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IUfan4life
02-24-2013, 01:22 PM
So this has been on my mind for a while now, and I'm wondering what others on here think.

Assuming everything holds in the East, and we meet Miami in the ECF, Where does Danny fit in?

I don't think there's any question that PG24 is who we want to guard Lebron. Danny can'y guard DWade, so that leaves us playing small, with Danny at the 4, and completely going against the strategy that should be used to beat the Heat, which is using our size advantage. Or Danny could end up on Lebron, which is what will probably happen, and we know that end result.

I guess I wonder if we match up better against the Heat, without Danny, or if I'm just completely off base here.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 01:27 PM
So this has been on my mind for a while now, and I'm wondering what others on here think.

Assuming everything holds in the East, and we meet Miami in the ECF, Where does Danny fit in?

I don't think there's any question that PG24 is who we want to guard Lebron. Danny can'y guard DWade, so that leaves us playing small, with Danny at the 4, and completely going against the strategy that should be used to beat the Heat, which is using our size advantage. Or Danny could end up on Lebron, which is what will probably happen, and we know that end result.

I guess I wonder if we match up better against the Heat, without Danny, or if I'm just completely off base here.

Most people will disagree with you. I don't. But I'm fine with trying Danny on LeBron. The problem is, he can blow by Danny so you have to help Danny...or he fouls or LeBron gets Roy in foul trouble.

Stopping the Heat is about stopping LeBron James. That's why I would opt for Paul guarding LeBron and let the other pieces fall into place as needed. LeBron is the one with Magic Johnson skills. He's the one you need to obstruct or guys like Chalmers and Battier will be the nail in the coffin.

Here's the key: Danny usually has to give LeBron more space because Danny doesn't have the foot speed. So what does LeBron do? He can do anything he wants to do...which means trouble.

croz24
02-24-2013, 01:29 PM
So this has been on my mind for a while now, and I'm wondering what others on here think.

Assuming everything holds in the East, and we meet Miami in the ECF, Where does Danny fit in?

I don't think there's any question that PG24 is who we want to guard Lebron. Danny can'y guard DWade, so that leaves us playing small, with Danny at the 4, and completely going against the strategy that should be used to beat the Heat, which is using our size advantage. Or Danny could end up on Lebron, which is what will probably happen, and we know that end result.

I guess I wonder if we match up better against the Heat, without Danny, or if I'm just completely off base here.

So take away your only distinct advantage against the Heat by going small? NO. And last I checked, Lance can guard opposing SGs pretty damn well...

cgg
02-24-2013, 01:29 PM
Do we really know that Danny can't guard Wade? We know that Wade can't guard Danny. I think an equally interesting decision is who they choose to have LeBron guard.

And we know the end result of guarding Wade with Leandro Barbosa and playing Lou Amundson at C. We don't know the end result of this team against the Heat at all.

J7F
02-24-2013, 01:36 PM
Do we really know that Danny can't guard Wade? We know that Wade can't guard Danny. I think an equally interesting decision is who they choose to have LeBron guard.

And we know the end result of guarding Wade with Leandro Barbosa and playing Lou Amundson at C. We don't know the end result of this team against the Heat at all.

Also... What stops us from playing Lance a little bit heavier when we face them?

It's not like the return of Danny prevents us from using a lineup that we know works well against Miami... It just means we might have to change our rotation around in that 7 game series... And at least we get one more test run at them with Danny before the games truly count...

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 01:42 PM
I think Danny would match up very well against Bosh. He matched up well against Garnett and Bosh is even less physical.

We really have good problems here. We would like to have all 6 of them on the floor.

bshall
02-24-2013, 01:43 PM
I know this won't happen but I'd love to see us use six starters in a way. Basically just start Danny or Lance based on which matchup is better or what would give the Pacers an advantage. I wish IU would do this same thing with Hulls and Sheehey against bigger teams but coaches and players like consistency so I understand why they don't do this.

cgg
02-24-2013, 01:45 PM
Another factor is PG has shown that he can play a lot more minutes this year than he did in last years series. LeBron wont get one minute where he isn't guarded by PG or DG.

BlueCollarColts
02-24-2013, 02:05 PM
why would we put Danny on LeBron if he can't guard Wade? Isn't LeBron tougher to guard than Wade is? LeBron is bigger, faster, and stronger than Wade. I think it would be easier for Danny to guard Wade than LeBron.

pacers74
02-24-2013, 02:07 PM
Let's give Danny a couple of Weeks or even a month before we try and guess what is capable of this year. If he is 100% back like he was last year, then he will probably start and he can guard LeBron or Wade. Lance is probably already a better defender, so he will probably get a ton of minutes. but if Danny is back to scoring 20 points per game in the playoffs I think he will start.

cgg
02-24-2013, 02:08 PM
Let's give Danny a couple of Weeks or even a month before we try and guess what is capable of this year. If he is 100% back like you was last year, then he will probably start and he can guard LeBron or Wade. Lance is probably already a better defender, so he will probably get a ton of minutes. but if Danny is back to scoring 20 points per game in the playoffs I think he will start.

No.

pacers74
02-24-2013, 02:09 PM
No.

then there's no argument here.

Sookie
02-24-2013, 02:26 PM
why would we put Danny on LeBron if he can't guard Wade? Isn't LeBron tougher to guard than Wade is? LeBron is bigger, faster, and stronger than Wade. I think it would be easier for Danny to guard Wade than LeBron.

They're different players. Paul George is a better player than George Hill, but you'd still have Granger guard the bigger guy.

Bottom line though, the combo of Granger/PG should be better defensively (and offensively) against Wade and Lebron than Lance/PG.

That's not to say PG isn't going to guard Lebron, I'm sure he will. And he'll probably defend him better because he won't have to do it for 40 minutes. But lets not pretend that PG is amazing defensively against Lebron. He's probably better than just about anyone else in the league. But Lebron still went 7 for 10 against him inside the 3 point line. And Lebron also figured out that he could easily back Paul George down. (Quite frankly, I found that to be the most concerning thing when we faced them) Which is most definitely going to be an issue in the playoffs. Lebron can't back Danny down the same way.

There's more than one way to defend a team. What people forget, is that the Heat won last season against us because Wade started to play at an MVP level too. Lebron wasn't beating us by himself. We were up 2-1 and the Heat looked like they were going down in the fourth...and then Wade woke up. He's not going to do that for four games aginst PG. He may not even be able to do it one. (And then, the Heat have an issue on offense. Who does Wade Guard? Granger or PG?)

cgg
02-24-2013, 02:28 PM
I seem to remember that they switched without being very concerned about it in the playoffs, so I don't think they were very concerned about it. I still have the games, so maybe I'll look for plays with Danny defending Wade if I get bored.

solid
02-24-2013, 02:50 PM
I was happy with Lance on Wade. I see Danny swapping in and out to cover the three or four spot. A few minute here or there against Wade will be ok but I'm not ready to see a lot of that.

Own the paint, stop the break, and match their outside shooting and we'll be fine.

The only thing that scares me about the heat is Labron never getting a foul called on him and fouling out all our guys. If we get a fair shake from the zebras then the Heat will have their hands full.

cgg
02-24-2013, 02:53 PM
If they want LeBron to be called for fouls, then they're gonna have to put the ball in the hands of the guy that he's guarding a lot more than they did last year.

ejwallace
02-24-2013, 02:58 PM
2-3 zone....Then no one guards anyone, you stop the penetration, and use the length of PG24 and GH3 to swat at the three point shooters....Just a thought....

PR07
02-24-2013, 03:00 PM
Stopping the Heat is about stopping LeBron James. That's why I would opt for Paul guarding LeBron and let the other pieces fall into place as needed. LeBron is the one with Magic Johnson skills. He's the one you need to obstruct or guys like Chalmers and Battier will be the nail in the coffin.


We aren't stopping LeBron James, he's too good. The key is to contain him though and limit the damage of other guys like Wade, Bosh, Battier, Chalmers, etc.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 03:27 PM
We aren't stopping LeBron James, he's too good. The key is to contain him though and limit the damage of other guys like Wade, Bosh, Battier, Chalmers, etc.

Yes, I agree with that. But slowing down LeBron means he cannot get other guys like Battier, Haslem and Chalmers open looks. They get stopped. That is a huge deal and where Paul is most valuable. LeBron is too busy trying to keep Paul from stealing the ball to get guys involved. Paul, unlike Danny, can crowd LeBron...get in the passing lanes. This is why Paul defends him much better. The fact LeBron might score on Paul or Danny isn't the issue. The issue is how easy the shots become for the other guys because LeBron can make his Magic Johnson type plays which quite frankly I think he has improved upon since last year.

As another poster mentioned, the only concern is that LeBron can indeed back Paul down more easily. If that happens and becomes a real issue, we may need Granger to spend more time guarding him. If that happens, we are in trouble IMO. Except for Hibbert's offense, we are a better team this year. The question is whether that will be enough if we keep with much the same strategy. ...and no, Ian as our backup C instead of Lou Amundson isn't going to make nearly enough of a difference.

Mr.Hinds
02-24-2013, 04:06 PM
I wouldn't mind Danny guarding Lebron for some minutes. Throw different bodies at him and see what happens. Paul is probably better overall but LBJ just uses his 250lbs to back him down. Danny isn't getting posted up that easily. People forget just how big Danny is for a small forward. PG is freakishly tall, long and athletic for his position and Lebron is a monster, but DG is still big for the 3.

The thing that is interesting to me is if Chris Bosh does some how start to start showing up in big games will we have to play Mahimi to negate his possible hot 15 foot jumper. He's been playing well lately defensively but he's kind of falling in love with his 17 foot jumper. I mean, they are a lot longer than I'm comfortable with. West sure, but West still takes more shot closer to the basket.

cgg
02-24-2013, 04:13 PM
I wouldn't mind Danny guarding Lebron for some minutes. Throw different bodies at him and see what happens. Paul is probably better overall but LBJ just uses his 250lbs to back him down. Danny isn't getting posted up that easily. People forget just how big Danny is for a small forward. PG is freakishly tall, long and athletic for his position and Lebron is a monster, but DG is still big for the 3.

The thing that is interesting to me is if Chris Bosh does some how start to start showing up in big games will we have to play Mahimi to negate his possible hot 15 foot jumper. He's been playing well lately defensively but he's kind of falling in love with his 17 foot jumper. I mean, they are a lot longer than I'm comfortable with. West sure, but West still takes more shot closer to the basket.

We'll just have West guard Bosh and Hibbert guard their non offensive PF if that happens.

Naptown_Seth
02-24-2013, 05:11 PM
Most people will disagree with you. I don't. But I'm fine with trying Danny on LeBron. The problem is, he can blow by Danny so you have to help Danny...or he fouls or LeBron gets Roy in foul trouble.

Stopping the Heat is about stopping LeBron James. That's why I would opt for Paul guarding LeBron and let the other pieces fall into place as needed. LeBron is the one with Magic Johnson skills. He's the one you need to obstruct or guys like Chalmers and Battier will be the nail in the coffin.

Here's the key: Danny usually has to give LeBron more space because Danny doesn't have the foot speed. So what does LeBron do? He can do anything he wants to do...which means trouble.
But last year what actually burned the Pacers was that Wade got very hot. Lebron puts up numbers but when Wade is on he is easily as dangerous and requires as much PG attention. Danny matches up pretty well with Lebron because he can defend the post far better than PG does (see Melo go right at him the other night, hurt Knicks that they stopped doing it).

You NEVER remove West or Roy from the lineup in the playoffs if you can help it. Roy's rim defense is critical to supporting that Wade/Lebron coverage and to avoid helping off a spot up 3 guy, and West can run off 25 if they don't move Lebron over to defend him. That Battier gimmick doesn't cut it anymore, and if Bosh covers him then West will just dribble it though his legs #ASG.

If something is wrong with Danny or the matchup then you have Lance go to Wade and let Danny come from the bench, but I don't see it coming to that even, and it wouldn't be that bad if it did.



Lebron and Wade have the potential to just hit crazy shots and carry the team, but of all the matchups this has to be the most favorable for the Pacers.

Naptown_Seth
02-24-2013, 05:18 PM
Also keep in mind that we are 2 months from seeing how Danny is fitting in for the playoffs and hopefully several weeks of playoff games after that before the Pacers even have to worry about solving the Heat.

They need to figure out matchups vs the Nets, Celts, Hawks, Bulls.

cgg
02-24-2013, 05:21 PM
But last year what actually burned the Pacers was that Wade got very hot. Lebron puts up numbers but when Wade is on he is easily as dangerous and requires as much PG attention. Danny matches up pretty well with Lebron because he can defend the post far better than PG does (see Melo go right at him the other night, hurt Knicks that they stopped doing it).

You NEVER remove West or Roy from the lineup in the playoffs if you can help it. Roy's rim defense is critical to supporting that Wade/Lebron coverage and to avoid helping off a spot up 3 guy, and West can run off 25 if they don't move Lebron over to defend him. That Battier gimmick doesn't cut it anymore, and if Bosh covers him then West will just dribble it though his legs #ASG.

If something is wrong with Danny or the matchup then you have Lance go to Wade and let Danny come from the bench, but I don't see it coming to that even, and it wouldn't be that bad if it did.



Lebron and Wade have the potential to just hit crazy shots and carry the team, but of all the matchups this has to be the most favorable for the Pacers.

:laugh:

boombaby1987
02-24-2013, 05:21 PM
Why do we think Danny is a better defender than Lance?

Sookie
02-24-2013, 05:37 PM
All right guys, I'm just going to say it.

We'll be playing the Heat. In the playoffs. One of our guys (at least) will likely be in foul trouble anyway..making this argument pretty moot. ;)

cgg
02-24-2013, 06:27 PM
Why do we think Danny is a better defender than Lance?

Watching and remembering beyond what has happened this season. Synergy. Defensive ratings for the same unit last year compared to this year with Lance in his place.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:07 PM
Why do we think Danny is a better defender than Lance?

They're roughly equal, just different. Lance must be doing pretty well considering we have historically good defense and David West isn't exactly the best defender at the PF position.

Lance may have improved his defense better than his offense. That's really what is most amazing about his game now. I did not think he could do it.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:09 PM
Watching and remembering beyond what has happened this season. Synergy. Defensive ratings for the same unit last year compared to this year with Lance in his place.

I don't think comparing Lance to his performance last year is helpful. He is not the same player.

Edit: our Defensive rating is 1st in the league. It was 9th with Granger locking down people last year. IDK.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:15 PM
I don't think comparing Lance to his performance last year is helpful. He is not the same player.

Edit: our Defensive rating is 1st in the league. It was 9th with Granger locking down people last year. IDK.

The defensive rating of the starting lineup was better last year than this year. We don't have any numbers for Danny other than last year.

ilive4sports
02-24-2013, 09:19 PM
I don't think comparing Lance to his performance last year is helpful. He is not the same player.

Edit: our Defensive rating is 1st in the league. It was 9th with Granger locking down people last year. IDK.
last year we also had Collison vs Hill this year, Hibbert is better this year and West is also much better on D this year.

Guarding LeBron is not a one man job. Its a whole team effort, part of that is shutting down his options. thats one of the biggest reasons we've beaten Miami twice this year. LeBron is gonna get his. He's gotten his vs PG this season. Remember the first game this season against the Heat? It was a tie game at the half, Wade was hot. Second half we saw a lot more of PG switching onto Wade, i think Wade scored 4 points in the second half. Honestly we are probably gonna throw a lot of different looks at the Heat, keep them on their toes. Adding Danny to the rotation will only help.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:19 PM
The defensive rating of the starting lineup was better last year than this year.

I don't believe that. Not with Darren Collison in the starting lineup too. If so, I would seriously doubt however that stat is calculated.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:25 PM
I don't believe that. Not with Darren Collison in the starting lineup too. If so, I would seriously doubt however that stat is calculated.

Facts do not depend on you believing them. There's nothing complicated about points per possession

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:26 PM
last year we also had Collison vs Hill this year, Hibbert is better this year and West is also much better on D this year.

Guarding LeBron is not a one man job. Its a whole team effort, part of that is shutting down his options. thats one of the biggest reasons we've beaten Miami twice this year. LeBron is gonna get his. He's gotten his vs PG this season. Remember the first game this season against the Heat? It was a tie game at the half, Wade was hot. Second half we saw a lot more of PG switching onto Wade, i think Wade scored 4 points in the second half. Honestly we are probably gonna throw a lot of different looks at the Heat, keep them on their toes. Adding Danny to the rotation will only help.

Yes it will help. Good point about West. He is a lot more mobile and that's a big reason why our D is better. He was a weak point on D an might be why there is a difference.

Really, we continue to compare apples to oranges around here. West isn't last year's West. Lance isn't last year's Lance. Paul isn't last year's Paul. Stats can be wheeled out by anyone and they almost always can be refuted.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:27 PM
Facts do not depend on you believing them. There's nothing complicated about points per possession

Stats do not equal facts either.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:30 PM
Stats do not equal facts either.

The point of defense is to prevent points. Last years starting lineups allowed less points than this years starting lineup. That is a fact.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:36 PM
The point of defense is to prevent points. Last years starting lineups allowed less points than this years starting lineup. That is a fact.

Paul George is playing 37 minutes a game this year. 29 last year. Perhaps he's getting a little winded.

West is logging 33 this year. 29 last year. Again, how can you reconcile all of this? It's apples and oranges and why stats lie. They lie all the time.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:39 PM
No. They say exactly what they say.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:40 PM
No. They say exactly what they say.

When you draw conclusions from them, that's where you get in trouble.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:42 PM
When you draw conclusions from them, that's where you get in trouble.

When you draw conclusions that go against the best available information you get in trouble. I've nothing else to say about it though.

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 09:46 PM
When you draw conclusions that go against the best available information you get in trouble. I've nothing else to say about it though.

I have one final thing. The starters have played 18 more minutes per game compared to last year if you consider Hill to be last year's starter. 18 minutes to get more fatigued and give up more points per possession. Yes, the stat tells you what it is exactly. But whatever meaning people draw from it need to factor in a LOT more things than meet the eye.

Edit: ...and what I'm pointing out is hardly the whole story.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:54 PM
I have one final thing. The starters have played 18 more minutes per game compared to last year if you consider Hill to be last year's starter. 18 minutes to get more fatigued and give up more points per possession. Yes, the stat tells you what it is exactly. But whatever meaning people draw from it need to factor in a LOT more things than meet the eye.

Edit: ...and what I'm pointing out is hardly the whole story.

They played a much more condensed schedule though. The increased minutes probably contributes to the overall defense being better, plus Mahinmi over Amundson, etc. It will be a very good thing that they can play more minutes this year once we hit the playoffs.

ilive4sports
02-24-2013, 09:54 PM
Points in across the board are up in the entire league. Remember, last year was a shortened season and offenses were behind. Last season 3 teams averaged 100+ points. This year 8 are. And on the defensive end on the whole, we are allowing 89.4ppg this season vs 94.4ppg last season. 41.3% this year vs 43.5% last year. So in a year where offenses are better, our defense is better as well. Sure the stats say that last year the starters may have allowed fewer points, but it doesn't mean the defense was better. Statistics are just a tool to use.

cgg
02-24-2013, 09:57 PM
Points in across the board are up in the entire league. Remember, last year was a shortened season and offenses were behind. Last season 3 teams averaged 100+ points. This year 8 are. And on the defensive end on the whole, we are allowing 89.4ppg this season vs 94.4ppg last season. 41.3% this year vs 43.5% last year. So in a year where offenses are better, our defense is better as well. Sure the stats say that last year the starters may have allowed fewer points, but it doesn't mean the defense was better. Statistics are just a tool to use.

The original post cites more than just one stat.

ilive4sports
02-24-2013, 10:02 PM
The original post cites more than just one stat.
So? Doesnt change the fact that statistics are just a tool and don't tell the whole story.

Cubs231721
02-24-2013, 10:05 PM
The point of defense is to prevent points. Last years starting lineups allowed less points than this years starting lineup. That is a fact.

If I'm reading the stats correctly I don't think that's true anymore. The most used starting lineup from last year (Collison/George/Granger/West/Hibbert) allowed 1.00 points per possession. The second most used lineup with Hill in it was at 0.97. The main starting lineup from this year is now at 0.96.

The offensive rating from this year's starting lineup (1.10) is now similar to both from last year as well (1.09 with Collison and 1.12 with Hill).

BlueNGold
02-24-2013, 10:10 PM
I like the free throw percentage stat. Pretty solid. But even it doesn't factor in circumstances of the shot. What the score is, how loud the crowd is, etc. It just leaves me with more questions than anything and nothing to stand on.

Even looking at this year vs last. We do have a better bench. I think. Maybe the starters don't have to clamp down as hard when they get back in the game....so they give up more points. It's all rather confusing. Infinitely confusing.

cgg
02-24-2013, 10:13 PM
If I'm reading the stats correctly I don't think that's true anymore. The most used starting lineup from last year (Collison/George/Granger/West/Hibbert) allowed 1.00 points per possession. The second most used lineup with Hill in it was at 0.97. The main starting lineup from this year is now at 0.96.

The offensive rating from this year's starting lineup (1.10) is now similar to both from last year as well (1.09 with Collison and 1.12 with Hill).

1) That is great. We have been on a roll lately.

2) My use of that is now flawed and irrelevant. :laugh:

cgg
02-24-2013, 10:15 PM
I like the free throw percentage stat. Pretty solid. But even it doesn't factor in circumstances of the shot. What the score is, how loud the crowd is, etc. It just leaves me with more questions than anything and nothing to stand on.

Even looking at this year vs last. We do have a better bench. I think. Maybe the starters don't have to clamp down as hard when they get back in the game....so they give up more points. It's all rather confusing. Infinitely confusing.

The bench defense is definitely better. I think the bench offense is coming around too. DJ has been tons better since his benching. Even Tyler is more efficient than last year.

Free throw percentage is something that will go back up with Danny. Hopefully PG starts drawing more fouls too.

docpaul
02-24-2013, 10:21 PM
I like the free throw percentage stat. Pretty solid. But even it doesn't factor in circumstances of the shot. What the score is, how loud the crowd is, etc. It just leaves me with more questions than anything and nothing to stand on.

Even looking at this year vs last. We do have a better bench. I think. Maybe the starters don't have to clamp down as hard when they get back in the game....so they give up more points. It's all rather confusing. Infinitely confusing.

Once we've gotten to a place where Gerald, Ben, Jeff, Miles, and Sam rarely see the floor... then yes, yes we have a better bench.

Hansbrough is having a much better year... and of course he is: it's his contract year... he's working to get paid.

Mahinmi is a legit signing. Glad to have him locked up for 3 more years, even though he's been off over the past dozen games.

Augustin is what we thought he was before we signed him. A good backup PG that's building confidence quickly.

Johnson has been a total breath of fresh air. Building a ton of confidence with his outside shot, and actually is willing to draw contact in the post. I start to wonder who Thunderbird1245 knows on the scouting team? :) Is he a Pacers scout? :)

Then you bring Lance back to 6th man? I actually think those five could play pretty damn well together.

cgg
02-24-2013, 10:23 PM
I doubt Tyler is working any harder. He goes all out all the time. He's making less mistakes. I doubt he will just start making them again.

Pacerized
02-24-2013, 11:08 PM
IMO Danny guards Lebron better then Paul. Paul just doesn't have the strength to keep Lebron from scoring at will in the paint and he drives a lot. I'd bet Vogel puts Danny on him when they play March 10th. PG is better suited to guard Wade then anyone else on this team.

PR07
02-24-2013, 11:17 PM
I actually think Granger did just about as good a job against LeBron as anyone in last year's postseason.

graphic-er
02-24-2013, 11:24 PM
I think with the emergence of Lance and Orlando at the 2 spot we we will actually see both Danny and Paul on Lebron at different times in the game. Lance and Orlando will be used to contain wade. Foul trouble will not be an issue for our wings.

CableKC
02-24-2013, 11:44 PM
Who else thinks that this is a happy problem to finally have?

brownjake43
02-25-2013, 12:07 AM
I think with the emergence of Lance and Orlando at the 2 spot we we will actually see both Danny and Paul on Lebron at different times in the game. Lance and Orlando will be used to contain wade. Foul trouble will not be an issue for our wings.

This will be true for our game in March, but in the playoffs Orlando won't get much PT because we have 3 starting wings on this team, and all 3 will get starters minutes in the playoffs. No matter who is guarding who, LeBron and Wade will be getting guarded by 2/3 all game long! Thank God we have Lance Stephenson instead of Leandro Barbosa! Also, as stated before, PG has proven he can play BIG minutes. I expect our bench will only use Augustin, Stephenson, Mahinmi, and Hans for the playoffs.

The Future
02-25-2013, 12:20 AM
Danny Granger played LBJ pretty well last postseason. Only the last 2 games LBJ shot over 50% from the field so he contained him pretty well.

If Paul George was what he is today, we would have had a great chance to advance last postseason.

I'm not too worried about the matchups.

Harp
02-25-2013, 12:37 AM
The end of games are more important. Miami runs that small lineup near the end, and having the ability to have Hill, George, Lance and Granger on the floor along with Hibbert or West will help defend their drive and kick for 3. Granger guarding Allen or Battier gives all of our defenders the ability to switch on PNR's. Then the question is who does Miami have to guard our guys?

cinotimz
02-25-2013, 01:58 AM
The key last year wasnt really who was going to guard who when it came to Danny and PG. Danny guards lebron and honestly does the best job on him. He wont get abused in the post as bad. And you would rather take ur chances with lebron taking long jumpers. So as long as Danny is completely healthy by then-which is real question right now-then Danny willl guard Lebron most of the time and PG will guard Wade. But the key becomes what happens when one of Danny or PG isnt on the floor for whatever reason. Thats where we should be worlds better on the defensive end because last year we were in trouble when that happened. But this year you have Lance who is definitely in the head of both Wade and Lebron and Lance does a decent job with Wade all things considered. Then you have OJ, Sam and even GG. None of these guys are as bad as Barbosa was defensively. In fact this is one of the reasons we say this team is built to beat the Heat. Because we really dont have a bad wing defender. So when Danny and PG are out of the game due to foul trouble, rest etc. we shouldnt have such a big problem defending them as we did last postseason when it happened. I also look for Vogel to have either Danny or Paul on the floor at all times. Of course, again dependent on Danny returning to form.

OlBlu
02-25-2013, 09:23 AM
The key last year wasnt really who was going to guard who when it came to Danny and PG. Danny guards lebron and honestly does the best job on him. He wont get abused in the post as bad. And you would rather take ur chances with lebron taking long jumpers. So as long as Danny is completely healthy by then-which is real question right now-then Danny willl guard Lebron most of the time and PG will guard Wade. But the key becomes what happens when one of Danny or PG isnt on the floor for whatever reason. Thats where we should be worlds better on the defensive end because last year we were in trouble when that happened. But this year you have Lance who is definitely in the head of both Wade and Lebron and Lance does a decent job with Wade all things considered. Then you have OJ, Sam and even GG. None of these guys are as bad as Barbosa was defensively. In fact this is one of the reasons we say this team is built to beat the Heat. Because we really dont have a bad wing defender. So when Danny and PG are out of the game due to foul trouble, rest etc. we shouldnt have such a big problem defending them as we did last postseason when it happened. I also look for Vogel to have either Danny or Paul on the floor at all times. Of course, again dependent on Danny returning to form.

How could Lebron abuse anyone more in the paint than he did the Pacers in last years playoffs. Danny is a nonfactor to LBJ who will score over him around him and right through him if he needs to do it......:cool:

OlBlu
02-25-2013, 09:24 AM
Danny Granger played LBJ pretty well last postseason. Only the last 2 games LBJ shot over 50% from the field so he contained him pretty well.

If Paul George was what he is today, we would have had a great chance to advance last postseason.

I'm not too worried about the matchups.

You evidently watched a different playoff series than I saw.......:cool:

Tom White
02-25-2013, 11:30 AM
Count me in the category or those who think this is the perfect series for Granger to come off the bench. I think Paul and Lance will do as well (if not better) than any other combination we can throw at James and Wade, plus Danny should be able to really take advantage of whomever the Heat put in as a sub for James. I think it would not hurt our starting unit, and would greatly benefit the second unit to have him out there. He should thrive much better than he would vs. James.

Ace E.Anderson
02-25-2013, 12:32 PM
To answer the question of the Post--nobody should have to guard Lebron all game, all series long. We should switch guys around (mainly Paul and Danny) and not let him get comfortable. To be honest--Lebron is going to get 26-30 points regardless of whether DG guards him or PG guards him. There's some type of idea that Lebron hasn't beaten the Pacers up this year yet he's averaging 25 ppg on 51% shooting. But we're 2-0 against them because we haven't let ANYONE else beat us (Chalmers, Battier, Allen, Bosh, Haslem) so far. Bosh has been a ghost, Allen has yet to score a FG, Chalmers, Battier, and Haslem have been non-factors.

People seem to forget that we had the Heat on the ropes last year in game 4. Yes Lebron and Wade put on their capes to beat the pacers....but it was Udonis Haslem knocking down 3 mid range J's in the 4th that closed the game. He doesn't hit those, we may have a chance to win the game.

No you can't allow the superstars to go off for 40+ points, because obviously you will lose. But if we continue to shut down, Bosh, Allen, Chalmers, etc--then we have a decent shot. We essentially have 3 main guys (Lance, Paul, Danny) to guard Wade and Bron'--then you sprinkle in Sam Young and MAYBE OJ for 3-4 minutes if there's foul trouble (which there will be in the playoffs)

But nobody is going to guard, nor "stop" Lebron within a playoff series.

sav
02-25-2013, 01:25 PM
No offense, but I think this question is aked with a losers mentality. By that I mean that teams that are used to losing ask "how do we match up with X?" Winners simply put their best players on the floor and let their opponents worry about how to stop them.

How will the Heat stop Granger AND George? LeBron can't guard both of them and either one will have a definite size advantage over Wade. What about Hibbert? Miami doesn't have a seven footer to cover him. Do they put Bosh on him? If they do, who covers West?

While the Pacers have to be concerned with LeBron/DWade/Bosh, the Heat will have to be concerned with Granger/George/West/Hibbert and Hill.

BlueNGold
02-25-2013, 11:03 PM
The nice thing about having both Danny and Paul is that foul trouble will be less likely. If either get in foul trouble with LeBron, you throw the other guy at him. I know Sam Young isn't a great alternative, but even he may be able to keep LeBron off the rim.

...then if West gets in foul trouble, we could shift Danny over to PF and be fine. I think we are a major matchup problem for them now that Paul and Lance moved up a couple notches from last year. It's amazing to me that Lance looks remotely competent guarding DWade. He has come such a long way.

cgg
02-25-2013, 11:08 PM
The nice thing about having both Danny and Paul is that foul trouble will be less likely. If either get in foul trouble with LeBron, you throw the other guy at him. I know Sam Young isn't a great alternative, but even he may be able to keep LeBron off the rim.

...then if West gets in foul trouble, we could shift Danny over to PF and be fine. I think we are a major matchup problem for them now that Paul and Lance moved up a couple notches from last year. It's amazing to me that Lance looks remotely competent guarding DWade. He has come such a long way.

Roy Hibbert keeps LeBron off the rim. Danny and PG make his shots harder. If LeBron wants to get past them he will get past them. Hibbert makes him not want to.

D-BONE
02-25-2013, 11:16 PM
Let's give Danny a couple of Weeks or even a month before we try and guess what is capable of this year. If he is 100% back like he was last year, then he will probably start and he can guard LeBron or Wade. Lance is probably already a better defender, so he will probably get a ton of minutes. but if Danny is back to scoring 20 points per game in the playoffs I think he will start.

And if he's not back to that, then hopefully Vogel & Co. will recognize that he may not be the best option to start and/or play in certain matchups.

D-BONE
02-25-2013, 11:23 PM
Facts do not depend on you believing them. There's nothing complicated about points per possession

But PPP stats in and of themselves cannot make an absolute determination of which defense is better. All of this is purely opinion. There no way to prove some type of scientific causality on something of this nature.

D-BONE
02-25-2013, 11:27 PM
They played a much more condensed schedule though. The increased minutes probably contributes to the overall defense being better, plus Mahinmi over Amundson, etc. It will be a very good thing that they can play more minutes this year once we hit the playoffs.

The condensed schedule in and of itself would make the comparison impossible to construe as at all scientific or somehow objectively factual, no? These argument are essentially like debating who's the G.O.A.T. What statistical or other quantitative data do we define it by? That alone is worthy of debate. And once you identify the particular quantitative criteria, there are still legitimate counterarguments and overall disagreement.

Banta
02-26-2013, 12:32 AM
Danny is a good defensive player, IMHO. Lance is also a good defender. Lance brings a more raw, frenetic energy to the floor which I believe is distracting to opponents. What he may not have in technique and discipline on D, he makes up by being disruptive. I prefer Lance, but I am not a Danny hater.

Another poster tried to make a point about everyone playing because they'll be picking up fouls. Extra fouls is a seldom appreciated benefit of having a solid bench. The more guys whom you can trust on the floor, the more fouls you can afford to give. West gets in trouble, for example, and the Pacers can also squeeze fouls out of Mahinmi, Tyler and Pendergrapgh. Right now I'm stoked that we can trust having Pendergraph and OJ on the floor because we can help our starters keep their fouls in check for crunch time.

cinotimz
02-26-2013, 03:09 AM
How could Lebron abuse anyone more in the paint than he did the Pacers in last years playoffs. Danny is a nonfactor to LBJ who will score over him around him and right through him if he needs to do it......:cool:

I believe it might be you that watched a different series...;)

CableKC
02-26-2013, 04:40 AM
How could Lebron abuse anyone more in the paint than he did the Pacers in last years playoffs. Danny is a nonfactor to LBJ who will score over him around him and right through him if he needs to do it......:cool:
No one really limits LeDecision....he will get his points regardless......the key is to make him work real hard for it. Throw PG, Granger and Young at him to make it work for the points. The harder LeDecision works on the other end of the court......the more worn out he will be over the course of a Playoff Series.

OlBlu
02-26-2013, 09:56 AM
No one really limits LeDecision....he will get his points regardless......the key is to make him work real hard for it. Throw PG, Granger and Young at him to make it work for the points. The harder LeDecision works on the other end of the court......the more worn out he will be over the course of a Playoff Series.

He played every minute last year and he didn't look worn out to me. I think you are talking about a much different player who is bigger, stronger and quicker than anyone who guards him. It always seem to me that he wears them out.....:cool:

Pacerized
02-26-2013, 11:02 AM
I believe it might be you that watched a different series...;)

I think this is the case for every game he watches. Danny was a very good defender last year and defended Lebron better then anyone did during the playoffs. He's still our best option to be the primary defender to put on Lebron if he's healthy.

Trader Joe
02-26-2013, 11:29 AM
No one human being on this planet can guard Lebron for an entire 7 game series. We tried to have Danny do mostly solo duty on Lebron last year and Lebron wore him out. You have to wonder how much that fatigue lead tot he game 5 injury.

You switch Paul and Danny up on lebron. That way they both keep their legs fresher. Wade is still a great player, but he just simply does not punish your body the way Lebron can.

Coopdog23
02-26-2013, 01:37 PM
No one human being on this planet can guard Lebron for an entire 7 game series. We tried to have Danny do mostly solo duty on Lebron last year and Lebron wore him out. You have to wonder how much that fatigue lead tot he game 5 injury.

You switch Paul and Danny up on lebron. That way they both keep their legs fresher. Wade is still a great player, but he just simply does not punish your body the way Lebron can.

We can also put Sam Young on him as well when PG and Granger are tired

pumpk35
02-26-2013, 02:01 PM
We can also put Sam Young on him as well when PG and Granger are tired
This IMO, Sam's D is underrated. There's been tons of times where he catches a defensive mistake by a teammate before it ever happens and he's there to deny the blow by. Not to mention his passing lane ability and the fact that he seems to be able to recover on defense really easily even when he gambles. In fact, I thought the whole reason we brought him in was to throw him at Lebron or wade for 15 mins a game.
IMO our matchups should be
Danny/pg/young - Lebron
Pg/Stephenson/young - Wade
Which means stephenson and young should be our wings if we don't switch to a 3 man wing combo.
I personally don't like OJ on wade at all, the reason wade has been nullified in games so far is due to Lance's ability to show out when it all matters. I honestly believe that lance's pride makes him really focus on D and being a stopper when he has a big defensive matchup/assignment.

Trader Joe
02-26-2013, 02:03 PM
We can also put Sam Young on him as well when PG and Granger are tired

Sure. We are just a much bigger team off the bench than last year.

DC and DJ are a wash.

Tyler is still Tyler

But

Ian for Lou...huge change

Lance or Danny for Barbosa...also a huge change

Sam Young for....whoever? Dahntay I guess. About even but Sam is a bit bigger. Dahntay probably a bit quicker.

Cousy47
02-26-2013, 03:59 PM
Maybe put Tyler and/or Pender on LeBron for a few minutes and let them muscle with him. We ne to worry about finishing the season before we worry so much about the ECF. We should know more about our matchups after the March 10th game.