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View Full Version : Pulse of the fan base 3/2/13: Do you like Danny Granger?



Hicks
03-02-2013, 10:19 AM
Simple question. Do you like Granger, or do you not like Granger? I appreciate that there is nuance to answering a question like this but ultimately I think it's unlikely that anyone is truly absolutely neutral on this, so pick one.

cgg
03-02-2013, 10:20 AM
All hail Danny

idioteque
03-02-2013, 10:27 AM
Danny was our best player during some really rough years and is still an integral part of our core.

I think Pacer fans owe Danny a lot. He played for years for a small-market team with questionable coaching that was trying to rebuild without sucking, so it wasn't even like we had the chance of bringing in someone hyped like Kyrie Irving or John Wall during the lean years. A lot of players would have been a pain in the *** or given up, but Danny played through it and was affable along the way. Good guy and will always be one of my favorite Pacers. I would say right now in terms of memory of Pacer fans, he will end up being remembered not as one of the absolute best, but in that second tier of really talented Pacers. He will be a more popular player in Pacers lore than JO when it is said and done. May be a top ten NBA-era Pacer in terms of talent, would have to think about it but my inclination is he is.

yoadknux
03-02-2013, 10:33 AM
My fav Pacer. His popularity went down among our fans because he didn't turn into the franchise player people hoped he would be, because George is playing on his spot and starting to emerge and because we're pretty much a good team this season even without him.

I remember how in his MIP year people treated him like George is treated right now. I guess people got short memory.

OlBlu
03-02-2013, 10:38 AM
Simple question. Do you like Granger, or do you not like Granger? I appreciate that there is nuance to answering a question like this but ultimately I think it's unlikely that anyone is truly absolutely neutral on this, so pick one.

It is not as simple as that but since you made it that way, I voted that I liked him. That does not mean that I don't see his limitations and short comings. I also think that he has already been replaced and some people just aren't willing to accept that. :cool: ...

idioteque
03-02-2013, 10:40 AM
I always get irritated when people are angry that Danny isn't a superstar, there are 5-10 superstars in the entire league at any time, they're pretty rare folks.

BornReady
03-02-2013, 10:42 AM
I love Danny. He's been completely loyal through the good and the bad. I hope he stays in Indy his whole career.

Ace E.Anderson
03-02-2013, 10:54 AM
I always get irritated when people are angry that Danny isn't a superstar, there are 5-10 superstars in the entire league at any time, they're pretty rare folks.

Who knew that 18-20 PPG was a disappointment. Outside of the superstars, only about 10 players can do that annually.

Even PG who some think is a superstar, has yet to do that. Which isn't a knock on PG and his great all around game, but it shows that it's not simple to put up those types of scoring numbers consistently.

Even with his shot being off this far, and the fact that he's getting into shape, DG is already one of our better scorers and may already be the best at drawing fouls. He's for sure under appreciated for what he is simply bc he's not a superstar

15th parallel
03-02-2013, 11:06 AM
I love Danny Granger. He's probably my 2nd favorite (1st will always be Reggie). A true professional in a league plagued by unprofessional players (ex. D. Howard). A player who stuck with the Pacers through thick and thin, and never wavered after floods of trade rumors every single year. A tough guy that comes back strong after injuries and never quits. A guy that follows the coach whether he's a good one or a bad one. An unselfish guy who never minds sharing the spotlight, or give them totally to his teammates. Has always been the supportive player and a player that just wants to win regardless of who's the hero. A true leader in a sense of being the big brother to the young guys. And a high character guy on and off the court, has never been a shame to the franchise, and have been there for the fans, Pacers employees, and to the Indiana community.

Out of the 2005 draft pick he's easily one of the best 5 players right now. And right now he's probably the 3rd best player on that draft, with CP3 and DWill as your top 2. Bogut is too unhealthy to even do something in the Bucks and right in the Warriors, and as for Bynum, there's flashes of a great center there. But most of his years weren't as good as Danny's numbers, his 2 finals appearances he wasn't a big factor, and his only remarkable season was last year because that's the only year he's healthy, where he's basically looking to oust Dwight as the best center in the league.

Steagles
03-02-2013, 11:07 AM
Well this is a resounding yes, until the two (we all know who I'm talking about) users see the poll.

Sollozzo
03-02-2013, 11:10 AM
Of course I like Danny Granger. He has always represented our franchise with complete class, and by all accounts is an excellent teammate. I certainly feel bad for him in that his physical prime coincided with the years that our rosters were complete garbage.

That being said, I'm well aware of the harsh realities of the NBA. We've already invested quite a bit of money into Roy Hibbert and George Hill. Roy Hibbert is the anchor of our defense, and George Hill is a clutch young point guard who happens to be the best Pacer at the position since Mark Jackson. Both are young and aren't going anywhere. Virtually everyone agrees that we have to keep David West if we want to remain being one of the best teams in the NBA. We're obviously going to have to give Paul George a big payday down the line. Roy, West, George Hill, and PG all bring something unique to the table, but Danny was essentially replaced by PG this year. The simple fact is that we likely aren't going to have enough money for Granger if he is commanding a big payday. If Danny goes out and plays really well next year and stays healthy, then it's almost guaranteed that another team will dangle some money in front of him.

Some here might think that Danny will give the Pacers a big financial break out of "loyalty", but I don't believe that for a second. I remember last year when people were saying that Roy would give the Pacers a hometown discount because Roy was such a great guy and was so grateful for the Pacers. We all saw how that worked out. He would have been perfectly content in Portland if the Pacers didn't match. With Granger, this will likely be the last big payday of his career. An athlete can be happy anywhere with the money they make. If Danny is like any other athlete, then he'll go where the most money is, as he should. As history has shown, athletes always chase money, yet fans still always hold out hope that their guy is special and will give their team a discount out of the goodness of their heart. Albert Puljos won two championships with the Cardinals and could have gone down as the greatest Cardinal of all time, yet bolted in a heartbeat because there was more money somewhere else. The bottom line is that I think the only way Granger is here beyond 2014 is if he doesn't play well enough next year to command big money from someone else.

CJ Jones
03-02-2013, 11:10 AM
Danny's cool. Don't like the way he plays the game tho. Not like he can help it or anything

15th parallel
03-02-2013, 11:29 AM
Danny's cool. Don't like the way he plays the game tho. Not like he can help it or anything

I think his play adjust to the coach and to his teammates. He was looking like a defensive stud under Rick. He became a 3pt specialist (and practically played perimeter offense) under JOB. Then with Vogel he was practically an all-arounder on both ends of the court.

idioteque
03-02-2013, 11:33 AM
Of course I like Danny Granger. He has always represented our franchise with complete class, and by all accounts is an excellent teammate. I certainly feel bad for him in that his physical prime coincided with the years that our rosters were complete garbage.

That being said, I'm well aware of the harsh realities of the NBA. We've already invested quite a bit of money into Roy Hibbert and George Hill. Roy Hibbert is the anchor of our defense, and George Hill is a clutch young point guard who happens to be the best Pacer at the position since Mark Jackson. Both are young and aren't going anywhere. Virtually everyone agrees that we have to keep David West if we want to remain being one of the best teams in the NBA. We're obviously going to have to give Paul George a big payday down the line. Roy, West, George Hill, and PG all bring something unique to the table, but Danny was essentially replaced by PG this year. The simple fact is that we likely aren't going to have enough money for Granger if he is commanding a big payday. If Danny goes out and plays really well next year and stays healthy, then it's almost guaranteed that another team will dangle some money in front of him.

Some here might think that Danny will give the Pacers a big financial break out of "loyalty", but I don't believe that for a second. I remember last year when people were saying that Roy would give the Pacers a hometown discount because Roy was such a great guy and was so grateful for the Pacers. We all saw how that worked out. He would have been perfectly content in Portland if the Pacers didn't match. With Granger, this will likely be the last big payday of his career. An athlete can be happy anywhere with the money they make. If Danny is like any other athlete, then he'll go where the most money is, as he should. As history has shown, athletes always chase money, yet fans still always hold out hope that their guy is special and will give their team a discount out of the goodness of their heart. Albert Puljos won two championships with the Cardinals and could have gone down as the greatest Cardinal of all time, yet bolted in a heartbeat because there was more money somewhere else. The bottom line is that I think the only way Granger is here beyond 2014 is if he doesn't play well enough next year to command big money from someone else.

Yeah, and we have to remember the implications of Danny's next deal from his own perspective: it will in all likelihood be the last multi-year, big dollar contract he gets in the NBA. In other words, the next 4-5 years will be the most important in Danny's life financially. He is going to want the most money he can get and I don't blame him. Say Danny has a good year next year and gets 4/40 or something like that. He'll be 34 and declining with a lot of miles on those knees when the contract is up and he'll probably play out the rest of his NBA years on contracts like Dunleavy has now.

If/when Danny leaves, I hope Pacers fans understand his situation. Yes we are talking about millions of dollars here, but these guys pay a boatload of money in taxes and agent fees. Danny will retire rich but not wealthy.

BlueNGold
03-02-2013, 11:38 AM
He's great. I like him a lot more now that he's shown a willingness to hand over the baton. I do consider Granger a very good NBA player and I'm glad he's a Pacer.

I thought for some time we should trade him when his value was high. Now that his knee is questionable, his value is much lower. Yet keeping him may have been the right decision. I did not think this team would be this capable this early of competing for a title.

In any event, Danny is a good egg. He's a great team mate.

billbradley
03-02-2013, 12:23 PM
Should I have voted no because I love Danny Granger?

rock747
03-02-2013, 01:04 PM
It's unanimous

dohman
03-02-2013, 01:18 PM
Danny got me through some rough times in pacers basketball. Wen all your friends think your crazy for watching a team that has players like mike d and Murphy as thier 2nd and 3rd options he was always our light at the end of the tunnel. I am happy he finally has a real team to play with and can enjoy winning.

PacersRule
03-02-2013, 01:19 PM
Of all the players who we associate with the pacers, Danny is the only one who I've watched starting from his rookie season. This might sound ridiculous, but though I really like Jermaine Oneal and Reggie, Danny is probably my favorite pacer all time (although I started watching the Pacers during mid 1990s, I didn't really understand the game until reggie's last few years, which was when Danny was a rookie).

Sollozzo
03-02-2013, 01:22 PM
Of all the players who we associate with the pacers, Danny is the only one who I've watched starting from his rookie season. This might sound ridiculous, but though I really like Jermaine Oneal and Reggie, Danny is probably my favorite pacer all time (although I started watching the Pacers during mid 1990s, I didn't really understand the game until reggie's last few years, which was when Danny was a rookie).

Danny was a rookie in 2005-06, which was the first season without Reggie.

Sandman21
03-02-2013, 01:24 PM
Dale?

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d38/Iu2002/DaleDavisYes_zpse84f70f7.jpg

Dece
03-02-2013, 01:27 PM
I'm not sure I understand the question. I've never been particularly high on Granger's game. I prefer my tall/strong swing man to be able to finish powerfully at the rim, and that's never been his game. I also have at times questioned his commitment to defense and he has shot us out of many games. I also really disliked the narrative that he was stepping back last year, when reality was he was chucking as much as ever and connecting at an embarrassing low rate for the majority of the season.

That doesn't mean I haven't appreciated the fact that he's been a very good player in the past, even with his limitations.

Jose31917
03-02-2013, 01:29 PM
Yes he is my favorite Pacer. And I hope he can stay a Pacer for the remainder of his career. :)

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

boombaby1987
03-02-2013, 01:34 PM
Thought it was gonna be croz, but it's Dece.

Day-V
03-02-2013, 01:39 PM
Thought it was gonna be a certain Monta Ellis fan...

vnzla81
03-02-2013, 02:38 PM
I like Danny the person, I'm not a huge Danny the player fan, he plays D when he wants to and takes a lot of bad shots(even this year).

What I hate is the Danny Granger fanboys, they act like Danny is the best thing that happen to the Pacers since the franchise open, talking about trading Danny or keeping on the bench is frown upon and the fan boys would attack whoever says anything about those two issues.

vnzla81
03-02-2013, 02:51 PM
Thought it was gonna be a certain Monta Ellis fan...

Yes I'm a Monta fan but I see that you missed my point(like always), I wanted to trade Danny for Monta(or a good package) because I expected(like a bunch of NBA teams) that his knees were not going to stay healthy.

I guess that some people don't learn their lesson after seen what happened to Suckleavy, JO, Foster and others...

Ace E.Anderson
03-02-2013, 03:25 PM
I like Danny the person, I'm not a huge Danny the player fan, he plays D when he wants to and takes a lot of bad shots(even this year).

What I hate is the Danny Granger fanboys, they act like Danny is the best thing that happen to the Pacers since the franchise open, talking about trading Danny or keeping on the bench is frown upon and the fan boys would attack whoever says anything about those two issues.

See the thing I don't get is why guys like Paul George and Lance get a pass for poor shot selection, but Danny is like this chucker who shoots it everytime he gets the rock. Danny's game is the mid range J, either off the bounce or out of the post. His shooting percentages in his WORST yr are comparable to PG's this yr(and Danny even averages more points) yet he's criticized for poor shot selection?

Ace E.Anderson
03-02-2013, 03:27 PM
I'm not sure I understand the question. I've never been particularly high on Granger's game. I prefer my tall/strong swing man to be able to finish powerfully at the rim, and that's never been his game. I also have at times questioned his commitment to defense and he has shot us out of many games. I also really disliked the narrative that he was stepping back last year, when reality was he was chucking as much as ever and connecting at an embarrassing low rate for the majority of the season.

That doesn't mean I haven't appreciated the fact that he's been a very good player in the past, even with his limitations.

15fga a game is far from chucking more than ever.

Cousy47
03-02-2013, 03:36 PM
Having earlier stated that Danny is my 2nd favorite NM Lobo, and his stock has continued to grow with me, I suppose my vote is not in question. Danny stayed with the Pacers after being an All Star, even taking less money than the open market would maybe have given him. If he is healthy next year, I doubt he will give much discount on his last long term contract and will leave the Ps. I would like to see us retire him as a Pacer when he is ready to go.

BlueNGold
03-02-2013, 03:38 PM
See the thing I don't get is why guys like Paul George and Lance get a pass for poor shot selection, but Danny is like this chucker who shoots it everytime he gets the rock. Danny's game is the mid range J, either off the bounce or out of the post. His shooting percentages in his WORST yr are comparable to PG's this yr(and Danny even averages more points) yet he's criticized for poor shot selection?

I don't think Danny is a chucker. The knock on Danny is that his FG% has continued to drop each and every year since 2008-2009. Combine that with the fact he has been, at best, an average defender...well, that's the issue. I do think he stepped up his D last year, so props on that. But he's not on the same planet with Paul George in that department. Danny is not far removed from being an average NBA defender...even today.

Sparhawk
03-02-2013, 03:59 PM
Of course I like DG33. But would I be sad if he was traded for pieces/pick that could ultimately help this team financially and player wise, then no. Would I be sad if he's not traded. Absolutely not.

AesopRockOn
03-02-2013, 04:00 PM
Reggie sucked me into the Pacers franchise, and Danny wouldn't let me leave.

AesopRockOn
03-02-2013, 04:08 PM
What I hate is the Danny Granger fanboys, they act like Danny is the best thing that happen to the Pacers since the franchise open, talking about trading Danny or keeping on the bench is frown upon and the fan boys would attack whoever says anything about those two issues.

There's a bit of a difference between someone having their objectivity slightly disabled (due to not wanting to see someone they've become attached to leave) and thinking said person is the best thing to even happen to the franchise. Has the term 'fan boy' ever elicited a positive reaction from anyone?

I think you can acknowledge Danny's shortcomings while also feeling the effects of his potential departure. There is some middle ground (i.e. this is not the game of thrones).

rexnom
03-02-2013, 04:10 PM
This is such a weird question. Two options? The answers are uninformative. I like everyone on the Pacers.

daschysta
03-02-2013, 04:15 PM
Of course, he gave us his best years when the team wasn't up to snuff outside of himself. He's still a very high level player and should perform admirably now that he has 2-3 other players on the team that are as good or better than himself. I've been encouraged by the last two games, I thought he would be rusty for a little bit longer, and his defense on Rudy Gay last night, especially in the post, is a microcosm of what he can bring on that end of the floor in addition to what we all know he can bring in the scoring department.

Steagles
03-02-2013, 05:02 PM
I thought it would've been Croz and Vnzla. However, now I am enlightened as to why Vnzla wanted Monta. The more you know.

Peck
03-02-2013, 05:33 PM
Honestly I believe that if the 2005 draft could be done over again it would be as follows.

1. Chris Paul
2. Deron Williams
3. Danny Granger
4. David Lee
5. Monta Ellis

Obviously drafting is equal parts art & science and frankly I have come to the conclusion that the people making the decisions for us are very good at their jobs.

Now you can make an argument that Lee now would be over Granger but I think career wise Danny has been better long term but he is aging more rapidly than Lee.

Either way sure is a far cry from the 17th pick where we got him and really he is only behind two of the greatest point guards to play in this day and age.

Don’t think that Toronto wouldn’t like to go back and have a do over with picking Joey Graham at 16? Or Minnesota taking Rashard McCants at 14? Or the Warriors taking Ike Diogu at 9?

Between Danny being a top 3 IMO but no more than top 5 by almost anyone’s account in that draft and Roy being a top 10 player and for all intents and purposes Paul being a top 2 if not the number 1 player for him draft its no wonder our team is in the condition it is in. Wise drafting goes so much further than tanking that it’s almost comical.

I am not ashamed to admit that I am a Danny Granger fan. For every reason that has ever been listed before and for that article that told me that Danny is gracefully accepting that he is now entering the sunset of his career, even if it is a few years away.

I just want to enjoy the time we have left together whether it be the rest of this season or for seasons to come (I hope the latter honestly) and I just no longer want to care about the rivalry between Danny & Paul because it only exists on the internet where people need to conflict with one another.

Peck
03-02-2013, 05:40 PM
I like Danny the person, I'm not a huge Danny the player fan, he plays D when he wants to and takes a lot of bad shots(even this year).

What I hate is the Danny Granger fanboys, they act like Danny is the best thing that happen to the Pacers since the franchise open, talking about trading Danny or keeping on the bench is frown upon and the fan boys would attack whoever says anything about those two issues.

I know we have talked about this before but in all honesty who besides the one poster on here would you consider to be this way? I would hope that after all of this time you know that while I love Granger I am more than willing to concede that he has faults and does not fall into the superstar category. I'm not like Olblu in the fact that I have a slightly lower standard for what is a star in the NBA so in my definition Danny fits the star category but I understand where he is coming from and respect that he has a very high standard for what is a star and he seems to be consistent about that so I have no complaint there.

I hope you don't mistake someone defending Danny against attacks as being a love struck fan boy.

Ace E.Anderson
03-02-2013, 05:49 PM
I don't think Danny is a chucker. The knock on Danny is that his FG% has continued to drop each and every year since 2008-2009. Combine that with the fact he has been, at best, an average defender...well, that's the issue. I do think he stepped up his D last year, so props on that. But he's not on the same planet with Paul George in that department. Danny is not far removed from being an average NBA defender...even today.

I agree with this 100%. My argument wasnt that Danny is better, bc he's not at all. I was talking merely in FGA and shot selection.

Dece
03-02-2013, 05:52 PM
15fga a game is far from chucking more than ever.

"As much as," is a phrase meaning equivalence, not an increase as your phrase MORE THAN would indicate. Essentially you are quoting me and disagreeing with a statement I didn't make. Half the reason I barely post here is people seem to be unable to read without taking things in a direction they don't mean.

Danny Granger shots per game 2010-2011 season: 15.9
Danny Granger shots per game 2011-2012 season: 15.2

He shot the ball basically the same number of times per game, and yet the narrative on this board all season long was how gracefully he's taken a step back to give more shots to the additions of West and Hill. Clearly that narrative was not based in any statistical reality, making my statement correct -- unless you really believe .7 shots a game is a meaningful step back.

Anyway, Danny Granger has been a very good basketball player here. He hasn't been exactly what I'd choose out of a small forward of his talent level, but he's been good. Far better than anyone should expect out of a mid first round pick. I'm sorry preferring someone with more finishing ability, better shot selection, and a larger commitment to defense makes me that guy, but I don't feel my position is unreasonable. Like I said, I appreciate what he's done here, but I don't prefer his style or the fabricated narratives. Don't make my statements into something they aren't.

Ace E.Anderson
03-02-2013, 06:03 PM
"As much as," is a phrase meaning equivalence, not an increase as your phrase MORE THAN would indicate. Essentially you are quoting me and disagreeing with a statement I didn't make. Half the reason I barely post here is people seem to be unable to read without taking things in a direction they don't mean.

Danny Granger shots per game 2010-2011 season: 15.9
Danny Granger shots per game 2011-2012 season: 15.2

He shot the ball basically the same number of times per game, and yet the narrative on this board all season long was how gracefully he's taken a step back to give more shots to the additions of West and Hill. Clearly that narrative was not based in any statistical reality, making my statement correct -- unless you really believe .7 shots a game is a meaningful step back.

Anyway, Danny Granger has been a very good basketball player here. He hasn't been exactly what I'd choose out of a small forward of his talent level, but he's been good. Far better than anyone should expect out of a mid first round pick. I'm sorry preferring someone with more finishing ability, better shot selection, and a larger commitment to defense makes me that guy, but I don't feel my position is unreasonable. Like I said, I appreciate what he's done here, but I don't prefer his style or the fabricated narratives. Don't make my statements into something they aren't.

"As much as ever" is technically false...by about .7 FGA/gm..lol if you wanna look at it factually lol.

But seriously, i simply misread your statement. And I can appreciate your point of view on Danny. You think he should be better while I feel he pretty much maxed out his abilities (ability not effort) for someone that didnt exactly hit the genetic lottery.

But I wasn't trying to twist anything, just disagreed

Strummer
03-02-2013, 06:21 PM
talking about trading Danny or keeping on the bench is frown upon and the fan boys would attack whoever says anything about those two issues.

It's not the idea of trading Danny that is frowned upon. That's an interesting discussion and it's great to hear everyone's opinion on it. But once we've heard the opinions, it's not interesting to hear them again and again and again from the same people in multiple threads. Then it becomes something other than expressing an opinion.

Dece
03-02-2013, 06:42 PM
"As much as ever" is technically false...by about .7 FGA/gm..lol if you wanna look at it factually lol.

But seriously, i simply misread your statement. And I can appreciate your point of view on Danny. You think he should be better while I feel he pretty much maxed out his abilities (ability not effort) for someone that didnt exactly hit the genetic lottery.

But I wasn't trying to twist anything, just disagreed


Yea, sorry. I might be over defensive here at this point. I don't think he should be better, for the record, I think he's surpassed anything we should have expected of him. I do think he should shoot less and shoot only better looks...and bring it on the defensive end.

Coopdog23
03-02-2013, 07:13 PM
A few years ago, it seemed like he would just shoot the ball and not play defense or play hard in general. Now he plays hard every play

vnzla81
03-02-2013, 07:18 PM
I know we have talked about this before but in all honesty who besides the one poster on here would you consider to be this way?

Not going to name people but I'm pretty sure that is more than one poster.


I would hope that after all of this time you know that while I love Granger I am more than willing to concede that he has faults and does not fall into the superstar category. I'm not like Olblu in the fact that I have a slightly lower standard for what is a star in the NBA so in my definition Danny fits the star category but I understand where he is coming from and respect that he has a very high standard for what is a star and he seems to be consistent about that so I have no complaint there.

I know you don't think he is a superstar but you still think he is an star and when somebody think otherwise you think people are trashing Danny and hate him.


I hope you don't mistake someone defending Danny against attacks as being a love struck fan boy.

The thing is that nobody(other than croz) is attacking Danny, you people (see what I'm doing here? ;)) are the ones that get all defensive when in reality nobody is trashing or hating on the guy.

Peck
03-02-2013, 07:36 PM
A few years ago, it seemed like he would just shoot the ball and not play defense or play hard in general. Now he plays hard every play

I hate to say it but it is pretty much true.

The difference is the coach.

Peck
03-02-2013, 07:44 PM
Not going to name people but I'm pretty sure that is more than one poster.



I know you don't think he is a superstar but you still think he is an star and when somebody think otherwise you think people are trashing Danny and hate him.



The thing is that nobody(other than croz) is attacking Danny, you people (see what I'm doing here? ;)) are the ones that get all defensive when in reality nobody is trashing or hating on the guy.

At this point in time? No, you are correct for the most part everyone is quick to agree that he isn't what he used to be due to the injury so even fans are accepting that right now he has to at the very least work his way back into game shape.

However there certainly was a point in time that people felt the need to trash Danny to elevate Paul. I hope that article and the fact that Danny seems willing to step back puts that to bed.

Hey you should be happy with me, I elevated your boy Ellis up to the top 5 of that draft class and that is an even bigger jump than Danny's was.

If nothing else I hope you watched last nights game and saw the defense Danny played on Gay for a short time, it really was quite impressive from the standpoint of leverage, knowledge and strength.

There is no doubt Paul George is the better defender but Danny has really got some quality veteran moves on defense.

Peck
03-02-2013, 07:49 PM
[QUOTE=vnzla81;1599267]

I know you don't think he is a superstar but you still think he is an star and when somebody think otherwise you think people are trashing Danny and hate him.


Okay I'm not sure you & I have ever had this debate before, if we have I don't remember it.

If we both concede he is not a superstar then do you not consider him a star either?

You don't have to define star but just give me some examples of who fits the star category for you. Also let me make sure to be clear here, I'm talking about the healthy Danny Granger. Obviously he is not a star caliber player at the moment.

But go back a year or two, was he a star then? But really I'm more interested in seeing who you have as a star player.

1984
03-02-2013, 08:10 PM
Danny was a light in the dark. Danny has had a ruff start, but he will have a strong finish. Here's to the coexistence of Paul and Danny.

vnzla81
03-02-2013, 08:17 PM
Okay I'm not sure you & I have ever had this debate before, if we have I don't remember it.

If we both concede he is not a superstar then do you not consider him a star either?


Danny has not been an star in a least two years, yes his numbers have been up there but "true stars" do other things on the court other than score.


You don't have to define star but just give me some examples of who fits the star category for you. Also let me make sure to be clear here, I'm talking about the healthy Danny Granger. Obviously he is not a star caliber player at the moment.

But go back a year or two, was he a star then? But really I'm more interested in seeing who you have as a star player.

Stars to me are players that bring other things other than scoring to the table, I can tell you that if Danny in his prime was as good as Paul George right now nobody would have been complaining about him.

It is hard for me to put Danny on the star category when he obviously only cared about scoring and took defensive plays off for many years, I mean one thing is try and not been able to do it but another thing is just not trying just because you don't want to.

cdash
03-02-2013, 08:20 PM
Danny has not been an star in a least two years, yes his numbers have been up there but "true stars" do other things on the court other than score.



Stars to me are players that bring other things other than scoring to the table, I can tell you that if Danny in his prime was as good as Paul George right now nobody would have been complaining about him.

It is hard for me to put Danny on the star category when he obviously only cared about scoring and took defensive plays off for many years, I mean one thing is try and not been able to do it but another thing is just not trying just because you don't want to.

This type of post would carry a lot more weight if you didn't have a mancrush on Monta Ellis; the king of volume shooting and offensive inefficiency.

vnzla81
03-02-2013, 08:26 PM
This type of post would carry a lot more weight if you didn't have a mancrush on Monta Ellis; the king of volume shooting and offensive inefficiency.

Monta used to be an star I don't think he is anymore so my point is still the same, I believe that he can be the perfect 6th man to a championship team though.



edit: Note that I wanted to trade Danny to get some value before his knees gave up so Monta to me was the best option to replace him.

cdash
03-02-2013, 08:29 PM
Monta used to be an star I don't think he is anymore so my point is still the same, I believe that he can be the perfect 6th man to a championship team though.

Ahh, I didn't realize you had altered your opinion of him. I agree, for once. I think he would be a very high caliber sixth man--much like Jamal Crawford in Lob City.

vnzla81
03-02-2013, 08:37 PM
Ahh, I didn't realize you had altered your opinion of him. I agree, for once. I think he would be a very high caliber sixth man--much like Jamal Crawford in Lob City.


I think he can be a better option than Crawford, he brings better passing and he has more tools to score, I also believe that Monta's decision making can be fixed with a better coach, somebody like Vogel can do a lot for a guy like Monta I think.

Peck
03-02-2013, 09:26 PM
Danny has not been an star in a least two years, yes his numbers have been up there but "true stars" do other things on the court other than score.



Stars to me are players that bring other things other than scoring to the table, I can tell you that if Danny in his prime was as good as Paul George right now nobody would have been complaining about him.

It is hard for me to put Danny on the star category when he obviously only cared about scoring and took defensive plays off for many years, I mean one thing is try and not been able to do it but another thing is just not trying just because you don't want to.

Back to the question at hand then, what players do you consider star players?

DGPR
03-02-2013, 10:17 PM
Monta used to be an star I don't think he is anymore so my point is still the same, I believe that he can be the perfect 6th man to a championship team though.



edit: Note that I wanted to trade Danny to get some value before his knees gave up so Monta to me was the best option to replace him.

Greg Oden's knees gave up... Allan Houston's knees gave up.... Danny Granger had a knee injury that was different from any other injury he has had in the past. I know you have been told this before so don't dismiss that information now to prove a pathetic point.

CJ Jones
03-02-2013, 10:53 PM
"As much as ever" is technically false...by about .7 FGA/gm..lol if you wanna look at it factually lol.


When you look at per 36, the shot attempts were exactly the same as the year before. Then when you take into account his usage rate and assist % went down, you could make the argument his game was more selfish last year than the year before. That's after adding an all-star caliber player in D. West and with Roy's emergence as an all-star. I've made this point several times before, but the narrative stays the same. Reality is Danny didn't take a step back for his teammates last year. He was the same ol' Danny.

CJ Jones
03-02-2013, 11:07 PM
I think he can be a better option than Crawford, he brings better passing and he has more tools to score, I also believe that Monta's decision making can be fixed with a better coach, somebody like Vogel can do a lot for a guy like Monta I think.

This. I'd love to see Monta in a better situation. People here kill Monta for losing, but the fact is he's been on some pretty bad teams. I'd like to believe if he was here, on defensive minded team that had a chance to win it all, he'd be more efficient and a better defender. Especially if it was primarily at the 1. Monta seems to be well liked by his teammates, and while he's prone to taking dumb shots, you can't question his heart. I guess that's why I'm a fan. Dude's a good teammate and plays as hard as anyone.

Day-V
03-02-2013, 11:39 PM
Dude's a good teammate and plays as hard as anyone.

That's all well and good, but lots of guys in the league play hard and are good teammates. But many of those guys don't take horrible shots and they actually play defense. I might be in the minority on this one, but that's why I'd much rather have guys like George Hill than guys like Monta Ellis.

If you "play as hard as anyone" on a bad team, going to a good team doesn't magically make you a better defender.

Ace E.Anderson
03-03-2013, 12:09 AM
This. I'd love to see Monta in a better situation. People here kill Monta for losing, but the fact is he's been on some pretty bad teams. I'd like to believe if he was here, on defensive minded team that had a chance to win it all, he'd be more efficient and a better defender. Especially if it was primarily at the 1. Monta seems to be well liked by his teammates, and while he's prone to taking dumb shots, you can't question his heart. I guess that's why I'm a fan. Dude's a good teammate and plays as hard as anyone.

Danny's got heart and is loved by his teammates yet you just talked about you not liking his game bc he shoots too much; yet you like Monta who prob has the same deficiencies as Danny, just as a small 2-guard.

Also note: I'm a fan Monta, but feel he's gotten worse since traded to MIL.

Ace E.Anderson
03-03-2013, 12:13 AM
When you look at per 36, the shot attempts were exactly the same as the year before. Then when you take into account his usage rate and assist % went down, you could make the argument his game was more selfish last year than the year before. That's after adding an all-star caliber player in D. West and with Roy's emergence as an all-star. I've made this point several times before, but the narrative stays the same. Reality is Danny didn't take a step back for his teammates last year. He was the same ol' Danny.

Is PG a "chucker"? No he isn't. And he takes the same number of shot attempts as Danny did last season.

When you're the leading scorer, you shoot more. But even so, 15/game is hardly a lot. No he's not a playmaker, or a good passer, but that doesn't make him a "chucker" IMO.

CJ Jones
03-03-2013, 12:22 AM
That's all well and good, but lots of guys in the league play hard and are good teammates. But many of those guys don't take horrible shots and they actually play defense. I might be in the minority on this one, but that's why I'd much rather have guys like George Hill than guys like Monta Ellis.

If you "play as hard as anyone" on a bad team, going to a good team doesn't magically make you a better defender.

Like Vnzla said, I think he could use the coaching and veteran leadership a team like ours would provide. He wouldn't need to shoot nearly as many shots because he'd have other players on the court with him that can score in the half court. Defensively, just guarding people his size would be helpful. At the 2 he gives up more size on a nightly basis than probably anyone in the league.

I still think he could be the perfect point guard for our system. Ellis/D. West Pick and pop would be deadly, and Ellis in transition with Paul and Lance would be unstoppable and very entertaining. Monta wants to win... that I'm sure of after watching him all these years. I think playing on a team like ours would be the perfect situation for him.

presto123
03-03-2013, 12:43 AM
I don't understand the reason to start this poll. Do I like Danny Granger? As a person or a player? I imagine hardly anybody on this site knows him off the court.

CJ Jones
03-03-2013, 12:44 AM
Danny's got heart and is loved by his teammates yet you just talked about you not liking his game bc he shoots too much; yet you like Monta who prob has the same deficiencies as Danny, just as a small 2-guard.

Also note: I'm a fan Monta, but feel he's gotten worse since traded to MIL.

Danny shooting bad shots is just one of the reasons I don't like his game. IMO his awareness on both ends is pretty low. He doesn't have a lot of natural instincts on the court.


Is PG a "chucker"? No he isn't. And he takes the same number of shot attempts as Danny did last season.

When you're the leading scorer, you shoot more. But even so, 15/game is hardly a lot. No he's not a playmaker, or a good passer, but that doesn't make him a "chucker" IMO.

Danny takes some bad shots and so does Paul. I don't really have a problem with the shots taken, I just don't care for Danny's tunnel vision. I mean, the guy still dribbles with his head down like a high schooler. And again, I'm not saying it's his fault. He does the best he can.

Indra
03-03-2013, 05:18 AM
I was at the Boston game when Danny left his front teeth out on the floor. And that was after missing the playoffs for the previous two years. He had nothing really to play for during those bad years, but he always played hard and he was always a model citizen and ambassador for the city of Indianapolis. I have nothing but respect for Granger as a man, and I respect his professionalism and his game.

Auggie
03-03-2013, 08:42 AM
Going back to the 2005 draft, we forget how easily it could have been Joey Graham or Gerald Green (who were picked right before and after)
Imo Danny was the Paul George before our current Paul George, and was becoming a defensive stud under Carlisle, but couldnt develop that aspect of his game under JOB.

Truth is, Danny was never in a good position in his years with us. Right after he was drafted Artest became crazy again and had to be traded. The following year Al and Jax as well. Those JOB-Dunleavy-Murphy teams were awful yet he stuck with us and was our sole light at the end of the tunnel. He became an All Star and had 2 seasons of 25/5/3. Never demand a trade or wanted to bolt for a bigger market.

Now Danny is a veteran and our young core is ready to take over, and he willingly hands the reign over while mentoring Paul George. What did he ever do wrong to warrant any dislike or hate?

5_7_Clash
03-03-2013, 09:18 AM
Going back to the 2005 draft, we forget how easily it could have been Joey Graham or Gerald Green (who were picked right before and after)
Imo Danny was the Paul George before our current Paul George, and was becoming a defensive stud under Carlisle, but couldnt develop that aspect of his game under JOB.

Truth is, Danny was never in a good position in his years with us. Right after he was drafted Artest became crazy again and had to be traded. The following year Al and Jax as well. Those JOB-Dunleavy-Murphy teams were awful yet he stuck with us and was our sole light at the end of the tunnel. He became an All Star and had 2 seasons of 25/5/3. Never demand a trade or wanted to bolt for a bigger market.

Now Danny is a veteran and our young core is ready to take over, and he willingly hands the reign over while mentoring Paul George. What did he ever do wrong to warrant any dislike or hate?

Well said. Here, here.

OlBlu
03-03-2013, 09:22 AM
Going back to the 2005 draft, we forget how easily it could have been Joey Graham or Gerald Green (who were picked right before and after)
Imo Danny was the Paul George before our current Paul George, and was becoming a defensive stud under Carlisle, but couldnt develop that aspect of his game under JOB.

Truth is, Danny was never in a good position in his years with us. Right after he was drafted Artest became crazy again and had to be traded. The following year Al and Jax as well. Those JOB-Dunleavy-Murphy teams were awful yet he stuck with us and was our sole light at the end of the tunnel. He became an All Star and had 2 seasons of 25/5/3. Never demand a trade or wanted to bolt for a bigger market.

Now Danny is a veteran and our young core is ready to take over, and he willingly hands the reign over while mentoring Paul George. What did he ever do wrong to warrant any dislike or hate?

I think blaming JOB for Danny's poor defense is a stretch. Defense is mainly effort and Danny has never give a great effort on the defensive end of the floor.... :cool: ...

Hicks
03-03-2013, 09:22 AM
I don't understand the reason to start this poll. Do I like Danny Granger? As a person or a player? I imagine hardly anybody on this site knows him off the court.

Exactly.

As a player.

PR07
03-03-2013, 09:25 AM
I guess I'm kind of curious what Danny Granger did to get people to dislike him. Get paid? Have a knee injury?

He's been a model citizen since his time here and was really our only beacon of hope under a very dark period of Pacers' basketball. When healthy, he's an all-star caliber talent who was willing to stick around for this franchise.

Hicks
03-03-2013, 09:26 AM
Well, since it's clear that at least a few people were voting because they mistakenly thought I was asking about how they felt about the guy as a person, this poll is meaningless, I guess.

I mean, I guess I meant it in an overall sense, but I thought it was kind of assumed that it would be mostly about the guy as a basketball player given that's what we mostly know about him.

Hicks
03-03-2013, 09:36 AM
Here, let's try this again:

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?81667-Let-s-try-this-again-Danny-Granger-Poll-Part-II

McKeyFan
03-03-2013, 01:01 PM
I think blaming JOB for Danny's poor defense is a stretch. Defense is mainly effort and Danny has never give a great effort on the defensive end of the floor.... :cool: ...

He's doing better now because his coach now demands a strong defensive effort. I think some blame is rightly placed on JOB for emphasizing offense over defense. I believe Danny will follow Vogel's lead. I don't doubt Danny's desire or effort. But I do have concern that so many years of ingrained habits may not be overcome so quickly.

Peck
03-03-2013, 01:27 PM
Well, since it's clear that at least a few people were voting because they mistakenly thought I was asking about how they felt about the guy as a person, this poll is meaningless, I guess.

I mean, I guess I meant it in an overall sense, but I thought it was kind of assumed that it would be mostly about the guy as a basketball player given that's what we mostly know about him.

To me it's all one and the same, I understand though why others think differently.

Danny wasn't just a good player IMO, he was a shining beacon on a hill as a human after having players who were too cool, gangsters (literally), criminals, malcontents and miscreants.

So to me it all comes together, but I understand that if he were a bad basketball player his positive personal attributes would be meaningless.

vnzla81
03-03-2013, 01:50 PM
Back to the question at hand then, what players do you consider star players?

Players I consider superstars: Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Westbrook and CP3.

Stars: Paul George, Melo, Love, Blake, Dwade, Pierce, KG, Harden, Howard, Zbo, Noah, Chandler, Curry, Gasol, Lamarcus, Irving, Lilliard, Parker, Duncan, Rudy Gay(since he got to Toronto), Al Jefferson, Dwill, Horford, Josh Smith, Bosh, Deng, West, Lopez and Boozer to name some players.


Almost all stars, former stars and future stars(most of them are 6th man): Batum, Crawford, Gallinari, Lawson, JR Smith(yes that guy), Manu, Faried, Holiday, Monta, Jennings, Derozan, Mayo, Ryan Anderson, Pekovic, Millsap, Monroe, George Hill(yes that guy), Iguadola, Danny Granger(100% healthy).



Note that I might be missing some guys, also note that I'm putting Danny on a list were must of the players are healthy, Danny could be on that list if he gets healthy but for the sake of argument I'm going to put him there.

Also note that I'm not mentioning Rose, Rondo, Bogut or Bynum because we don't know when those guys are coming back and if they come back we don't know how good they are going to be.

Peck
03-03-2013, 02:12 PM
Players I consider superstars: Lebron, Durant, Kobe, Westbrook and CP3.

Stars: Paul George, Melo, Love, Blake, Dwade, Pierce, KG, Harden, Howard, Zbo, Noah, Chandler, Curry, Gasol, Lamarcus, Irving, Lilliard, Parker, Duncan, Rudy Gay(since he got to Toronto), Al Jefferson, Dwill, Horford, Josh Smith, Bosh, Deng, West, Lopez and Boozer to name some players.


Almost all stars, former stars and future stars(most of them are 6th man): Batum, Crawford, Gallinari, Lawson, JR Smith(yes that guy), Manu, Faried, Holiday, Monta, Jennings, Derozan, Mayo, Ryan Anderson, Pekovic, Millsap, Monroe, George Hill(yes that guy), Iguadola, Danny Granger(100% healthy).



Note that I might be missing some guys, also note that I'm putting Danny on a list were must of the players are healthy, Danny could be on that list if he gets healthy but for the sake of argument I'm going to put him there.

Also note that I'm not mentioning Rose, Rondo, Bogut or Bynum because we don't know when those guys are coming back and if they come back we don't know how good they are going to be.

I certainly disagree with Lopez, Boozer & yes Curry (don't be fooled by his current hot shooting streak he is a one trick pony) on that list but I get what you are saying. I would probably rotate Westbrook & Melo myself but that's just being nit picky.

vnzla81
03-03-2013, 02:41 PM
I certainly disagree with Lopez, Boozer & yes Curry (don't be fooled by his current hot shooting streak he is a one trick pony) on that list but I get what you are saying. I would probably rotate Westbrook & Melo myself but that's just being nit picky.


Boozer has been the Bulls best player this year in my opinion(15 and 9), same with Lopez (18.8 and 7.2), Curry has been a good player for a while his only problem is his ankles, I rather have Westbrook than Melo but yeah you can switch those two depending of what you like.


And I disagree that Curry is one trick pony, he has way to many tools to call him like that.

Peck
03-03-2013, 04:31 PM
Boozer has been the Bulls best player this year in my opinion(15 and 9), same with Lopez (18.8 and 7.2), Curry has been a good player for a while his only problem is his ankles, I rather have Westbrook than Melo but yeah you can switch those two depending of what you like.


And I disagree that Curry is one trick pony, he has way to many tools to call him like that.

So then you agree with me about star players then? I also feel that if you are your teams best player you are the star of that team and since you are in the NBA that pretty much makes you a star.

I mean 15 & 9 is good and all but that doesn't meet Olblu standard of star player, which as I said as long as he is consistent about it which he has been so far is fine.

I just don't have that high of a standard for a star player, superstar absolutely, but not star.

We'll just agree to disagree about Curry, don't get me wrong he is a phenom as a shooter but as an overall game? Not really, I think Hill is a better overall player and isn't so far behind him as a shooter that I would trade him for him.

vnzla81
03-03-2013, 05:34 PM
So then you agree with me about star players then? I also feel that if you are your teams best player you are the star of that team and since you are in the NBA that pretty much makes you a star.

Not every team best player is an star, is Wall an star at this moment? my guess is nope, is Kemba Walker an star? nope, Monroe? nope, Greivis Vasquez? nope, EJ? nope, I guess you get my point.

It has been said forever but every NBA team has a guy that has to score points, just because a guy scores those points that doesn't make him an star, that player has to bring more things to the table to be called an star in my opinion.


I mean 15 & 9 is good and all but that doesn't meet Olblu standard of star player, which as I said as long as he is consistent about it which he has been so far is fine.

Oldblu doesn't separate superstars and stars, for him Lebron is an star.


I just don't have that high of a standard for a star player, superstar absolutely, but not star.

Trust me I know :-p


We'll just agree to disagree about Curry, don't get me wrong he is a phenom as a shooter but as an overall game? Not really, I think Hill is a better overall player and isn't so far behind him as a shooter that I would trade him for him.

Curry's overall game is up there when you compare him to the elite point guards, I love Hill but there is no way in hell I would take him over Curry, SC is just in another planet compared to Hill in my opinion.

Nuntius
03-03-2013, 05:46 PM
Boozer has been the Bulls best player this year in my opinion(15 and 9)

I don't disagree significantly with your previous post (I agreed with a significant part of it) but I disagree in this one.

Joakim Noah has been the undisputed best player of the Bulls this year.

12 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 4.2 APG, 2.3 SPG and 1.3 SPG. He is #3 in scoring, #1 in rebounding, #2 in assists, #1 in blocks and #1 in assists.

He is also #4 in TS%, #5 in eFG%, #3 in OWS, #1 in DWS (it's the same with ORtg being at #3 and DRtg being at #1) and a clear #1 in total Win Shares.

He is doing almost everything for the Bulls. He should be the starting Center of the Eastern Conference.

able
03-03-2013, 06:07 PM
Not every team best player is an star, is Wall an star at this moment? my guess is nope, is Kemba Walker an star? nope, Monroe? nope, Greivis Vasquez? nope, EJ? nope, I guess you get my point.

It has been said forever but every NBA team has a guy that has to score points, just because a guy scores those points that doesn't make him an star, that player has to bring more things to the table to be called an star in my opinion.



Oldblu doesn't separate superstars and stars, for him Lebron is an star.



Trust me I know :-p



Curry's overall game is up there when you compare him to the elite point guards, I love Hill but there is no way in hell I would take him over Curry, SC is just in another planet compared to Hill in my opinion.

Yet you claim Orlando Johnson a better player than Danny Granger, going over your list and where you put Danny I can make a case you simply hate Danny Granger, want to prove you know it all better and fail miserably in doing so, in short you are projecting YOUR shortcomings on DG and us, please refrain, you (IMO; and no humble I am not) you are insane.

vnzla81
03-03-2013, 06:19 PM
Yet you claim Orlando Johnson a better player than Danny Granger, going over your list and where you put Danny I can make a case you simply hate Danny Granger, want to prove you know it all better and fail miserably in doing so, in short you are projecting YOUR shortcomings on DG and us, please refrain, you (IMO; and no humble I am not) you are insane.

I'm putting Danny on the same list as guys as Iguadola, Faried and others and I hate him? stop it.

Your crazy talk is one of the reasons why Danny is such a polarizing player around here, you are always accusing people of making rumors and hating Danny Granger, funny that you are the one accusing others of hate but you are the main guy that always comes out of nowhere to talk s*** about West and Tyler, is Paul George now on your s*** list?

able
03-03-2013, 06:26 PM
I'm putting Danny on the same list as guys as Iguadola, Faried and others and I hate him? stop it.

Your crazy talk is one of the reasons why Danny is such a polarizing player around here, you are always accusing people of making rumors and hating Danny Granger, funny that you are the one accusing others of hate but you are the main guy that always comes out of nowhere to talk s*** about West and Tyler, is Paul George now on your s*** list?

I will give you an hour to prove what you are accusing me off, with your normal wish-wash bs statements, show me all those posts I make that "hate on" all the players you mention, if you cant I expect you to come true to your earlier statement about being done posting here, if not I will gladly help you along.

Don't put non-existent posts in my mouth or where-ever get a life and own up to being the poster you are, a malcontent nitwit.

vnzla81
03-03-2013, 07:11 PM
I will give you an hour to prove what you are accusing me off, with your normal wish-wash bs statements, show me all those posts I make that "hate on" all the players you mention, if you cant I expect you to come true to your earlier statement about being done posting here, if not I will gladly help you along.

Don't put non-existent posts in my mouth or where-ever get a life and own up to being the poster you are, a malcontent nitwit.

Yes I am malcontent lol

Here is one of your post out of nowhere about David West(I thanked that post by the way)


trolls have taken over these threads that is for sure and David West being where he is supposed to be on help defense will be the 1st time in quite a while, i'll help the trolls. he is a liability on defense.
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?80118-1-28-2013-Game-Thread-45-Pacers-Vs-Nuggets&p=1573958#post1573958



Here is another post I thanked:


You mean like the "no-defence" he has been playing lately? or the revolving head defence?

The last 3 games he has been at the very best a liability on defence, and more likely an outright disaster. his help is non-existent and it is way to easy for opponents to attack Roy who than does his thing and stops it, for someone to hand the ball off to West's guy, since West will be enjoying a court-side view of the play, without interfering, not to mention his rebounding mantra off late (and it infeceted Tyler as well) "if the ball lands near me I will lift a finger, but don't expect me to stretch all the way!"

If you take in to consideration that our two wingplayers each had more rebounds than either of our PF's even if you count them together, than I rest my case.

West' play and Hill of late are purely there for offense they enjoy, and want to take, please don't tell me Hill can distribute, because he sure hasn't shown it off late and his defence is "when I am in the neighbourhood" kind of defence, it plain sucks

While West may have improved over last year, in the last few weeks he has regressed far beyond that, and is a net minus.
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?80129-David-West-s-transformation&p=1574609#post1574609


West is simply a liability on defence, dare I say even worse than Hans at the moment, sad sad sad, and I don't care one bit about his scoring ability if he scores 29 a game and don't play defense, we never gonna win, he makes Randolph look like Kareem!
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?78946-12-31-2012-Game-Thread-31-Pacers-Vs-Grizzlies&p=1555275#post1555275




if I never have to see Hansbrough play again I will count it as a blessing
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?78066-12-9-2012-Game-Thread-21-Pacers-Vs-Thunder&p=1543301#post1543301


Here is the one post of you thinking that someway somehow I am been the one making those rumors up:


VNZLA Bird has said more then once DG wont be traded for reasons of loyalty, something that also binds people to a team, now i know it is something totally stange to you, seeing as you are trading our roster on a regular base, but there are also people who think the same way in ways of loyalty.

I for one am with Peck, no need to trade granger, get a better player alongside him and until PG has proven he is better then DG it is not even in the discussion that he is hindered by position or not, DG got the same minutes and was a far better platyer at the ned of year 2

It is the continuous beating of a totally dead horse you are doing that gets on people's nerve; we know how you think about granger, for the sake of humanity i ask you friendly to drop the stick and concentrate on another trick.


so you couldn't get a favorable reply to your trade danny ideas here, so a "leading question" is asked on an internet forum
*
Granger not for sale.
*
-eof-
http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?68469-Chad-Ford-chat-01-11-12&p=1343390#post1343390

And more Tyler hate:


I nearly choked if Hans is useful (anywhere but sitting down) DC is probably the best rebounder in the league, Tyler is an absolute wast of a high pick



Well I was not half as impressed with Tyler as you (of course I can't be either) I personally think he sets better screens for Orlando than they themselves could and he did that on at least 4 occassions.

I am starting to crinch whenever T gets the ball and I consider us lucky his pokes were not called as a foul, speaking of which;




i wonder why on God's green earth we are playing Tyler


Well since Peck cornered the phrase, you are off your rocker!

With Tyler best you can hope for he does not to much damage to your score and team when he is out there missingdefensive assignments and getting in the way on offensive ones, blocking out his own team mates on rebounds etc.
Not to mention that you often wondere which number will be bigger Hibberts' blocks or Tylers; blocks against him.

Don't start comparing West and Tyler, it is like a Roller and a beetle, the 2 simply don't compare.
While I a not always happy with West, I will never make the mistake to think we have anyone on our roster that could play the 4 close to like he can and does.

Our guards for the most part however are simply incapable of getting a ball into the post in a timely fashion, perhaps they think the defense wont try to push them back out again, grab push shove and kick to regain poition.
That however i think is conditioning, like Pavlov did, and that is a coach's job and frankly I am utterly dissapointed that after a full season we still are unable to do so.

Finally I think to cover that up we went a lot with West in the beginning, where we should have established Roy, and hadour guards drive and get their "bigs" in to foultrouble, no such thing happened, so as far as i am concerned i put this loss for 80% on the coach.



compare Paul George from last season to this season, he added to his skills.
compare Roy Hibbert from last season to this season, he added to his skills.

Tyler added nothing since he arrived 3 years ago, limited training? I say most of them used the added time off to work hard on their game, I heard from most players where they were and what they were doing, all except Tyler.


really getting rid of tyler would probably be the best move we can make


Thanks for giving me an hour though...

able
03-04-2013, 02:21 AM
I should have given you more time, you could have come up with more than posts from last year and posts saying West' defence is poor, which at that time it definitely was, oh wait eve Peck has that wrong as well of course.
And I don't "hate" Tyler, but I think I say noting wrong if I say he's not worth the high pick we used on him, not by a long shot.
Unless of course you are going to declare Tyler better than DG too, but hey you love DG right?

You can take any quote of me out of context and make it look like it is supporting your case, it is not of course, nowhere near, no matter what you think.

you against the world and we are all wrong; "you guys" or "you people" are your favourite but hey you are never wrong.

travmil
03-04-2013, 09:20 AM
I call BS on the results of this poll. I see WAY too much Granger hate around here for him to have a 97.5% "like" result among the 162 (so far) posters who voted. Some of the poeple that claim they "like" him, are flat out lying.

For the record, I have always liked Granger. Not blindly, I do recognize he's not a superstar and that his game has limitations. But that doesn't mean that I don't like him or having him on my favorite team.

Sandman21
03-04-2013, 09:37 AM
I call BS on the results of this poll. I see WAY too much Granger hate around here for him to have a 97.5% "like" result among the 162 (so far) posters who voted. Some of the poeple that claim they "like" him, are flat out lying.

For the record, I have always liked Granger. Not blindly, I do recognize he's not a superstar and that his game has limitations. But that doesn't mean that I don't like him or having him on my favorite team.

Vocal minority, silent majority.

Trader Joe
03-04-2013, 11:12 AM
When you look at we got out of him for someone picked at number 17 in the draft, it is hard to complain.

Trader Joe
03-04-2013, 11:20 AM
I think blaming JOB for Danny's poor defense is a stretch. Defense is mainly effort and Danny has never give a great effort on the defensive end of the floor.... :cool: ...

never? This is simply not true. Danny Granger of his first three years was a great two way player. Something happened the year he made the all star game....you don't want to blame the environment the coach had clearly created, but I think that is just as fair as outright deciding that Granger stopped caring about defense all by himself.