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XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 09:48 AM
I have to bring this into call for this entire forum...supporting Ron Artest is supporting the franchise of the Indiana Pacers.

Too many people on here are so quick to bash Ron Artest and want to get rid of him for nothing!

The fact of the matter is that Ron Artest is a vital piece of our team to win a championship and what happened on 11/19 was unfortunate but we must look at the mitigating factors and realize that suspending him for the season was clearly overboard and in no way can be justified.

Supporting Ron Artest is supporting Jermaine O'Neal, supporting Stephen Jackson, and supporting rest of the Pacers. The reason many do not like Ron Artest on here is because of his so called "Thugish" image; and I have heard some "Pacer fans" on here say the same thing of Stephen Jackson.

Some of you Pacer fans have to realize that Ron Ron is not responsible for the behavior of others such as J.O. and Stephen but Stephen and J.O. were out there to defend their pride and their family members when the unfortunate incident took place on 11/19. I don't see enough Pacer fans on here putting blame on Ben Wallace for inciting this....Palace security....Palace organization...the Referees for not controlling the game and kicking out Ben Wallace immediatly...the Auburn Hills Police...and most importantly the Detroit Pissertons fans who not only threw the cup at Ron Artest to start the chaos but for escalating it by throwing more cups at Ron in the crowd and showing us the classless type of people they are by behaving the way they did by drenching our team with alcohol, a thrown chair, and by going on the court.

You have to understand, our team got disrespected and I guarantee you every Indiana Pacer supports Ron Artest and hates Detroit Pistons fans and will let it be known next time we beat them in Detroit. How come more Pacer fans are not outraged after our players got disrespected as human beings on 11/19, look what happened in the tunnel...but then you are so quick to Ron Artest because he is the quickest and easiest scapegoat possible....David Stern wanted to set Ron as an "example" and I find the suspensions can not even be justified even if you want to suspend him overboard. A 50 game suspension would have sent a very strong statement...the season long suspension took aim at a Pacer championship.

With a Ron Artest...no one in the NBA can stop us from winning a title...we would clearly be favorites. Ron Artest elevates his game to a whole different level each year which is scary. Ron will score 25/game on you while shooting 90% free-throws and dominate both the inside/outside part of the offensive game while dominating his opponent defensively which in turns changes the whole game around. Ron is one of the top 5-10 players in the NBA and he is so young, and he will only continue to improve!!! He is not even at his peak...it is scary how good Ron Ron is and how much better he will get...

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 09:51 AM
One more thing, this incident on 11/19 will bring our team closer together as a unit. Someone had posted that this incident would not bring our players closer, but I disagree. Our young players had time to develop and will get a chance to shine, and our whole organization will be closer as a unit; especially Ronnie.

In the past years, all I had hoped for was one Pacer championship so we could call ourselves NBA Champions. With Ron Artest and J.O. and rest of our great players, I truly believe the Pacers can win several championships and go down as history as one of the greatest NBA teams...this team is just so good with Ron and it really is scary how much better we can get.

Alabama-Redneck
01-03-2005, 09:52 AM
I agree.


:cool:

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 10:18 AM
bump, other people need to realize the importance of the message of supporting Ron Artest=supporting Pacers. Not supporting Ron = not supporting the Pacers franchise and organization.

efx
01-03-2005, 10:32 AM
How about you just speak for yourself?
I'm so sick and tired of people setting up rules for others in regards to how to "support" their team.

I'm a Pacers fan through and through. I don't put the entire blame on either side. I agree with some things you said and I disagree with others. But guess what? It doesn't make me any less of a fan and you have no business tell me or anyone else otherwise.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 10:37 AM
There are limits to go by....but if you want to support the Pacers franchise, we Pacer fans must be united, not divided!

One thing everyone should realize, Ron Artest is a vital key component of us being a dominant team year in and year out and winning NBA Titles.

PacerCrazy
01-03-2005, 10:38 AM
Baron Davis and Jim Jackson would be more then nothing.

efx
01-03-2005, 10:40 AM
Call my selfish, but I enjoy the Pacers for my own pleasure. It's not a community thing to me at all.

I for one am fully aware of Ron's abilities as a player but I'm not blind to his outbursts of stupidity either.

Doesn't make me any less of a fan. Not one iota.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 10:46 AM
Baron Davis and Jim Jackson would be more then nothing.

They are no way players near Ronnie...but we would not get them for Ronnie alone!!! We'd have to give up Jamaal and someone else.. NOT WORTH IT!

recap
01-03-2005, 11:23 AM
Sasson,
Would you trade Artest if it meant the difference between us winning and losing the championship this year?

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:48 AM
Sasson,
Would you trade Artest if it meant the difference between us winning and losing the championship this year?

Recap, unfortunately it's not as simple as a Yes or No answer.

My name is spelled Sassan* btw.

Now to answer your question. I believe when Stephen Jackson comes back, our team can still compete for an NBA Championship. Whether or not we win it all or not, I do not believe there is anyone we can add to this team other than Ron Artest to make it better.

This might be Reggie's last year....I understand how important it is to win a championship for him. What some people are not considering is there is still a chance Ron will come back by the end of the season.

This team has a lot of talent, so I feel even if Ron is gone for the season; he is going to learn a lot from this and come back next year better than ever. I do not see why we should trade Ron and Tinz man Baron Davis etc....I think those trades will not make our team better in the short term or the long term.

In the past, I felt all I wanted was one Pacer championship. I feel with Ron, he elevates his game every season and he can be one of the top 3 players in the NBA eventually....he is that good. Most of the people feel Ron should be gone are those who think he is a "thug" and do not support the Pacers franchise in supporting the 3 who got suspended: Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson, and Jermaine O'Neal. Ron Artest is still a Pacer, and I believe he will be back as a Pacer either by the end of the year or next season.

I just do not find one single player which we can replace Ron Artest with without hurting our team. Ron Artest is an amazing player who can keep bringing titles in the future....and as I said, this team still has a shot to make the NBA Finals without Ron Artest because we are a good team. With Ron, our team becomes extremely Elite and I believe the favorites for years to come.

JOneal7
01-03-2005, 12:35 PM
I agree...people are so quick to want to dump ron...thinking that it was his fault. Or that it was just so bound to happen. Had it been ANY other player...be it Tmac,Kobe,KG..would they not have done the same thing? and if it was someone like KG I bet you he wouldn't have gotten more than 5-8 games.

FREE ARTEST

Hicks
01-03-2005, 12:50 PM
How about you just speak for yourself?
I'm so sick and tired of people setting up rules for others in regards to how to "support" their team.

I'm a Pacers fan through and through. I don't put the entire blame on either side. I agree with some things you said and I disagree with others. But guess what? It doesn't make me any less of a fan and you have no business tell me or anyone else otherwise.
Exactly. Where does anyone get off thinking they can tell others how they are or are not a fan? They don't.

JOneal7
01-03-2005, 01:12 PM
hicks YOU are not a fan ;)
lol

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 01:16 PM
This is insane, why did I read this.

Reggie4Three
01-03-2005, 01:32 PM
Ron didn't cost the Pacers a shot at a championship last year any more than any other player.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 02:05 PM
While I wont argue there is star treatment, we will never know how any of those guys would have reacted. You can tell untill you have been in that situation.

Also, have any of those guys:

Breaking the camera
Not getting along with teammates
suspended by Thomas one game
Suspended by league many games for flagerant fouls
Migrines during playoffs
Refuses to listen to coach's called plays
refuses to get on team plane from miami
asks for a month off to work on CD (Priorities...?)


Keep in mind I left the brawl off. So I mean we can all ***** and wine, but you reep what you sew. Once you get a bad reputation in life, it is really hard to get rid of it, if you ever do. This is a lesson Ronnie had to learn the hard way, if he has learned it yet (I wont even ursue this any further, eveyone already knows how I feel about this topic)

What happened in the past, is what happened in the past...it is not relevant to Ron.

Ron has improved his behavior a lot in the last couple of years and that must be looked at too.

As JOONEAL7 said, most NBA Players would have reacted the same way as Ron....unfortunately Ron was put in that position and attacked by animal Piston fans...what can I say? Ron is an amazing person who will be back in a Pacer uniform.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 02:18 PM
Ok, my last comment on this

Like I said, what JO7 said may be true, but when cant say what any one def. would have done, cause we just dont plain know

As for Ron costing us a title, his falgrent foul in game 6 certainly didnt help, along with his forced 3 pointer. He lost his composure, so yes, IMO he cost us that game.

And I may only have a few years in the workforce, but you are kidding if you think that what happens in the past is not relevant to a person.

People make judgements based on your past.

The leage office wil be harsher on him than they would any one else who commits the same crime. Hell, we have already seen that to a point wiht precious punishments.

and I wont even start on the refs and how they would be watching his every move.

So wether it is Ron Artest or joe schmoe, your past actions have a HUGE impact on your future.

It might not be fair, but thats life, wether you are a NBA player or a US Postal employee

As I said before, several NBA Players have come out saying they would have the same thing, including Shaq.

In Game 6, that was not a flagrant foul. It was a flop by Rip when the possession before Rip hit him much harder. What can Ron do, he's just so strong.

The past should not matter in this case. What happened on 11/19 and what happened in the previous incidents do not correlate together. What happened on 11/19 was an isolated incident in which Ron got attacked, he did not start it...He got attacked TWICE. Ron should have been suspended, but if anyone says for the season it is ridiculus.

Are you a Pacer fan? Why are you defending David Stern the piece of trash who has ruined the Pacers so many times over?

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 02:22 PM
Please stop questioning if people are "real" Pacer fans just because they don't agree with you, it is incredibly annoying.

Since86
01-03-2005, 02:25 PM
As for Ron costing us a title, his falgrent foul in game 6 certainly didnt help, along with his forced 3 pointer. He lost his composure, so yes, IMO he cost us that game.

So what happened in game 2? You can't blame a game on one player. If you follow your logic, Reggie lost game 2 by slowing down and not dunking. It's just plain dumb to say two things cost an entire game, and an entire series. JO might be blamed because he got hurt, what was he thinking going for a rebound. :rolleyes: It's not a one on one game, its five on five. The team loses, not a player.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 02:33 PM
Well that one player has done a pretty good job of wrecking this team's season.

Los Angeles
01-03-2005, 02:38 PM
He did a good job of wrecking 02-03 as well.

I liked him last year, but then the ECF refusing to get on the plane thing.

Loyalty to the pacers always.

Loyalty to the players when they deserve it.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 02:41 PM
Not to mention his stunt before 11/19, telling Rick his body "was hurting" and he planned to retire immediately (don't believe that CD story). Which destroyed any notion of the old "he wants to win so bad" argument. Think that stunt settled well with JO and the rest of the team? Not at all. JO kicked him out of the lockerroom when he tried to come in after that, and again the team plane on their way back to Indy (this was our road game vs Minnesota).

He's been a problem over 3 seasons in at least 3 different ways now. Flagrants and T's, breaking things (be it the drink cart near the bench, banging the scorers table, breaking pictures in the lockerroom, or cameras), the "migraines", the not coming w/ the team on the plane during the playoffs, at least one instance of faking injury to not play because he was mad at the coach (he did early last year, and it looked like he did the first game this year; both he "miraculously" felt better at tipoff and played; and I've read he did so in Chicago before), the 'retirement', the brawl. It all adds up, and then some.

Reggie4Three
01-03-2005, 02:56 PM
I can't understand how anyone pins the ECF loss on Artest. His "flagrant" foul didn't help, but it didn't cost us the series. I felt Game 6 slipping long before that happened. We can speculate what would've happened if this or that had or hadn't happened, but it's just speculation. To pin that loss on any one player or play just isn't logical.

Since86
01-03-2005, 02:58 PM
That is all true, you need five guys to win a game.

and for the record, yes Reggie did lose game two. He made a bad decision, IMO.

JO has no control over getting hurt.

I have seen many cases where a player can lose a game for a team, and Ron helped the Pacers lose that game. He wasnt the only one who had a bad game, but his bad shot selection (esp in the 4th quarter) and his STUPID STUPID untimely flagrent foul helped us lose that game

If other players knock down more shots in the first half, the pacers aren't in the situation where a flagrant hurts them. It's still about who has the most points on the board.

Yes, there are plays that turn momentum. But its up to the TEAM to get back into the game. After the call, they still had time to make stands, get points and win. ONE PLAY DOESN"T LOSE A GAME.

indygeezer
01-03-2005, 03:10 PM
I haven't called for Ron's trade, but I have said I think the team has decided to do so. I haven't called for SJax trade, but I said I wouldn't be upset if they decided to do so (that can also be read that I won't be uspest if they keep him, but you didn't bother to read it any other way).
I used to be one of Ron's biggest supporters until last year's PO's...he cinched it, not me.

Let me spell this out for you Sassan because I've said it sooooo many times it's rediculous.

I SUPPORT THE PACERS NOT ANY ONE PLAYER. No player is more important that the team IMO. I do not kiss the backsides of any player, I support the Pacers TEAM. When a player's actions put the team at peril then something must be done to correct the situation. If that means trading them then so be it. It is all about the TEAM. It is also about being PROUD of the team that represents my home. I was never MORE proud than when they showed their metal and won those 3 games immediately after the fight. They played with courage and heart. I want the P's to win a championship yes, more than you can imagine, but as Larry Brown would say, winning it the "right" way.

In the past I have bashed Ron when he deserved it and praised him when he deserved THAT. I have done the same with JO, Reggie, and anyone else I felt deserved it. I will continue to do so. You, nor anyone else has any right to tell me how to support my team. I've been supporting them since the day it was announced they were being formed, and no over-inflated ego is going to tell me how to do otherwise.

Los Angeles
01-03-2005, 03:16 PM
Yes - it's the TEAM that wins or loses. And sometimes moving a player will improve your TEAM. As far as the ECF last year goes - It was the off-the-court stuff that really ruined the team chemistry. After the truth filtered out, I was shocked they even went 6 games.

I've just felt a sea change in my own opinions. I've been on the fence for too long. I now say dump him. Dump him as fast as you can. For the team, for the fans, for Ron himself who needs a fresh start more than anyone in memory - DUMP HIM - for anyone or anything. DUMP HIM so that we can talk about something else. He isn't even playing and he's still topic #1.

It's time to dump him and move on.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 04:09 PM
See, I try to have a decent conversation and you get all defensive.

Game 6 might not have been a flagrent, but Rip flopped and I dont want to hear it. Reggie has victimized many players, and Ron got played. It cost us the game and posibly the series.

Players can say what they want, that doesnt make it true.

Oh, and for the fan, he threw a cup, so what? Ronnie shouldnt have gone into the crowd. PERIOD. And no, the season was to short of a punishment if you ask me. He should have been banned from the game for life. Yes that is harsh, but so is a brawl where some one could have been seriously hurt, ranging from fans to players.

As for me being a Pacers fan, look at my SN. Yeah, no **** sherlock, im a Pacers fan in Virginia. As for stern, I dont like his decision, but he had to make a strong statement and tell palyers taht behavior wasnt acceptable at all. Apparently he got that message across.

BTW, dont bothe responding. Ill type out your response for you

"You are not a real fan. Ronnie was defending himself and you dont know what its life. HIs past doesnt matter. Stern is trash and he is out to get Ron-Ron"

I'll respond.

What kind of Pacer fan says the suspension was not long enough??? What the hell is that?

You have the right to have an opinion but as shown on a poll taken here, PACER fans are against the suspensions, especially Ronnie Artest. How in the world can you justify a season long suspension and also saying he should have gotten worst.....you are against the Pacers organization by making comments like that and you should look yourself in the mirror before calling yourself a Pacer fan...no Pacer fan or Pacer players would agree with your sentiment.

One more thing I have to add. I do not think anyone is saying Ron should not have gone in the crowd, but it is not simple as that. He should have been suspended but not for the whole season! THe suspension completely put the blame on Ron and the Pacers rather than the cowardly fans and the Detroit arena.....along Ben Wallace. Ben should have gotten a much harsher suspension, but got the David Stern favoritism treatment. Another thing, a lot of NBA players would have done the same thing as Ron; i'm sorry but it is not everyday in the heat of a big rivalry game does someone get a cup thrown at his face.... :rolleyes:

Look at the reasons why Ron did it, to defend his honor and character but it was a split second decision on a guy who has already suffered a lot and does not think like you or me.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 04:14 PM
See, stop blaming Ron Artest.

Ron Artest didn't ruin anyone's season....
Many of us can and will because he ****ed up. Ron was the only player to run into the stands without having a player to go up there to get in the first place; his error was the worst judgement of the night. Throwing a beer cup at a player doesn't guarantee a brawl nearly as much as an opposing player charging into a crowd of people does, and that's what he did. The Pacers' consequences stemmed mainly from his actions. Yes also from JO and Jack, but Ron first and foremost. JO and Jack don't do what they do unless Ron does what he does first. That one bone-headed mistake was the most responsible for costing us 73 regular season games without one of our best players, 30 without two of them, and 15 without 3 of them, and the playoffs without one.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 04:24 PM
YAWN.

How old are you? Seriously. SO now I dont agree with you and Im not a real Pacers fan.

and yes, Ron got what he deserved, even though the Pacers wont say it publicly (they never would) if you knew the team I wuld be willing to bet while some players missed him you would find some players that felt like he got what he deserved.

But that cant be right either, can it, cause I am not agreeing with you

Actually, I do know a Pacer player and some other personel so I do know what the Pacers organization and players feel...and it truly is not in your sentiment.

I care more about the Pacers team than anyone in the world, but the fact of the matter is Ron Artest is a key component of our team and it will be very difficult to be the dominant team we can be with Ron Artest. I love Ronnie so much because of his importance to this team.

As I said it before, I will say it again, I am not going to elaborate on this; but trust me, Ron Artest will play in a Pacer uniform again and Pacer fans will embrace him and continue to do today. VAPACERFAN and all those anti-Ron Artest "thug" fans can continue to hate, but whether Pacers win the finals this year or not, Ron elevates the Pacers and makes them a real top Elite team in this league.

One more thing, all those "behavior" problems Ron had in the past...it's in the past. Do you understand Ronnie has grown a lot because of those problems and the event on 11/19 had nothing to do with those. The incidents before, Ron never got attacked before. On 11/19, Ron got attacked by both Ben Wallace and the thugish Pacer fans. The Pacer players support Ronnie 110% and this incident has made us closer as a team....as I said before, a lot of NBA Players would have acted the same way as Ron because Ron got attacked first, and we know he has some problems he has been trying to work out but being attacked by Ben Wallace and then a stupid fan sure did not help it....when he got hit by a cup he just could not control himself and he did deserve a punishment but the blame should have gone all around the board, not just on Ronnie. But in no way does he deserve a season long suspension and for anyone to say a season long suspension is justified has to consider their loyalty to the Pacers and no top Pacer brass feel this way and none of the Pacer players do either. Let's look at Precedent, Vernon Maxwell punched a fan and got 10 games for someone taunting at him. Ron got 72 games for holding a fan down after having a cup thrown at him at the same arena he had coins thrown at him before! Suspending him for the season rewards the thugish Detroit fans and the Detroit team when they should have been penalized as well!!!!

Since86
01-03-2005, 04:25 PM
No, but we can blame him for his actions which cost him to be suspended for the season which did help ruin the Pacers season

Yeah, didn't you see the trophy presentation to the Spurs last Nov. 23rd? I mean who honestly thinks that the pacers can make the playoffs, let alone win a series. Just write this whole season off for them.


Excuse my sarcasm.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 04:28 PM
Many of us can and will because he ****ed up. Ron was the only player to run into the stands without having a player to go up there to get in the first place; his error was the worst judgement of the night. Throwing a beer cup at a player doesn't guarantee a brawl nearly as much as an opposing player charging into a crowd of people does, and that's what he did. The Pacers' consequences stemmed mainly from his actions. Yes also from JO and Jack, but Ron first and foremost. JO and Jack don't do what they do unless Ron does what he does first. That one bone-headed mistake was the most responsible for costing us 73 regular season games without one of our best players, 30 without two of them, and 15 without 3 of them, and the playoffs without one.

I love your logic on "if Ron did not go up there the brawl wouldn't have happened and J.O. and S. JAX would not have gotten suspended...."

None of this would have happened if the Referees controlled the game and did not let it get out of control...none of this would have happened if Ben Wallace did not hit Ron Artest for no reason when Ron did not even foul him that hard...none of this would have happened if Ben Wallace did not keep cussing at Ron and throwing a towel on him...none of this would have happened if the referee would have immediatly kicked Ben Wallace out of the game....none of this would have happened if the Detroit security or police were near the fans where Ron Artest was....none of this would have happened if....

come on give me a break! Ron is not responsible for the actions of others. What Ron and the Pacers did on 11/19 was make me proud...it made me proud the Pacers stood together as teammates and brothers and defended each other...they showed the world that they are men. Unfortunately, it happened....but David Stern should have acted with precedent and failed to do so. Also......Artest would not have been suspended this long if the game was not shown on ESPN...

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 04:45 PM
As I said in my previous point, I am not going to elaborate.

It is none of your business on what I may know or I may not.

It is not about me being a "ron lover", it's about me loving the Pacers and understanding without Ron we do not have as good as a chance as doing well with Ron. Ron is going to come back stronger than ever and will make sure he will not do anything like what he did (it did cost him 5 million dollars). I am not here talking about rumors, I am talking about reality which you seem to lack. Reality is, 90% of Pacer fans do not share your sentiment that the "suspensions were light or just"...and surely no one in the Pacers organization does. David Stern used Ron as a scapegoat and Stern is nothing but a piece of trash who has ruined the Pacers organization over and over throughout the years because of the Pacers "small-market" status.

Do you really think Shaq or Kobe would have gotten 72 games?!??!

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 04:46 PM
I try to make a point of staying out of Sassooon's threads, but I've got two points to make.

1) Bravo to Geezer for his post.

Although I'll admit that Ron is a helluva player, I can't figure out why anyone that is a Pacers fan, first and foremost, would want that clown on our team.

Hey, for the fun of it, lets make two lists. All of the boneheaded and destructive things that any Pacers player has ever done. And Ron's list. Really, once you get past Carlos Rogers and his strange disappearance, and I guess you could even include Kenny Williams thinking he didn't have to pay his cellphone bill or when Chuck Person stuffed Conrad Brunner into a trashcan over at NIFS even though I think that actually helped make that particular team's "bond" tighter, the "rest of the team" list isn't all that long, at least not compared to Ron's list. He's an unprecedented trouble-maker on a team that has always taken pride in not having trouble-makers. Hey, there's a reason John Williamson and Adrian Dantley didn't stay in Indianapolis very long...

2) Second, I don't like to blame losses on one player or a single play, and I generally don't like to attribute wins to a single player. It *is* a team game. And, of course, its easy to see when a single player really elevates his game and carries a team to victory (like JO did in NJ the other night). So should Ron be blamed for the Pacers' fourth quarter meltdown in Game #6? I say yes, but you guys haven't even addressed the real reason why. During the fourth quarter, Jim Gray reported that Rick Carlisle was on the sidelines, going berzerk, yelling at the team to give the ball to JO in the post. What did Ron do. First, he tried to dunk over four Pistons (perhaps they should've been called for Illegal D?) including his good, personal friend and defensive standout, shotblocker extraordinaire Ben Wallace. *Then* he took the forty-footer with something like 16 seconds still on the shotclock. What did he do then, that's worthy of saying, "Ron cost the team the game." - he became selfish, broke away from the gameplan, tried to play one-on-five.

Lookee there, I've blamed Ron and I haven't even mentioned the play/ flop? at the other end of the court.

And I don't want to hear that "JO was hurt/ struggling/ etc." Rick wanted JO to get the ball. If he does, and he doesn't deliver... well I can live with that. JO *is/was* the Pacers best player, he's the go-to guy, he's the guy Rick wanted to depend on the fourth quarter of an elimination game. Ron's selfishness denied the rest of his teammates an opportunity to prove that Rick and JO could lead this team to The Finals. Yes there were injuries, but everybody has injuries in the playoffs. Because of the injuries, I don't think we could've won Game #7 but I believe we should've won Game #6.



And for the record, let me apologize for spending this much time in this thread.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 04:48 PM
It's starting to come to the point that Ron Artest is as important to winning to this team as J.O. is...and I truly believe that will happen next season. Ron is just too good of a player and next year will be an MVP Candidate.

Since86
01-03-2005, 04:50 PM
I never said we couldnt make the playoffs. Hell, I hope we do. but IMO we were a championship team on and before 11/19 and as it stands we will be lucky to get to the finals.

So no, I never said anything about writing the season off, but yes, I do think certain player(s) action cost us a chance at winning a title.

Oh, and in case you didnt know, when you are suspended for the season, you cant play at all, not even in the playoffs, so yes, that not only hurts yourself but you also hurt your time

FYI, I know that he can't play in the playoffs. Where did I say he could?

So the pacers can make the playoffs, but the season is ruined? So what do they need to accomplish to make the season worth something? Even with Artest, the rings weren't being sized for the pacers.

I'm not questioning the part about his suspensions, nor the part about being a "good" fan. It's just plain dumb to say one player lost an entire series, and ruined an entire season. The east is still weak. It's not even close to impossible for the pacers to make it to the finals in the east.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 04:58 PM
I love your logic on "if Ron did not go up there the brawl wouldn't have happened and J.O. and S. JAX would not have gotten suspended...."

None of this would have happened if the Referees controlled the game and did not let it get out of control...none of this would have happened if Ben Wallace did not hit Ron Artest for no reason when Ron did not even foul him that hard...none of this would have happened if Ben Wallace did not keep cussing at Ron and throwing a towel on him...none of this would have happened if the referee would have immediatly kicked Ben Wallace out of the game....none of this would have happened if the Detroit security or police were near the fans where Ron Artest was....none of this would have happened if....
They all deserve blame for their actions in leading to this mess. All of them. Including Ron Artest, who did one of the worst parts in leading to it. Only running into the stands creates the mob, not Ben being an idiot earlier, or the refs being incompetent.


What Ron and the Pacers did on 11/19 was make me proud...it made me proud the Pacers stood together as teammates and brothers and defended each other...they showed the world that they are men.
You have a strange sense of pride.


Unfortunately, it happened....
You're proud of what they did, but think it's unfortunate they did it?

Since86
01-03-2005, 05:06 PM
Ok, Im really confused.

I was refering to last season when I said he cost us game 6. Now that is debatable, but thats my opinion. I could have been more thurough, but Jay basically summed up what i had to say.

As for this year, while the rungs werent bein measured for the Pacers, it was pretty damn close. We beat the Pistons by 17 on there court.

I can tell you are new here, cause what makes a season a success for me is a championship. I love all the regular season awards and I love the playoffs, but IMO a success is winning a ring. Now you have to change taht gauge (sp) based on your team, but with this team I felt a success would be a NBA championship.

Like I said, I dont think this season is a wash, but I dont think we are going to have a harder time without Artest, better yet the games we had to go without JO and S-Jax

Either you run your company, or have your own business, or youre not a successful worker then huh? A lot better teams than this one have lost in the finals, i.e. last year.

Yes, the ultimate goal is the ring. But if you measure success by trophys than youre going to be disappointed 90% of the time by all of your teams.

Jay made good points, but if you win game 2 theres a game 7. The season never rests on one game. You can always go back and find a moment where someone screwed up and it hurt a lot. Yes, I'll agree that RA screwed up the most, but it's still a team effort. If he was playing that badly in RCs eyes, don't you think he would of pulled him. Obviously he thought he would do better than someone sitting on the bench. So JO gets the ball, and misses the shot. Do you blame it on him? Where do the excuses stop? They (the pacers) didn't get it done. Thats all that matters.

Excuses are like a$$holes. Everyone has one, and all of em stink.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 05:06 PM
Hicks,

I'm not proud it happened, but I am proud how the Pacers defended each other from the mob. As Stephen Jackson said, "We Ride Together Baby"....and even J.O. proved that notion.

Since86
01-03-2005, 05:16 PM
I always go after these issues. A few years ago in a regional game, I went for a dunk. Got fouled and missed because of it. I was a 80%+ FT shooter, so I was really pissed when I missed both FTs. I played horrible there on out, and we lost by 3.

Later I find out that I'm being blamed for losing by some seniors, and even my coach. From a recent players stand point, nothing feels as bad as being blamed entirely for a lose, especially in a playoff format.

On another note: I don't agree with if you don't support ron, you don't support the team. Personally I like Ron, but you don't always have to agree with their actions.

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 05:19 PM
Jay made good points, but if you win game 2 theres a game 7. The season never rests on one game. You can always go back and find a moment where someone screwed up and it hurt a lot. Yes, I'll agree that RA screwed up the most, but it's still a team effort. If he was playing that badly in RCs eyes, don't you think he would of pulled him. Obviously he thought he would do better than someone sitting on the bench. So JO gets the ball, and misses the shot. Do you blame it on him? Where do the excuses stop? They (the pacers) didn't get it done. Thats all that matters.

Excuses are like a$$holes. Everyone has one, and all of em stink.

I understand the points you are making...

The best analagoy I can think of is the 1996 playoffs. Game 5. Reggie, wearing goggles. We're down by a point or two in the last minute, Reggie's been ice-cold and Rik is still in his prime as a post player. Brown calls for Rik to get the ball in the post. Jackson flat-out misses him with two consecutive passes. Was Rik held? From Aisle 20, I thought so on the first pass. But the second pass just sails out of bounds. So do you blame Larry for trying to make it a two-man game with Jackson and Smits when neither appeared ready 'for prime time' instead of tried-and-true Reggie? Do you blame Jackson for missing with the passes, and trade him to Denver for Jalen Rose before the dust settles? Do you blame Rik for not working hard enough to break free and get to the pass? I don't know what the answer is. There are lots of questions, and if I knew the answer I'd be a GM in the league.

BTW, what does "Since86" mean?

Signed,

Chuck Person's biggest fan.

PS - as for whether Rick should've pulled Ron - I'm not sure Rick realized the
"rebellion" was deliberate until it was too late. And its not like Al was playing well in that series. I think he was depending on Ron sticking to the gameplan.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 05:20 PM
I always go after these issues. A few years ago in a regional game, I went for a dunk. Got fouled and missed because of it. I was a 80%+ FT shooter, so I was really pissed when I missed both FTs. I played horrible there on out, and we lost by 3.

Later I find out that I'm being blamed for losing by some seniors, and even my coach. From a recent players stand point, nothing feels as bad as being blamed entirely for a lose, especially in a playoff format.

On another note: I don't agree with if you don't support ron, you don't support the team. Personally I like Ron, but you don't always have to agree with their actions.

I don't agree with his actions, I understand it. He should have been suspended, but not for 72 games. Not supporting Ron is not supporting the Pacers brass and franchise at this point. Case closed.

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 05:22 PM
Case closed.

I'm waiting for him to say, "Simple as That". Perhaps Sassooooon and NewYawk are related?

:o

canyoufeelit
01-03-2005, 05:23 PM
Ron is currently not a member of this team, he is suspended for a stupid reaction to a stupid act by a fan. His conduct over the past 3 seasons has been for the most part detrimental to the Pacers. The collapse of 02, his selfish and stupid play in the ECF last year, the retarded CD promotion, and 73 game suspension all point to the fact that this guy needs a change of scenery, the sooner the better.

Since86
01-03-2005, 05:27 PM
In the heat of the moment, I yell. (I'm a very competitive person that yells a lot for some reason.) But I'm sure Jackson did a lot of good things earlier in the game. For me, they shouldn't have been in that situation, or theyre lucky to be in that situation. Depending on if they are better or not. I loved to watch tape, break down what should and shouldn't of happened, so I'm looking at that situation from a now point of view. At the time, I say he's an idiot that should of done better. It's been a long time since I've blamed one person for a loss.

Since86? Been a pacer/basketball fan since '86, just happens to be my birth year too.

Since86
01-03-2005, 05:29 PM
that this guy needs a change of scenery, the sooner the better.

So moving makes things all better? He just needs to grow up, not move. The question is, are the Pacers going to be apart of his growth, or are they going to let another team try to help him?

Los Angeles
01-03-2005, 05:37 PM
So moving makes things all better? He just needs to grow up, not move. The question is, are the Pacers going to be apart of his growth, or are they going to let another team try to help him?
Here's all you need to know: you're 18 and you're telling a 26 year old professional athlete to "grow up". ;)

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 05:38 PM
I don't agree with his actions, I understand it. He should have been suspended, but not for 72 games. Not supporting Ron is not supporting the Pacers brass and franchise at this point. Case closed.


Yes, you are right. He should have been suspended for 73.

Since86
01-03-2005, 05:43 PM
Here's all you need to know: you're 18 and you're telling a 26 year old professional athlete to "grow up". ;)


Well I guess I missed the class in high school where it said the older you are, the more mature you get. :rolleyes:

I think you've proved my point when you start referring to someones age. I know I wouldn't of asked off to promote my groups cd sales, so yes in that regard I am more mature.

Next comment by someone who thinks they're better because they're older?

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 05:45 PM
I thought LA's point was that you, at age 18, seemed to have a better handle on maturity than a 26 y/o so-called adult. In other words, that's the irony here.


EDIT - and even if I'm wrong, I like my interpretation better anyway.

Since86
01-03-2005, 05:50 PM
I took it as him saying that I needed to know my place as an 18y/o. Now that you've both said that, I can see the other side.

How about a confirmation either way Los?

I'm getting ready to leave work, so I'll get it out of the way right now if I was wrong. "I took your post the wrong way, and I apologize."

Los Angeles
01-03-2005, 06:08 PM
WHOA!!!!

Yeah - Somewhere between Jay's and VA's versions are where I was going - but I was just givin a little ribbing, too.

No, you don't need to know your place. Your place is here, as a Pacer fan, and I certainly respect your opinions. My comment was partly a recognition of your handle "Since86" and partly a way to call you out for wanting to keep Ron BUT ALSO saying he needs to grow up. The fact that you've been alive 8 years less than Ron, but see his lack of maturity says volumes about this topic. If you were 3x champion Larry Bird, would you put up with a 26 year old all star who acts like he's in middle school? No way.

Anyway, didn't mean to insult you, in fact I meant quite the opposite. :)

EDIT FOR CLARITY: By opposite, I mean a compliment to you, and a ribbing/insult/whatever to Ron. *carry on*

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 08:16 PM
bump, I want this poll to be taken.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 08:53 PM
6-2 now, in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 09:16 PM
Well I guess I missed the class in high school where it said the older you are, the more mature you get. :rolleyes:
It's a half-truth, but you'd be surprised as you start your 20s.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 09:17 PM
I'm not going to vote on this poll, the answers are too extreme. Either I have to say Stern is out to "get" Indiana Pacers, or I call Ron a thug. No thank you.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 09:24 PM
Well vote only if you want to. All i'm doing is getting the sentiment of the forum.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 09:26 PM
Well Sassan, I think it's the extreme answers that are keeping too many people from voting. Maybe trying one with more answers that cover the spread more, so to speak, might get more response. :)

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 09:30 PM
Thanks for your input Hicks. If I act inappropriately, please p.m. me and I will figure out my problems but otherwise I like the poll as it is....you said no Pacer fans call Ron a thug...well 3 of them already have.

DisplacedKnick
01-03-2005, 09:37 PM
I thought LA's point was that you, at age 18, seemed to have a better handle on maturity than a 26 y/o so-called adult. In other words, that's the irony here.


EDIT - and even if I'm wrong, I like my interpretation better anyway.

My take as well - LA was pointing out the irony of the situation, not taking a dig at you. If anything, it was a dig at Ron.

As for the poll - what is this - the 4th or 5th asking about the suspensions?

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 09:55 PM
9-4 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers...not everyone on this board hate Ron as you anti-Ron haters may want people who visit this board to think.

Hicks
01-03-2005, 10:04 PM
No one here hates Ron.

Well, maybe Jay ;) But seriously no one HATES him. And I still want to know who calls him a thug.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 10:38 PM
Hicks,

shaggs or whatever his name is has called him a thug alongside Stephen Jackson, and so has other Pacer fans on and off. I am @ work so I type fast on here and talk to clients and don't have time to look it up but I surely will later.

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 11:00 PM
9-4 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers...not everyone on this board hate Ron as you anti-Ron haters may want people who visit this board to think.
If anything, I would think Ron is more popular on this message board than he is anywhere else. I know plenty of long-time Pacers fans that, to my knowledge, don't post here or anywhere else, that also can't wait for the Pacers to sever thier ties with him so they can resume winning.

Not everybody that is ready to put his butt on the next train out of town cares about whether or not he's a "thug". We mostly just don't like watching him single-handedly destroy the team we love. I don't know about "hate" - that's a pretty strong word and I don't know him personally... Its not like I want to kill him or even kick him out of the league, I just don't want him to ever set foot in the Pacers lockerroom again.

That's the irony here... I've been cheering for this team since before you were born, but you *of all people* think you've got the right to tell people what they have to think to be a fan and if anyone disagrees with you then "he's not a fan."

:bs:

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:02 PM
If anything, I would think Ron is more popular on this message board than he is anywhere else. I know plenty of long-time Pacers fans that, to my knowledge, don't post here or anywhere else, that also can't wait for the Pacers to sever thier ties with him so they can resume winning.

Not everybody that is ready to put his butt on the next train out of town cares about whether or not he's a "thug". We mostly just don't like watching him single-handedly destroy the team we love. I don't know about "hate" - that's a pretty strong word and I don't know him personally... Its not like I want to kill him or even kick him out of the league, I just don't want him to ever set foot in the Pacers lockerroom again.

That's the irony here... I've been cheering for this team since before you were born, but you *of all people* think you've got the right to tell people what they have to think to be a fan and if anyone disagrees with you then "he's not a fan."

:bs:

Really Jay???? How about all those Ron Artest jerseys I see throughout the arena along with our players supporting Ron 100%!

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:05 PM
One more thing Jay,

I live in Southern California and even from Laker fans down here....they know the suspension is overboard and blame must be shared...I have seen too much anti-Ron and anti-Pacer sentiment on here that I have not seen anywhere else...so I think Ron is much more popular outside of these boards.

The younger Pacer fans all love Ron Artest...maybe a few older conservative fans don't....but Ron's jerseys sell out quick...he is right there along J.O. as a popular Pacer.

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 11:18 PM
Really Jay???? How about all those Ron Artest jerseys I see throughout the arena along with our players supporting Ron 100%!
You're right. Since some people are wearing Ron Artest jerseys he must be the only reason anybody should support the Pacers.

Forgive me Sassoooooon, I'm an unworthy Pacers fan.

Therefore:

I apologize sincerely for trying to be a "smart" fan, to analyze the games and the players, pointing out their strengths and admitting thier weaknesses, and for ever having a doubt any of the players that they've ever put on thier roster.

I'm also sorry to Erick Strickland for calling him the worst PG to ever put on a basketball uniform. And I'm sorry to Ron Mercer for calling him a streaky ballhog. And I'm sorry to George McCloud for calling him "the worst lottery pick of all time" and I'm sorry to Bender for ever doubting that he'll be the next great one - in fact he might be the "next Ron Artest." I should've thoroughly enjoyed every championship those guys have brought home to us. I can't believe how bad of a fan I've been.

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 11:26 PM
One more thing Jay,

I live in Southern California and even from Laker fans down here....they know the suspension is overboard and blame must be shared...I have seen too much anti-Ron and anti-Pacer sentiment on here that I have not seen anywhere else...so I think Ron is much more popular outside of these boards.

The younger Pacer fans all love Ron Artest...maybe a few older conservative fans don't....but Ron's jerseys sell out quick...he is right there along J.O. as a popular Pacer.Really, 'cause I live in Chicago, where everyone has known for years just how disruptive he can be, especially if he isn't getting his way. They are only surprised that it took this long for him to do something this catastrophic. Don't forget, he had to be restrained by teammates from going after fans when he was a member of the Bulls.

I remember sitting at a game at The UC in 2003. The famous "Jamal Crawford torched Jamaal Tinsley game." Everybody sitting around me was convinced that JO had surpassed Kidd as "the East's MVP" that night. That was the first time I heard MVP and JO in the same sentence - from Bulls fans.

Ron fired up several consecutive rushed 3-pointers, JO never touched the ball in the fourth quarter. All the Bulls fans thanked me once again for taking Ron off thier hands as we exited the arena. They reminded me that the Bulls couldn't have won that game without Ron's ballhogging demonstration.

This isn't about being old and conservative. Its about caring about the team more than I care about its cancerous yet [in]famous player.

You still get the :bs: flag.

And I'm still going to point out that Ron is the disruptive cancer that he is. Because there are plenty of people on here ready to point out every single postive thing he does on the court but are completely willing to bury thier heads in the sand when its time to discuss his "sins." Well, with Ron you will never have one without the other.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 11:29 PM
Sassoon is making a list, he's checking it twice...

He is going to hunt me down, put me on his anti-Ron list, I must hide now.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:43 PM
You're right. Since some people are wearing Ron Artest jerseys he must be the only reason anybody should support the Pacers.

Forgive me Sassoooooon, I'm an unworthy Pacers fan.

Therefore:

I apologize sincerely for trying to be a "smart" fan, to analyze the games and the players, pointing out their strengths and admitting thier weaknesses, and for ever having a doubt any of the players that they've ever put on thier roster.

I'm also sorry to Erick Strickland for calling him the worst PG to ever put on a basketball uniform. And I'm sorry to Ron Mercer for calling him a streaky ballhog. And I'm sorry to George McCloud for calling him "the worst lottery pick of all time" and I'm sorry to Bender for ever doubting that he'll be the next great one - in fact he might be the "next Ron Artest." I should've thoroughly enjoyed every championship those guys have brought home to us. I can't believe how bad of a fan I've been.


What are you rambling about? You said Ron Artest is more popular on here than at the games and I am just pointing out Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal are the two most popular Pacers right now. You said Pacer fans do not support him, I say they support him very much as shown by the poll (I don't know why more don't come and speak out here) and much more in person.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 11:45 PM
It's easy to tell why more people aren't voting on your poll. First, theres been so many more of them, and the choices are way too extreme.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:46 PM
Really, 'cause I live in Chicago, where everyone has known for years just how disruptive he can be, especially if he isn't getting his way. They are only surprised that it took this long for him to do something this catastrophic. Don't forget, he had to be restrained by teammates from going after fans when he was a member of the Bulls.

I remember sitting at a game at The UC in 2003. The famous "Jamal Crawford torched Jamaal Tinsley game." Everybody sitting around me was convinced that JO had surpassed Kidd as "the East's MVP" that night. That was the first time I heard MVP and JO in the same sentence - from Bulls fans.

Ron fired up several consecutive rushed 3-pointers, JO never touched the ball in the fourth quarter. All the Bulls fans thanked me once again for taking Ron off thier hands as we exited the arena. They reminded me that the Bulls couldn't have won that game without Ron's ballhogging demonstration.

This isn't about being old and conservative. Its about caring about the team more than I care about its cancerous yet [in]famous player.

You still get the :bs: flag.

And I'm still going to point out that Ron is the disruptive cancer that he is. Because there are plenty of people on here ready to point out every single postive thing he does on the court but are completely willing to bury thier heads in the sand when its time to discuss his "sins." Well, with Ron you will never have one without the other.


All of the Pacers have had bad games like that including Reggie...this was before Ron elevated his game like it is today. I could care less what a bunch of Bulls fans said...you can discuss his sins all you want but I will discuss how important of a piece he is to our team and how he is one of the top 5 players to be in the NBA and will be an MVP Candidate next year.

Ron Artest dominates on the defensive and offensive end...in every aspect of the game you can imagine. We will not get rid of Ron, he is just too valuable and on 11/19 he did not start fighting someone before being attacked first...but he will surely learn from these incidents and it is going to make him a possible MVP next year...I wouldn't be surprised if Ron was MVP.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:47 PM
OOh, Ooh, can I play

"I live in Virginia and I think I have seen all of one Pacers jersey over my last 5 years here"

I saw a kid in my HS with a reggie one.

I wore my Artest (when I still had his jersey), Foster, JO, Reggie, and Rose (when I had that one) but even at the Wizards - Pacers game I only really see Reggie jerseys, and that cause what the Wizards used to sell pre-game


What in the hell are you talking about?

Looking at jersey's at Pacer game determines the players popular status. That is what I was arguing and that is what is true.

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:47 PM
It's easy to tell why more people aren't voting on your poll. First, theres been so many more of them, and the choices are way too extreme.

I like them extreme...I like to see where people stand on this issue and the poll brings out their true colors! :cool:

XXSASSXX31
01-03-2005, 11:49 PM
Sassoon is making a list, he's checking it twice...

He is going to hunt me down, put me on his anti-Ron list, I must hide now.

Spell my name right! It's SASSAN.

ChicagoJ
01-03-2005, 11:52 PM
What are you rambling about? You said Ron Artest is more popular on here than at the games and I am just pointing out Ron Artest and Jermaine O'Neal are the two most popular Pacers right now. You said Pacer fans do not support him, I say they support him very much as shown by the poll (I don't know why more don't come and speak out here) and much more in person.
No I didn't.

I said Ron is "more popular on here than he is anywhere else". And he's winning your silly poll 10-4. He does not have a 2.5-to-1 support ratio in CFH. Sure, he has fans and some Pacers fans support him. Not once have I ever said Pacers fans don't support him, nor have I ever said the "opposite" of your premise, which would be to say: "If you support that cancerous, disruptive, ballhogging monster, then you can't call yourself a Pacers fan." And many Pacers fans, myself included, don't hate him because he's a "thug", your word, not mine, but because he *is* a cancerous, disruptive, ballhogg.

Hell hath no fury like a Pacers' fan scorned. Since Ron keeps huring the Pacers, he'll continue to recieve my fury.

SoupIsGood
01-03-2005, 11:58 PM
Sassoon is so much better. ;)

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 12:03 AM
No I didn't.

I said Ron is "more popular on here than he is anywhere else". And he's winning your silly poll 10-4. He does not have a 2.5-to-1 support ratio in CFH. Sure, he has fans and some Pacers fans support him. Not once have I ever said Pacers fans don't support him, nor have I ever said the "opposite" of your premise, which would be to say: "If you support that cancerous, disruptive, ballhogging monster, then you can't call yourself a Pacers fan." And many Pacers fans, myself included, don't hate him because he's a "thug", your word, not mine, but because he *is* a cancerous, disruptive, ballhogg.

Hell hath no fury like a Pacers' fan scorned. Since Ron keeps huring the Pacers, he'll continue to recieve my fury.

You can say your opinion, just like I can say mine.

I say more Pacer fans support him at the games than here. I would say 85-90% of fans at Conseco support him, and I talk to many regulars who go to games in Indy...and Ron is just way popular for Pacer fans away from Indy...especially down here in Southern Cali (both Pacer fans and non-Pacer fans love him!!!)....Laker fans all wish they had RON!

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 12:04 AM
So now we cant have Pacers fans in Chicago and VA?

If Ron is so loved, wouldnt all fans, imcluding those in VA have Artest jerseys?

There isn't too many Pacer fans in VA now is there...maybe except you.

There are many more Pacer fans in California or New York than Virginia. I know there are Pacer fans in Chicago...but they support Ronnie.

SoupIsGood
01-04-2005, 12:05 AM
Laker fans all wish they had RON!

They can have him for that Odom fellow.

SoupIsGood
01-04-2005, 12:07 AM
I know there are Pacer fans in Chicago...but they support Ronnie.


Isn't Jay in Chicago?

ChicagoJ
01-04-2005, 12:14 AM
Nah... I think I'm officially on his "not a Pacers fan list." Oh well.

I've been called worse by posters that I actually care about.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 12:20 AM
They can have him for that Odom fellow.


LOLOLOL.

Odom is a good player but you would trade him for Ron? He does not come nearly as close as Ron and would be one of the dumbest trades in Pacers franchise history...hell we have Bender who will come back soon.

Kstat
01-04-2005, 12:38 AM
:lol2: at this thread...........

It amazes me that any of you can give Sassan the dignity of a 5-page argument. It took me all of 2 pages to put him on my IGNORE list. I figured without me for him to troll, he'd turn on other pacer fans, which indeed, he has.

I ignored him, apparently Jay has ignored him, if he annoys you, just put him on your ignore list too, and he'll move on to somebody else. Thats about all I have to say in this thread, becasue thankfully, nothing Sassan says will be visible to me.

SoupIsGood
01-04-2005, 12:41 AM
KStat, thats just what I was thinking. I really don't like the ignore feature, but it may be necessary here. There is no point debating here, its the same thing over, and over, and over. And nice prediction, he has indeed turn on us. ;)

How do I do this...

Kstat
01-04-2005, 12:43 AM
KStat, thats just what I was thinking. I really don't like the ignore feature, but it may be necessary here. There is no point debating here, its the same thing over, and over, and over. And nice prediction, he has indeed turn on us. ;)

How do I do this...

This is the FIRST time Ive ever had to use the feature on anyone, myself.....

Just go to the "user CP" option, and type in his exact screen name under the "ignore" list.

SoupIsGood
01-04-2005, 12:45 AM
Oh sweet Jesus!

canyoufeelit
01-04-2005, 12:50 AM
Wow, it's like this thread just got deflated

Sollozzo
01-04-2005, 12:59 AM
:lol2: at this thread...........

It amazes me that any of you can give Sassan the dignity of a 5-page argument. It took me all of 2 pages to put him on my IGNORE list. I figured without me for him to troll, he'd turn on other pacer fans, which indeed, he has.

I ignored him, apparently Jay has ignored him, if he annoys you, just put him on your ignore list too, and he'll move on to somebody else. Thats about all I have to say in this thread, becasue thankfully, nothing Sassan says will be visible to me.


Thanks, that's the best advice I've had in a while.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 04:48 AM
:lol2: at this thread...........

It amazes me that any of you can give Sassan the dignity of a 5-page argument. It took me all of 2 pages to put him on my IGNORE list. I figured without me for him to troll, he'd turn on other pacer fans, which indeed, he has.

I ignored him, apparently Jay has ignored him, if he annoys you, just put him on your ignore list too, and he'll move on to somebody else. Thats about all I have to say in this thread, becasue thankfully, nothing Sassan says will be visible to me.


Coming from a Piston fan who justifies the actions of the Detroit fans....look, some of you may on here may hate me because I am telling it how it is no b.s. Some of you people on here make me ashamed to think you are Pacers fans....I have never seen so many people on this board hate so many people on this team....support your boys and they will bring us a Title.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 04:50 AM
KStat, thats just what I was thinking. I really don't like the ignore feature, but it may be necessary here. There is no point debating here, its the same thing over, and over, and over. And nice prediction, he has indeed turn on us. ;)

How do I do this...

I have not turned on any of you....I just spoke my mind and wanted to see what kind of "Pacer" fans some of you are. That is all I did and the true colors came out...a lot of people may post they hate Artest....but check the poll 14-5 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers....and not many Pacer fans in other cities like me think like a few of you on here...but Ronnie will be back...Pacers will be fine and we will win Titles.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 04:53 AM
Some of you people organized a little anti-Sassan put on the "Ignore" list rally....looking at the poll and the number of people who visited this thread....most people just don't say things like I do but agree with me....and Pacers organization supports our players....and all of this talk Ronnie won't be here...wait people and you will see....and eat Crow.

Do me one thing, someone remember to open this thread when Ron returns...either for the playoffs or next season.

Bball
01-04-2005, 05:02 AM
This is getting close to 6 pages... This post gets it one post closer.


6 pages.... Sassan should be proud... or ashamed... or amused... One of those! ;)



-Bball

Peck
01-04-2005, 07:15 AM
Hey Sassan,

You & I have known each other for what 9-10 years now? God that seems like a long time, I am way old now.

In all that time you've seen me post both on here & at the old site I have to ask, do you think I'm a Pacer fan?

Just curious?

P.S. after posting this I just figured something out, do you realize that I was only 4 years older than what you are right now when we started posting together? Damn, time flies.

indygeezer
01-04-2005, 07:26 AM
Some of you people organized a little anti-Sassan put on the "Ignore" list rally....looking at the poll and the number of people who visited this thread....most people just don't say things like I do but agree with me....and Pacers organization supports our players....and all of this talk Ronnie won't be here...wait people and you will see....and eat Crow.

Do me one thing, someone remember to open this thread when Ron returns...either for the playoffs or next season.

Once again, get your stories straight. RA is not eligible to play in the PLAYOFFS. He was suspended for the entire year and that included the PO's. I hate to say this, but you are probably right. He MAY VERY WELL play again in a P's uni. Mgmnt will not be able to get anything of value until he plays without controversy....and that will take most of next year to prove to the other GM's.

efx
01-04-2005, 08:44 AM
hell we have Bender who will come back soon.


Hahahaha, just to top the inanity of this thread off. Nice. ;)

DisplacedKnick
01-04-2005, 09:18 AM
You guys putting Sassan on ignore are just cheating yourselves of a wonderful entertainment opportunity.

The original premise of this thread for one - if there's one poster here who should have a certificate with the word "idiot" stamped across it, he's it - and he's telling other people how to THINK?

And I loved the Ron-Ron term. What's up Sassan - you breast feeding him or something?

This whole thread has been priceless.

Kstat
01-04-2005, 09:24 AM
And I loved the Ron-Ron term. What's up Sassan - you breast feeding him or something?

:spitout:

:rotflmao:

efx
01-04-2005, 09:29 AM
I smell a photoshop oppurtunity..... ;)

Stryder
01-04-2005, 09:30 AM
There isn't too many Pacer fans in VA now is there...maybe except you.

There are many more Pacer fans in California or New York than Virginia. I know there are Pacer fans in Chicago...but they support Ronnie.

So, you now know every basketball fan in California, New York, Virginia, and Illinois? Ha.

Stryder
01-04-2005, 09:31 AM
9-4 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers...not everyone on this board hate Ron as you anti-Ron haters may want people who visit this board to think.

You do realize that your poll is flawed, therefore, making it invalid, don't you?

In addition, internet polls are not scientific.

efx
01-04-2005, 09:56 AM
9-4 huh?

The messageboard has obviously spoken...

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 01:30 PM
Hey Sassan,

You & I have known each other for what 9-10 years now? God that seems like a long time, I am way old now.

In all that time you've seen me post both on here & at the old site I have to ask, do you think I'm a Pacer fan?

Just curious?

P.S. after posting this I just figured something out, do you realize that I was only 4 years older than what you are right now when we started posting together? Damn, time flies.

Wow you were 24 or 25???

Of course you are A Pacer fan and a lot of you are....and you should be proud...but there comes to an extent where just some fans bash everything about this team instead of rallying behind it...

I mean on this forum I have even heard the call of "Trade Stephen Jackson" because he is a thug...I am a Pacer fan and I am proud.

Again, I turn 21 in May and I have been a Pacer fan before I was 10 and have never stepped in Indiana...I have given a lot up for the Pacers and I do not regret it one bit....but I have never started to backstab them even some of the players I was not too fond of...there really comes a limit, if I didn't know any better and just by reading the posts I would think some on here hate the Pacers.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 01:33 PM
Once again, get your stories straight. RA is not eligible to play in the PLAYOFFS. He was suspended for the entire year and that included the PO's. I hate to say this, but you are probably right. He MAY VERY WELL play again in a P's uni. Mgmnt will not be able to get anything of value until he plays without controversy....and that will take most of next year to prove to the other GM's.

I never said he was eligible for the playoffs at this point buddy.

What I have said over and over is Ron still has a chance to come back by the end of the season and the playoffs...we do not know what is happening under the tables with Stern and we can still appeal it to the Board of Governors or Ronnie can take it to Federal Court...that is why Pacers management has been so silent on this.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 01:37 PM
You guys putting Sassan on ignore are just cheating yourselves of a wonderful entertainment opportunity.

The original premise of this thread for one - if there's one poster here who should have a certificate with the word "idiot" stamped across it, he's it - and he's telling other people how to THINK?

And I loved the Ron-Ron term. What's up Sassan - you breast feeding him or something?

This whole thread has been priceless.

I am one person who is not hurt by insults by people who do not really mean much to me.

I love it when you name-call me, is that supposed to hurt? You may think I am an idiot, and that is fine! My point in this thread was to get the true colors out of many people and that certainly worked.

Even though not many posters who posted defended me or "Ron Ron"..(I will call him what I please)....the poll on this thread clearly shows so far by 17-6 that Pacer fans even on here support Ron and the Pacers...and support my notion. You may have called me thread pointless, but the Pacers Digest is still on my side and Pacer fans outside of here certainly do not have as much hatred for Ron as some people on here, rather they love him for everything and understood that what he had done may not have been right, but he did get attacked first by thuggish Pissterons fans and just defended himself in a split decision in the wrong way; but also do understand most NBA Players would probably have done the same thing and would not have received anywhere to similar punishment as Ron.

David Stern has a personal vendette against Ron.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 01:41 PM
You do realize that your poll is flawed, therefore, making it invalid, don't you?

In addition, internet polls are not scientific.

Look, I am not taking a scientific poll here.

Right now, it is 17-6 in favor of Ron and the Pacers and no my poll is not flawed and it is not invalid. This forum favors Ron 17-6 at the current point and the ones who hate him posted here while the ones who support him simply have not because some of them may feel like they will get chastised by some of you....

Pacer fans I have met throughout support Ron unanimously...even ones I know in Indy who regularly goes to games...all I have to say is look at all the Ron Artest jerseys in the crowd and throughout the country I find the Ron Artest jersey to be the most popular even ahead of J.O.

Look for me at the Pacer-Suns game Sunday in Phoenix, I will be right behind the Pacer bench...1st row! :)

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 01:42 PM
BTW, 18-6 in favor of Ronnie!!!!

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 01:49 PM
I just wanted to note this people...before people who visit here and don't post start to think Pacer fans on here don't like Ron...the poll has favored Ron clearly 18-6...and Pacer fans outside of here are much more supportive for Ron as well. :D

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PHOTOFILE/AACZ025.jpg

indygeezer
01-04-2005, 01:50 PM
Point of order

I have not voted. Your options do not reflect my views and so I do not vote. I'm willing to bet there are many others feeling the same way.
2nd point...I too feel that Stern was way overboard but rather than sticking it to Ron, he was looking to punish the Pacers for not controlling Ron.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 02:01 PM
This poll represents those who decided to vote and I don't feel most people just decided "not to vote"....this poll reflects the PacersDigest and just leave it to that.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 02:14 PM
it keeps going up! 19-6 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers!!!!

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 03:02 PM
I don't know every fan but the ones I have talked to, even the non-Pacer fans are all much more positive about him than some of you and all acknowledge a season long suspension was outrageous....but again, there is only a few of you on here than do not like Ron, the majority on here support Ron and the PAcers as shown by this poll.

And also, reason why I post so much is i'm @ work in the day and I can do what I want...now I have a headace and feeling sick. I'm going to go take a nap. :(

recap
01-04-2005, 03:56 PM
Hey Sassan, when the Pacers trade players, as they have in the past and will surely in the future (not necessarily Artest), as a real Pacer fan am I supposed to support the new players or the old ones? I'm a little confused, and I want to make sure that I am following real fan etiquette. Whenever we make our next trade, since I am supporting our current players 100%, should I be pissed that management traded the player that I support and love? Wait, I have to support management, so I can't support the old players right? Wait, but then they won't be Pacers anymore, so now I should support the new Pacers, right? I guess I shouldn't worry about it and should just focus on hating Stern.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 05:30 PM
Hey Sassan, when the Pacers trade players, as they have in the past and will surely in the future (not necessarily Artest), as a real Pacer fan am I supposed to support the new players or the old ones? I'm a little confused, and I want to make sure that I am following real fan etiquette. Whenever we make our next trade, since I am supporting our current players 100%, should I be pissed that management traded the player that I support and love? Wait, I have to support management, so I can't support the old players right? Wait, but then they won't be Pacers anymore, so now I should support the new Pacers, right? I guess I shouldn't worry about it and should just focus on hating Stern.

Come on Recap, what kind of question is that?

I will answer it though.

#1, the suspension on Ron Artest was not only a vendeta Stern had against Ron, but it is against the Indiana Pacers franchise; that has been my argument on here.

If we could trade Ron Artest to make our team better for let's say a Shaquille O'Neal or a Kevin Garnett, I would pull the trigger (for Kevin Garnett for sure)....but I would not trade him for someone who could not replace Ronnie and would not make this team as good as if Ron was still on the team.

If we are going to trade players, that is fine...it is part of the game....but respect former Pacer players. I respect Jalen for what he brought to the Pacers...I respect the Davis bros....even Travis Best....but we move on....come on, stop with the question and understand the point I am trying to get across.

The suspension against Ron can not be justified by any means (the length of it) and of course I hate Stern....I do believe in the conspiracy theory and how the NBA does not want small market teams to win championships and this punishing Ron for the whole season was a blow at Ron and the Pacers and surely one must recognize that.

SoupIsGood
01-04-2005, 05:43 PM
Look I can sum up this whole thread in three sentences.

You are not a real fan, all of you.

Ron will win us many titles.

Stern is the anti-christ.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 05:48 PM
Look I can sum up this whole thread in three sentences.

You are not a real fan, all of you.

Ron will win us many titles.

Stern is the anti-christ.

There are only two posters on here I do not consider true Pacer fans...the other ones have said nothing to make me think otherwise.

sweabs
01-04-2005, 05:54 PM
:lurk: Wait...what am I doing here? :shakehead

Diamond Dave
01-04-2005, 05:57 PM
If anything this thread is making me hate Stern less.

After the brawl and sentencing I had some very strong feelings against Stern. I always thought Ron got what he deserved but felt Jermaine got too much. I also had suspicions on the way Stern ran this league.

Now after reading this thread I see that I sounded like loon and the type of people my thinking would be associated with. Have too say this thread has opened my eyes and has given me a better opinion of the League Office

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 05:59 PM
If anything this thread is making me hate Stern less.

After the brawl and sentencing I had some very strong feelings against Stern. I always thought Ron got what he deserved but felt Jermaine got too much. I also had suspicions on the way Stern ran this league.

Now after reading this thread I see that I sounded like loon and the type of people my thinking would be associated with. Have too say this thread has opened my eyes and has given me a better opinion of the League Office

Look, my posts are extremist on here....but that is what I am trying to do! I am trying to rile people up and have them voice their real opinions and make them come out of the closet and I have successfully done that. You know where certain Pacer "fans" stand about their team and you know the loyalty I bring and where I stand...

I am not here to make people here happy, I am here to make a point and controversy is what brings that.

efx
01-04-2005, 06:06 PM
Problem is, just because you elect to have 2 extreme options in the poll that does not mean they reflect what most people think.

Yes, you can rile ppl up but that has nothing to do with them being able to express their true opinion or not.

swoop
01-04-2005, 06:09 PM
I agree...people are so quick to want to dump ron...thinking that it was his fault. Or that it was just so bound to happen. Had it been ANY other player...be it Tmac,Kobe,KG..would they not have done the same thing? and if it was someone like KG I bet you he wouldn't have gotten more than 5-8 games.

FREE ARTEST



I agree with joneal7 because just Ron Artest would get this suspension, not a big star like kobe etc. and since when did they start giving suspensions for things in the past VApacersfan????

FREE ARTEST

Diamond Dave
01-04-2005, 06:15 PM
Look, my posts are extremist on here....but that is what I am trying to do! I am trying to rile people up and have them voice their real opinions and make them come out of the closet and I have successfully done that. You know where certain Pacer "fans" stand about their team and you know the loyalty I bring and where I stand...

I am not here to make people here happy, I am here to make a point and controversy is what brings that.

Well if you are trying to get people to voice their opinions you are doing a very poor job. People cannot voice their opinions when they are too busy defending whether they're a Pacer fan or not.

You have not successfully brought out anyone's opinion. Unless you consider a record amount of new "Ignore List" users an opinion.

I am not sure that promoting a free exchange of ideas is your goal or rather it is just trying to **** people off. Obviously I have not put you on the ignore list, but please do not come away from this thread thinking that those who put you on the ignore list did it because they couldn't handle your opinions.

I do not know how you can do this but somehow someway you posts need to be less demeaning. It is true that lately they do not insult anyone directly, but every post you make comes off as arrogant and belittleling.

If you really feel the way that your posts make you seem then I have to wonder why you bother with an ignorant message board such as this. Clearly we have no inside presence and obviously our fandom is such below yours that you should have little interest in what we say.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 06:20 PM
I agree with joneal7 because just Ron Artest would get this suspension, not a big star like kobe etc. and since when did they start giving suspensions for things in the past VApacersfan????

FREE ARTEST

Exactly My sentiment my friend!!! There are too many people here that post that hate Ron Artest's guts rather then embracing him and helping him and he will be back as A Pacer to help us get over the top...hopefully we will win it all this year...but if not, let's stop these trade ideas of getting rid of Ron for much less talented players...Ron has the determination and heart to win.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 06:30 PM
Well if you are trying to get people to voice their opinions you are doing a very poor job. People cannot voice their opinions when they are too busy defending whether they're a Pacer fan or not.

You have not successfully brought out anyone's opinion. Unless you consider a record amount of new "Ignore List" users an opinion.

I am not sure that promoting a free exchange of ideas is your goal or rather it is just trying to **** people off. Obviously I have not put you on the ignore list, but please do not come away from this thread thinking that those who put you on the ignore list did it because they couldn't handle your opinions.

I do not know how you can do this but somehow someway you posts need to be less demeaning. It is true that lately they do not insult anyone directly, but every post you make comes off as arrogant and belittleling.

If you really feel the way that your posts make you seem then I have to wonder why you bother with an ignorant message board such as this. Clearly we have no inside presence and obviously our fandom is such below yours that you should have little interest in what we say.

Look,

I am not saying your fandom is less than mine...there is just a couple of posters which I have problems with and if they want to ban me they can go ahead....but look at the poll done on here! Most Pacer fans even on here agree with my sentiment! They may not have posted because they do not want to agree with me because I look like a "goof" or whatever you want to call me...but I am out here to bat for Ron Artest and for Pacer fans all over the world to know we love and support Ron Artest and can't wait for him to return in a Pacers uniform.

Some people on here think I am ridiculus for supporting Ron Artest and for thinking the season long suspensions were unjust....there is no doubt some people on here are upset but I did not name call anyone and if they want to ignore me and attempt to belittle me, it is only because some of these people are scared to admit that some of what I am saying truly has merits to it.

Look, I am not here to make friends...I am here to make points and even those who think I did not make any points I think most posters who do not post here realize I raised a very important issue and again, from the poll taken here I feel majority of Pacer fans are on my side (even on here!)...more in real life!

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 06:33 PM
Diamond Dave,

How can I promote a "free exchange" of ideas without being controversial...if I say anything supporting Ron Artest the anti-Ron Artest group runs to every post bashing him...we Pacer fans are united in support of our players but there is a small minority who want others to think Pacer fans do not support Ronnie when they do....those who put me on ignore did so as they wish but again, look at the length of this thread and all the replies, I surely got my point across without using profanity but had to use controversial tactics...

and 1 more thing....it's funny how so many people on here think they know that "Ronnie is gone from the team no matter what" and they speak for "Donnie Walsh" when they honestly do not know much.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 06:38 PM
I thought I already answered this, but I realize its a long thread so Ill do it again.

I do not think a big name star like Kobe would have gotten this suspension, but has Kobe done anything close to what Ron has (breaking a camera, the Pat Riley incident, etc....)

Oh, just for the record, people WILL ALWAYS judge you based on what you did in the past.

(Jay, I am using you as an example, if you dont like this I will gladly delete it)

If I and Jay both rob a bank, but I have 4 felonies while Jay merely has a parking ticket, guess who is going to get the bigger penalty? BINGO!! Me.

Just like it Ron and JO are both apart of a brawl, and Ron has a troubled past (in the NBA) and JO doesnt, guess who will get punished severely. BINGO!! Ron

So to answer your question "always"


Ok, I thought this anti-Ron troll would stop posting on my thread...that's what he said....

Ron Artest was not charged with anything criminally....he already served his time for previous suspensions and his behavior has been excellent the last season or so. What happened on 11.19 was an isolated incident in which Ron got attacked first by having a cup thrown at his face during a big rivalry by the same type of fans who have thrown coins at him...Ron could only take so much and he snapped....

Once again, he should have been punished but for anyone to justify a season long suspension for his actions based on any type of precedence is absolutelly ridiculus...there is no justificastion whatsoever for Stern's biased ruling.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 06:53 PM
Here is something a great person said regarding the brawl:

nooooooo way, Can I come to your job and throw Beer and Quarters at you while you sit in your cubicle..................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Will your job suspend you for a whole year if you over react. I think not my friend. LOL Over reacting can not be explained but the punishment is a little harsh.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 06:55 PM
BTW, just to say one last thing. I really dont care if people thing I am a real fan or not, thats not why I am here.

I have voiced my opinion, and I am done with this thread. Yesterday was kind of fun being refered to as the "anti-Artest group" and even though I spent about $3000 on the Pacers last year I am not a real fan.

I didnt get the contract as to what I need to sign to be a real fan, and since I am about to move in the coming months and I dont have enogh wall space for my Pacers posters I would say I have a issue with the Pacers, but I really do like my obsession :)

If some posters here dont like my POV or want to talk to me, so be it. I am even willing to voice my opinion and I am more than willing to hear someone elses POV. That is why I truely love having Kstat on this forum. I dont appreciate being told how to be a fan of my team, and considering jerseys/tickets/league pass add up, Ill attempt to do my best on my own terms.


Also, my new favorite line, better than calling someone a troll or not a real fan:

This message is hidden because XXSASSXX31 is on your ignore list (http://www.pacersdigest.com/forums/profile.php?do=editlist).</SPAN>



I love it, you put a link to an "ignore list"...how does it feel to live an insecure life? I think some like you feel threatened of my opinions because they bring out the truth in people.

sweabs
01-04-2005, 06:58 PM
Thanks for the link VA :)

Kstat
01-04-2005, 07:37 PM
This message is hidden because XXSASSXX31 is on your ignore list.

EVeryone should try this at least once. Its almost therapudic, like you're on a tropical island, sipping one of those drinks with little straws in it, and you're looking out to sea at the rest of the world's problems......which can no longer bother you.

XXSASSXX31
01-04-2005, 07:42 PM
Updated count: 22-8 in favor of Ronnie Artest and the Indiana Pacers :P

shags
01-04-2005, 10:06 PM
Hicks,

shaggs or whatever his name is has called him a thug alongside Stephen Jackson, and so has other Pacer fans on and off. I am @ work so I type fast on here and talk to clients and don't have time to look it up but I surely will later.

I tried to stay out of this thread, but since you called me out. . . ugh.

First of all, I'm a Piston fan, so you can definitely include me in the "non-Pacer" fans group and "anti-Artest" group. I post here because I live in Indianapolis, the Pacers-Pistons rivalry, and the general excellent NBA discussion.

As for your accusations, I've got a challenge for you. FIND THE THREAD!!! I never said those two were thugs, at least to my recollection. If I did, I'll apologize. If I'm right, I hope you're man enough to apologize for your accusations. I don't like to be wrongly accused.

PacerMan
01-04-2005, 11:25 PM
I have to bring this into call for this entire forum...supporting Ron Artest is supporting the franchise of the Indiana Pacers.

Too many people on here are so quick to bash Ron Artest and want to get rid of him for nothing!

The fact of the matter is that Ron Artest is a vital piece of our team to win a championship and what happened on 11/19 was unfortunate but we must look at the mitigating factors and realize that suspending him for the season was clearly overboard and in no way can be justified.

Supporting Ron Artest is supporting Jermaine O'Neal, supporting Stephen Jackson, and supporting rest of the Pacers. The reason many do not like Ron Artest on here is because of his so called "Thugish" image; and I have heard some "Pacer fans" on here say the same thing of Stephen Jackson.

Some of you Pacer fans have to realize that Ron Ron is not responsible for the behavior of others such as J.O. and Stephen but Stephen and J.O. were out there to defend their pride and their family members when the unfortunate incident took place on 11/19. I don't see enough Pacer fans on here putting blame on Ben Wallace for inciting this....Palace security....Palace organization...the Referees for not controlling the game and kicking out Ben Wallace immediatly...the Auburn Hills Police...and most importantly the Detroit Pissertons fans who not only threw the cup at Ron Artest to start the chaos but for escalating it by throwing more cups at Ron in the crowd and showing us the classless type of people they are by behaving the way they did by drenching our team with alcohol, a thrown chair, and by going on the court.

You have to understand, our team got disrespected and I guarantee you every Indiana Pacer supports Ron Artest and hates Detroit Pistons fans and will let it be known next time we beat them in Detroit. How come more Pacer fans are not outraged after our players got disrespected as human beings on 11/19, look what happened in the tunnel...but then you are so quick to Ron Artest because he is the quickest and easiest scapegoat possible....David Stern wanted to set Ron as an "example" and I find the suspensions can not even be justified even if you want to suspend him overboard. A 50 game suspension would have sent a very strong statement...the season long suspension took aim at a Pacer championship.

With a Ron Artest...no one in the NBA can stop us from winning a title...we would clearly be favorites. Ron Artest elevates his game to a whole different level each year which is scary. Ron will score 25/game on you while shooting 90% free-throws and dominate both the inside/outside part of the offensive game while dominating his opponent defensively which in turns changes the whole game around. Ron is one of the top 5-10 players in the NBA and he is so young, and he will only continue to improve!!! He is not even at his peak...it is scary how good Ron Ron is and how much better he will get...

He's so good.
Blah blah blah
We can't win a title without him.
Blah blah blah

There is more to life than winning.
I support my Pacers.
I don't support Ron Artest.
Or your POV.
:)

PacerMan
01-04-2005, 11:28 PM
While I wont argue there is star treatment, we will never know how any of those guys would have reacted. You can tell untill you have been in that situation.

Also, have any of those guys:

Breaking the camera
Not getting along with teammates
suspended by Thomas one game
Suspended by league many games for flagerant fouls
Migrines during playoffs
Refuses to listen to coach's called plays
refuses to get on team plane from miami
asks for a month off to work on CD (Priorities...?)


Keep in mind I left the brawl off. So I mean we can all ***** and wine, but you reep what you sew. Once you get a bad reputation in life, it is really hard to get rid of it, if you ever do. This is a lesson Ronnie had to learn the hard way, if he has learned it yet (I wont even ursue this any further, eveyone already knows how I feel about this topic)

You forgot suspended by Rick for "conduct detremental to the team" or something simillar to that.
Yeh, he puts the "I" in TEAM>

SoupIsGood
01-04-2005, 11:34 PM
This message is hidden because XXSASSXX31 is on your ignore list.

I am loving it....

How is this guy not banned yet, anyhow?

Kstat
01-04-2005, 11:38 PM
This message is hidden because XXSASSXX31 is on your ignore list.

I am loving it....

How is this guy not banned yet, anyhow?

He WAS banned. They un-banned him.

Why they did that, i'll never know. But hey, their problem, not mine. I'm not forced to listen to his ramblings.

I will add that the FORUM has the power to ban him, if EVERYBODY puts him on their ignore lists, but that would take a lot of agreeement.

sweabs
01-05-2005, 12:02 AM
He WAS banned. They un-banned him.

Why they did that, i'll never know. But hey, their problem, not mine. I'm not forced to listen to his ramblings.

I will add that the FORUM has the power to ban him, if EVERYBODY puts him on their ignore lists, but that would take a lot of agreeement.
I think most have. It is so nice though :cloud9:

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 01:50 AM
I tried to stay out of this thread, but since you called me out. . . ugh.

First of all, I'm a Piston fan, so you can definitely include me in the "non-Pacer" fans group and "anti-Artest" group. I post here because I live in Indianapolis, the Pacers-Pistons rivalry, and the general excellent NBA discussion.

As for your accusations, I've got a challenge for you. FIND THE THREAD!!! I never said those two were thugs, at least to my recollection. If I did, I'll apologize. If I'm right, I hope you're man enough to apologize for your accusations. I don't like to be wrongly accused.

I remember in a thread you specifically had that written.

J.O. had a great night so I want to move on with this topic (including I have a fever and am sick)....but I just find it funny the Pisster fans coming on here telling a Pacer fan like me what to do when the Pistons and their fans are the one's who have made our season much more difficult....we will still win the Central, don't worry :)

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 01:51 AM
He's so good.
Blah blah blah
We can't win a title without him.
Blah blah blah

There is more to life than winning.
I support my Pacers.
I don't support Ron Artest.
Or your POV.
:)

There is more to life than winning?

I'm sorry my friend but I don't agree with that point. Luckily J.O. had an amazing night tonight...but us Pacer fans waiting so long for a championship are not going to say well "we don't want Ron because winning isn't everything...", I just do not buy into that notion. WINNING IS EVERYTHING

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 01:55 AM
He WAS banned. They un-banned him.

Why they did that, i'll never know. But hey, their problem, not mine. I'm not forced to listen to his ramblings.

I will add that the FORUM has the power to ban him, if EVERYBODY puts him on their ignore lists, but that would take a lot of agreeement.


Well Pacer fans, I find it absolutely hilarious a Pissterons fan who justifies the actions of the Piston fans and players for what happened on 11/19 which hurt our season dramatically, would tells a Pacer forum (I am a Pacer fan since I was 9) that I should have remained banned....

How I behaved during the playoffs was not classy and I deserved what I got, but I have not used any profanity on here and I have expressed my view point in a civilized manner. We live in a free country, and I represent a high majority of silent Pacer fans on this forum. This can be seen by the forum poll which the Pacers Digest fans support Ron and the Pacers 24-10 which is a very sizable margin....but enough of this, Jermaine O'Neal had an unbelievable game and he makes me proud what kind of character he has. Imagine how good of a team we will be with Stephen Jackson and Bender back, and imagine the Elite team we will be with Ronnie back either next season or hopefully by the end of the season.

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 02:00 AM
One last message on here:

PACER FANS HAVE VOTED 25-10 in favor of Ron and the Pacers (Which is 71-28%). What do those anti-Ron posters on here have to say about that?

I believe all they can say is my voting system is flawed and it does not "represent the forum" but a good deal of people have voted and I am sure those "anti-Ron" posters also voted against him....and as I had said, Pacer fans outside of this board are much more positive of Ron as well....there is a silent majority who will not post on here because of my "controversial tactics" but it surely has brought out the true colors of people, and I do not mind Pisster fans (we hate the Pistons) or others who are anti-Ron and do not support this team at this crucial moment that have banned me...but I would love to have rational conversations with Pacer fans who are critical of Ron; but I just do not seriously see how a faithful Pacer fan can justify the season long suspension of Ron Artest by looking at precedent and what has happened in the history of league suspensions and realizing what an impact David Stern made on this franchise...

I just had to respond to some of those posters...but tonight is Jermaine O'Neal's night and to be honest, I am not amazed by Jermaine's game....that's the capabilities J.O. brings to the table.

shags
01-05-2005, 08:13 AM
I remember in a thread you specifically had that written.

J.O. had a great night so I want to move on with this topic (including I have a fever and am sick)....but I just find it funny the Pisster fans coming on here telling a Pacer fan like me what to do when the Pistons and their fans are the one's who have made our season much more difficult....we will still win the Central, don't worry :)

Find the thread. That's all I'm asking.

Fool
01-05-2005, 10:22 AM
One last message on here:

PACER FANS HAVE VOTED 25-10 in favor of Ron and the Pacers (Which is 71-28%). What do those anti-Ron posters on here have to say about that?

I believe all they can say is my voting system is flawed and it does not "represent the forum" but a good deal of people have voted and I am sure those "anti-Ron" posters also voted against him....and as I had said, Pacer fans outside of this board are much more positive of Ron as well....there is a silent majority who will not post on here because of my "controversial tactics" but it surely has brought out the true colors of people, and I do not mind Pisster fans (we hate the Pistons) or others who are anti-Ron and do not support this team at this crucial moment that have banned me...but I would love to have rational conversations with Pacer fans who are critical of Ron; but I just do not seriously see how a faithful Pacer fan can justify the season long suspension of Ron Artest by looking at precedent and what has happened in the history of league suspensions and realizing what an impact David Stern made on this franchise...

I just had to respond to some of those posters...but tonight is Jermaine O'Neal's night and to be honest, I am not amazed by Jermaine's game....that's the capabilities J.O. brings to the table.


There are over 120 members here with over 100 posts. If we just count them, at the current tally of 25-10 your poll caught less then 30% of the members here. There are over 1,400 members "registered" (I didn't count them individually, the member list displays 30 members a page and there were 47 pages). If we count all of them then your poll samples less than 3%. Either way, it in no way represents the "Pacer Digest" as a whole nor does it show a "silent majority" (how can you call anyone voicing their opinion through a poll "silent" anyway?).

That doesn't mean you are wrong about whether a majority of Pacer Digest members agree with you. It just means that if you use your poll as support you are only hurting your own argument.

recap
01-05-2005, 10:43 AM
In addition to the reasons that others have stated for not voting, I'm sure that there are some like me who haven't voted because while I agree that Ron was treated too harshly and that he is key to Pacers championship hopes this year, I disagree with pretty much everything else that Sassan says. Consequently, I choose not to add to this silly poll.

ChicagoJ
01-05-2005, 11:02 AM
This thread is still alive?


Oh, I see, Sassooooooon has almost half of the posts. Maybe he's talking to himself?

:shrug:

swoop
01-05-2005, 01:01 PM
Sassson Has Posted Over 50 Times On This One Thread. He Is Definitetly Talking To Himself.

PacerMan
01-05-2005, 04:18 PM
There is more to life than winning?

I'm sorry my friend but I don't agree with that point. Luckily J.O. had an amazing night tonight...but us Pacer fans waiting so long for a championship are not going to say well "we don't want Ron because winning isn't everything...", I just do not buy into that notion. WINNING IS EVERYTHING

Ok, now you're just too silly to have a voice.
bye bye

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 08:54 PM
There are over 120 members here with over 100 posts. If we just count them, at the current tally of 25-10 your poll caught less then 30% of the members here. There are over 1,400 members "registered" (I didn't count them individually, the member list displays 30 members a page and there were 47 pages). If we count all of them then your poll samples less than 3%. Either way, it in no way represents the "Pacer Digest" as a whole nor does it show a "silent majority" (how can you call anyone voicing their opinion through a poll "silent" anyway?).

That doesn't mean you are wrong about whether a majority of Pacer Digest members agree with you. It just means that if you use your poll as support you are only hurting your own argument.

I am not hurting my argument at all, because Pacer fans outside of this board are much more positive than Pacer fans on here...and I would expect those to hate Ron to certainly vote more than those who like him...and so far it's 25-10 in favor of Ron and the Pacers.

You may say it hurts my argument, but it certainly does not. PACER FANS even on here support Ron :)

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 08:55 PM
In addition to the reasons that others have stated for not voting, I'm sure that there are some like me who haven't voted because while I agree that Ron was treated too harshly and that he is key to Pacers championship hopes this year, I disagree with pretty much everything else that Sassan says. Consequently, I choose not to add to this silly poll.


Exactly! There are probably more people who did not vote on my side because of this reason...but even because of a reason like this, the poll dominated on the side of Ron and the Pacers.

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 08:56 PM
Ok, now you're just too silly to have a voice.
bye bye

i'm silly to say winning is everything? It certainly is everything...winning a championship is EVERYTHING.

XXSASSXX31
01-05-2005, 10:10 PM
26-10 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers now...it keeps on growing!

Stryder
01-06-2005, 12:51 AM
26-10 in favor of Ronnie and the Pacers now...it keeps on growing!

Stop voting. The poll is not scientific; therefore, it is flawed and invalid. It does not "prove" any point you may be trying to make.

Stryder
01-06-2005, 01:02 AM
Look, I am not taking a scientific poll here.

Right now, it is 17-6 in favor of Ron and the Pacers and no my poll is not flawed and it is not invalid. This forum favors Ron 17-6 at the current point and the ones who hate him posted here while the ones who support him simply have not because some of them may feel like they will get chastised by some of you....

Pacer fans I have met throughout support Ron unanimously...even ones I know in Indy who regularly goes to games...all I have to say is look at all the Ron Artest jerseys in the crowd and throughout the country I find the Ron Artest jersey to be the most popular even ahead of J.O.

Look for me at the Pacer-Suns game Sunday in Phoenix, I will be right behind the Pacer bench...1st row! :)

Actually, yes, the poll is flawed and invalid. Statistics 101.

Problems with the poll at a glance: Two extreme answers to choose from, a person can vote more than once, nonrandom biased sample, etc.

Once again, you have not met all Pacers fans, so don't generalize. This is a topic that I know you CANNOT generalize. It elicits too many different responses.

I love Artest as a player. And I think Stern acted too quickly. And, I think that the year long suspension is rather harsh, but a new precedent needed to be set. Ron Artest is being made an example. Sometimes that needs to be done.

XXSASSXX31
01-06-2005, 01:19 AM
Actually, yes, the poll is flawed and invalid. Statistics 101.

Problems with the poll at a glance: Two extreme answers to choose from, a person can vote more than once, nonrandom biased sample, etc.

Once again, you have not met all Pacers fans, so don't generalize. This is a topic that I know you CANNOT generalize. It elicits too many different responses.

I love Artest as a player. And I think Stern acted too quickly. And, I think that the year long suspension is rather harsh, but a new precedent needed to be set. Ron Artest is being made an example. Sometimes that needs to be done.


Once again, I am not voting over and over...you can only vote once on these boards....

Now again, I question the loyalty of Pacer fans who say that the suspension was just and a "new precedent" needed to be set...why?!?!

Why was the blame not shared around the table? Why did Ben the Punk Wallace get only 6 games? How come the Referees did not eject Wallace? The refs did not have control of the game and the incident was dragging on...where in the hell was Detroit security???? The blame obviously was not shared around as it should have been.

You can not like Ron and want him traded...but for any sane person to say thge suspensions were "just" and not overboard based on any factor....I question their loyalty because the suspensions were not just an attack on Ron Artest, but they were an attack on the Pacers organization and to Pacer fans everywhere...

BTW, you are right...I may not know Pacer fans all over the world...every single one...but based on the ones I do know and the ones I see on tv...the Ron Artest jersey is still very popular and is one of the highest Pacer selling jerseys....these numbers are very important and even though the anti-Ron crowd organized 13 votes against Ron (probably double votes)....Pacers Digest members still clearly favor Ron and the Pacers.

Hicks
01-06-2005, 01:27 AM
"probably double votes"? :laugh: Sassan, you JUST SAID in the SAME post that you can't do that on these polls (and you're right, you can't). What was that? :laugh:

XXSASSXX31
01-06-2005, 01:29 AM
"probably double votes"? :laugh: Sassan, you JUST SAID in the SAME post that you can't do that on these polls (and you're right, you can't). What was that? :laugh:

What if people made multiple screennames??? I don't have any multiple sns....and what if there was an organized effort? I sure did not have an organized rally for people to vote Pro-Ron...people saw the poll and voted!

Hicks
01-06-2005, 01:32 AM
I HIGHLY doubt people took all that time and effort for this. And, actually, you have a bunch of aliases...

XXSASSXX31
01-06-2005, 01:41 AM
I HIGHLY doubt people took all that time and effort for this. And, actually, you have a bunch of aliases...

I DID....all my other ones are banned and I only use this one.

Hicks
01-06-2005, 01:52 AM
Ok.

SoupIsGood
01-06-2005, 02:00 AM
Since this thread had gone to hell, I would like to say something. Something strange has happened to the chair I sit in, previously amazingly comfortable, it has been now robbed of that necessary "comfort" factor. It is like I am being punished here, this thing is bound to hurt me. Sassoon I am blaming you for this strange occurance. ;)

Peck
01-06-2005, 02:12 AM
Wow you were 24 or 25???

Of course you are A Pacer fan and a lot of you are....and you should be proud...but there comes to an extent where just some fans bash everything about this team instead of rallying behind it...

I mean on this forum I have even heard the call of "Trade Stephen Jackson" because he is a thug...I am a Pacer fan and I am proud.

Again, I turn 21 in May and I have been a Pacer fan before I was 10 and have never stepped in Indiana...I have given a lot up for the Pacers and I do not regret it one bit....but I have never started to backstab them even some of the players I was not too fond of...there really comes a limit, if I didn't know any better and just by reading the posts I would think some on here hate the Pacers.


A couple of things.

1. No, my bad. I was 27 when we started posting together so I was still a little older than you are now. God that feels like a lifetime ago.

2. Ok, now that you've said that I'm a Pacers fan how do we reconcile the fact that I am Ron Artest biggest detractor on here. You think Jay is bad? I've been on his @ss since the day he punched Andre Kirlinko in the back of the head two seasons ago. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a wonderfull baskteball talent & I would love for nothing more for than the guy to be able to get it together & help the team. But I've just seen to much. To me the fight on the 19th was not the end with him. That came a long time ago.

But having said all of that, I love the Pacers. We both know that. Trust me I know you love the Pacers to, but I just don't support Ron.

3. What school are you going to now? I know you used to go to a high $$$ private blue ribbon prep. school. Where did you get into?

XXSASSXX31
01-06-2005, 04:56 AM
Since this thread had gone to hell, I would like to say something. Something strange has happened to the chair I sit in, previously amazingly comfortable, it has been now robbed of that necessary "comfort" factor. It is like I am being punished here, this thing is bound to hurt me. Sassoon I am blaming you for this strange occurance. ;)


When you betray Ron...you betray me...so I cast a curse on you...lol i'm joking. Sorry about your chair.

XXSASSXX31
01-06-2005, 04:57 AM
It seems interesting, doesn't it????

The poll had it supporting Ron 26-10 and all of a sudden 6 people voted against Ron and the PACERS??? You're telling me they had only 10 votes but all of a sudden 6 people jumped in against Ronnie...i'm telling you, the anti-Ron crowd organized their efforts or a poster made various usernames to do this...but regardless even with their tactics, even Pacers Digest members clearly favor Ron and support him.

XXSASSXX31
01-06-2005, 05:03 AM
A couple of things.

1. No, my bad. I was 27 when we started posting together so I was still a little older than you are now. God that feels like a lifetime ago.

2. Ok, now that you've said that I'm a Pacers fan how do we reconcile the fact that I am Ron Artest biggest detractor on here. You think Jay is bad? I've been on his @ss since the day he punched Andre Kirlinko in the back of the head two seasons ago. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a wonderfull baskteball talent & I would love for nothing more for than the guy to be able to get it together & help the team. But I've just seen to much. To me the fight on the 19th was not the end with him. That came a long time ago.

But having said all of that, I love the Pacers. We both know that. Trust me I know you love the Pacers to, but I just don't support Ron.

3. What school are you going to now? I know you used to go to a high $$$ private blue ribbon prep. school. Where did you get into?

Peck,


Time truly has gone by so fast...it really is scary...i'm going to be 21 soon...it is frightening when you think about how short life really is.

You don't have to support Ron 100% to love the Pacers...but there comes to a limit which boundaries are drawn. Even if you want to trade Ron, I do not see how you can put 100% of the blame on Ron for what happened on 11/19 and I do not see how a rational person can justify the season long suspension of Ron based on precedence or any factor you want to look at! Ron was attacked on 11/19 twice and a year before he had coins thrown at him so he snapped...he should have been punished but a year long suspension was clearly overboard and was not just an insult at Ron but was an insult on the Pacers franchise.

I do support Ron, and we must look at how much his behavior had improved before 11/19....Ron is a interesting individual and we must look at all the factors...but I believe he will return next season and help our team dramatically.

Peck,

I never went to a "private prep. school"...I am not sure where you got that one at but I did go to a Blue Ribbon High School...I am going to a j.c. and working and will transfer to UCI hopefully soon...

SoupIsGood
09-22-2005, 11:36 PM
LOL!111!!!!!1111!!!11!!!

Jermaniac
09-23-2005, 12:17 AM
Free post

efx
09-23-2005, 02:28 AM
Greatest thread ever

317Kim
09-23-2005, 06:15 AM
Free post

I want one too! :-p

Pacers#1Fan
09-23-2005, 07:56 AM
Me to.