away), I'd be okay with that.

Really, Stephen Jackson bothers me much more than Saras or Carlisle; let's go back to talking about him. :devil:

Mourning
04-12-2006, 02:25 PM
:blush:

Well, its more of an anti-fanboy crusade.

If we could get around to talking about him as a great role player and leader off the bench (which would mean, of course that he'd have to play like a great role player off the bench and take AJ's and Fred's minutes away), I'd be okay with that.

Really, Stephen Jackson bothers me much more than Saras or Carlisle; let's go back to talking about him. :devil:


:hmm: how about we compromise and say Stephen AND Tinsley? Don't that sound good? :D

Regards,

Mourning :cool:

ChicagoJ
04-12-2006, 02:29 PM
I wouldn't say "good", but I think its very likely to be true.

I saw somebody else say that the Pacers #1 priority should be to get a top-caliber PG.

If you're going to tell me that the Pacers will try to do whatever it takes to pry away a PG that is unquestionably better than Tinsley (when Tinsley is on) or is at least as good as Tinsley (and plays more than 1/2 the time), I'd be okay with it.

But that's probably gonna cost us something we don't want to give up (i.e., Tinsley + Granger + more).

Bball
02-19-2009, 03:21 PM
Except your Tinsley crusade, of course.

:tongue:

Hmmmm...

Cue up the Elton John song:
"I'm Still Standing"

:D

ChicagoJ
02-19-2009, 03:38 PM
You win.

:giveup: