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Whether your are a long standing forum member or whether you have just registered today, it's a good idea to read and review the rules below so that you have a very good idea of what to expect when you come to Pacers Digest.

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Below are the rules of Pacers Digest. After you have read them, you will have a very good sense of where we are coming from, what we expect, what we don't want to see, and how we react to things.

Rule #1

Pacers Digest is intended to be a place to discuss basketball without having to deal with the kinds of behaviors or attitudes that distract people from sticking with the discussion of the topics at hand. These unwanted distractions can come in many forms, and admittedly it can sometimes be tricky to pin down each and every kind that can rear its ugly head, but we feel that the following examples and explanations cover at least a good portion of that ground and should at least give people a pretty good idea of the kinds of things we actively discourage:

"Anyone who __________ is a liar / a fool / an idiot / a blind homer / has their head buried in the sand / a blind hater / doesn't know basketball / doesn't watch the games"

"People with intelligence will agree with me when I say that __________"

"Only stupid people think / believe / do ___________"

"I can't wait to hear something from PosterX when he/she sees that **insert a given incident or current event that will have probably upset or disappointed PosterX here**"

"He/she is just delusional"

"This thread is stupid / worthless / embarrassing"

"I'm going to take a moment to point and / laugh at PosterX / GroupOfPeopleY who thought / believed *insert though/belief here*"

"Remember when PosterX said OldCommentY that no longer looks good? "

In general, if a comment goes from purely on topic to something 'ad hominem' (personal jabs, personal shots, attacks, flames, however you want to call it, towards a person, or a group of people, or a given city/state/country of people), those are most likely going to be found intolerable.

We also dissuade passive aggressive behavior. This can be various things, but common examples include statements that are basically meant to imply someone is either stupid or otherwise incapable of holding a rational conversation. This can include (but is not limited to) laughing at someone's conclusions rather than offering an honest rebuttal, asking people what game they were watching, or another common problem is Poster X will say "that player isn't that bad" and then Poster Y will say something akin to "LOL you think that player is good". We're not going to tolerate those kinds of comments out of respect for the community at large and for the sake of trying to just have an honest conversation.

Now, does the above cover absolutely every single kind of distraction that is unwanted? Probably not, but you should by now have a good idea of the general types of things we will be discouraging. The above examples are meant to give you a good feel for / idea of what we're looking for. If something new or different than the above happens to come along and results in the same problem (that being, any other attitude or behavior that ultimately distracts from actually just discussing the topic at hand, or that is otherwise disrespectful to other posters), we can and we will take action to curb this as well, so please don't take this to mean that if you managed to technically avoid saying something exactly like one of the above examples that you are then somehow off the hook.

That all having been said, our goal is to do so in a generally kind and respectful way, and that doesn't mean the moment we see something we don't like that somebody is going to be suspended or banned, either. It just means that at the very least we will probably say something about it, quite possibly snipping out the distracting parts of the post in question while leaving alone the parts that are actually just discussing the topics, and in the event of a repeating or excessive problem, then we will start issuing infractions to try to further discourage further repeat problems, and if it just never seems to improve, then finally suspensions or bans will come into play. We would prefer it never went that far, and most of the time for most of our posters, it won't ever have to.

A slip up every once and a while is pretty normal, but, again, when it becomes repetitive or excessive, something will be done. Something occasional is probably going to be let go (within reason), but when it starts to become habitual or otherwise a pattern, odds are very good that we will step in.

There's always a small minority that like to push people's buttons and/or test their own boundaries with regards to the administrators, and in the case of someone acting like that, please be aware that this is not a court of law, but a private website run by people who are simply trying to do the right thing as they see it. If we feel that you are a special case that needs to be dealt with in an exceptional way because your behavior isn't explicitly mirroring one of our above examples of what we generally discourage, we can and we will take atypical action to prevent this from continuing if you are not cooperative with us.

Also please be aware that you will not be given a pass simply by claiming that you were 'only joking,' because quite honestly, when someone really is just joking, for one thing most people tend to pick up on the joke, including the person or group that is the target of the joke, and for another thing, in the event where an honest joke gets taken seriously and it upsets or angers someone, the person who is truly 'only joking' will quite commonly go out of his / her way to apologize and will try to mend fences. People who are dishonest about their statements being 'jokes' do not do so, and in turn that becomes a clear sign of what is really going on. It's nothing new.

In any case, quite frankly, the overall quality and health of the entire forum's community is more important than any one troublesome user will ever be, regardless of exactly how a problem is exhibiting itself, and if it comes down to us having to make a choice between you versus the greater health and happiness of the entire community, the community of this forum will win every time.

Lastly, there are also some posters, who are generally great contributors and do not otherwise cause any problems, who sometimes feel it's their place to provoke or to otherwise 'mess with' that small minority of people described in the last paragraph, and while we possibly might understand why you might feel you WANT to do something like that, the truth is we can't actually tolerate that kind of behavior from you any more than we can tolerate the behavior from them. So if we feel that you are trying to provoke those other posters into doing or saying something that will get themselves into trouble, then we will start to view you as a problem as well, because of the same reason as before: The overall health of the forum comes first, and trying to stir the pot with someone like that doesn't help, it just makes it worse. Some will simply disagree with this philosophy, but if so, then so be it because ultimately we have to do what we think is best so long as it's up to us.

If you see a problem that we haven't addressed, the best and most appropriate course for a forum member to take here is to look over to the left of the post in question. See underneath that poster's name, avatar, and other info, down where there's a little triangle with an exclamation point (!) in it? Click that. That allows you to report the post to the admins so we can definitely notice it and give it a look to see what we feel we should do about it. Beyond that, obviously it's human nature sometimes to want to speak up to the poster in question who has bothered you, but we would ask that you try to refrain from doing so because quite often what happens is two or more posters all start going back and forth about the original offending post, and suddenly the entire thread is off topic or otherwise derailed. So while the urge to police it yourself is understandable, it's best to just report it to us and let us handle it. Thank you!

All of the above is going to be subject to a case by case basis, but generally and broadly speaking, this should give everyone a pretty good idea of how things will typically / most often be handled.

Rule #2

If the actions of an administrator inspire you to make a comment, criticism, or express a concern about it, there is a wrong place and a couple of right places to do so.

The wrong place is to do so in the original thread in which the administrator took action. For example, if a post gets an infraction, or a post gets deleted, or a comment within a larger post gets clipped out, in a thread discussing Paul George, the wrong thing to do is to distract from the discussion of Paul George by adding your off topic thoughts on what the administrator did.

The right places to do so are:

A) Start a thread about the specific incident you want to talk about on the Feedback board. This way you are able to express yourself in an area that doesn't throw another thread off topic, and this way others can add their two cents as well if they wish, and additionally if there's something that needs to be said by the administrators, that is where they will respond to it.

B) Send a private message to the administrators, and they can respond to you that way.

If this is done the wrong way, those comments will be deleted, and if it's a repeating problem then it may also receive an infraction as well.

Rule #3

If a poster is bothering you, and an administrator has not or will not deal with that poster to the extent that you would prefer, you have a powerful tool at your disposal, one that has recently been upgraded and is now better than ever: The ability to ignore a user.

When you ignore a user, you will unfortunately still see some hints of their existence (nothing we can do about that), however, it does the following key things:

A) Any post they make will be completely invisible as you scroll through a thread.

B) The new addition to this feature: If someone QUOTES a user you are ignoring, you do not have to read who it was, or what that poster said, unless you go out of your way to click on a link to find out who it is and what they said.

To utilize this feature, from any page on Pacers Digest, scroll to the top of the page, look to the top right where it says 'Settings' and click that. From the settings page, look to the left side of the page where it says 'My Settings', and look down from there until you see 'Edit Ignore List' and click that. From here, it will say 'Add a Member to Your List...' Beneath that, click in the text box to the right of 'User Name', type in or copy & paste the username of the poster you are ignoring, and once their name is in the box, look over to the far right and click the 'Okay' button. All done!

Rule #4

Regarding infractions, currently they carry a value of one point each, and that point will expire in 31 days. If at any point a poster is carrying three points at the same time, that poster will be suspended until the oldest of the three points expires.

Rule #5

When you share or paste content or articles from another website, you must include the URL/link back to where you found it, who wrote it, and what website it's from. Said content will be removed if this doesn't happen.

An example:

If I copy and paste an article from the Indianapolis Star website, I would post something like this:

http://www.linktothearticlegoeshere.com/article
Title of the Article
Author's Name
Indianapolis Star

Rule #6

We cannot tolerate illegal videos on Pacers Digest. This means do not share any links to them, do not mention any websites that host them or link to them, do not describe how to find them in any way, and do not ask about them. Posts doing anything of the sort will be removed, the offenders will be contacted privately, and if the problem becomes habitual, you will be suspended, and if it still persists, you will probably be banned.

The legal means of watching or listening to NBA games are NBA League Pass Broadband (for US, or for International; both cost money) and NBA Audio League Pass (which is free). Look for them on NBA.com.

Rule #7

Provocative statements in a signature, or as an avatar, or as the 'tagline' beneath a poster's username (where it says 'Member' or 'Administrator' by default, if it is not altered) are an unwanted distraction that will more than likely be removed on sight. There can be shades of gray to this, but in general this could be something political or religious that is likely going to provoke or upset people, or otherwise something that is mean-spirited at the expense of a poster, a group of people, or a population.

It may or may not go without saying, but this goes for threads and posts as well, particularly when it's not made on the off-topic board (Market Square).

We do make exceptions if we feel the content is both innocuous and unlikely to cause social problems on the forum (such as wishing someone a Merry Christmas or a Happy Easter), and we also also make exceptions if such topics come up with regards to a sports figure (such as the Lance Stephenson situation bringing up discussions of domestic abuse and the law, or when Jason Collins came out as gay and how that lead to some discussion about gay rights).

However, once the discussion seems to be more/mostly about the political issues instead of the sports figure or his specific situation, the thread is usually closed.

Rule #8

We prefer self-restraint and/or modesty when making jokes or off topic comments in a sports discussion thread. They can be fun, but sometimes they derail or distract from a topic, and we don't want to see that happen. If we feel it is a problem, we will either delete or move those posts from the thread.

Rule #9

Generally speaking, we try to be a "PG-13" rated board, and we don't want to see sexual content or similarly suggestive content. Vulgarity is a more muddled issue, though again we prefer things to lean more towards "PG-13" than "R". If we feel things have gone too far, we will step in.

Rule #10

We like small signatures, not big signatures. The bigger the signature, the more likely it is an annoying or distracting signature.

Rule #11

Do not advertise anything without talking about it with the administrators first. This includes advertising with your signature, with your avatar, through private messaging, and/or by making a thread or post.
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League is Contesting Ruling on JO

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  • #1

    League is Contesting Ruling on JO

    Shows how much I know. Didn't think they would do this.

    Wednesday, December 22, 2004


    Associated Press
    NEW YORK -- Jermaine O'Neal won a 10-game reduction Wednesday in his suspension for fighting with fans during the Nov. 19 Pacers-Pistons brawl, but an arbitrator also upheld NBA commissioner David Stern's bans on Ron Artest and two other Indiana players.


    The league said it would go to federal court to challenge arbitrator Roger Kaplan's decision, which could make O'Neal eligible to return Saturday when the Pacers host the Detroit Pistons in the teams' first matchup since one of the most violent melees in NBA history.


    "We have consistently maintained that the arbitrator has no legitimate role in this matter," NBA deputy commissioner Russ Granik said. "While we obviously agree with Mr. Kaplan's decision upholding virtually all of the suspensions, we don't agree with his conclusion that the conduct did not occur on the playing court, and we have no choice other than to challenge it in federal court."


    A hearing was set for 10 a.m. Thursday in U.S. District Court.


    In a 28-page decision, Kaplan upheld Artest's season-long suspension and the penalties given to Stephen Jackson (30 games) and Anthony Johnson (five games).


    O'Neal's ban was reduced from 25 games to 15.


    The union had asked for substantial reductions in the penalties during a six-hour arbitration hearing at a Manhattan law office. The NBA declined to participate, saying Kaplan had no jurisdiction to arbitrate penalties for on-court behavior -- an area in which the league contends the commissioner has sole discretion.


    "We're extremely pleased that Jermaine will have the opportunity to play, although we respectfully disagree with the decision on the other three players," players' union director Billy Hunter said. "We are also pleased that the arbitrator has affirmed the right of players to appeal disciplinary measures."


    Kaplan ruled that he had jurisdiction to hear the case, and that Stern had just cause to issue the suspensions he gave to Artest, Jackson and Johnson.


    The reasoning for his reduction of O'Neal's suspension was not immediately clear.


    "We're gratified that the arbitrator ruled in our favor," said Arn Tellem, O'Neal's agent. "Jermaine is anxious to put this matter behind him."


    The NBA has already filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court challenging Kaplan's authority to hear the grievance, a complaint that remains pending before U.S. District Judge George B. Daniels.


    Each of the players testified before Kaplan during the hearing, and union attorneys submitted three lines of argument on the issue of jurisdiction.


    The union cited a 1995 modification to the collective bargaining agreement allowing for appeals in cases where the financial penalty to the disciplined played exceeds $25,000. The union also argued the definitions of what constitutes "reasonable" punishment and "on-court behavior."


    The arbitrator also reviewed videotape of the entire 12-minute brawl, in which Artest sprinted into the stands and confronted a fan he believed had thrown a drink at him. Jackson also went into the stands and exchanged punches with fans, while O'Neal and Johnson punched fans who came onto the court.


    Five Pacers players and seven fans face criminal charges.


    Indiana coach Rick Carlisle said he had no immediate comment on the ruling. Team spokesman David Benner said the Pacers would not comment until the league responded to the ruling.


    Indiana has lost nine of 14 games since the brawl, using patchwork lineups in an effort to make up for the loss of three of the team's five leading scorers. O'Neal, a three-time All-Star and eight-year veteran, was to serve the 15th game of his suspension Wednesday night when the Pacers played Philadelphia.


    "We need him. We've been going through a tough stretch here, short-handed every night, guys banged up, not knowing who is going to be in the lineup," Pacers guard Jamaal Tinsley said. "We've got a couple of games coming up that we need him."
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

    Sixthman,

    I posted this in reply to our discussion on the other tread, at the same time you posted the above article:

    Originally posted by Jay@Section204
    I'm not as anti-Stern as many of you, but I'm not about to use the word 'sane' and David Stern in the same sentence.

    Is your approach "Safer"... absolutely.

    But this whole "arbitration" issue is based on the CBA. It is a mutually-agreed-upon process. So its going to be negotiated, albeit with much heavier scrutiny this time, regardless of what happens next with this case. So even if Stern loses, the owners could decide this issue was so important that clarify the language AND lock the players out until they give in. I happen to think that shortening the contracts to a maximum of 3-years is a bigger issue for the owners, to help them get some control over thier 'maverick' GMs, but maybe not...
    Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
    Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
    Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
    Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
    And life itself, rushing over me
    Life itself, the wind in black elms,
    Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

    Comment

    • #3
      Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

      Agreed that the shorter guaranteed contracts is the big item for the NBA owners. No question. This is small stuff. Three years? They'd settle in a heart beat for five.

      I guess this means, no way JO plays Saturday, agreed?

      Comment

      • #4
        Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

        No. Once the judge rules in the NBA's favor, which I'm still very confident of, *then* I could see Stern saying that, "one of the true ambassadors of the NBA has suffered a long enough punishment" and agree that fifteen games was a better number.
        Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
        Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
        Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
        Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
        And life itself, rushing over me
        Life itself, the wind in black elms,
        Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

        Comment

        • #5
          Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

          Hey, do we know if Kaplan's ruling has hit TheSmokingGun yet? I'd like to read it.
          Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
          Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
          Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
          Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
          And life itself, rushing over me
          Life itself, the wind in black elms,
          Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

          Comment

          • #6
            Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

            Judge won't make a ruling immediately will he?

            Comment

            • #7
              Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

              Yeah, I think he will. Because this is now very, very, very similar to the NYK/ Miami playoff case in which he stayed late to make his ruling before game five or seven (whichever it was, Rimfire remembers that better than I do ). And, IMO, its always been a slam-dunk decision in favor of the league, anyway.
              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
              And life itself, rushing over me
              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

              Comment

              • #8
                Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                To further my above comment, you know damn good and well that the Simons/ DW want to get Kaplan's opinion of the correct punishment for JO in front of the B.o.G. asap, so that's why I think Stern could take a pre-emptive strike, once the union has been defeated, and just lower JO's punishment.

                IMO, Stern has probably already agreed with it, we just need to play out these procedures.
                Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                And life itself, rushing over me
                Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                Comment

                • #9
                  Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                  Originally posted by sixthman
                  Shows how much I know. Didn't think they would do this.

                  Wednesday, December 22, 2004


                  Associated Press
                  NEW YORK -- Jermaine O'Neal won a 10-game reduction Wednesday in his suspension for fighting with fans during the Nov. 19 Pacers-Pistons brawl, but an arbitrator also upheld NBA commissioner David Stern's bans on Ron Artest and two other Indiana players.


                  The league said it would go to federal court to challenge arbitrator Roger Kaplan's decision, which could make O'Neal eligible to return Saturday when the Pacers host the Detroit Pistons in the teams' first matchup since one of the most violent melees in NBA history.


                  "We have consistently maintained that the arbitrator has no legitimate role in this matter," NBA deputy commissioner Russ Granik said. "While we obviously agree with Mr. Kaplan's decision upholding virtually all of the suspensions, we don't agree with his conclusion that the conduct did not occur on the playing court, and we have no choice other than to challenge it in federal court. We also feel that challenging the decision in court will give Detroit the best chance to win the game on Christmas Day"


                  ."
                  I would rather be the hammer than the nail

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                    Thanks. Very interesting. Food for thought. Of course, the judge won't be the same as for the playoff case you refer to, and the new judge may like his or her Christmas vacations. I would wonder, too, how a judge could rule in good conscience without taking some time to review the arguments. After all, this is not a matter of life or death.

                    What you say about Stern giving his nod to Jermaine after a ruling from the court, makes a lot of sense, too.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                      So will we know if JO can play Staurday by today?
                      Super Bowl XLI Champions
                      2000 Eastern Conference Champions




                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                        "We also feel that challenging the decision in court will give Detroit the best chance to win the game on Christmas Day"

                        Good one, Alabama.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                          Well, at least Stern ****ed himself. Prepare for a lock-out next season.

                          P.S. **** you, Stern.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                            Originally posted by pacerfan2425
                            So will we know if JO can play Staurday by today?
                            Read what it said again. The hearing is tomorrow. IF it goes fast enough to be finished tomorrow, then we could know tomorrow evening. Hey, Suave can come late to the party tomorrow with news again!

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Re: League is Contesting Ruling on JO

                              Originally posted by sixthman
                              Thanks. Very interesting. Food for thought. Of course, the judge won't be the same as for the playoff case you refer to, and the new judge may like his or her Christmas vacations. I would wonder, too, how a judge could rule in good conscience without taking some time to review the arguments. After all, this is not a matter of life or death.

                              What you say about Stern giving his nod to Jermaine after a ruling from the court, makes a lot of sense, too.
                              I think you're right: new judge, same court. I suppose that could make a difference in the outcome and the timing. Remember, the old guy actually said in his ruling that Ewing, Houston, et. al. would be suspended that, "This court is sufficiently parochial to say that it believes the Knicks should be represented in every playoff series."
                              Why do the things that we treasure most, slip away in time
                              Till to the music we grow deaf, to God's beauty blind
                              Why do the things that connect us slowly pull us apart?
                              Till we fall away in our own darkness, a stranger to our own hearts
                              And life itself, rushing over me
                              Life itself, the wind in black elms,
                              Life itself in your heart and in your eyes, I can't make it without you

                              Comment

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