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View Full Version : Is David West the best power forward in the NBA?



BlueCollarColts
02-27-2013, 03:56 PM
He is averaging 17.4 ppg on nearly 50% shooting, and everyone who watches the Pacers knows that the guy is clutch, and like other star forwards like Griffin he has Chris Paul as his point guard, no offense to George Hill because he is a good player, but he is not Chris Paul, so is David West the best power forward in the Nba?

boombaby1987
02-27-2013, 03:57 PM
No.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 03:57 PM
Hahahahaha

Unclebuck
02-27-2013, 03:59 PM
He might be, some of it depends on who you classify as a power forward and who you classify as a center. I mean is Tim Duncan a center?

QuickRelease
02-27-2013, 04:00 PM
He may not be, but I think it is far from a laughable suggestion. I'm trying to think who is hands down better than he is right now.

ErikD.
02-27-2013, 04:01 PM
I wouldn't want any other.

boombaby1987
02-27-2013, 04:02 PM
I would take Zach Randolph, Blake Griffin, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Kevin Love over David.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:04 PM
He may not be, but I think it is far from a laughable suggestion. I'm trying to think who is hands down better than he is right now.

Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Blake Griffin, and Kevin Garnett. Hands down.

Then you have guys like Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Zach Randolph, and Pau Gasol who all have arguments.

I love David West. He's great. But this thread is just silly.

boombaby1987
02-27-2013, 04:05 PM
Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Blake Griffin, and Kevin Garnett. Hands down.

Then you have guys like Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Zach Randolph, and Pau Gasol who all have arguments.

I love David West. He's great. But this thread is just silly.

No way I take Dirk or Kevin Garnett over D-West.

Unclebuck
02-27-2013, 04:08 PM
I would take Zach Randolph, Blake Griffin, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Kevin Love over David.

Not right now I would not. Love is injured and has been most of the year. Griffin is overrated IMO. Aldridge is really good - he is the only one I might take right now. Zack? I think David is better

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:08 PM
No way I take Dirk or Kevin Garnett over D-West.

You'd rather have Z-Bo than KG or Dirk?

PGisthefuture
02-27-2013, 04:09 PM
I'll take Griffin, Love, Ibaka, and maybe Nowitzki over him.

QuickRelease
02-27-2013, 04:09 PM
Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Blake Griffin, and Kevin Garnett. Hands down.

Then you have guys like Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Zach Randolph, and Pau Gasol who all have arguments.

I love David West. He's great. But this thread is just silly.Really? Silly? I disagree. Like I said, they may be better, but it is not laughable to suggest West is up there with them. He has been playing some darn good ball from the PF slot.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:09 PM
There is a huge difference in saying you'd rather have nobody else, and saying he's the best in the league.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:11 PM
Really? Silly? I disagree. Like I said, they may be better, but it is not laughable to suggest West is up there with them. He has been playing some darn good ball from the PF slot.

He had an absolutely monster game last night, and he's a great player. I'm couldn't be happier to have him on the Pacers.

But he isn't the best player at his position. He just isn't. Does this thread get made if he has just an average game last night? Hell no. That's why it's silly.

Since86
02-27-2013, 04:12 PM
West is the best PF in the NBA in terms of his value to the Pacers, but on a purely individual level, no he's not the best.

BlueCollarColts
02-27-2013, 04:12 PM
He might be, some of it depends on who you classify as a power forward and who you classify as a center. I mean is Tim Duncan a center?

I classify Duncan as a center

yoadknux
02-27-2013, 04:12 PM
I think you could make an argument that he has the stats of an elite power forward (compared to other guys this year) and that he has huge presence, but he's not the best PF right now. There are many other players that are having good seasons, like LMA, Duncan, Z-Bo, Griffin, Ibaka, David Lee is having a huge season as well. And you also can't forget about the injured stars, like Dirk and Love.

boombaby1987
02-27-2013, 04:13 PM
Not right now I would not. Love is injured and has been most of the year. Griffin is overrated IMO. Aldridge is really good - he is the only one I might take right now. Zack? I think David is better

I feel like Griffin is discounted so much because"all he does his dunk" Thats just simply not true. He has a really good back to the basket game.

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
Hahahahaha

I don't think he is, but to see if it's as funny as you think, name 5 power forwards who are better right now.

EDIT: Nevermind, see that you already have don't agree with all of it, but no reason to do it again.

Unclebuck
02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
Dirk of this year? No. Dirk of two years ago? Yes!

boombaby1987
02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
You'd rather have Z-Bo than KG or Dirk?

I may not watch the Celtics enough, but I just have a lot less confidence in KG's FT line jumper, than I do D-West scoring on a consistent basis.

graphic-er
02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki, Blake Griffin, and Kevin Garnett. Hands down.

Then you have guys like Kevin Love, LaMarcus Aldridge, Serge Ibaka, Zach Randolph, and Pau Gasol who all have arguments.

I love David West. He's great. But this thread is just silly.

No its not silly or laughable, but the question needs to be rephrased a bit.

Is there any power forward in the league that can stop David West? Thats a pretty legit question, and I'd think you'd agree the answer is no. I think he is without a doubt the strongest PF in the game. Meaning he can back down pretty much any player in the league and get a shot that the wants. Really only ZBO can match is strength, but he does so with his wide body. I don't think West is exactly wide.

Now West's major flaw is that he is not athletic enough to rebound at the rate the other top PFs you have listed. But I would say he isn't weak defender compared to guys like Love and Griffin.

What I find really interesting about West's game is that he was much more of a pick and pop player with CP3, and think most people on here thought that he wasn't going to bang down low, but really he is the exact opposite and thriving at it in our offense.

Ransom
02-27-2013, 04:15 PM
Can we do this for every player? First Paul George now West.

Where's the "George Hill is a top five PG" thread?

MillerTime
02-27-2013, 04:15 PM
what a waste of bandwidth

BlueCollarColts
02-27-2013, 04:15 PM
People need to understand that I classify West as better than Dirk and Aldrige because he is doing this on a winning team, and because he is the best leader of anyone mentioned in this thread

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 04:17 PM
I don't know how to answer this question. I do think it is possible West has the most complete offensive game of any power forward right now. I think Lamarcus is the only other guy up there in that sense.

He's also been very good on defense. He is having the same defensive impact Milsap has in Utah yet you never see any mention West as a great defender, while Milsap has that rep league wide

graphic-er
02-27-2013, 04:18 PM
I will add, that its gonna be a real joy watching him tomorrow night as he destroys Blake Griffin.

vnzla81
02-27-2013, 04:18 PM
Hahaha yeah OK, you guys lol.

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 04:19 PM
Hahaha yeah OK, you guys lol.

I mean he's no Tyler Hansbrough that's for sure.

BlueCollarColts
02-27-2013, 04:20 PM
I think I made this question hard to understand, I am talking about their complete game and what each player brings to the table, more than just how well they score defend and rebound, I include leadership, bball IQ, and other things like that into this, I am talking about everything the player brings to the table, more than just scoring or defending

Goyle
02-27-2013, 04:22 PM
It's not THAT farfetched. He's 4th this season in PER among PFs if you don't count Duncan and the SF/PF hybrids.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:22 PM
The question wasn't is he the best offensive power forward, which he still isn't, although the it's much easier to make that case. It was is he the best power forward. Period. He isn't.

Again, I absolutely love him on this team. But he just is not the best player at his position, and I don't even think that's an argument any one could make.

Nuntius
02-27-2013, 04:23 PM
No, he isn't the best PF in the NBA. But he's a perfect player for us and I hope that we retain him for as long as we can. Plus, he is really among the best. Not the best, of course, but among them.

Outside of Pacers boards, he also is one of the most underrated PFs in the NBA.

RamBo_Lamar
02-27-2013, 04:27 PM
On any given night Mr. West may very well be the best PF in the NBA.

The thing is, he fits this team so perfectly. He brings everything to the table the Pacers need.
From his professionalism, to leadership, to mannerisms, he sets such a great example for his
teammates on how to comport and carry themselves.

I'm not sure I have ever seen anything quite like this before. The Pacers are very very fortunate
to have been able to get a player like him.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:28 PM
I think I made this question hard to understand, I am talking about their complete game and what each player brings to the table, more than just how well they score defend and rebound, I include leadership, bball IQ, and other things like that into this, I am talking about everything the player brings to the table, more than just scoring or defending

He brings a huge amount to the table, and if you had worded your original question like this, it would have been debatable. I think he's the perfect player for this group of young players we have.

But you asked if he is the best PF in the NBA. Nope. He's not.

Day-V
02-27-2013, 04:31 PM
I'd easily take him over Dirk. Post-championship Dirk has been injury-plagued and seen his shooting percentages dip drastically.

Eleazar
02-27-2013, 04:34 PM
Best, probably not. A top PF though, most defiantly. I know the stats don't show it, but he is playing on a completely different level this year than last year.

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 04:35 PM
There's definitely no power forward in the NBA that I would give a positive advantage over West if that makes sense. Except Lebron.

QuickRelease
02-27-2013, 04:36 PM
He had an absolutely monster game last night, and he's a great player. I'm couldn't be happier to have him on the Pacers.

But he isn't the best player at his position. He just isn't. Does this thread get made if he has just an average game last night? Hell no. That's why it's silly.Maybe not, but I also don't think this thread was created just based off of last night's game.

GeniusJMG
02-27-2013, 04:37 PM
Kevin Love and LaMarcus Aldridge are better and maybe Tim Duncan but besides them David is probably ahead of the pack.

QuickRelease
02-27-2013, 04:38 PM
The question wasn't is he the best offensive power forward, which he still isn't, although the it's much easier to make that case. It was is he the best power forward. Period. He isn't.

Again, I absolutely love him on this team. But he just is not the best player at his position, and I don't even think that's an argument any one could make.Fair argument on the defensive side of the rock.

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:39 PM
I'd easily take him over Dirk. Post-championship Dirk has been injury-plagued and seen his shooting percentages dip drastically.

This season has been Dirk's worst in a decade. He's been struggling through injuries, and a being on what really isn't a good team. Yet, he still has basically equaled David West across the board. He's shooting a lower percentage, but his eFG% and TS% are pretty similar. I guess I'm not as willing to dismiss a guy who carried his team to a title, basically on his own, just 2 seasons ago as quickly as you all are. That 2011 playoff run was the greatest individual effort anybody has ever seen. He was totally dominant. As good as David West is, I don't think he has that in him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2013&p2=westda01&y2=2013

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html

vnzla81
02-27-2013, 04:43 PM
I will add, that its gonna be a real joy watching him tomorrow night as he destroys Blake Griffin.

I don't think we are going to see that happening, I think he is getting suspended.

Day-V
02-27-2013, 04:48 PM
This season has been Dirk's worst in a decade. He's been struggling through injuries, and a being on what really isn't a good team. Yet, he still has basically equaled David West across the board. He's shooting a lower percentage, but his eFG% and TS% are pretty similar. I guess I'm not as willing to dismiss a guy who carried his team to a title, basically on his own, just 2 seasons ago as quickly as you all are. That 2011 playoff run was the greatest individual effort anybody has ever seen. He was totally dominant. As good as David West is, I don't think he has that in him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&p1=nowitdi01&y1=2013&p2=westda01&y2=2013

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/nowitdi01.html

I'm not saying that West has had a better career or anything like that than Dirk by any means. Just saying for THIS YEAR, David West is a way better player.

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 04:48 PM
I don't think we are going to see that happening, I think he is getting suspended.

Yeah right. You can't suspend a BAMF

Mackey_Rose
02-27-2013, 04:57 PM
For those of you saying that David is arguably the best player at his position, I assume you'll be happy to pay him as a max player after this year?

Johanvil
02-27-2013, 05:07 PM
Someone had said here at the time we signed West that when healthy,he is one of top shelf PF's in the league. Well this year,he has been healthy and one of the best out there. Like many here I don't think he is the best but based solely on this year's productivity, there is hardly a couple of players I would take over West and that's probably because he has matched superbly with this team. Love him and I genuinely believe he should be the go to guy when the game is one the line. Him and probably Hill comes after him.

Derek2k3
02-27-2013, 05:07 PM
He had an absolutely monster game last night, and he's a great player. I'm couldn't be happier to have him on the Pacers.

But he isn't the best player at his position. He just isn't. Does this thread get made if he has just an average game last night? Hell no. That's why it's silly.

So silly you post several times.


While I don't think he's the absolute best pure 4, I think this is a fantastic question/debate. A better question may have been "Where does David rank among PF's this season?"
Below are the CBS ranks (Doesn't matter if you like the rationale, just nice to have a list of some of the top players at the 4)

There aren't many guys on that list that I think would be better than David on this team, this season. Maybe Z-Bo, he's similar to West in style etc.

Blake? Naw, I don't believe in him without CP3, and he makes David look like Scottie Pippen on defense.
Serge? Again, naw. He's really, REALLY good defensively, and that jumper is coming around. But he absolutely can't be the first or second option on offense, let alone carry the offense like David.
Garnett? Hahahaha
Duncan? Seems like a 5 anyway, but he'd be a good fit here.
Boozer? Hickson? Anderson? Millsap? None of these guys can really carry a team like David does/has/will do in crunch time. Good, yes. Better? I say no.
Love? He's really good, can't tell this season. And he's a risk to be a "great stats/terrible team" guy. Not to mention he clearly would have been a worse fit this season due to injuries/attitude.

EDIT: Forgot Aldridge. I'd say he's an upgrade/better than West, objectively speaking. He's so good.

This should be a fun conversation.
http://i52.tinypic.com/j0xws5.jpg

Pacergeek
02-27-2013, 05:11 PM
I think David West is the top PF right now. I mean, David Lee was an all star, and West made Lee his ***** last night. Just because the "experts" aren't saying this, it doesn't mean that he isnt. The biggest AS snub this year was West. You cannot convince me that Luol Deng or Lopez are better. NOBODY can stop the freight train of Mr. And 1!!!!

Derek2k3
02-27-2013, 05:12 PM
For those of you saying that David is arguably the best player at his position, I assume you'll be happy to pay him as a max player after this year?

Not happy about it, but he's gonna have a case to make top 5 money. And it aint gonna be $10M like some think (Or $6M/$7M :laugh:)

He gives you top 5 production at the position, he's deserving of getting paid.

TinManJoshua
02-27-2013, 05:16 PM
I watch a lot of grizzlies games, and it's almost frightening how much DWest and ZBo are alike.

I've already stated, in a thread about where Kobe ranks all-time, that I don't rank numerically, because I don't think I can put that precise a qualifier in stone. I can do tiers, and I do believe that David is top tier.

skyfire
02-27-2013, 05:16 PM
I think he is definitely in the top tier with Duncan, Randolph, Aldridge and Griffin. Debatable what order you put those 5 guys in.

We play through him on offense and he takes and make more shots in the last 2 minutes of close games than any of the other top PFs.

HC
02-27-2013, 05:38 PM
what a waste of bandwidth

Right because your opinion is the only one that matters.

Miller_time04
02-27-2013, 05:39 PM
The only bargaining chip we have is his age. I mean he's getting old you don't know when he's gonna start to decline. Other teams know that as well. If he was 28 he would definitely be getting the max. Hopefully he gives us some sort of home town discount for signing him when he was coming off a big injury.

Sollozzo
02-27-2013, 05:41 PM
I can at least take this question more seriously than the "Granger or Melo?" question last year.

owl
02-27-2013, 05:53 PM
I at least take this question more seriously than the "Granger or Melo?" question last year.

Pacers have one of the best small forwards and power forwards in the league and a top of league defensive center. Any wonder why the
Pacers are a threat to win it all?

McDunken
02-27-2013, 05:58 PM
The best? No unfortunately. Now most improved? You can make the argument that he is.

Ace E.Anderson
02-27-2013, 06:01 PM
Aldridge, Griffin, I think are definitely better--elite at the position.

If considered PF's, then Melo and Josh Smith are better

KG and Duncan are C's

Z-Bo, K Love (whom I think is overrated) are very compatible.

Lee, Ibaka, Milsap, Faried are young guys that are talented but not elite IMO.

aamcguy
02-27-2013, 06:27 PM
Pacers have one of the best small forwards and power forwards in the league and a top of league defensive center. Any wonder why the
Pacers are a threat to win it all?

Hey, you're forgetting Paul George!!! ;) ;)

Doddage
02-27-2013, 06:32 PM
I can't believe there hasn't been one mention of Chris Bosh in this thread. Not saying he's the best, but should at least be in the conversation. Are people considering him a center?

aamcguy
02-27-2013, 06:38 PM
I can't believe there hasn't been one mention of Chris Bosh in this thread. Not saying he's the best, but should at least be in the conversation. Are people considering him a center?

This is a good point. I think the Heat would be even better than they are if they treated Bosh and LeBron like two PFs instead of two SFs (and one of those SFs playing the "center"). But as it is, he doesn't really get to play the type of game that he was so good at in Toronto.

The Big Smooth
02-27-2013, 06:41 PM
West is much better than Bosh right now. If Miami had West instead of Bosh, they would be completely unstoppable. I didn't watch a whole lot of Bosh in Toronto, but he is incredibly soft in Miami. Considering he has a true max contract, Bosh is INCREDIBLY overpaid.

The Future
02-27-2013, 08:09 PM
http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0114/nba_g_aldridgel_576.jpg

/thread

Steagles
02-27-2013, 09:04 PM
The only power forward I can see is hands-down better than West, is Tim Duncan. But that is only if you consider him a power forward. If you consider him a center, I would be struggling to find someone playing better consistent basketball at the 4 than David West.


Sent from #PacerNation using Tapatalk

shags
02-27-2013, 09:15 PM
Do you consider Carmelo Anthony a power forward? Because, according to 82games.com, he's played the vast majority of his minutes there this season. And I would consider him clearly better than West.

But this isn't crazy. I mean, when you look at the starting PFs in the league, there aren't many that are clearly better than West.

Naptown_Seth
02-27-2013, 09:17 PM
You'd rather have Z-Bo than KG or Dirk?
Definitely over KG, he is not the same player he used to be.

ZBo is like West, but West has been the better defender this year. Of course ZBo is a strong rebounder.


Dirk you take for the great shooting, but he's a poor defender and a rather weak rebounder. Great, but different offensive threat compared to West and Zbo. Dirk is so much more like a tall SF than a real PF.

Aldridge is the one for me. He is athletic and tough at both ends. I'm not even thinking "for the future" with age, I mean right now.


DUNCAN IS A CENTER. He plays basketball just like one, his offense is very center in it's style, how he defends is closer to Roy's style than West's style. I know this debate rages on, partly because of how Pop runs the team, but Houston had 2 centers back in the day and if you put Roy and Ian on the court with Ian at "PF" it doesn't turn him into a career PF, it's just a style of running a team.

Griffin is a killer dunk threat, not just fancy but a true offensive threat on par with Dirk if you swap out the chance that he'll turn a play into a dunk instead of into a jumper. In crowds, no real play and up he goes for an alley-oop or dunk anyway. BUT HE FOULS like crazy and gets away with it, he's got no other offensive game right now, and he's not a great defender.


Kevin Love...tough call. Great passing touch, great spot up shooter, not a great low block offensive player...but a killer rebounder in the classic leverage and position sense. Not a great vertical defender but does stay down on his feet rather than chasing shot blocks. Hasn't had the defensive hands that West does.


Bosh obviously is way too soft on defense and doesn't score in the low block like West. With West hitting his mid-range shots like he has been you really don't have anything Bosh does that West doesn't.


Pau is interesting because he is more fluid and PF like than Duncan, but in a lot of situations he would be the center I think. Still if it's a trade West for Pau but you are keeping Roy at the 5...no, I still like West's defense more.


So my list is Aldridge, maybe Love, maybe Zbo. To me Love and Zbo would be trades I would pass on because the improvement amount would be negated by the RISK to chemistry. Not saying it couldn't work, just that if you multiply the risk against the potential improvement it's probably a slight "downgrade". But if the team made the deal I'd cross my fingers for it to work and I'd be happy that we at least got one of those guys in return.

Aldridge is the only one where I say "yep, love BAMF but this helps the team".

If age and cost are factored in things change, but then you also have to think of Love's injuries over the last 2 seasons.



Why is Ibaka in this mix? He's a great defensive player, but his offense is clearly worse than West's defense (which has moved from above average to "good" IMO).



GREAT SIGNING. Can't recall a better contract in FA apart from Miami getting the benefit of James wanting to go there due to Wade. In terms of normal contracts during FA where it's a seller's market and often guys end up as outright busts, West has been somewhat underpaid, though that's fair because he was asking the Pacers to assume the risk on his injury recovery. Just a classic good deal for both sides.

Naptown_Seth
02-27-2013, 09:19 PM
Seriously as Danny gets back up to speed and you look at the defense from 1-5 you have length, outstanding awareness at every spot, and outstanding team chemistry working together on defense.
Pacers have one of the best small forwards and power forwards in the league and a top of league defensive center. Any wonder why the Pacers are a threat to win it all?

Rogco
02-27-2013, 09:28 PM
West is in the discussion. I think the important thing about West is what he has brought to the Pacers. The present team identity - both mentally and physically tough - really seems to stem from West IMO.

15th parallel
02-27-2013, 09:56 PM
If you look at this season, he's one of the best, but I still think he's not the best PF. There's still Aldrigde, ZBo and Love (although Love has been injured for most part this season). Dirk is kind of just restoring his game after injury so he's below West right now. KG and Duncan are playing center right now, although West has been playing better than KG right now.

If it's against his batch of PFs overall of his career, well West will have to make a case for himself against a lot of his contemporaries like Duncan (he was a PF for most part of his career) and KG (similar with Duncan's case). And West, while have many dominating games this season, did struggle from time to time that keeps him from being a totally best PF right now.

As a Pacer, I think West is the co-MVP right now of the team (the other one is PG), no doubt about it.

PR07
02-27-2013, 10:27 PM
He's been a monster this season. I don't know if he's the best power forward per say, but for what he brings to this team, he's just as valuable if not more valuable than someone like KG is for the Celtics. Leadership, consistency, offense, defense...he's just the total package right now. I definitely think he's in the conversation.

Naptown_Seth
02-27-2013, 10:40 PM
What's sad is that West is putting up slightly better p36 numbers this year than in his 2 ASG seasons in NOH.

Per 36 he's been really consistent as a 19-8-2.5 guy. FG% has a bit of variance, 47.5 to 50.5, but this year he's right on his career average of 49%

Last year he played less minutes and took fewer shots, and that's about the only difference. His steals and blocks aren't up, but I think his total defense looks at it's best.

PacersPride
02-27-2013, 10:44 PM
Hahahahaha

what are you dude 12. "droppiing knowledge".. wheres it at. hahahahaha

West is in the conversation. No doubt.

vnzla81
02-27-2013, 10:48 PM
Yep West and Pendergraph have some good per 36 numbers ....

PacersPride
02-27-2013, 10:48 PM
What's sad is that West is putting up slightly better p36 numbers this year than in his 2 ASG seasons in NOH.

its kinda impressive considering on the hornets teams him and Paul were im guessing there only two options..?? His shots are likely inflated due to Grangers absence obviously.

The Leadership DWEST brings to this team is invaluable.

Psyren
02-27-2013, 11:13 PM
Are there people who actually think Blake Griffin is the best PF in the league? I understand hes as fun a player to watch as there is, but he is not in anyway the leagues best pf

aamcguy
02-27-2013, 11:23 PM
Yep West and Pendergraph have some good per 36 numbers ....

Per 36 numbers aren't designed to be used for low minute players as proof of what they would do given more minutes.

What they do is equalize the minutes to aid in comparison between players so you can get a better idea of their production relative to each other. You could easily give them per 20 minute stats and the same purpose would be served. 36 minutes was chosen because fans are more familiar with the number starters put up than bench players.

As long as posters are only using them for comparison purposes between players and aren't running away with conclusions, you should have no beef with them.

Trader Joe
02-28-2013, 01:02 AM
Lamarcus Aldridge....so good that his team is under .500.

I am genuinely perplexed by the Blazers though, there is no reason that team is worse than the Jazz or Rockets.

Goyle
02-28-2013, 01:09 AM
Lamarcus Aldridge....so good that his team is under .500.

I am genuinely perplexed by the Blazers though, there is no reason that team is worse than the Jazz or Rockets.

Look at that bench, man. Wonder how many of those guys will still be in the league in a few years.

shags
02-28-2013, 02:48 AM
Look at that bench, man. Wonder how many of those guys will still be in the league in a few years.

I was about ready to say the exact same thing. Eric Maynor went from never playing in OKC to the best bench guy for Portland.

Terry Stotts deserves COY consideration for even having the Blazers competing for a playoff spot this late in the season.

Leroy Staley
02-28-2013, 06:16 AM
I don't think its a dumb question at all. For whom would you trade him? Honetly, the knock on him before he came to Indiana was that he played soft. That was a lie. If you had to take Blake Griffin on a one on one final shot vs. David, or David in a final shot vs. Blake, who do you take? I know where my money is going.

Mackey_Rose
02-28-2013, 08:30 AM
what are you dude 12. "droppiing knowledge".. wheres it at. hahahahaha

West is in the conversation. No doubt.

I am 12. Do you feel good about yourself now? Making fun of a pre-teen... good for you brother.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 08:33 AM
Not sure, definitely top 5

Foul on Smits
02-28-2013, 09:01 AM
This is a complex question. I'm not sure how to answer it without wanting to rephrase the question several different ways.

If you're asking me to combine stats, leadership, natural PF toughness, clutch. It's basically him, KG, Dirk? I have not paid much attention to Randolph's leadership or clutchness, i dunno. It might be David West. If we're combining all these things and you're asking me who I want to go to war with at the 4, i'm taking David West or KG and i'm probably 100% sure i'm taking West between the two.

If you're talking just talent... My finalist and choice narrow quickly and change, but I gotta tell you. David West would still be a finalist. The purest shooting 17 foot jump shot in the league right now. It's indefensible. He fades away and knocks it down. No one in the league dominates the elbow like West. He's better than Dirk right now. Right at this moment. Anyone that would actually take Dirk over what West gives you, is nuts. Here's a great article i read a few weeks ago about West and the elbow. http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/50843/the-quietly-efficient-offense-of-david-west

Is David West an MVP candidate? Look, i'm not saying he should win it, but i find myself wondering during the games, how in the hell this man doesnt get at least a little bit of recognition. He's been here all year for the Pacers. 4-7 could have been a ton worse if it werent for David West. And he's still pulling us to safety when we need him too down the stretch of this season. He did it against GS. There were moments during that game where Curry and Thompson are dropping huge shots and if West wasnt there to score a crucial bucket, we might not have won the game. He's doing all this and he's putting up the stats, for a serious contender.

David West should be getting MVP consideration. At least a few national mentions. Maybe from our own national writers..maybe.

Consider this too. If West wasnt here, as a crutch for Paul George to lean on in all these games, I'm not sure Paul George becomes what he's become. It's debatable.

No one has come up with the correct math to show a stat that would show David West's impact on this team. It's huge! All things considered.

Trader Joe
02-28-2013, 10:35 AM
Look at that bench, man. Wonder how many of those guys will still be in the league in a few years.

Blaming the bench seems pretty weak to me. The Jazz bench doesn't exactly blow anyone away.

aamcguy
02-28-2013, 10:42 AM
Blaming the bench seems pretty weak to me. The Jazz bench doesn't exactly blow anyone away.

Their starters scorer 83 points per game out of their teams 97 ppg.
By comparison, the Pacers starters score 68 points out of the team's 94 ppg.
The Jazz? 65 points out of 98.

Their bench is the worst in the league by far.

Lance George
02-28-2013, 11:08 AM
The only difference between West and Aldridge is about 4.5 minutes of playing time.

http://i.imgur.com/bjldgpW.gif (http://bkref.com/tiny/BlRn9)

Gamble1
02-28-2013, 11:14 AM
Hey I just remembered people saying David West would never get back to his all star level of play and look who is eating the crow now.

Lance George
02-28-2013, 11:16 AM
If we're just going by raw numbers, then David Lee (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/leeda02.html) has to be in the discussion. He's putting up 19/11/4 on 52% shooting -- better than both Aldridge and West. Of course, he's also earned the reputation as a lousy defender, which knocks his stock down a notch or two.

Foul on Smits
02-28-2013, 11:16 AM
Hey I just remembered people saying David West would never get back to his all star level of play and look who is eating the crow now.

he's outplaying most of his career averages if not all.

TinManJoshua
02-28-2013, 11:20 AM
Hey I just remembered people saying David West would never get back to his all star level of play and look who is eating the crow now.

Don't worry about those people, they'll never admit they were wrong.

Gamble1
02-28-2013, 12:07 PM
he's outplaying most of his career averages if not all.

Without CP3 which was my only concern in supporting him as a possible FA signing 2 years back. OF course back then we had Collison so there was a limited sample size that David West would be a great fit as a Pcaer.

Since86
02-28-2013, 12:16 PM
he's outplaying most of his career averages if not all.

Not really. The only stat that has improved more than .4 is his assists going from 2.1apg to 3.0apg. Everything else is pretty much right at his career average.

EDIT: Well, PPG is up a little over a full point.

ChicagoJ
02-28-2013, 03:47 PM
How much is David West underpaid right now? What is he actually worth this season?

The people I would like to respond are mostly the ones complaining about Hibbert's contract and/or Hill's contract.

SIR-LANCE-ALOT
02-28-2013, 03:55 PM
yes west is a top PF in the league, i hope we are able to keep him at a decent price, but gona be hard to do so after next season cause we gotta give pg24 a nice size contract and lance has to get a decent deal too and with hibberts and george hill deal, maybe we can get someone to take green deal off our hands soon, but good thing is we dont have any large maxed out deals like joe johnson type numbers

dohman
02-28-2013, 05:39 PM
He does put the power in forward. How many of the others can say that?

Gamble1
02-28-2013, 05:59 PM
yes west is a top PF in the league, i hope we are able to keep him at a decent price, but gona be hard to do so after next season cause we gotta give pg24 a nice size contract and lance has to get a decent deal too and with hibberts and george hill deal, maybe we can get someone to take green deal off our hands soon, but good thing is we dont have any large maxed out deals like joe johnson type numbers
PG contract spells the end of Danny G as a Pacer unless Simon wants to go into the LT.

West at this point is more important than Danny so I am fine with that. ITs pretty much been proven this year as well that the Pacers can function without Danny heading the helm. David on the other hand would be sorely missed especially if Roy can't get his shot to the fall next year and there is also that uncomfortable feeling that Danny may have a long term problem with his knee.

Either way you have to be thankful for this team and for the job Bird has done to build it back up.

Gamble1
02-28-2013, 06:05 PM
How much is David West underpaid right now? What is he actually worth this season?

The people I would like to respond are mostly the ones complaining about Hibbert's contract and/or Hill's contract.
I haven't been that outspoken about it but I didn't like Hills deal at all. That being said I think his defense is showing that he is worth 8 million. Certainly I think the Pacers would have been worse off with Collison this year and I bet we would only be a mediocre defense if he was the main guy at the point.

IF you are looking for what David West value is then I think you have to look at Al Horford. Personally I think he is underpaid just a tad but his contract is about right for David West. Maybe 3 years 12 million per. Of course I would prefer only 2 years 12 million per and that could very well be what the market is for West but who knows.

SIR-LANCE-ALOT
02-28-2013, 08:15 PM
West is one of the best power forwards the Pacers have ever had, we gotta keep him!!!