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View Full Version : Sick and Tired of Fred's Inability to Deal with Pressure



Anthem
12-26-2004, 08:30 PM
Didn't see this discussed anywhere, so I thought I'd post it here.

Nobody has talked about the fact that our comeback was effectively killed by Fred Jones losing his cool and elbowing Rip Hamilton. Two shots and the ball... that was the dagger.

Yeah, the guy played well right after the suspensions. Good for him. The thing is, that was the time when we had no expectations and there was no pressure on him. He was able to do his thing without other teams having scouted him, and so he got off to a good start. Since then, though, he's been a victim of his own success. He hasn't able to keep up with it. The real problem is that when you put him in an intensely competitive situation he can't control himself. He's a great basketball talent but he needs to find another line of work.

----------

Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek.... I was just curious as to why nobody commented on the fact that Fred's "foul" on Rip was almost identical to Ron's "foul" on Rip. Artest has been crucified all summer and season for what Rip admitted was a flop. Why isn't anybody saying those things about Fred?

Roy Munson
12-26-2004, 08:38 PM
I'm glad I read your last paragraph because after I read the first two, I had smoke coming out of my ears and I was warming up for a tirade.

Outlaw
12-26-2004, 09:16 PM
I didn't see it as that big of a deal. Freddie was trying to deny Rip the ball and when his elbow touched Rip,Rip like REGGIE, flopped to make it appear worse than it really was.At least the replay showed such.IMO.Rip is starting to make a career out of mimicing the Reggie flop every time someone touches him.

Hicks
12-26-2004, 09:27 PM
Rip acted his way into the flagrant call. I have to see it again to see if Fred went out of his way (like Ron did in the ECF) to hit him in the first place, rather than what could be seen more as a basketball play.

That should be enough for most, but if not then I'll add this. Fred has much more of a "benefit of the doubt" than Ron did/does. Finally, this wasn't the end of an elination game in the ECF. But that last point is least important to me.

Free Artest
12-26-2004, 09:41 PM
Fred Jones is the 2nd most clutch player on the team. The only player I'd rather have take a last second shot is Reggie.

Unclebuck
12-26-2004, 09:43 PM
Rip is a very dirty player, I watched him very closely yesterday and was very surprised just how dirty he is.

Kstat
12-26-2004, 09:45 PM
Rip is a very dirty player, I watched him very closely yesterday and was very surprised just how dirty he is.

*sigh*

I'm not even sure this is really UB anymore........he's been totally irrational over the last week or so.

I suppose he's right, as long as he admits Reggie is a "dirty player" too.....

UBG, is there any player left on the Pistons roster that you havent suddenly decided is "evil?"

ReGgieMiLLeR31
12-26-2004, 10:09 PM
KSTAT, why don't you get it we are on a Pacers forum and these dirty Detroit Pistons effectively ruined our season and none of the blame was taken on them; and just look what kind of disgusting animals some of them are: Ben Wallace saying Ron is his b!tch on and off the court? Wow, Ben gave a Pacer fan a "headband", do you understand this is all ploy so his image of a "good guy" comes out rather than a "bad guy" everyone has painted Ron Artest to be.

Anthem
12-26-2004, 10:12 PM
Rip acted his way into the flagrant call. I have to see it again to see if Fred went out of his way (like Ron did in the ECF) to hit him in the first place, rather than what could be seen more as a basketball play.

To me, it looked like Ron's. They were shoving back and forth for position, and Rip flopped at exactly the right time. Not that I have a problem with it, it was perfectly timed, which is a skill in itself. We should know, after watching Reggie for so long. And I certainly don't fault Freddy for it. But neither do I fault Ron.


Finally, this wasn't the end of an elination game in the ECF. But that last point is least important to me.

I think you're in the minority... most of the "Ron can't handle pressure" crap is directly linked to that one incident, which got a lot bigger in everyone's mind because it was at the very end of the last game of our season.

Anthem
12-26-2004, 10:19 PM
Does anyone have video of the Ron/Rip foul and the Freddy/Rip foul?

Hicks
12-26-2004, 10:38 PM
Does anyone have video of the Ron/Rip foul and the Freddy/Rip foul?
Not in front of me, but yeah I could put together a video clip of both.

Peck
12-26-2004, 10:39 PM
Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek.... I was just curious as to why nobody commented on the fact that Fred's "foul" on Rip was almost identical to Ron's "foul" on Rip. Artest has been crucified all summer and season for what Rip admitted was a flop. Why isn't anybody saying those things about Fred?[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure the reason that nobody is saying anything is because Fred has ZERO history of doing this.

Also Fred has never made the comment that as a game goes along if he doesn't have a foul that he has the right to make a HARD foul during the game. Like Ron said two seasons ago.

Fred has never tossed the gatorade container.

Fred has never argued with the coach of another team.

Fred has never etc., etc., etc.

Anthem
12-26-2004, 11:01 PM
I'm pretty sure the reason that nobody is saying anything is because Fred has ZERO history of doing this.

Also Fred has never made the comment that as a game goes along if he doesn't have a foul that he has the right to make a HARD foul during the game. Like Ron said two seasons ago.

Fred has never tossed the gatorade container.

Fred has never argued with the coach of another team.

Fred has never etc., etc., etc.

Oh, we all agree that those were stupid actions on Ron's part. But I think we can also agree that they're all a sign of immaturity and/or stupidity, but probably not signs of "not being able to handle the pressure."

Anthem
12-26-2004, 11:01 PM
Not in front of me, but yeah I could put together a video clip of both.

Sounds good. Show as much of the replay as possible, as long as it's close up.

You da man.

pb777
12-26-2004, 11:01 PM
I dont think Fred choked at all yesterday. If anything he waited too long to bring his a-game. If it's not for his 3 late in the 4th bringing us close we would not be talking about this bs flagerant foul. Rip did bait him and flop IMO. Anyway, I wish Fred would have turned it on sooner in the game instead of passing up all those open 3's.

Ragnar
12-26-2004, 11:32 PM
I am surprised that no one pointed out that it was less of an elbow than Rip gave Tinsley in the Nov game while Ben was shoving Ron into the goal. There was no flagrant called then why now?

Hicks
12-26-2004, 11:38 PM
I made this:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/fred_ron_flagrants.wmv (11.1MB)

Unclebuck
12-26-2004, 11:38 PM
*sigh*

I'm not even sure this is really UB anymore........he's been totally irrational over the last week or so.

I suppose he's right, as long as he admits Reggie is a "dirty player" too.....

UBG, is there any player left on the Pistons roster that you havent suddenly decided is "evil?"


Kstat, I need to explain my post. Last night I went into some detail on Rip Hamilton and his "dirty play"

As I posted last night Rip is a good dirty player in the John Stockton mold, and even a little in the Reggie Miller mold, although Rip just outright hits people. But the refs don't call it so more power to him.

Kstat I sat along the baseline very low to the court for the Christmas day game and saw some things from Rip that surprised me. Things you can't pick up on by watching on TV.

Kstat, I am laughing as I am posting this. I don't think Rip is evil. Maybe evilly good if there is such a phrase.

Have I been irrational, I hope not, I think I am the same guy, but I do hate losing.

Hicks
12-27-2004, 12:01 AM
I am surprised that no one pointed out that it was less of an elbow than Rip gave Tinsley in the Nov game while Ben was shoving Ron into the goal. There was no flagrant called then why now?
I wanted to know what you were talking about, so I actually went back and checked the video. Here it is:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/ron_hit.wmv (8.56MB)

I don't see what you're talking about.:confused:

If you can, can you tell me what time was roughly on the clock (within say 20 seconds) when it happens?

Hoop
12-27-2004, 01:18 AM
Reggie is a flopper and a damn good one, I won't deny that, but I don't recall Reggie ever elbowing people the way I've seen Rip do several times. I was at the Christmas game and was screaming bloody murder at a few of the cheap shots that were thrown by Rip. I find it amazing that all 3 refs missed them.

The more I see it, Ron's so called flagrant against Rip looks less and less like anything.

Hoop
12-27-2004, 01:21 AM
I wanted to know what you were talking about, so I actually went back and checked the video. Here it is:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/ron_hit.wmv (8.56MB)

I don't see what you're talking about.:confused:

If you can, can you tell me what time was roughly on the clock (within say 20 seconds) when it happens?I think it was the Pacer's possession after that, I deleted the game and all the brawl stuff off my TIVO, so I can't look to see for sure.

waterjater
12-27-2004, 02:49 AM
I think it was the Pacer's possession after that, I deleted the game and all the brawl stuff off my TIVO, so I can't look to see for sure.

It was the play or two before when Wallace shoved Artest into the basket support. HATE BEN WALLACE!!! and that's the nicest I can put it.

Water

King Mob
12-27-2004, 03:26 AM
I think he's referring the foul they called on Rip, maybe a minute or two before that clip. Tins was in the backcourt bringing the ball up, and Rip shoved him with a forearm. That's the best I can recall.

And at no point in the video Hicks posted does Ben "shove" Ron into the basket support, come on now. There was contact, but the way people here tell it, you'd think Ben suplexed him into the thing.

DisplacedKnick
12-27-2004, 08:25 AM
Reggie is a flopper and a damn good one, I won't deny that, but I don't recall Reggie ever elbowing people the way I've seen Rip do several times.

Reggie wasn't afraid to get in a cheap shot now and then when he thought he could get away with it.

I recall one time toward the end of a game where a player was crouched over the ball, protecting a narrow lead expecting a touch foul to send him to the line and Reggie shoved him with both hands to the face. He got called for it too which was a shock.

Not sure exactly when but I think that game was important ...

able
12-27-2004, 10:18 AM
Well the clip shows Rip grabbing Fred's arm and pulling it backwards while flopping, so yes, nowhere near a flagrant.
The Ron clip leaves out the next shot from the baseline, in which it becomes grosly clear that Ron did not intent to hit, did not hit and Rip should get an Emmy.

<shrug> hey he learned viewing the best in the game who happens to be on our team.

sixthman
12-27-2004, 11:59 AM
UBG, is there any player left on the Pistons roster that you havent suddenly decided is "evil?"

UB is way too nice. McDyess would be about the only one I can think of. Maybe The Project, too. :laugh:

I agree with Paul B that Freddie needs to bring his "A" game earlier in a crucial game. A missed shot is not a crime.

Besides Reggie, the guy I want taking a last shot is S Jack. He proved his toughness in the clutch while in San Antonio.

PacerFanInBayAreaCali
12-27-2004, 12:35 PM
I made this:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/fred_ron_flagrants.wmv (11.1MB)

Fred's looked more intentional than Ron's. In Ron's case it looks more like he was getting ready to put his hands up to deny Rip the ball and Rip turned around and started running. With Ron not expecting it he put his arms up (not having his eye on the ball and maybe thinking it was being thrown to Rip) and Rip ran into his elbow.

Fred's looked like retaliation. I doubt he just elbowed Rip for nothing. I'm sure something in that quarter happened that made him do what he did. But I think it was intentional.

EDIT: Ron didn't even "throw" his elbow, he just had it up.

Anthem
12-27-2004, 12:46 PM
I dunno... maybe I don't see what everybody else sees. I see a great acting job by Rip in both instances. I don't fault Freddy, and I don't fault Ron. I don't even fault Rip... more power to him. Like others have pointed out, we've benefitted from too many of those to really complain too much.

I just don't see what the vilification is about.

EDIT: By "vilification" I mean 'vilification of Ron Artest for "not being able to deal with pressure."'

McThugg
12-27-2004, 02:07 PM
if you watch the replays of the foul, just like last year in the playoffs with artest, hamilton gives a cheap shot to the groin just before the "flagrant" foul was commited. that being said i don't dislike rip but those are dirty plays

DisplacedKnick
12-27-2004, 02:48 PM
No way should Fred have been called for a flagrant - overreaction by the ref.

Artest's shot in the playoffs is another story - doesn't matter if it's inadvertant or not, it was a forearm to the throat - any time you get your arms up above the shoulders you're susceptible to that call - and since it was Ron it was a guarantee.

Been surprised nobody has mentioned this but I saw one that should have gone the other way Saturday. JO was guarding Rasheed in the post. He made a move which brought his forearm and elbow up and caught JO across the throat and side of the jaw. It was a no call and should have been an offensive foul - JO needs to learn to flop better - he almost went over as it was.

What the heck - I stand by my statement that NBA refs suck, most games are poorly called and you just have to learn to live with it - even when you say that while gritting your teeth. You just have to figure that it all balances out in the long run.

Ragnar
12-27-2004, 03:26 PM
I wanted to know what you were talking about, so I actually went back and checked the video. Here it is:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/ron_hit.wmv (8.56MB)

I don't see what you're talking about.

If you can, can you tell me what time was roughly on the clock (within say 20 seconds) when it happens?

It was on the play before Ron's hard foul on Ben. I dont have it so I dont know the time.

Hicks
12-27-2004, 03:36 PM
Is this it?

http://www.pacersdigest.com/rip_push.wmv

If so, can't say that's much...

Kstat
12-27-2004, 03:59 PM
No way should Fred have been called for a flagrant - overreaction by the ref.

Artest's shot in the playoffs is another story - doesn't matter if it's inadvertant or not, it was a forearm to the throat - any time you get your arms up above the shoulders you're susceptible to that call - and since it was Ron it was a guarantee.

Been surprised nobody has mentioned this but I saw one that should have gone the other way Saturday. JO was guarding Rasheed in the post. He made a move which brought his forearm and elbow up and caught JO across the throat and side of the jaw. It was a no call and should have been an offensive foul - JO needs to learn to flop better - he almost went over as it was.

What the heck - I stand by my statement that NBA refs suck, most games are poorly called and you just have to learn to live with it - even when you say that while gritting your teeth. You just have to figure that it all balances out in the long run.


That said, it should ahve been called an intentional off-the-ball foul, which inside of 2 minutes is 1 FT plus posession. SO all the flagrant did was cost 1 extra point.

Kstat
12-27-2004, 04:00 PM
Is this it?

http://www.pacersdigest.com/rip_push.wmv

If so, can't say that's much...

:o :o :o

Wow, how did Ron stay in one piece? I'm suprised there wasn't some kind of criminal investigation....WOW, what a hachet-job!

;)

Unclebuck
12-27-2004, 04:13 PM
Kstat you have to understand Pacers fans are hypersentitive during any Pacers v Pistons game. Pistons won the ECF last season and then you add in the 11/19 incident, and you have to know we are a little on edge when anything involves the Pistons. Just watching a game that is played at the Palace gets my blood boiling.

Not sure you or other Piston fans fully understand what we are going through

Alabama-Redneck
12-27-2004, 04:58 PM
:o :o :o

Wow, how did Ron stay in one piece? I'm suprised there wasn't some kind of criminal investigation....WOW, what a hachet-job!

;)

Spoken like a typical "Piston" fan. No wonder you and the other "Piston" fans on this board are disliked. A lot of people have stood up for you, myself included, and now I am getting to the point I wish you and your buddies would just stay on your own board.

I know there is very little "intelligent' basketball talk there but quit trying to bring this board down to that level.:mad:

Unclebuck
12-27-2004, 05:11 PM
For the record, Kstat is one of my favorite posters in this forum.

Kstat
12-27-2004, 05:37 PM
Spoken like a typical "Piston" fan. No wonder you and the other "Piston" fans on this board are disliked. A lot of people have stood up for you, myself included, and now I am getting to the point I wish you and your buddies would just stay on your own board.

I know there is very little "intelligent' basketball talk there but quit trying to bring this board down to that level.:mad:


sorry redneck, but when BS is being shoveled my way, rest assured I'm going to shovel it back. And that was blatent BS.

This is escelating to the level where there is going to be "Ben Wallace is a Nazi" flashbacks, and since noby else is going to stand up for him, may as well be me.

I'm proud to be a Pistons fan, whatever you think of them is irrelevant.

Alabama-Redneck
12-27-2004, 06:04 PM
sorry redneck, but when BS is being shoveled my way, rest assured I'm going to shovel it back. And that was blatent BS.

I'm proud to be a Pistons fan,whatever you think of them is irrelevant .
I am proud to be a Pacer fan but I also respect people enough to not constantly disrespect their feeling and opinions when I am in "their house".

I really think you should step back and look at what is going on. Do you really think there are going to be unbiased opinions toward the Pacers and Pistons on the Pacer Forum?

Your last statement "whatever you think of them is irrelevant" is so typical of you and your attitude. Someday you may growup and understand what I am saying and if you don't, I feel sorry for you.

:cool:

Ragnar
12-27-2004, 06:10 PM
Is this it?

http://www.pacersdigest.com/rip_push.wmv

If so, can't say that's much...
No that was not it. It was on the other end of the floor right after the Pacers scored.

Hicks
12-27-2004, 06:11 PM
Just before that clip is Ron dunking the ball on a breakaway; Tinsley's not getting pushed there either.

Alabama-Redneck
12-27-2004, 06:13 PM
For the record, Kstat is one of my favorite posters in this forum.
Unclebuck, I too respect Kstat's knowledge of basketball. It's his attitude that "riles" me up. He reminds me of someone from the northeast coast and I have spent too much time with people from there. :rolleyes:

To each his own.

:cool:

ABADays
12-27-2004, 06:28 PM
"Ben Wallace is a Nazi"
Now I've had it! A direct quote and revelation from a Piston fan no less. I had my suspicions . . . it was the hair. We just can't have this. I'm sending this to the league ofice.

King Mob
12-27-2004, 08:13 PM
Hicks, the play is prior to the 1:45 mark in the 4th, maybe a minute or two. I can tell that much, since I have the video from everything after that point still. It was right after a score, can't remember if it was Pistons or Pacers, but Rip is running past Tinsley, knocks him down with a forearm and is called for the foul.

PacerMan
12-27-2004, 09:18 PM
Spoken like a typical "Piston" fan. No wonder you and the other "Piston" fans on this board are disliked. A lot of people have stood up for you, myself included, and now I am getting to the point I wish you and your buddies would just stay on your own board.

I know there is very little "intelligent' basketball talk there but quit trying to bring this board down to that level.:mad:

Well said.

Ragnar
12-27-2004, 10:50 PM
Its been too long for me to remember exactly when in the game it happened. My point is that Rips foul was in reality far harder than Jones foul. Both were not necessary.

DisplacedKnick
12-27-2004, 11:29 PM
Now I've had it! A direct quote and revelation from a Piston fan no less. I had my suspicions . . . it was the hair. We just can't have this. I'm sending this to the league ofice.

:o :o :o

A black Nazi ... (that's worth three "eeks" isn't it?)

Not only has Ben Wallace gone over to the dark side but he's changed the entire order of things. Won't those White Supremacists get a surprise!

What's next? Billy Bob Joe Ben McCoy as Conductor of the Boston Symphony Orchestra? George Bush at a tofu party? Ellen Degeneres doing the horizontal hokey-pokey with George Clooney?

I think this thread has degenerated beyond any hope of rehabilitation.

DisplacedKnick
12-27-2004, 11:32 PM
I am proud to be a Pacer fan but I also respect people enough to not constantly disrespect their feeling and opinions when I am in "their house".

I really think you should step back and look at what is going on. Do you really think there are going to be unbiased opinions toward the Pacers and Pistons on the Pacer Forum?

Your last statement "whatever you think of them is irrelevant" is so typical of you and your attitude. Someday you may growup and understand what I am saying and if you don't, I feel sorry for you.

:cool:

You mean you don't like him calling people out when they try to re-write history?

There's been plenty of banging of bodies in any Pacers-Pistons game over the past year and a half - anybody can take any 5 minute segment of any game and make it out like hari-kari's been committed on someone.

Kstat
12-27-2004, 11:33 PM
You mean you don't like him calling people out when they try to re-write history?

There's been plenty of banging of bodies in any Pacers-Pistons game over the past year and a half - anybody can take any 5 minute segment of any game and make it out like hari-kari's been committed on someone.

Thank you.

Anthem
12-28-2004, 12:06 AM
The point wasn't that any of Detroit's players are terrible people... it's that Rip is very effective with that flop. Like I said, we've benefitted from too many of those to really complain too much.

dannyboy
12-28-2004, 02:02 PM
Is this it?

http://www.pacersdigest.com/rip_push.wmv

If so, can't say that's much...

From the Bill Simmons article on the brawl:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/cowbell/041122

5. If you watch the game -- which has already earned coveted "Save until I delete" status on my TiVo, by the way -- two plays led to Artest's hard foul. With 6:43 remaining, Rip Hamilton threw a cheapshot elbow into Jamaal Tinsley's back after a defensive rebound (they called a foul as the Pacers bench erupted). That could have been a flagrant since it looked like Hamilton went out of his way to belt him. And with 1:25 remaining, down by 11 points, Wallace knocked Artest into the basket support while blocking his layup -- from the camera angle, you can't tell if it's a foul or not. So if you're playing the "Why was Artest fouling Wallace with such a big lead?" card, the play wasn't much different than Wallace's block. He just got more of a piece of him.

Alabama-Redneck
12-28-2004, 02:12 PM
You mean you don't like him calling people out when they try to re-write history?

.
I have no problem with as you call it" calling people out when they try to re-write history" but I don't think every view against the Pistons is always re-writting history and I have not seen a anti-piston view yet that was not challenged by one of the Piston fans.

:(

Hicks
12-28-2004, 03:00 PM
From the Bill Simmons article on the brawl:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/cowbell/041122

5. If you watch the game -- which has already earned coveted "Save until I delete" status on my TiVo, by the way -- two plays led to Artest's hard foul. With 6:43 remaining, Rip Hamilton threw a cheapshot elbow into Jamaal Tinsley's back after a defensive rebound (they called a foul as the Pacers bench erupted). That could have been a flagrant since it looked like Hamilton went out of his way to belt him. And with 1:25 remaining, down by 11 points, Wallace knocked Artest into the basket support while blocking his layup -- from the camera angle, you can't tell if it's a foul or not. So if you're playing the "Why was Artest fouling Wallace with such a big lead?" card, the play wasn't much different than Wallace's block. He just got more of a piece of him.
Good catch. I'll put that together in a little bit and post it.

Hicks
12-28-2004, 03:24 PM
Finally have the right clip. That was *******-ish of Rip; totally unnecessary. He's on D, and does this 80 feet from the basket.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/ripelbow.wmv

Peck
12-28-2004, 03:32 PM
Hmmmm.....

I hadn't noticed that from before. That was no accident, he went out of his way to hit Jamaal.

Who would the leage least expect on our team to cheap shot Rip next game? God how I wish we had Dale Davis back, Rip would find himself picked into the future.

I've never really paid much attention to Rip before but now with Buck saying he is a dirty player & with this video I have to start wondering.

John Stockton was a good hard physical player who was not above doing a hard back door pick, but what Rip did was not that. He didn't hurt Jamaal but the message was all the same.

DisplacedKnick
12-28-2004, 03:35 PM
Definitely a cheap shot.

Where are the enforcers - the DD's, Oak's, Mo Lucases of the league?

Can't think of a single player who fits that bill today (DD in G-S doesn't cut it).

Anthem
12-28-2004, 03:43 PM
Where are the enforcers - the DD's, Oak's, Mo Lucases of the league?

The league doesn't like them... shame really.

able
12-28-2004, 03:48 PM
The more I see from this RiP charachter the more I think that he will meet with some serious trouble on the court or perhaps worse, a serious injury.

There's only so much other players will take, and he might be resilient, but I fear he better wear more protection then that mask to make sure he stays in one piece.

One day people like this push the wrong person and end up in a bad way.

Not that I'm hoping for it, just reality, there's enough punks out there that will retaliate

Mushmouth
12-28-2004, 04:53 PM
Rip is a huge B*tch

Los Angeles
12-28-2004, 05:01 PM
The more I see from this RiP charachter the more I think that he will meet with some serious trouble on the court or perhaps worse, a serious injury.

There's only so much other players will take, and he might be resilient, but I fear he better wear more protection then that mask to make sure he stays in one piece.

One day people like this push the wrong person and end up in a bad way.

Not that I'm hoping for it, just reality, there's enough punks out there that will retaliateHmmm...

I remember hearing exacly this about ten years ago. It was from a Bulls fan talking about Reggie Miller.

Reggie's dramatic flailing and long carreer suggest to me that resilience has little to do with behavior. Some guys are lucky enough to have long careers and others are not.

For some reason, I think that if Rip were in a pacer uniform, we wouldn't mind his salesmanship nearly as much.

Hicks
12-28-2004, 05:27 PM
Reggie flops when he gets hit. Rip is elbowing somebody.

King Mob
12-28-2004, 05:33 PM
Reggie's never hit anybody.

Kstat
12-28-2004, 05:39 PM
Reggie's never hit anybody.

Yeah, its not as if he's ever punched, tripped, shoved, or head-butted anybody........

Hicks
12-28-2004, 05:44 PM
Piston fans can't seem to defend their players, they can only attack someone else's in retaliation.

And head-butted? I've seen someone head-butt HIM before...

Los Angeles
12-28-2004, 05:45 PM
Reggie flops when he gets hit. Rip is elbowing somebody.No offense, but Reggie has flopped when he wasn't hit too. They don't call him a great actor for nothing. He earned his reputation.

I should have clarified and said that I was referring to the way Rip acts after he's "hit", not the situations when he's doing the hitting.

The elbow to Tins was awful, and I can't think of Reggie ever going that far. But it's been 18 years and we'd need a 12-man research crew to go through every inch of tape in the archives to be absolutely certain. :shrug:

Hicks
12-28-2004, 05:47 PM
No offense, but Reggie has flopped when he wasn't hit too. They don't call him a great actor for nothing. He earned his reputation.
I know, that wasn't my point. My point was Reggie isn't DOING the hitting. And while I'm sure he's done that some over 18 years, it's certainly not his reputation. His rep. is flopping, not hitting.


The elbow to Tins was awful, and I can't think of Reggie ever going that far. But it's been 18 years and we'd need a 12-man research crew to go through every inch of tape in the archives to be absolutely certain. :shrug:
Right, and even if we found it, it doesn't excuse Rip 1 bit, but Piston fans want to act like it does just so they can "get back" at us.

DisplacedKnick
12-28-2004, 06:04 PM
One of these days "some big sum*****" will remind Rip that he's little and Ben can't protect him forever.

If he ever does it to Wade - well, I get the feeling that Shaq's fond of the little fella.

able
12-28-2004, 11:56 PM
:rotflmao:

sure he's gonna be someone's ***** soon, very sure.... :D

Alabama-Redneck
12-29-2004, 12:30 AM
One of these days "some big sum*****" will remind Rip that he's little and Ben can't protect him forever.

If he ever does it to Wade - well, I get the feeling that Shaq's fond of the little fella.
I'm sure nothing would happen because Shaq is afraid of what "Big Ben" might do to him. :rolleyes: :D