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View Full Version : Are the Heat-Pacers the next big rivalry?



Coopdog23
02-26-2013, 01:43 PM
Seems like this matchup could decide who goes to the Finals in the East in the upcoming years. This in my mind is the next big NBA rivalry

Derek2k3
02-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Seems like this matchup could decide who goes to the Finals in the East in the upcoming years. This in my mind is the next big NBA rivalry

Maybe for the next 2 seasons. However, financially speaking, the Heat aren't set up to contend for much longer. They'll have to reduce the salary or pay an absurd tax, which is something Arison isn't likely to do.

It's very likely LBJ is gone after next season, and Bosh could go as well. They can make more money elsewhere, and that Heat team is garbage beyond the big 3.

Assuming Rose is healthy, Pacers/Bulls should be the rivalry for the next several years (Throughout Rose/Paul's primes).

Both Indiana and Chicago are more set up for the long term IMO.

Downtown Bang!
02-26-2013, 01:51 PM
Only if:

Lebron stays in Miami after this contract.

They meet almost every year in at least the second round & more importantly ECF over the next 5-6 years.

The Pacers can win 1/2 of the series meetings.

PaulGeorge
02-26-2013, 01:54 PM
I'm with you, only if Lebron stays past 2014

If he doesn't then the Cavs would be the rival which would be hilarious. The Pacers and Cavs, EC best teams both small cities in the midwest. That's the way to stick it to the NBA.
Only if:

Lebron stays in Miami after this contract.

They meet almost every year in at least the second round & more importantly ECF over the next 5-6 years.

The Pacers can win 1/2 of the series meetings.

McDunken
02-26-2013, 02:40 PM
I dont think it will be on the level of Pacers/Knicks during the 90s, but I would love it if this could be a huge rivalry. The nba has been lackluster of good rivalrys for the past few years. This rivalry can actually mean something if we can beat them in a playoff series. So until then I'm going to consider this just an intense matchup.

docpaul
02-26-2013, 02:44 PM
Not until the Pacers pass them in the playoffs.

Which they could very well do this year.

BPump33
02-26-2013, 02:44 PM
I still think we'll get a Knicks/Pacers series this year that will bring back a lot of the "casual fans."

thewholefnshow31
02-26-2013, 03:55 PM
You can only have a rivalry if both teams win and right now we have not won when it matters. If Lebron stays in MIA and IND can win a series or two over the next few years then yeah it will be the next big rivalry especially if PG can ascend to top tier level of players in this league.

Ace E.Anderson
02-26-2013, 04:18 PM
I don't think the Heat view us as rivals in any way. A tough matchup? Yes, but not a rival.

To me, a rivalry is just as important to win on for both teams--from the fans, to the coaches, to the players. As of right now, I think the Pacer and Heat games are much bigger to us than it is to them--which is understandable since we have yet to beat them in the playoffs (and have only played them once)

If we were ever to beat them within a playoff series, then things would be different, and a rivalry would be born.

But as of now, we're closer to being the Sacramento Kings to their Los Angeles Lakers than we are to being their rival. Just my opinion

Ransom
02-26-2013, 04:37 PM
I dislike that people say you can't have a rivalry until both win a playoff series. The Bulls/Pistons rivalry didn't start when Jordan finally beat them. It basically ended there. Maybe it's a more evenhanded rivalry that way but you can still have a rivalry.

Hicks
02-26-2013, 05:00 PM
Seems like this matchup could decide who goes to the Finals in the East in the upcoming years. This in my mind is the next big NBA rivalry

If we beat Miami in the playoffs, it will then be a serious rivalry. For now it's more or less just a regular season rivalry. You have to beat one another in the playoffs to really get deep into a rivalry, I think. Like I would say the Knicks/Pacers of the mid to late 90's was absolutely a rivalry. But I would not say the 90's Bulls/Pacers or the current Bulls/Pacers are because it was only one team that won.

I guess technically it's a short term rival in the moment; you're literally two opposing forces competing over the same objective, so yes it's a rivalry in that moment. But to extend beyond a season-by-season basis, to be more of a 'rivalry of that era', I think then you need to have them beat one another because while technically you can still make that argument, to me it's more of a hurdle than a rival if you keep beating them over and over.

I mean was Philly a rival in 1999 and 2000? I would count 2001 but frankly that wasn't the same Pacers. Not enough, anyway.

Derek2k3
02-26-2013, 05:08 PM
I don't think the Heat view us as rivals in any way. A tough matchup? Yes, but not a rival.

To me, a rivalry is just as important to win on for both teams--from the fans, to the coaches, to the players. As of right now, I think the Pacer and Heat games are much bigger to us than it is to them--which is understandable since we have yet to beat them in the playoffs (and have only played them once)

If we were ever to beat them within a playoff series, then things would be different, and a rivalry would be born.

But as of now, we're closer to being the Sacramento Kings to their Los Angeles Lakers than we are to being their rival. Just my opinion

There were several national writers that wrote about this the last time the Pacers/Heat played. To the Heat players, the Pacers are their biggest rival. They want to beat Indiana as much as Indiana wants to beat them.

Pacersalltheway10
02-26-2013, 05:20 PM
I think its more Pacers vs Bulls with the Miami Heat on top. Like in the 90s it was Pacers vs Knicks with the Bulls on top.

Pacersalltheway10
02-26-2013, 05:25 PM
Kind of weird how history repeats itself through the whole Paul George and Reggie Miller draft situations to the Danny Granger and Chuck Person comparisons(in situations not as players). (Reggie took over for Chuck now PG24 takes over the top spot from DG33)

Ace E.Anderson
02-26-2013, 05:25 PM
There were several national writers that wrote about this the last time the Pacers/Heat played. To the Heat players, the Pacers are their biggest rival. They want to beat Indiana as much as Indiana wants to beat them.

They want to beat us yes, they WANT to beat everybody. But I don't think they "get up" for the game as much as we do. They see us as a threat of course, but that doesn't mean they raise their level of anticipation when they see the Indiana Pacers on their schedule.

If you have a link, I'd like to read the story where they referred to us as their "biggest rival" (and don't take that as me saying you're wrong, lol you're prob right and I missed it)

I'd have to think that Boston is still their biggest rival in their eyes

Coopdog23
02-26-2013, 07:01 PM
If we beat Miami in the playoffs, it will then be a serious rivalry. For now it's more or less just a regular season rivalry. You have to beat one another in the playoffs to really get deep into a rivalry, I think. Like I would say the Knicks/Pacers of the mid to late 90's was absolutely a rivalry. But I would not say the 90's Bulls/Pacers or the current Bulls/Pacers are because it was only one team that won.

I guess technically it's a short term rival in the moment; you're literally two opposing forces competing over the same objective, so yes it's a rivalry in that moment. But to extend beyond a season-by-season basis, to be more of a 'rivalry of that era', I think then you need to have them beat one another because while technically you can still make that argument, to me it's more of a hurdle than a rival if you keep beating them over and over.

I mean was Philly a rival in 1999 and 2000? I would count 2001 but frankly that wasn't the same Pacers. Not enough, anyway.

Wouldn't you say that Pacers-Pistons in the early 2000s was a rivalry?

Eleazar
02-26-2013, 07:19 PM
Rivalry has nothing to do with winning and losing, but the emotions. It doesn't matter if the Heat win every time, if each side still hates each other and plays all out every second of the game.

OlBlu
02-26-2013, 07:31 PM
No.....:cool:

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-26-2013, 07:43 PM
Rivalry has nothing to do with winning and losing, but the emotions. It doesn't matter if the Heat win every time, if each side still hates each other and plays all out every second of the game.

While I agree with this, both teams have to win or else its loses something because the losing team just becomes a stepping stone for the winning team. Their isn't the same amount of angst.

Sorta like the Pats and Colts, it wasn't a rivalry until we beat them a few times. To prove we could

Pacer Fan
02-26-2013, 07:43 PM
No, cause if the Heat win then It's just another series and if the Pacers win then the Heat will self destruct and will be worse then the Cavs when LBJ was there.

I hope for a rivalry with OKC in the finals for the next 3-4 years. :)

Lance George
02-26-2013, 08:11 PM
No.....:cool:

With all due respect, your track record is quite laughable. In fact, it's so bad a person could make a great living off of going with the exact opposite of what you say.

So, yeah, Heat vs. Pacers is almost certainly the NBA's next big rivalry. OlBlu has spoken. :cool:

OlBlu
02-26-2013, 08:34 PM
With all due respect, your track record is quite laughable. In fact, it's so bad a person could make a great living off of going with the exact opposite of what you say.

So, yeah, Heat vs. Pacers is almost certainly the NBA's next big rivalry. OlBlu has spoken. :cool:

Hey!! :cool: The Pacers are not a pimple on Lebron's a$$

Ransom
02-26-2013, 08:53 PM
While I agree with this, both teams have to win or else its loses something because the losing team just becomes a stepping stone for the winning team. Their isn't the same amount of angst.

Sorta like the Pats and Colts, it wasn't a rivalry until we beat them a few times. To prove we could

You don't believe the Colts and Pats had a rivalry before that? I don't think I agree at all. The Pats clearly took great pride in beating us, as did their fans, from Bill Simmons to random message board posters.

PR07
02-26-2013, 10:40 PM
I think it has the potential to be a great rivalry in time.

However, I disagree with the statement that we have to win before it's a rivalry. As mentioned, Colts-Pats was a rivalry long before the Colts ever sniffed a postseason win against the Patriots.

Mad-Mad-Mario
02-26-2013, 10:47 PM
You don't believe the Colts and Pats had a rivalry before that? I don't think I agree at all. The Pats clearly took great pride in beating us, as did their fans, from Bill Simmons to random message board posters.

Of course they did, we were a good team. Of course they would take pride in beating us. But the overall culture was not one of a rivalry.

Eleazar
02-26-2013, 11:06 PM
Sorta like the Pats and Colts, it wasn't a rivalry until we beat them a few times. To prove we could

That is just flat out wrong, and is revisionist history. That was clearly a rivalry even before the Colts beat them because everyone made a big deal about it. All the fans, the media, the teams, everyone. You could tell when they played that they hated each other.

Downtown Bang!
02-27-2013, 06:53 AM
That is just flat out wrong, and is revisionist history. That was clearly a rivalry even before the Colts beat them because everyone made a big deal about it. All the fans, the media, the teams, everyone. You could tell when they played that they hated each other.

Those games had Manning vs. Brady which was the rivalry until the Colts started winning their share of games. Until then it was a clear step below old school rivalrys like Redskins/Cowboys or Packers/Bears etc.

Something else that helped elevate those games as time went on was the fact the NFL scheduling process matched-up the Cots/Pats in the regular season almost every year which was unusual for teams not in the same division.

FlavaDave
02-27-2013, 11:37 AM
I don't know if people are too young to remember the early 2000's, but if Colts-Pats wasn't a rivalry pre-2007, then we don't agree on what is considered a rivalry.

Saying "You are not our rivals until you beat us" is a) a super douche-y thing to say as a winning player/fan, and b) superb smack talk. However, it doesn't mean that team didn't take the game personally.

Pacers-Heat isn't 100% there, but if they meet in the postseason again this year I think the rivalry will be cemented.

Coopdog23
02-27-2013, 11:39 AM
I don't know if people are too young to remember the early 2000's, but if Colts-Pats wasn't a rivalry pre-2007, then we don't agree on what is considered a rivalry.

Saying "You are not our rivals until you beat us" is a) a super douche-y thing to say as a winning player/fan, and b) superb smack talk. However, it doesn't mean that team didn't take the game personally.

Pacers-Heat isn't 100% there, but if they meet in the postseason again this year I think the rivalry will be cemented.

The intensity in the matchup is there. Both teams "hate" more dislike and disrespect each other so they will go after each other

Ace E.Anderson
02-27-2013, 11:48 AM
Again, the intensity is there...FROM OUR END, not so much from Miami's though. American Airlines Arena isn't selling out and rocking from top to bottom because they're playing the Pacers. The Heat aren't looking to make a statement by beating the Pacers in the regular season. IF they were, they'd supply a much better effort the times we've played them.

Instead its BLF that's rockin' because the Heat are in town, it's the Pacers that are looking to make a statement by beating the Heat, and it's the Pacers that are stepping up their effort and intensity to win these regular season games.

I feel that Miami feels like they can "turn it on" against us whenever they want, a lot like they did last year during the playoffs. Anytime a team feels that way, it sort of dismisses the potential of a rivalry to me.

It may be close to being a rivalry if we face them in the Postseason once again, but I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the Heat and the Pacers today and the Celtics and Pacers in the early 2000's (whom we played in the playoffs on a number of occasions)

billbradley
02-27-2013, 11:56 AM
Again, the intensity is there...FROM OUR END, not so much from Miami's though. American Airlines Arena isn't selling out and rocking from top to bottom because they're playing the Pacers. The Heat aren't looking to make a statement by beating the Pacers in the regular season. IF they were, they'd supply a much better effort the times we've played them.

Instead its BLF that's rockin' because the Heat are in town, it's the Pacers that are looking to make a statement by beating the Heat, and it's the Pacers that are stepping up their effort and intensity to win these regular season games.

I feel that Miami feels like they can "turn it on" against us whenever they want, a lot like they did last year during the playoffs. Anytime a team feels that way, it sort of dismisses the potential of a rivalry to me.

It may be close to being a rivalry if we face them in the Postseason once again, but I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the Heat and the Pacers today and the Celtics and Pacers in the early 2000's (whom we played in the playoffs on a number of occasions)

You need to read what the MIA beat writers have to say about the Pacers,

the Heat are absolutely focused and bring it all against the Pacers in the regular season. Maybe not the biggest rivalry to fans (BOS, NYK, CHI) but ABSOLUTELY the biggest amongst the MIA team.

Downtown Bang!
02-27-2013, 12:09 PM
Again, the intensity is there...FROM OUR END, not so much from Miami's though. American Airlines Arena isn't selling out and rocking from top to bottom because they're playing the Pacers. The Heat aren't looking to make a statement by beating the Pacers in the regular season. IF they were, they'd supply a much better effort the times we've played them.

Instead its BLF that's rockin' because the Heat are in town, it's the Pacers that are looking to make a statement by beating the Heat, and it's the Pacers that are stepping up their effort and intensity to win these regular season games.

I feel that Miami feels like they can "turn it on" against us whenever they want, a lot like they did last year during the playoffs. Anytime a team feels that way, it sort of dismisses the potential of a rivalry to me.

It may be close to being a rivalry if we face them in the Postseason once again, but I'm trying to figure out what the difference is between the Heat and the Pacers today and the Celtics and Pacers in the early 2000's (whom we played in the playoffs on a number of occasions)

Those trying to say Heat/Pacers is already a big time rivalry sound like Titans & Ravens fans during the last half of the Manning era.

Those games against the Colts may have mattered a great deal to those particular fans (and even franchises) but for the Colts, Colts fans and the rest of the world those games were second tier and not nearly as relevant as the Pats games.

naptownmenace
02-27-2013, 12:20 PM
Not until the Pacers pass them in the playoffs.

Which they could very well do this year.

Agreed! It's not a true rivalry until both teams have defeated each other in the Playoffs at least once.

billbradley
02-27-2013, 12:22 PM
Those trying to say Heat/Pacers is already a big time rivalry sound like Titans & Ravens fans during the last half of the Manning era.

Those games against the Colts may have mattered a great deal to those particular fans (and even franchises) but for the Colts, Colts fans and the rest of the world those games were second tier and not nearly as relevant as the Pats games.

I don't understand why people are just assuming the Heat players feel or think a certain way, when you have their beat writers and players saying something different.

Ace E.Anderson
02-27-2013, 12:32 PM
I don't understand why people are just assuming the Heat players feel or think a certain way, when you have their beat writers and players saying something different.


You need to read what the MIA beat writers have to say about the Pacers,

the Heat are absolutely focused and bring it all against the Pacers in the regular season. Maybe not the biggest rivalry to fans (BOS, NYK, CHI) but ABSOLUTELY the biggest amongst the MIA team.

I'm more interested in what the Players have to say about the Pacers. Maybe I haven't read enough, but a lot of what I've read has been dismissive comments from Wade and Lebron. "yeah they're a tough matchup but...." type of deal.


"They're a cocky bunch"...."They took a 2-1 lead and were really excited about what was going on and they were talking a lot,".........."They felt like they were the better team, we took control of the series."....."But they've been talking a lot,"..........."I read a lot of clips they had before the season, said they were better than us and they should have beat us, so we'll be ready." (http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-01-08/sports/sfl-miami-heat-lebron-james-pacers-s010813_1_bankers-life-fieldhouse-lebron-james-pacers-swingman-paul-george)

Those are just a few quotes I gathered from that one particular story. It sounds dismissive of us--least to me. Maybe my perception is different than others.



Heat cool with another loss in Indy
Pacers seem to have the champs' number, and they're perfectly fine with that (http://espn.go.com/nba/truehoop/miamiheat/story/_/page/heatchecks-130201/nba-miami-heat-not-worried-following-lopsided-loss-indiana-pacers)

Originally Published: February 1, 2013
By Brian Windhorst | ESPN.com

INDIANAPOLIS -- What, the Miami Heat worry?

Friday night the Indiana Pacers outclassed the Heat -- at least that was coach Erik Spoelstra's verb choice -- for a second time in a month with a 102-89 victory. The Heat are now 0-5 against top Eastern Conference rivals the Pacers, New York Knicks and Chicago Bulls this season. All of those losses have been by double figures.

And … the Heat don't care.

"We're not worried about that," LeBron James said with a shrug. "We don't put too much into losing a game or winning a game, we want to get better from those games. We don't need victories versus top teams to prove what we're capable of doing. We don't need them. We'd love to have them, but we don't need them."

What say you, Dwyane Wade?

"I would love to win every game against all the top teams," Wade said. "Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't. All you need to do during the regular season is work your game."

Save the indignation, the Heat say. James quickly will point out, and he did, his team got swept by the Bulls two years ago in the regular season and beat them in five in the playoffs. That year they lost three of four to the Boston Celtics and beat them in five, too. James also offered that the Heat are 3-0 this season against the Brooklyn Nets, who are currently tied for fourth in the East.

The predictive value of regular season wins on the playoffs is historically irrelevant, and no one who has studied or watched the league much would argue. The Heat's pedigree and level of experience is vast and they aren't patently incorrect in evaluating the results thus far with what amounts to a shrug and a wave of the hand.

Nonetheless, the Heat's title defense so far is hardly calling to mind greatness. Especially with their 11-11 road record and the fact that their most effective big man Friday night, Chris Andersen, is currently on a 10-day contract.

More specifically, the Pacers are showing some legitimacy as the top underdog contender to knock the Heat off their East perch. Indiana boasts two important traits that would be needed to theoretically beat Miami four times out of seven.

They have good size on the interior -- most notably David West and Roy Hibbert -- and that gives the Heat problems. In the two games they've played this season, the Pacers have a whopping plus-28 rebounding edge. On Friday, West tore up every defender the Heat put in front of him en route to 30 points on just 15 shots.

The Pacers are also an excellent defensive team. In fact, they could make a case they're the best in the league. They lead the NBA in field goal percentage defense and defensive efficiency. The Heat, who are one of the league's top offenses, have failed to cracked 90 points in both meetings this season.

Beyond those two factors, there are also some intangibles. The Pacers have some bad blood with the Heat, dating to last season's playoffs, when the Heat rallied from being down 2-1 to win in six games.

That two-week dance resulted in two Heat players getting suspended for dirty hits, a pregame shoving match and the Pacers forcing Lance Stephenson into a public apology for giving James a "choke" sign. Friday, James and Stephenson got into it again with James putting his forearm in Stephenson's chest after some more trash talk.

The Pacers' struggle is scoring, as they rank 28th in the league in offensive efficiency. Considering their trouble putting points up, it is a true accomplishment they are 28-19 in early February. But they are expected to get a boost in that department when leading scorer Danny Granger, who hasn't played a game this season because of a knee injury, makes his return in the near future.

The odds in Vegas won't be changing, but this is a résumé of a contender -- at least what qualifies in the East.

"We match up with [the Heat], and I think we have some familiarity with them from the playoff series," West said. "They're one of the best teams in the NBA so it's good to beat them. But we can't overreact."

The Heat will not be overreacting, either. If they are reacting at all, it is behind closed doors. Spoelstra showed the Heat long clips of the previous loss in Indiana before the game on Friday in a strategy to warn his players. The Heat did play with high intensity and focus, which hasn't always been the case on the road this season, but they were flatly outexecuted and outplayed by the Pacers.

In fairness, both of these games were in Indiana, where the Pacers are excellent and have now won 13 in a row. But in equal fairness, the Pacers have dominated the champs both times.

The Heat have taken notice, but won't be losing any sleep.

"Whenever you beat a team twice it's natural [to have confidence]," Spoelstra said. "We're not afraid of that. We have to get better against them. We'll have to bring more. That is our hope, and that is what will happen."


Idk...its a story about a whole bunch of nothing lol but again TO ME, the Heat players sound dismissive of the Pacers and the thought that we could be better than them or on the same level as them. Maybe I'm interpreting incorrectly though, but I just don't feel they're as "focused" on us as we are into them.

FlavaDave
02-27-2013, 12:35 PM
Was Wilt vs. Russell a rivalry? Of course it was, it is one of the great rivalries in all of sports.

But was it not a rivalry until Russell's third-to-last season, when Wilt finally beat him in the playoffs after 8 straight Celtics titles? All those years until then were "non-rivalry" years? Or were those year retroactively deemed "rival" years with the authentication of the playoff win towards the end?

billbradley
02-27-2013, 12:39 PM
I'm more interested in what the Players have to say about the Pacers. Maybe I haven't read enough, but a lot of what I've read has been dismissive comments from Wade and Lebron. "yeah they're a tough matchup but...." type of deal.



Those are just a few quotes I gathered from that one particular story. It sounds dismissive of us--least to me. Maybe my perception is different than others.





Idk...its a story about a whole bunch of nothing lol but again TO ME, the Heat players sound dismissive of the Pacers and the thought that we could be better than them or on the same level as them. Maybe I'm interpreting incorrectly though, but I just don't feel they're as "focused" on us as we are into them.

Well sure, MIA isn't going to come out and say, "those losses were huge and now we're afraid." And that's not what I'm saying either.

I'm saying they come to play the Pacers and they don't like the Pacers. How many Techs did MIA get last time? LeBron started talking trash before the first game this season. The Pacers get under their skin. The Pacers are the only real threat in the East right now. There was a hard fought series last year with hard fouls and suspensions.

All these things create a rivalry. And although it might not have reached that level with the media or fans, it certainly has with the players. These teams plain don't like each other.

Ace E.Anderson
02-27-2013, 12:47 PM
Here are some quotes from the Heat in regards to the Celtics




"It seems like every time something big is going on, we're always playing the Celtics," Bosh said.

LeBron said he wouldn't have it any other way. "I like playing against them," he said. "It's a great rivalry."




Miami Heat look forward to rivalry with Celtics (http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/2012/10/28/miami-heat-look-forward-rivalry-with-celtics/eiyw29SonnUykjGrllV7GO/story-1.html)

MIAMI – Don’t count Dwyane Wade among those who believed the Celtics’ competitive tenure was coming to an end last June. While the horde of reporters surrounding him scoffed and giggled as he said the Celtics would continue with their current core for three more years, the expression on his face remained serious. He wasn’t joking or being overly laudatory.

And here we go, nearly five months later, the defending NBA champion Heat opening the season Tuesday against the not-so-ready-to-start-over Celtics at *American Airlines Arena. The Heat are hardly surprised that their primary rival decided to retool instead of rebuild.

The Celtics spent the offseason adding younger pieces, watching Ray Allen defect to the South Beachers, and re-signing veterans with the express purpose of overcoming the Heat. The past two playoff eliminations at the hands of Miami have been painful for Celtics coach Doc Rivers, who has made it a point to call out the Heat as Boston’s lone target. He said it several times during training camp, and while he wouldn’t lament too much over an opening-night loss, especially when integrating eight newcomers, this is a game he wants.

The Heat fully understand they are the hunted, but team management decided to retain 12 of the 15 players from last season’s title team. The Heat are indeed similar to last season, but the additions of Allen and Rashard Lewis strengthen the bench.

“[The continuity] helps us,” Wade said. “This is what we needed. We needed our guys to come back and be healthy, and with everything we have it takes a special group to be able to play on this team. It’s not easy. Everyone has to sacrifice something in their game to be able to be successful, to get team success. So just anybody can’t come in here and put on the Heat uniform with this dynamic.”

Like the Celtics, the Heat have established a pride and culture over the past few years, especially with the acquisitions of LeBron James and Chris Bosh. Wade said the difference in the atmosphere since the Big Three was put together is significant.

“Some of the previous years I was here, it was easier,” he said. “Even for me, it’s a hard thing to go through some nights, to be able to give what you have for the team, to play a role. So this is what we needed as a team, we didn’t need no one to come in here and break up our chemistry. We brought in guys that fit right into the mold. Some teams might have needed something different, they felt, but it all plays out and we’ll see.”

There hasn’t been too much banter between the teams during the preseason. The Celtics realize they lost last season to Miami because their older players became fatigued, Allen was playing on one ankle, and their bench was offensively inept. With the addition of Jason Terry and the return of Jeff Green and Chris Wilcox, the Celtics’ second unit will be considerably stronger.

Personnel moves were geared to compete with the Heat, especially in the playoffs, when each side fully expects to see the other.

“I expected that, when I heard [that the Heat are the Celtics’ target] from Doc, I know Doc very well, as well it should be; our focus is on Boston,” Wade said. “But we do look at other teams. We’re not going to say we’re just looking at Boston. We understand this league is good. When you talk about focusing on the Eastern Conference, you focus on the champs in the Eastern Conference and that’s the Miami Heat. So that’s their message right there more so than them saying I’m not worried about no other team because you can’t beat us four times and lose to everybody else. You won’t make the playoffs.

“I understand what he was saying at that standpoint and we look forward to the challenge every year. Boston is always the team that’s going to make us point fingers [at each other] in the game sometimes. They mess with your mind a little bit. It’s a great challenge for us and by the time you get to the playoffs, we look forward to it. You have to be aware and focused on everything that they’re doing because they can beat you any given night.”

There is a mutual respect, especially with Miami’s Big Three, for Rivers. He has orchestrated successful plans to stop Wade, James, and Bosh in previous years — individually — but he is still looking for the recipe to contain them as a group. Tuesday’s game, which will include several players new to the rivalry, should be fascinating because there will be new matchups, creating even more intrigue between the Celtics and Heat as the season progresses. You get the distinct feeling that the Heat’s core is glad the Celtics decided to hang around a little while longer.


Much different level of respect and competitiveness when it comes to these quotes from Wade....IMO

Ace E.Anderson
02-27-2013, 12:51 PM
Well sure, MIA isn't going to come out and say, "those losses were huge and now we're afraid." And that's not what I'm saying either.

I'm saying they come to play the Pacers and they don't like the Pacers. How many Techs did MIA get last time? LeBron started talking trash before the first game this season. The Pacers get under their skin. The Pacers are the only real threat in the East right now. There was a hard fought series last year with hard fouls and suspensions.

All these things create a rivalry. And although it might not have reached that level with the media or fans, it certainly has with the players. These teams plain don't like each other.

I actually agree that these teams don't like one another. And yes I believe we get under the Heat's skin. But I don't feel that it's out of "oh man we've gotta beat these guys" as much as its "man how the hell are we losing to these guys, laugh" .

To me a rivalry is when BOTH teams are "up" and hyped for each matchup, regular season or playoffs. When BOTH teams are playing at the best level they can, simply to one up the other team. All I'm saying is idk if from the Heat's perspective, they're as "up" or hyped for these games as we appear to be.

billbradley
02-27-2013, 12:52 PM
I definitely think MIA respected the Celtics more than the Pacers, the Heat wanted what the Celtics already had.

billbradley
02-27-2013, 01:07 PM
I actually agree that these teams don't like one another. And yes I believe we get under the Heat's skin. But I don't feel that it's out of "oh man we've gotta beat these guys" as much as its "man how the hell are we losing to these guys, laugh" .

To me a rivalry is when BOTH teams are "up" and hyped for each matchup, regular season or playoffs. When BOTH teams are playing at the best level they can, simply to one up the other team. All I'm saying is idk if from the Heat's perspective, they're as "up" or hyped for these games as we appear to be.

Like I said, I think it was Windhorst who said the Heat were as focused and prepared as they ever have been, playoff or regular season, for the Pacer game a month ago.

Of course they're going to laugh us off in public, who wants to give credit to the Pacers? We aint the Celtics.

Sollozzo
02-27-2013, 01:08 PM
I definitely think MIA respected the Celtics more than the Pacers, the Heat wanted what the Celtics already had.

Yes. The Celtics eliminated Lebron in both 2008 and 2010. They also took Wade out in 2010. The Celtics were the hurdle they had to clear to get to the next level. Not to mention the fact that the Celtics were up 3-2 on the Heat last year and had two opportunities to knock them out of the playoffs. They were much closer to beating the Heat than we were

BillS
02-27-2013, 02:28 PM
I think there is an intangible to a rivalry that gets missed, and some things get added to the equation that don't really matter directly.

A rivalry exists between two teams that have a longer tradition of playing one another than playing anyone else or have a history of some kind in those games. The Pacers aren't really going to qualify in this respect except for the other ABA teams, and there wasn't a strong rivalry with those teams before coming to the NBA. Now, had the COLONELS come to the NBA, well, then...

A rivalry exists because of a series of events that have affected both teams. This is where the idea of "having to win a playoff series" comes into play, but that is just one way it could happen. I think two teams in the same division who knock each other out of the top spot year after year can engender a rivalry just the same as doing the same thing in the playoffs. A sequence of "chippy" games where both teams leave everything on the floor and get into it with each other, that can start a feeling of rivalry.

Bottom line, though, is that a rivalry only exists when both teams feel any game against the other team is a "must win". At this point, I don't think ANYONE is in a "rivalry" with the Heat because I really think they do take every regular season game for granted and expect to win in the playoffs - and I would say that if you only feel you "must win" against a team when you meet them in the playoffs, it isn't a rivalry, it's the playoffs. Back when Riley was actually COACHING the Heat, Knicks/Heat was a rivalry, for instance. Had nothing to do with playoffs, had to do with history.

Now, if the Pacers manage to knock off the Heat in Miami - especially if it ends their winning streak - we'll be continuing to get into their heads, but that still isn't a rivalry.

billbradley
02-27-2013, 02:32 PM
I guess we just need to define rivalry then.

Simply, I think it's when both teams are more competitive against each other and it creates an intense game and bad blood every time they play.

Pacers Heat fit that bill.

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 02:33 PM
I have a hard time calling something a real rivalry until it goes on for a while. This hasn't gone on that long.

billbradley
02-27-2013, 02:36 PM
That's true, but in basketball I think it's different as far as time goes. Haven't the Pacers played the Heat like 10 times since last year?

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 02:37 PM
I'm talking like years and years. Pro "rivalries" just come and go so fast.

billbradley
02-27-2013, 02:44 PM
I'm talking like years and years. Pro "rivalries" just come and go so fast.

I agree, it's unrealistic for teams to be competitive at the same time all the time.

But then again, a rivalry is about competition, no? So wouldn't level of competition and fight between rivals trump longevity?

I don't know, but I can't think of a more competitive rivalry between contenders in the NBA right now than Heat Pacers.

Coopdog23
02-27-2013, 02:49 PM
I'm talking like years and years. Pro "rivalries" just come and go so fast.

Lakers/Celtics? Bears/Packers? Red Sox/Yankees?

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 02:53 PM
Lakers/Celtics? Bears/Packers? Red Sox/Yankees?

Pacers/Celtics
Pacers/Knicks
Pacers/Bulls
Pacers/Pistons
Pacers/Heat

All of those have been deemed "rivalries" by folks and that is just over the past 20 years.

Lakers/Kings is a great example of a "rivalry"

Coopdog23
02-27-2013, 02:55 PM
Pacers/Celtics
Pacers/Knicks
Pacers/Bulls
Pacers/Pistons
Pacers/Heat

All of those have been deemed "rivalries" by folks and that is just over the past 20 years.

Lakers/Kings is a great example of a "rivalry"

You said pro sport rivalries come and go over time

BillS
02-27-2013, 02:55 PM
Pacers/Celtics
Pacers/Knicks
Pacers/Bulls
Pacers/Pistons
Pacers/Heat

All of those have been deemed "rivalries" by folks and that is just over the past 20 years.

Lakers/Kings is a great example of a "rivalry"

Of all of those I would say Pacers/Knicks comes the closest to a rivalry that still exists. Even through the years both teams were pretty crappy, they went at each other like it was a playoff game.

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 02:59 PM
You said pro sport rivalries come and go over time

And they do.

I just provided 5 examples involving just our team over just the last 20 years.

You provided me with 3 examples of actual rivalries in pro sports. But that's about it.

Knicks/Heat was once a "rivalry". For the most part they come and go.

Coopdog23
02-27-2013, 03:03 PM
And they do.

I just provided 5 examples involving just our team over just the last 20 years.

You provided me with 3 examples of actual rivalries in pro sports. But that's about it.

Knicks/Heat was once a "rivalry". For the most part they come and go.

Giants/Eagles, Steelers/Ravens, Colts/Patriots, Cubs/Cardinals

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 03:07 PM
Giants/Eagles, Steelers/Ravens, Colts/Patriots, Cubs/Cardinals

Giants/Eagles....right now it's a rivalry? I don't agree. You want to talk NFC east rivalries, I woudl grant you Cowboys/Redskins as a true rivalry. They hate each other regardless of record.

Steelers/Ravens... The Ravens have only been a franchise for 15 years.

Colts/Patriots.....this was more Manning/Brady. This will not remain a rivalry though it has been for the past 10 years. It will come and go.

Cubs/Cardinals....maybe. I'd have to ask a Cub player if they play any harder against the Cardinals.

They come and they go. There are a handful of pro rivalries that go longer than 10 years. Maybe Pacers/Heat gets there, but it probably won't. Most pro matchups like this don't. As everyone has pointed out, maybe West leaves this sumemr and maybe Lebron leaves Miami next year and then maybe neither team plays each other in the playoffs for the next 20 years. Would you still call it a rivalry?

Coopdog23
02-27-2013, 03:10 PM
Giants/Eagles....right now it's a rivalry? I don't agree. You want to talk NFC east rivalries, I woudl grant you Cowboys/Redskins as a true rivalry. They hate each other regardless of record.

Steelers/Ravens... The Ravens have only been a franchise for 15 years.

Colts/Patriots.....this was more Manning/Brady. This will not remain a rivalry though it has been for the past 10 years. It will come and go.

Cubs/Cardinals....maybe. I'd have to ask a Cub player if they play any harder against the Cardinals.

They come and they go. There are a handful of pro rivalries that go longer than 10 years. Maybe Pacers/Heat gets there, but it probably won't. Most pro matchups like this don't. As everyone has pointed out, maybe West leaves this sumemr and maybe Lebron leaves Miami next year and then maybe neither team plays each other in the playoffs for the next 20 years. Would you still call it a rivalry?

It will this year because Luck and the Colts will be a very solid team

Trader Joe
02-27-2013, 03:40 PM
It will this year because Luck and the Colts will be a very solid team

They don't play each other in the regular season next year I don't think

Hicks
02-27-2013, 04:32 PM
Wouldn't you say that Pacers-Pistons in the early 2000s was a rivalry?

Hard for me to say no, but then again the result (with an enormous *) is them beating us twice in the playoffs and being a better team before and after those two years. Had a certain incident not happened, I think we had a great shot of beating them at least in 2005.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 09:35 AM
Hard for me to say no, but then again the result (with an enormous *) is them beating us twice in the playoffs and being a better team before and after those two years. Had a certain incident not happened, I think we had a great shot of beating them at least in 2005.

The brawl escalated it.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 09:36 AM
They don't play each other in the regular season next year I don't think

Yeah you are right because the Pats won the AFC East and the Colts were second in the South. Well, Broncos and Colts will now be a rivalry since DEN has Peyton

Ace E.Anderson
02-28-2013, 10:11 AM
Yeah you are right because the Pats won the AFC East and the Colts were second in the South. Well, Broncos and Colts will now be a rivalry since DEN has Peyton

We won't play them enough for it to be a rivalry. In fact, unless we play them in the playoffs--we may not play them again while they have 18 as their QB.

Foul on Smits
02-28-2013, 10:53 AM
I think this is shaping up to be one of most anticipated ECF matchups in a long time.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 11:13 AM
We won't play them enough for it to be a rivalry. In fact, unless we play them in the playoffs--we may not play them again while they have 18 as their QB.

No we will if we finish in the same spot in our divisions, we will play them every season if that happens. If we win the AFC South and they win the West, we will play them the following season

Ace E.Anderson
02-28-2013, 11:25 AM
No we will if we finish in the same spot in our divisions, we will play them every season if that happens. If we win the AFC South and they win the West, we will play them the following season

It's unlikely we'll both finish in the same position within our respective divisions (as we always did with the Pats--which was weird lol)

And even if we did, they'll have Peyton for what, another 2 years maybe? Idk that 2-3 straights seasons of playing one another is a "rivalry". If that's the case there would be rivalry's all over every league, which makes them not as important.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 11:47 AM
It's unlikely we'll both finish in the same position within our respective divisions (as we always did with the Pats--which was weird lol)

And even if we did, they'll have Peyton for what, another 2 years maybe? Idk that 2-3 straights seasons of playing one another is a "rivalry". If that's the case there would be rivalry's all over every league, which makes them not as important.

Peyton still has 4 more years on his contract

TinManJoshua
02-28-2013, 12:08 PM
Steelers-browns is the real rivalry in the AFC north.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 12:14 PM
Steelers-browns is the real rivalry in the AFC north.

you better be joking

TinManJoshua
02-28-2013, 12:19 PM
you better be joking

You've never been there, I assume. Regardless of records, those two teams get up to play each other. Their fan bases despise each other, it's not a one way little brother/big brother thing. Certain rivalries transcend "competitiveness". Steelers-Browns is one of them.

So no, I'm most certainly not joking.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 01:40 PM
You've never been there, I assume. Regardless of records, those two teams get up to play each other. Their fan bases despise each other, it's not a one way little brother/big brother thing. Certain rivalries transcend "competitiveness". Steelers-Browns is one of them.

So no, I'm most certainly not joking.

Have you ever watched a Ravens-Steelers game

TinManJoshua
02-28-2013, 02:07 PM
Have you ever watched a Ravens-Steelers game

Nah, man, I don't watch football. I don't live in Ohio, I'm not friends nor aquaintences with several Steelers fans.

My brother-in-law is a yinzer, and a huge steeler fan. He really only has time and money to go to two games a year. Do you know which ones he chooses? The two times the Steelers and Browns play. He's not the outlier either.

Why do you think James Harrison has injured more Browns players than any other team combined in the last three years?

Plus, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are two hours apart, something I think is downplayed far too often when discussing rivalries. It's regional supremacy. Bragging rights between you and your next door neighbor.

idioteque
02-28-2013, 02:21 PM
Who really gives a crap about the NFL right now, all I know is that Pacers-Heat could shape up to be quite a nice rivalry.

Only player on their team I really don't like is Wade, but their idiotic fans on Real GM whose vocabulary doesn't extend much beyond whether or not someone is "bout this lyfe" makes me dislike their team even more. They're the epitome of the Stern model of dumbed down basketball marketed to people of below average intelligence and middle school students. I think we're the opposite. I hope real basketball wins out.

Coopdog23
02-28-2013, 07:23 PM
Nah, man, I don't watch football. I don't live in Ohio, I'm not friends nor aquaintences with several Steelers fans.

My brother-in-law is a yinzer, and a huge steeler fan. He really only has time and money to go to two games a year. Do you know which ones he chooses? The two times the Steelers and Browns play. He's not the outlier either.

Why do you think James Harrison has injured more Browns players than any other team combined in the last three years?

Plus, Cleveland and Pittsburgh are two hours apart, something I think is downplayed far too often when discussing rivalries. It's regional supremacy. Bragging rights between you and your next door neighbor.

Cleveland players just happen to get injured. The Steelers play much much harder when they play Baltimore than when they play Cleveland

TinManJoshua
02-28-2013, 08:14 PM
Cleveland players just happen to get injured. The Steelers play much much harder when they play Baltimore than when they play Cleveland

No, they don't. You're so off base here. Just trust me, I've been around the rivalry. I know how Browns fans feel and I know how Steelers fans feel. This is like saying "No, the Lakers and the Warriors have a bigger rivalry than the Lakers and the Clippers, the Lakers play harder against them, but I have no real evidence to back up my assertion."

Coopdog23
03-01-2013, 11:25 AM
No, they don't. You're so off base here. Just trust me, I've been around the rivalry. I know how Browns fans feel and I know how Steelers fans feel. This is like saying "No, the Lakers and the Warriors have a bigger rivalry than the Lakers and the Clippers, the Lakers play harder against them, but I have no real evidence to back up my assertion."

But I promise you the Steelers play harder when they play Baltimore because it means more than beating the Browns

Ace E.Anderson
03-01-2013, 11:41 AM
Peyton still has 4 more years on his contract

I doubt he plays out his entire contract. He'll be what, 40 by then?

Idk that Peyton will want to be 39 tossing 16 TD's in a season. But who knows.

TinManJoshua
03-01-2013, 12:33 PM
But I promise you the Steelers play harder when they play Baltimore because it means more than beating the Browns

"But I promise you that the Yankees play harder when they play Baltimore because it means more than beating the Red Sox"

McDunken
03-01-2013, 12:41 PM
Hey guys I think some of you are getting off topic from the Pacers/Heat Rivalry lol