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90'sNBARocked
03-01-2013, 03:12 PM
http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-ranking-the-2013-free-agents/

Here are the top 20 free agents who will be available this offseason:


Chris Paul – Point Guard- Los Angeles Clippers

Nobody expects Paul to leave the Clippers. While the 27-year-old will become an unrestricted free agent this summer, most people around the NBA expect him to re-sign with the team that traded for him prior to last season. Paul seems to love the team and situation in Los Angeles. When the Clippers were pursuing several free agents last offseason, Paul helped recruit the players and they got the sense that the superstar point guard would be with the team long-term. He certainly hasn’t had his foot out the door, and it would be a shock to those within the organization if he decided to sign elsewhere. When Paul left the New Orleans Hornets, he wanted to join a contender and play in a large market. In Los Angeles, he has met both criteria. However, there will still be plenty of teams courting Paul this summer. He’s arguably the best point guard in the league and has proven that he can singlehandedly take a team to the playoffs. It’d be foolish for teams with cap space, such as the Dallas Mavericks and Houston Rockets, not to pursue him. Paul recently made headlines by saying that he hasn’t decided what he’s going to do this offseason, which is just enough to keep the Hawks and Mavericks’ dream of signing him alive.

Dwight Howard – Center – Los Angeles Lakers

It’s no secret that Howard is unhappy. This season hasn’t gone quite as planned for the superstar center. Rather than winning games and repairing his image, Howard continues to run into drama and make headlines for all of the wrong reasons. He and Kobe Bryant have butted heads. He doesn’t believe Mike D’Antoni has used him correctly. He has grown tired of the constant questions and criticism that come with being a superstar in Los Angeles. All of this is true, but is Howard so frustrated with his situation that he would walk and leave $30 million and an extra contract year on the table? The Lakers don’t believe he will, which is why they didn’t trade him prior to the deadline and why they seem so confident that Howard will re-sign. However, that won’t stop rival executives from meeting with Howard and trying to sell them on their situation. Howard left the Orlando Magic because he thought that the grass was greener elsewhere. Will he once again search for a greener pasture after this dismal season? That may be the biggest question entering this summer’s free agency period, and by refusing to discuss his future, Howard has failed to silence the rumors and speculation surrounding his decision.

Andrew Bynum – Center – Philadelphia 76ers

Bynum is one of the most intriguing players in this summer’s free agency class. When healthy, he is one of the best centers in the NBA. The 25-year-old has an incredible resume that includes two championships and All-Star honors. However, staying healthy has been an issue for Bynum, as we’ve seen during his debut season with the 76ers. Because Bynum is so young and has so much upside, he’ll have plenty of teams calling when the clock strikes midnight on July 1. However, it remains to be seen how much teams will be willing to offer him. Bynum will likely take the largest contract on the table, which will likely keep Philadelphia from offering a smaller deal or one that includes protective team options. Bynum’s play, if he’s able to return this season, will help set his price as a free agent.

Josh Smith – Power Forward – Atlanta Hawks

The Hawks decided not to trade Smith at the deadline, but that doesn’t guarantee that he’ll be back with the team next season. Atlanta took a risk by holding onto Smith, and it could end up costing them. Smith and the Hawks have had a shaky relationship over the last several years and it wouldn’t surprise anyone if the seemingly inevitable break up comes this summer. At times, Smith has doubted whether the organization was committed to building a championship contender and demanded a trade as a result. There were some reports in recent weeks that Smith’s representatives have been telling people around the league that Smith wouldn’t re-sign with the Hawks this summer. Smith has said that he thinks he’s a max contract player, but there aren’t many executives who share that belief. At the end of the day, Smith is expected to weigh his options and flirt with the teams that have the most cap space.

David West – Power Forward – Indiana Pacers

In typical West fashion, the power forward hasn’t made headlines or attracted a ton of attention as he approaches free agency. However, he’ll be one of the best players available this July and he’ll be highly coveted. Not only is the 32-year-old one of the best post scorers on the market, he’s also an incredible leader who can turn around an organization. Many within the Pacers organization refer to West as the team’s “heart and soul” and credit the veteran for the team’s turnaround. Before West, Indiana was an up-and-coming team. With West, they expect to win every game and contend come playoff time. Last time West tested free agency, he was coming off of a torn ACL, which is why he took a shorter deal with the Pacers. Now, West is completely healthy and has been extremely effective in Indiana. He’ll have a long list of potential suitors this summer, especially if the Pacers make some noise in the postseason.

Brandon Jennings – Point Guard – Milwaukee Bucks

Jennings will be looking for a big payday this summer since he’s coming off of his rookie contract. The 23-year-old didn’t ink an extension with the Bucks earlier this season so, as a restricted free agent, he’ll try to force Milwaukee’s hand by finding a large offer sheet this offseason. Several teams have already been mentioned as potential suitors for Jennings, including the Dallas Mavericks. Jennings made headlines last year when he told ESPN that he was “doing his homework on big market teams.” The Bucks will have the opportunity to match any offer that Jennings receives, but if a team makes a huge offer to the young point guard, Milwaukee may have a tough decision on their hands.

Nikola Pekovic – Center – Minnesota Timberwolves

Can the Timberwolves afford to re-sign Pekovic? That’s the big question surrounding the center’s restricted free agency. The Wolves would love to bring back the 27-year-old center, but there are plenty of other executives that would love to pry him out of Minneosta. Pekovic has been extremely productive over the last two seasons and certainly seems to be part of the Timberwolves’ long-term plan. However, don’t be surprised if a team like the Portland Trail Blazers makes a lucrative offer to Pekovic, just as they did to restricted free agent Roy Hibbert last offseason. If that happens, Minnesota may have to let Pekovic go for financial reasons.

Paul Millsap – Power Forward – Utah Jazz

The Jazz offered Millsap an extension prior to the start of this season, but the 28-year-old power forward turned it down because he wants to test free agency. Utah decided not to trade Millsap prior to last Thursday’s deadline, which was a bit of head scratcher since they could lose him for nothing this summer and they already have his young replacement on the roster in Derrick Favors. Maybe the Jazz know something that we don’t or maybe they made a mistake that will cost them. We’ll see.

Al Jefferson – Center – Utah Jazz

Jefferson finds himself in the same boat as Millsap. He’s also a 28-year-old big man whose young replacement is already on the roster in Enes Kanter, yet Utah decided not to trade him last week. Jefferson could be a highly coveted free agent this summer, especially if he can lead Utah to the playoffs for the second consecutive season. Favors and Kanter seem to be the future in Utah so it appears inevitable that Millsap and Jefferson will be on the way out. It’s hard to imagine Utah giving their veteran big men lucrative, long-term deals this summer. However, the team’s decision to hold onto them past the trade deadline has everyone wondering what they’ll do next.

Andre Iguodala – Small Forward – Denver Nuggets

Dwight Howard and Andrew Bynum aren’t the only 2011-12 All-Stars who can test free agency after being included in that four-team deal last August. Iguodala can exercise his Early Termination Option and become an unrestricted free agent. If the 29-year-old decides to test the market this summer, he’ll be leaving $15,904,750 on the table. That’s a lot of money to walk away from, but it’s not uncommon for players opt out in order to ensure their job security for four or five more years. The Nuggets knew that acquiring Iguodala over the summer was a risk because he could walk away after only one season, but the fact that he hasn’t had an outstanding year in Denver may keep him from exercising his ETO.

Tyreke Evans – Shooting Guard – Sacramento Kings

Because of Evans’ struggles in recent years, Sacramento’s front office didn’t give the 23-year-old an extension. Instead, he’ll become a restricted free agent this summer. The Kings want to let the market set Evans’ value rather than bidding against themselves. Evans drew some interest at the trade deadline, with the Boston Celtics inquiring about his availability, and he should have no problem landing a large offer sheet this summer. Even though Evans hasn’t been able to duplicate the success he experienced as a rookie, he’s still a versatile player with a lot of potential. There are plenty of executives who believe he could thrive if put in a better situation and who believe his best basketball is ahead of him.

O.J. Mayo – Shooting Guard – Dallas Mavericks

Mayo wanted a big payday last summer, but he was underwhelmed by all of the offers that he received. Rather than settling for a smaller long-term deal, the 25-year-old decided to sign a shorter contract with the Mavericks in an effort to showcase his game. While Mayo signed a two-year deal with a player option for the second year, it’s all but guaranteed that he’s going to opt out and test free agency this summer, especially after having an excellent year with the Mavericks. Mayo has averaged career-highs across the board so he shouldn’t have any problem finding that lucrative, long-term deal this offseason.

Monta Ellis – Shooting Guard – Milwaukee Bucks

Like Iguodala, Ellis can exercise his Early Termination Option after this season to become an unrestricted free agent. Most people around the NBA expect Ellis to leave that final $11 million of his contract on the table to test free agency, and there’s no guarantee he’ll re-sign with Milwaukee. Some league sources believe Ellis wants to join a contender this summer. Ellis has only made the playoffs once in his career, and it was during the 2006-07 season when he was still coming off of the bench for the Golden State Warriors. He has had plenty of individual success and impressive statistics, but he wants to experience the postseason and have the opportunity to perform on the league’s biggest stage.

Kevin Martin – Shooting Guard – Oklahoma City Thunder

The Thunder wants to re-sign Martin this summer and have made assurances that they will do so, according to sources. However, another team could make a lucrative offer to Martin and Oklahoma City would have no choice but to let him walk for financial reasons, just as they had to part ways with James Harden because they couldn’t afford to retain him. Martin will be one of the top scorers available this summer and a strong postseason with the Thunder could increase his stock heading into free agency.

Manu Ginobili – Shooting Guard – San Antonio Spurs

It’s hard to imagine Ginobili signing with another team. He has always said that he wants to finish his career in San Antonio, and the Spurs are known for taking care of their players. Just as the team re-signed Tim Duncan last offseason, everyone expects them to do the same in this situation. At the end of the day, the 35-year-old Ginobili will likely be deciding between another contract with the Spurs or retirement after professional basketball, either in the NBA or overseas, since 1995.

Jeff Teague – Point Guard – Atlanta Hawks

The Hawks are definitely a team to watch this offseason. Al Horford, Lou Williams and John Jenkins are the only players with guaranteed contracts for next season. Atlanta is keeping their options open and they’re expected to be very active this summer, pursuing some of the top players available. As a result, Teague’s future is somewhat up in the air. He’ll become a restricted free agent this summer, which means Atlanta can match any offer that he receives. If the Hawks can land someone like Chris Paul or Brandon Jennings, Teague is likely gone. However, Teague could be re-signed and put alongside Atlanta’s new pieces. It’s difficult to predict what’s going to happen with the 24-year-old point guard until we know what the Hawks are going to do.

J.J. Redick – Shooting Guard – Milwaukee Buck

This has been a breakout season for Redick, who is averaging career-highs across the board. The 28-year-old shooting guard will have plenty of potential suitors this summer, judging by the long list of teams that were interested in acquiring him prior to the trade deadline. Redick ultimately ended up with the Bucks, but he’ll weigh all of his options this summer. After coming off of the bench for most of his career, Redick may be seeking a starting job. Also, he’ll likely want to join a contender since he’s accustomed to winning and making deep postseason runs.

Carl Landry – Power Forward – Golden State Warriors

Every time Landry becomes a free agent, he seems to fly under the radar. That may change this summer since the 29-year-old has been extremely productive with the Warriors. Landry has helped Golden State establish themselves as a playoff team in the Western Conference, even though they’ve been missing Andrew Bogut for much of the season. Landry has provided a spark off of the bench and never once complained about his role. There should be a larger market for Landry this summer since he has thrived in Golden State and proven, once again, that he’s an excellent team player.

Andray Blatche – Power Forward – Brooklyn Nets

Even though Blatche has had an excellent season with the Nets after signing a non-guaranteed, veteran’s minimum deal last summer, it’s unlikely that any team will be willing to give the 26-year-old a huge contract. Blatche is still viewed as a risky acquisition after being characterized as a team cancer with the Washington Wizards and ultimately being amnestied by the team last offseason. Blatche has played well and he’ll certainly have more suitors this summer than last, but don’t expect a long-term commitment from a team right away.

Andrei Kirilenko – Small Forward – Minnesota Timberwolves

Last summer, there were some question marks surrounding Kirilenko since he had played overseas during the lockout-shortened season and looked like a shell of himself during his final season with the Utah Jazz in 2010-11. However, the 32-year-old has played well in Minnesota, starting every game and thriving despite all of the injuries that the Timberwolves have sustained. Kirilenko has shown that he can still fill a box score on a nightly basis. Kirilenko can opt out of the final year of his contract and become an unrestricted free agent this summer, but it’s hard to imagine him walking away from $10,219,420.
Read more at http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-pm-ranking-the-2013-free-agents/#OruqM2R6f5xLXXti.99

Derek2k3
03-01-2013, 03:49 PM
David will do the right thing and sign for $6M per so the Pacers can contend.

Honestly though, I think people don't understand that David will be looked at as an upgrade at the 4 for all but a small handful of teams. He's gonna get paid, by the Pacers or someone else.

boombaby1987
03-01-2013, 03:50 PM
3 year 45 million deal is what I see coming.

Doddage
03-01-2013, 03:52 PM
3 year 45 million deal is what I see coming.
No way. That's an overpay even by Donnie's standards.

HickeyS2000
03-01-2013, 03:54 PM
3 year 45 million deal is what I see coming.

Let him walk for that money. I was thinking 3/36.

owl
03-01-2013, 04:13 PM
Let him walk for that money. I was thinking 3/36.


I really hope he is re-signed. If they lose him then they will have to go after another PF free agent.

immortality
03-01-2013, 04:24 PM
3 year 45 million deal is what I see coming.

Tim Duncan is getting 3/30, you really think West is going to get 3/45.

Cousy47
03-01-2013, 05:04 PM
Tim Duncan is getting 3/30, you really think West is going to get 3/45.

Duncan is going to retire at SAS and his jersey is going in the rafters. He took a pay cut to stay home and help his team. West has been a Pacer for 2 years and took much less than he was worth to keep a 2 year contract. West is gonna get PAID this next contract! 3/40?

vincognito
03-01-2013, 05:48 PM
I really hope he is re-signed. If they lose him then they will have to go after another PF free agent.

Could Granger move to PF full time? That would really solve the cap issues

Hicks
03-01-2013, 05:51 PM
I'm kind of hoping that we offer him more years to try to get less per year. Maybe something like four years 44 million.

Derek2k3
03-01-2013, 06:56 PM
I really hope he is re-signed. If they lose him then they will have to go after another PF free agent.

Millsap is an option, he'll probably be there for around $10M-$12M


I'm kind of hoping that we offer him more years to try to get less per year. Maybe something like four years 44 million.

Bingo. Years over cash. I have a hard time seeing him get less than $13M per on a 3 year deal. Give him 4 years and you can get a pretty good discount. Shoot, give him a 4 year deal with a 5th year team option :)

Here's the issue:
If you give David 4/$44M, PG gets his extension 5/$80M, you're left with about $7.5M to sign Danny or his replacement, Lance, a backup 1, a backup 4.

It's imperative that Indy finds a way to dump Greens contract, that $3.5M would help in a big way when it comes to re-signing Lance or Danny (No way the Pacers can sign both, unfortunately.)

Honestly, the way I look at it, Indy needs to sell out to win this/next year. Everything after that is a question mark. Indy should absolutely be in "Win-now" mode IMO.

Miller_time04
03-01-2013, 06:58 PM
Idk if I want to resign him for more than ten mil a year. How much do you guys think Milsap will fetch? More or less than David?

Derek2k3
03-01-2013, 07:04 PM
Idk if I want to resign him for more than ten mil a year. How much do you guys think Milsap will fetch? More or less than David?

I'd expect less or the same.

immortality
03-01-2013, 07:32 PM
Duncan is going to retire at SAS and his jersey is going in the rafters. He took a pay cut to stay home and help his team. West has been a Pacer for 2 years and took much less than he was worth to keep a 2 year contract. West is gonna get PAID this next contract! 3/40?

I'll take that bet. He won't get more than 11 at the age of 33 and turning older.

pizza guy
03-01-2013, 10:58 PM
Watching West this year, and knowing Walsh is in the office, I'm guessing West gets a blank check with an endless contract. And, I'd be pretty much ok with that.

Here's another thought, though. And, I know I might get banned for this...

Let David walk, do a sign & trade deal that sends Roy, Greene, picks, etc. to Los Angeles and brings Dwight Howard here.

PaceBalls
03-01-2013, 11:16 PM
I feel like the Pacers have to keep David, but how can that work while still keeping Lance and PG when their paydays come? David might love his teammates and everything, but I doubt he will pass up a huge payday from another team if he gets the chance.

It really becomes a juggling act of who stays and who goes. I think Danny will be the odd man out after next year. I don't know, but it's a good problem to have instead of counting the days until Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy's contracts expire.

It sucks we won't be able to keep everyone and I think this team's best chance to win it all is this season.

Jessen
03-01-2013, 11:18 PM
Watching West this year, and knowing Walsh is in the office, I'm guessing West gets a blank check with an endless contract. And, I'd be pretty much ok with that.

Here's another thought, though. And, I know I might get banned for this...

Let David walk, do a sign & trade deal that sends Roy, Greene, picks, etc. to Los Angeles and brings Dwight Howard here.

Dwight is a prima donna/team chemistry bomb. I don't want him although it would fill the stadium. West needs to be resigned for this team to compete, hopefully around the 12-13 mil a year mark. I don't think we can resign Danny at the end of next year as sad as that makes me.

Pacerized
03-01-2013, 11:24 PM
I'll take that bet. He won't get more than 11 at the age of 33 and turning older.
I'd take that bet as well. I'd say somewhere between 10-12 for 3-4 years will be his next contract. The longer the deal the less per year. I'd like to see the Pacers land him for 4/40 but 4/44 would still be a good value.
In spite of how the author ranks them, I still see Milsap and Jefferson ahead of West in for free agent big men due to their ages and the fact that Jefferson is a center. The list of teams willing to overpay to bring in a free agent has dwindled. Just who would offer West anything more then 12 mil?
I don't see any team with cap space doing it.

Pacerized
03-01-2013, 11:26 PM
I feel like the Pacers have to keep David, but how can that work while still keeping Lance and PG when their paydays come? David might love his teammates and everything, but I doubt he will pass up a huge payday from another team if he gets the chance.

It really becomes a juggling act of who stays and who goes. I think Danny will be the odd man out after next year. I don't know, but it's a good problem to have instead of counting the days until Troy Murphy and Mike Dunleavy's contracts expire.
It sucks we won't be able to keep everyone and I think this team's best chance to win it all is this season.


I think we can keep West, Granger and still give PG the max. I'd rather lose Lance then any of the others. I know he's developed into a good combo guard but he'll never be on the level of the other 3 and combo guards can be replaced much easier then a play like Granger can.

joew8302
03-01-2013, 11:27 PM
Either Lance, West or Granger won't be here too much longer IMO. Unless Indiana makes a major roster change and cuts salary one of these guys will have to be moving on.

Eleazar
03-02-2013, 04:02 PM
I think a lot of your are overestimating how much West will be offered in FA. You have to remember his age, while there are other younger PF's out there that are going to be more attractive than a guy like West as they will be looked at long term solutions. While West will only be looked at as a short term solution. Not only that, but how many championship contenders out there have the money to pay West that much?

If the Pacers and West are smart West will be signed to a 3 or 4 year contract that decreases each year. Allowing West to maximize his worth, but giving the Pacers more flexibility in the future with keeping the team together to win a championship. Everyone wins. Hopefully we can get Granger to sign a similar kind of contract, while Lance is signed to a flat contract.

rexnom
03-02-2013, 04:06 PM
West is the most important player on this team. They won't let him walk.

OakMoses
03-02-2013, 06:29 PM
Could Granger move to PF full time? That would really solve the cap issues

Unloading Hibbert's contract would help more.

joew8302
03-02-2013, 06:33 PM
Unloading Hibbert's contract would help more.

Good point, we could do that.

Lets also let PG go, and trade Hill. We will have a great cap situation then!

Wage
03-02-2013, 06:50 PM
Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?

dohman
03-02-2013, 06:56 PM
Granger is going to be the odd man out. There is no way to field a bench unless the pacers only want to run 7. There are going to be huge gaps in the lineup here in the future if we try to pay everyone. Granger is the type of player youmwantin your lineup, the problem is we have proved we can be this good without him with a very young team thatis only going to get better. If lances game continues I believe heirs the one pacers are going to lock up due to his abilities on defense and how he can distribute the ball.

OakMoses
03-02-2013, 07:32 PM
Good point, we could do that.

Lets also let PG go, and trade Hill. We will have a great cap situation then!

Yes. That is exactly what I meant.

dal9
03-02-2013, 10:18 PM
In the Bynum one, first sentence, they mis-spelled "least"

CableKC
03-02-2013, 11:32 PM
Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?
Assuming that Granger is not moved be fore the 2013-2014 trade deadline.....are the Pacers able to go over the SalaryCap to sign West to a $10-12 mil / 3-4 year contract offer?

What advantages do the Pacers have that others won't when it comes to re-signing West?

Gamble1
03-03-2013, 01:02 AM
Assuming that Granger is not moved be fore the 2013-2014 trade deadline.....are the Pacers able to go over the SalaryCap to sign West to a $10-12 mil / 3-4 year contract offer?

What advantages do the Pacers have that others won't when it comes to re-signing West?


I already posted on this in another thread but I only see West going to a playoff team and really there are only a few options there.

You got maybe the Hawks but that still puts Al Horford at the Center postion. The Mavs don't make sense since they would have to play West at center. The Rockets could go after him but they are loaded with pfs now.

Really those are the only future playoff teams I see him having a shot at but even those are a risky moves. THe max I would offer is 12 million for 3 years but hopefully its another 2 year deal.

PaceBalls
03-03-2013, 01:26 AM
I think we can keep West, Granger and still give PG the max. I'd rather lose Lance then any of the others. I know he's developed into a good combo guard but he'll never be on the level of the other 3 and combo guards can be replaced much easier then a play like Granger can.

The thing is, when Lance is 26 and in his prime Danny will be retired. Danny is almost 30 with a bum knee and Lance is 22...

CableKC
03-03-2013, 01:31 AM
I already posted on this in another thread but I only see West going to a playoff team and really there are only a few options there.

You got maybe the Hawks but that still puts Al Horford at the Center postion. The Mavs don't make sense since they would have to play West at center. The Rockets could go after him but they are loaded with pfs now.

Really those are the only future playoff teams I see him having a shot at but even those are a risky moves. THe max I would offer is 12 million for 3 years but hopefully its another 2 year deal.
I didn't see your other post....but your response doesn't really answer my question.

Are the Pacers able to go over the Salary Cap and Luxury Tax to sign West?

Because he's a UFA, can the last Team that he signed with sign him to a longer contract?

What advantages ( if any ) does the Pacers have that may allow him to sign with them ( over other Teams )?

I know that he can leave for any Team that he chooses....but the question is whether the Pacers have any built-in Advantages to re-signing him.

Richard_Skull
03-03-2013, 04:52 AM
My question is, what and how many teams are there that can go after West?

PR07
03-03-2013, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I'd go as high as three years 36 million. We could always replace West with someone else, but I think what we can't replace are the leadership, toughness, and intangibles he brings.

Pacerized
03-03-2013, 09:50 AM
My question is, what and how many teams are there that can go after West?


I kind of brought that up earlier. A lot of doom and gloom out there from the fan base thinking that West is going to be offered some 15+ mil contract from another team with no real idea as to who is going to do this. I could understand someone offering Hibbert the max. A young center coming off his first all star game with what should be his best ball ahead of him and he was the best big man available that summer.
West is in a different situation he's the oldest of 5 very good big men free agents this summer and due to that he's most likely going to be the 5th. choice and I'd even say Bynum will most likely be higher on the list for most teams then West only because he's younger and a center which would put West as the 6th. most desirable big man on the market next summer. At the very least I don't think any team is going to be on his doorstep at midnight with a huge offer that the Pacers can't afford to match.

Pacerized
03-03-2013, 09:58 AM
The thing is, when Lance is 26 and in his prime Danny will be retired. Danny is almost 30 with a bum knee and Lance is 22...

I really doubt if Granger retires at 33-34 years old. I really like Lance but he's a combo guard averaging 8 ppg as a starter. His best ball is ahead of him but I don't see him ever reaching the level of Granger and it's a lot easier to replace what Lance does then it is to replace what Granger does. If Lance really develops and Granger returns to form then someone has to be the odd man out. I think we just need to let this play out until the trade deadline next season. If Granger returns to form then we trade Lance, if not then Granger won't be getting the money and we should be able to afford both players.

vincognito
03-03-2013, 10:55 AM
His best ball is ahead of him but I don't see him ever reaching the level of Granger and it's a lot easier to replace what Lance does then it is to replace what Granger does.

Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.

Pacerized
03-03-2013, 11:09 AM
Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.

Most of Danny's shots aren't going to come from Lance or PG but a few will, however Danny taking those shots will add 8-10 ppg to our total score most nights while he also adds a defensive element that Lance can't. We'll just have to disagree on the replacement part. Finding a 3/4 that can score 20 and defend is a lot harder then finding a combo guard which is what Lance is. Not to take away from him but I doubt if Lance ever avarges 18-20 ppg in his career at least not a good team. I am very happy in the way Lance has developed and well aware of what he does other then score, that still doesn't come close to giving what Danny does. I hope we can keep both but if I have to pick my poison it would be in trading Lance not Danny.

vincognito
03-03-2013, 11:15 AM
Most of Danny's shots aren't going to come from Lance or PG but a few will, however Danny taking those shots will add 8-10 ppg to our total score most nights while he also adds a defensive element that Lance can't. We'll just have to disagree on the replacement part. Finding a 3/4 that can score 20 and defend is a lot harder then finding a combo guard which is what Lance is. Not to take away from him but I doubt if Lance ever avarges 18-20 ppg in his career at least not a good team. I am very happy in the way Lance has developed and well aware of what he does other then score, that still doesn't come close to giving what Danny does. I hope we can keep both but if I have to pick my poison it would be in trading Lance not Danny.

I agree he would help our offense if he is taking shots away from our bench players but if he's in the starting lineup he will be taking shots away from the other starters.

Not all combo guards are the same. Some are jerryd bayless and some are russell westbrook. I wouldn't call lance a combo guard anyway i think he's a big pg who is being played at sg.

PacerPenguins
03-03-2013, 11:30 AM
If we lose DWest, this Pacers team will struggle to score at times. If we only had to pay Roy 10 mil a year, I would give West a max contract. Dude is the heart and sould of this team, he is the emotional leader, he has so much left in the tank and I feel he could start and keep contributing the same numbers he has this and last year for the next four years. No way we give him max but if he isnt retained by this Pacers team, I see it as a HUGE setback

Justin Tyme
03-03-2013, 11:33 AM
Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?


It will plus DWest age will be a factor as well. To me, if Dwest wants as long contract it means less salary.

If the contract is front loaded, you might get him at an acceptable salary at a reasonable amount of years.

Justin Tyme
03-03-2013, 11:47 AM
To me, you keep Dwest, and trade Granger. PG fills the SF/wing position that Granger plays while the Pacers have no one to replace DWest at PF or his leadership ability. If Dwest isn't re-signed, the Pacers will be looking for both a starting and b/u PF for next season. You sign re-sign Dwest to a reasonable salary and for a reasonable amount of years... nothing overboard on either.

yoadknux
03-03-2013, 11:54 AM
Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.
So according to your theory if you give Lance the number of shots Durant takes, he's going to be a top 5 scorer?

PR07
03-03-2013, 12:04 PM
Lance is the one who is hard to replace while Danny is kind of replacable. Granger is a great 3 point shooter, can shoot off the dribble a bit and plays average defense. No offense to Danny but there are cheaper players who can shoot. Granger has been a high scorer over the years because he was the #1 option for a while and given the opportunity to take that many shots. Put Lance in that role and see how much he can score. At this point, we don't need another player in the starting lineup to take that many shots. Danny taking 10 shots a game and PG taking 12 doesn't make us better than PG taking 15 and Lance taking 7. Lance has many intangibles to his game with his bball iq, passing, and ability to run the fast break. He makes his teammates better with his abilities and that shows in stats. He also is a very talented scorer already and the only reason he averages 8 ppg is because he understands his role right now in this lineup.

Have to think this is a very "sunny" picture of Lance Stephenson. Not saying some of it isn't true, but let's not act like Lance can do no wrong with the basketball. His jumpshot is still fairly hit or miss, and he still has a tendency to play out of control at times. Even with Granger's past shot attempts, I'm not sure he's suddenly an efficient 20+ ppg scorer if he'd be at all.

BlueNGold
03-03-2013, 12:17 PM
Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?

After watching West abuse Landry, I would leave Carl off the list. I think Jefferson, Smith and possibly Millsap are at a higher level.

I hope we get him to sign for about 12M/yr...or if he needs more a shorter 2 year contract again. By the time a 4 year contract ends, he will be well into his decline.

vincognito
03-03-2013, 12:18 PM
So according to your theory if you give Lance the number of shots Durant takes, he's going to be a top 5 scorer?

I think the number of shots you can take is based on your role on the team and your ability to get your type of shot. If you are a number one option but you are slow and all you can do is dunk, you won't get many good chances, and won't score many points even if you chuck up 20 shots. A player like durant can get his shot at will because of his handling, athleticism, iq, and shooting ability. Durant also gets to the free throw line a lot which is the main reason why he is a top 5 scorer. He is only taking 18 shots a game. Lance can create shots off the dribble, drive, now he can spot up shoot, and he can get good looks for himself on fast breaks. He doesn't get to the free throw line at all right now but I would expect he would if he was handling and driving a lot more. I don't think lance would be able to get as many good looks or free throws as durant so i don't think he would do well in that role. I do think he has the ability to be a number 1 or 2 option, taking at least 14/15 shots. Also i don't mean that he needs to be taking that many shots, just that he could. I prefer him being a facilitator and using his abilities.

vincognito
03-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Have to think this is a very "sunny" picture of Lance Stephenson. Not saying some of it isn't true, but let's not act like Lance can do no wrong with the basketball. His jumpshot is still fairly hit or miss, and he still has a tendency to play out of control at times. Even with Granger's past shot attempts, I'm not sure he's suddenly an efficient 20+ ppg scorer if he'd be at all.

I agree he's not there yet but he's on his way at 22 years old.

CooperManning
03-03-2013, 12:40 PM
I've thought about this a lot over the last week or so, and Danny's unlikely be a Pacer much longer. I've always liked the guy, but Paul and Lance moved into the starting lineup and made him a cap causality. It's pretty simple.

Hibbert: max. ($13-15 mil)
Paul George: inevitable max. ($13-15 mil)
D-West: ~10 mil
George Hill: $8 mil

four guys, ~$46 mil

Gerald Green ($3.5 mil - 2 more years...sigh)
Ian M. - ($4 mil)

total: $7.5

Committed to six players:
$53.5 mil

Luxury tax threshold: ~$70 mil

So there's basically one more decent-sized chunk we could give someone, and then fill out the bench. I believe that someone will be Lance, but one thing is for sure: Granger and Lance can't coexist for much longer.

It should be noted that all of this could change if we don't bring back D-West, but I don't think there's anyone that doesn't want to bring back D-West.

yoadknux
03-03-2013, 12:50 PM
I think the number of shots you can take is based on your role on the team and your ability to get your type of shot. If you are a number one option but you are slow and all you can do is dunk, you won't get many good chances. A player like durant can get his shot at will because of his handling, athleticism, iq, and shooting ability. Durant also gets to the free throw line a lot which is a big reason why he can score so much. Lance can create shots off the dribble, drive, now he can spot up shoot, and he can get good looks for himself on fast breaks. He doesn't get to the free throw line at all right now but I would expect he would if he was handling and driving a lot more. I don't think lance would be able to get as many good looks as durant and wouldn't have a great percentage or as high point totals if he tried. I doubt lance can get 20 quality shots a game and get 10 free throws but he has the ability to be a number 1 or 2 option, taking at least 14/15 shots. Also i don't mean that he needs to be taking that many shots, just that he could. I prefer him being a facilitator and using his abilities.
There's a very good reason why only about 10 players in the league average 20+ ppg. That reason is talent. If you're a talented scorer, then you're going to get many shot opportunities. Lance is not a talented scorer. His range isn't all that great, he hasn't shown to be a superb slasher, finisher or a guy who gets to the line. Granger on the other hand always had great range, developed a decent post game and managed to get to the line consistently, and that's the reason he was able to score so many points.
This really reminds me of the start of the season when people predicted Gerald Green would score 18 ppg on 45% from the field. The fact a rotation player has good sample size scoring doesn't mean that if you expand that sample he's going to be a good scorer. If this were the case, every team in the league would have some "hidden superstar" on the bench just waiting to get 18 FGA and lead the league in scoring.

vincognito
03-03-2013, 12:59 PM
There's a very good reason why only about 10 players in the league average 20+ ppg. That reason is talent. If you're a talented scorer, then you're going to get many shot opportunities. Lance is not a talented scorer. His range isn't all that great, he hasn't shown to be a superb slasher, finisher or a guy who gets to the line. Granger on the other hand always had great range, developed a decent post game and managed to get to the line consistently, and that's the reason he was able to score so many points.
This really reminds me of the start of the season when people predicted Gerald Green would score 18 ppg on 45% from the field. The fact a rotation player has good sample size scoring doesn't mean that if you expand that sample he's going to be a good scorer. If this were the case, every team in the league would have some "hidden superstar" on the bench just waiting to get 18 FGA and lead the league in scoring.

Fair point but lance does have a lot more talent than gerald green. I'm not basing it on his stats, i believe in his actual talent to be a scorer. I've seen a player that can get to the rim very well from his dribble drives, finish in traffic, he is a threat from 3, and he is great in the open court. I think you are underrating him a bit.

Also I never was trying to suggest that he should be taking more shots, his role is perfect for this team

PacerPenguins
03-03-2013, 01:52 PM
I've thought about this a lot over the last week or so, and Danny's unlikely be a Pacer much longer. I've always liked the guy, but Paul and Lance moved into the starting lineup and made him a cap causality. It's pretty simple.

Hibbert: max. ($13-15 mil)
Paul George: inevitable max. ($13-15 mil)
D-West: ~10 mil
George Hill: $8 mil

four guys, ~$46 mil

Gerald Green ($3.5 mil - 2 more years...sigh)
Ian M. - ($4 mil)

total: $7.5

Committed to six players:
$53.5 mil

Luxury tax threshold: ~$70 mil

So there's basically one more decent-sized chunk we could give someone, and then fill out the bench. I believe that someone will be Lance, but one thing is for sure: Granger and Lance can't coexist for much longer.

It should be noted that all of this could change if we don't bring back D-West, but I don't think there's anyone that doesn't want to bring back D-West.

trade Danny for a quality backup PG, I think we should resign Hans too

Gamble1
03-03-2013, 02:55 PM
I didn't see your other post....but your response doesn't really answer my question.

Are the Pacers able to go over the Salary Cap and Luxury Tax to sign West?

Because he's a UFA, can the last Team that he signed with sign him to a longer contract?

What advantages ( if any ) does the Pacers have that may allow him to sign with them ( over other Teams )?

I know that he can leave for any Team that he chooses....but the question is whether the Pacers have any built-in Advantages to re-signing him.
He has early bird rights so yes we have an advantage over other teams.

http://www.pacersdigest.com/showthread.php?75791-Keeping-David-West/page6

yoadknux
03-03-2013, 02:59 PM
Fair point but lance does have a lot more talent than gerald green. I'm not basing it on his stats, i believe in his actual talent to be a scorer. I've seen a player that can get to the rim very well from his dribble drives, finish in traffic, he is a threat from 3, and he is great in the open court. I think you are underrating him a bit.

Also I never was trying to suggest that he should be taking more shots, his role is perfect for this team
I think his ceiling is a decent all-around starter or a 6th man. I just don't see him as a good scorer. He doesn't have that mentality, I haven't really seen him go on fire and start torching the opponent (maybe just once and even then it was 9 points or something)

vincognito
03-03-2013, 03:16 PM
I think his ceiling is a decent all-around starter or a 6th man. I just don't see him as a good scorer. He doesn't have that mentality, I haven't really seen him go on fire and start torching the opponent (maybe just once and even then it was 9 points or something)

we'll see if he becomes a more agressive scorer when coming off the bench

mrknowname
03-03-2013, 04:27 PM
trade Danny for a quality backup PG, I think we should resign Hans too

Hans has what, a $4.5 million qualifying offer? i think you can find similar production for cheaper

CableKC
03-03-2013, 04:41 PM
After watching West abuse Landry, I would leave Carl off the list. I think Jefferson, Smith and possibly Millsap are at a higher level.

I hope we get him to sign for about 12M/yr...or if he needs more a shorter 2 year contract again. By the time a 4 year contract ends, he will be well into his decline.
I'm inclined to either go after Landry as a Backup PF or just live with Hansbrough. Landry is a very efficient scorer and is also good at doing what Hansbrough does....get to the Free Throw line.

CableKC
03-03-2013, 04:43 PM
Hans has what, a $4.5 million qualifying offer? i think you can find similar production for cheaper
I hadn't checked.....what Backup PF free agents will be available this upcoming Season?

shags
03-03-2013, 04:58 PM
trade Danny for a quality backup PG, I think we should resign Hans too

There's a lot of variables for the Pacers. If they win the championship or make the Finals, then I'd imagine they'd keep their top 7 (current starting five plus Granger and Mahinmi).

But if they lose before then, especially before the ECF, then a smart thing could be to do what the Spurs did with George Hill. Remember, the Spurs LOVED George Hill. But they knew they couldn't pay him, so they traded him to the Pacers for Kawhi Leonard, and re-set the clock back 4 years before they had to pay a big amount for a contributor.

Could the Pacers get a lottery pick for Granger and re-set the clock, like the Spurs did, to pay a player? It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out and how it affects what the Pacers do this summer.

mrknowname
03-03-2013, 05:29 PM
I hadn't checked.....what Backup PF free agents will be available this upcoming Season?

i haven't checked either, but they could target somebody like http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jackie-Carmichael-19449/ in the late first/early second round

Gamble1
03-03-2013, 06:17 PM
Hans has what, a $4.5 million qualifying offer? i think you can find similar production for cheaper

Pendergraph is worth a shot and the Pacers will have to go cheaper on the backups since a lot of money is being spent on guys like Green who aren't even playing.

Sparhawk
03-03-2013, 08:33 PM
I really want Jarrett Jack and Corey Brewer (and Brewer only if Granger is moved). Those are the two highest on my list of FAs. West better be resigned, but hopefully not something ridiculous. He's 32. No reason to over invest. I worry that Walsh is gonna over pay for FAs.

wintermute
03-04-2013, 04:49 AM
Does anyone think having so many good players that can play the PF position being in this free agency pool might help bring the prices down a bit? I mean you have West, Jefferson, Milsap, Smith, even Landry that can all play the position at a high level. Supply is high, so maybe that could help?

Maybe, but IMO West is the best of the lot. Some teams will prefer Smoove, but I think he's the prototypical million-dollar-talent-with-a-ten-cent head. West's age will scare away some teams though, which is probably the best we can hope for.

As I've said before, anywhere between $12m-$15m per year won't surprise me.




Are the Pacers able to go over the Salary Cap and Luxury Tax to sign West?



Gamble already answered, but yeah we can go over the cap up to 175% of his old contract (1.75 * $10m = $17.5m) due to early bird rights, which should be more than enough. We can offer higher raises, but since he's not getting a max contract, other teams can compensate by offering a higher starting salary.

wintermute
03-04-2013, 05:24 AM
There's a lot of variables for the Pacers. If they win the championship or make the Finals, then I'd imagine they'd keep their top 7 (current starting five plus Granger and Mahinmi).

But if they lose before then, especially before the ECF, then a smart thing could be to do what the Spurs did with George Hill. Remember, the Spurs LOVED George Hill. But they knew they couldn't pay him, so they traded him to the Pacers for Kawhi Leonard, and re-set the clock back 4 years before they had to pay a big amount for a contributor.

Could the Pacers get a lottery pick for Granger and re-set the clock, like the Spurs did, to pay a player? It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out and how it affects what the Pacers do this summer.

Agreed.

I think the Pacers will either trade Granger next summer if they can get value, otherwise they'll just hang on to him and let his contract expire.


Unloading Hibbert's contract would help more.

I get what you're saying, but how much can we save by replacing him with a comparable center? Unless you're happy with Mahinmi starting?

Downtown Bang!
03-04-2013, 06:06 AM
Based on what I've seen in limited playing time I wouldn't be afraid to roll with Pendergraph filling the Tyler role. He doesn't bring the physicality that Hansbrough does but is just as good a rebounder, better shot blocker and IMO actually improves the flow of the bench offense.

Green and his salary needs to go. Having said that short of some under the cap, celler dweller team looking for highlight reel dunks to keep the psuedo fans in the seats who is going to take him without demanding a draft pick for the favor?

Pacerized
03-04-2013, 10:02 AM
I hadn't checked.....what Backup PF free agents will be available this upcoming Season?

I think we might be able to afford his 1 yr QO only because it's just for 1 yr. Tyler won't get paid that much anyway but we can't afford to give Tyler or any free agent pf to a long term deal. Free agents, even 2-3 mil per year free agents are out of the question until the team signs West, Granger, and PG long term.

Justin Tyme
03-04-2013, 02:33 PM
Based on what I've seen in limited playing time I wouldn't be afraid to roll with Pendergraph filling the Tyler role. He doesn't bring the physicality that Hansbrough does but is just as good a rebounder, better shot blocker and IMO actually improves the flow of the bench offense.

Green and his salary needs to go. Having said that short of some under the cap, celler dweller team looking for highlight reel dunks to keep the psuedo fans in the seats who is going to take him without demanding a draft pick for the favor?



Are you saying you wouldn't trade Plumlee or the 013 pick to get out from under Green's contract?

To me it would depend on who the player being taken back is and their contract as to whether I'd do it, AND yes I'd strongly consider doing it to get rid of Green/contract.

Trader Joe
03-04-2013, 02:41 PM
How different is this team's record right now without West? I would say at a minimum they would be 30-30 as opposed to 38-22. He has moved into the same spot we were in with Roy last year, you have to pay him whatever the value is.

Trader Joe
03-04-2013, 02:43 PM
There's a lot of variables for the Pacers. If they win the championship or make the Finals, then I'd imagine they'd keep their top 7 (current starting five plus Granger and Mahinmi).

But if they lose before then, especially before the ECF, then a smart thing could be to do what the Spurs did with George Hill. Remember, the Spurs LOVED George Hill. But they knew they couldn't pay him, so they traded him to the Pacers for Kawhi Leonard, and re-set the clock back 4 years before they had to pay a big amount for a contributor.

Could the Pacers get a lottery pick for Granger and re-set the clock, like the Spurs did, to pay a player? It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out and how it affects what the Pacers do this summer.

Isn't Lance technically more like George Hill (young player due to get paid) than Granger? I mean I'm sure the Pacers might like to have their cake and eat it too, but is Danny going to get you there? I don't know maybe.

Gamble1
03-04-2013, 02:45 PM
Are you saying you wouldn't trade Plumlee or the 013 pick to get out from under Green's contract?

To me it would depend on who the player being taken back is and their contract as to whether I'd do it, AND yes I'd strongly consider doing it to get rid of Green/contract.
I would do it for a second rounder but at this point you have to consider how much you save getting rid of him vs how much you save by drafting a guy on a rookie contract.

Say we don't go after a backup pg and just draft a player for that role. In the end your looking at saving somewhere between 2-3 million depending on how you look at free agent contracts like DJ Augustine. The net savings wouldn't be that much just to get rid of Green.

A second rounder is a no brainer IMO but I am not sure that would be enough to bait a team into taking his contract.

Downtown Bang!
03-05-2013, 06:51 AM
Are you saying you wouldn't trade Plumlee or the 013 pick to get out from under Green's contract?

To me it would depend on who the player being taken back is and their contract as to whether I'd do it, AND yes I'd strongly consider doing it to get rid of Green/contract.

I'd absolutely consider it if we were dealing with a team under the cap who didn't need to send salary back. Even then I'd want to wait and see if the right player might fall to the team in the draft.

If the Pacers have to take salary back then it absolutely needs to be a short-term contract guy who could replace D.J. as the back-up point or a legit big who could fit into the rotation.

Otherwise I think they just have to eat the contract and let it expire while Green rides the bench. Hopefully the ultimate cost of this signing isn't seeing Lance walk after next year.

PacerPride33
03-05-2013, 08:47 AM
still dreaming of mayo being our 6th man

Sollozzo
03-05-2013, 09:11 AM
There's a lot of variables for the Pacers. If they win the championship or make the Finals, then I'd imagine they'd keep their top 7 (current starting five plus Granger and Mahinmi).

But if they lose before then, especially before the ECF, then a smart thing could be to do what the Spurs did with George Hill. Remember, the Spurs LOVED George Hill. But they knew they couldn't pay him, so they traded him to the Pacers for Kawhi Leonard, and re-set the clock back 4 years before they had to pay a big amount for a contributor.

Could the Pacers get a lottery pick for Granger and re-set the clock, like the Spurs did, to pay a player? It'll be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out and how it affects what the Pacers do this summer.

I don't think anyone would trade us anything decent for Granger this off-season unless he logs some heavy minutes down the stretch and shows that his knee is OK. And even then, I still think that teams might be hesitant. They'd probably insist that we take on a bad contract or something. He does only have one year remaining on his contract, so that does lessen the risk for any team that would be acquiring him. I think that Granger's value will be highest at the trade deadline next year because then his contract will be expiring in just a matter of months. Regardless, I still think the Pacers will just let him play the contract out.

Coopdog23
03-05-2013, 10:48 AM
Chris Paul will stay in LA. Why would he leave?

Dgreenwell3
03-05-2013, 12:21 PM
Chris Paul will stay in LA. Why would he leave?

There is alot of speculation out here if the clippers are willing to make a long term investment to make this a winner (entering luxury cap area)