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pacerDU
12-20-2004, 10:56 PM
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BKN_BRAWL_LAWSUIT?SITE=ININS&SECTION=SPORTS

What a joke!

You come onto the floor - you pay the penalty.

canyoufeelit
12-20-2004, 11:42 PM
Isn't that the idiot who's going to get hit with a criminal trespassing charge?

pacerDU
12-20-2004, 11:57 PM
I think it's either the guy in the pistons jersey who confronted Artest on the floor. Or the person who came to help him after Artest hit him (looked like his brother).

I just can't believe this guy has the nerve to do that! If you physically confront someone, what do you expect them to do?!

People just don't want to take responsibility for their own actions :irked:

King Mob
12-21-2004, 12:40 AM
Shackelford is the guy that confronted Artest, Haddad is the guy who pushed Ron off him.

He could concievably have a case, as he didn't really "confront" anyone, least of all JO. The legal minds here will know better...

Kegboy
12-21-2004, 01:40 AM
He's facing a trespassing charge, which means $500 fine and up to 90 days in jail.

Considering I'm sure AJ and JO have top flight lawyers, I would love to see this actually go to court. When you factor in that this guy supposedly was already known to Detroit security due to an incident with Yao, where the guy admitted he was looking to "get paid", he may end up having to pay court costs.

Problem is, I'm afraid the NBA will be pressuring the guys to settle. I'd tell them I would, once they reduced the suspensions.

Eindar
12-21-2004, 07:29 AM
I don't see that this guy has a case, due to the trespassing charge. It's in the same vein as a burglar who breaks his neck due to tripping over a toy that was left in the floor the night he was trying to rob you. Cant' sue for that, can't sue for this.

Manuel
12-21-2004, 10:29 AM
I don't see that this guy has a case, due to the trespassing charge. It's in the same vein as a burglar who breaks his neck due to tripping over a toy that was left in the floor the night he was trying to rob you. Cant' sue for that, can't sue for this.
You know, I have heard of burglars breaking into houses, getting hurt, suing, and winning the suit. I know it sounds ridiculous but it has happened.

It is obvious that this guy was and is looking for a quick buck, that is always disgusting to me. But it doesn't take away from the fact that JO came out of nowhere and knocked him out. JO wont have self-defense to fall back on.

What will JOs defense be?

indygeezer
12-21-2004, 10:42 AM
He's facing a trespassing charge, which means $500 fine and up to 90 days in jail.

Considering I'm sure AJ and JO have top flight lawyers, I would love to see this actually go to court. When you factor in that this guy supposedly was already known to Detroit security due to an incident with Yao, where the guy admitted he was looking to "get paid", he may end up having to pay court costs.

Problem is, I'm afraid the NBA will be pressuring the guys to settle. I'd tell them I would, once they reduced the suspensions.


I thought this was the same guy mentioned in the DA's PC. I figure he's hoping somebody will settle OOC....but with that comment made public during the PC, I'd be fighting him. Now, the legal types can argue whether that would be admissable or whether it was hearsay.

Peck
12-21-2004, 11:07 AM
My gut feeling is they will settle out of court. However if it does go to court I think that Mr. Haddad will win & he might win big.

Trespassing is not a green light to be beaten.

I've read people on here who beleive that there is a magical barrier that allows the law to cease to exist.

If you are driving down 21st street & you see someone trespass on the grounds of Methodist Hospital are you allowed to stop, get out of your car & beat them until the police arrive?

The answer is no course.

Now someone is going to bring into the fact that there was a fight involved & again I will point out that it was Shackelford that threatened Ron not Haddad.

The fact that Johnson beat him while he was litterally face down on the ground & then we've all seen the punch that O'Neal laid on him while he was on his knees.

Sorry, but just because he was in a place he shouldn't have been does not allow people to beat on him.

Manuel
12-21-2004, 02:21 PM
My gut feeling is they will settle out of court. However if it does go to court I think that Mr. Haddad will win & he might win big.

Trespassing is not a green light to be beaten.

I've read people on here who beleive that there is a magical barrier that allows the law to cease to exist.

If you are driving down 21st street & you see someone trespass on the grounds of Methodist Hospital are you allowed to stop, get out of your car & beat them until the police arrive?

The answer is no course.

Now someone is going to bring into the fact that there was a fight involved & again I will point out that it was Shackelford that threatened Ron not Haddad.

The fact that Johnson beat him while he was litterally face down on the ground & then we've all seen the punch that O'Neal laid on him while he was on his knees.

Sorry, but just because he was in a place he shouldn't have been does not allow people to beat on him.
I agree 100%.

O'neal and Johnson better settle out of court.

When I watch it on tape it just doesn't look good. The guy falls down and Anthony and Jermaine just basically nail away.:shakehead

able
12-21-2004, 02:40 PM
Upon a "normal" trespassing/urglary call I would agree with you Peck, but in law there are gradations and terms for "finding" trouble.

One of the basic reasons for not getting a "reward" when hurt in this matter or in the matter of a car-accident is "circumstances": if you go into a demolition derby, you can hardly hold the guy who hits you responsible for a wiplash, If there is an obvious altercation/riot going on, the court is the last place you should go, seeking refuge does not fly since the exits are for that, in other words; he was looking for trouble and low and behold found it. Now that he did he is gonna blame someone else for getting hurt, that I can not see flying in a court of law.
I would be surprised if the case wasn't thrown out very quickly.

Walking in to a bear cage and complain they want me for supper is outright stupid.

Add to that his "earlier" mishaps and "hearsay" comments and he stands as much chance as a snowball does on my central heating.

ChicagoJ
12-21-2004, 03:42 PM
Sorry, but just because he was in a place he shouldn't have been does not allow people to beat on him.
No, but it may go a long way toward mitigating/ lessening any civil liability by the players.

Even if JO and AJ are found to be liable, I could see the award set at a pittance level so that this ruling doesn't encourage other knuckleheads to come onto the court as part of a get rich/ free publicity scheme.

DisplacedKnick
12-21-2004, 03:52 PM
I'd like to know what seats he had myself. If they were courtside, then wandering onto the court's pretty legit - how else do you get away? If they were in the stands - anywhere in the stands - that makes a big difference.

Then you have damages. Was he hospitalized? Did he lose work? I don't buy mental anguish.

I think it's likely he'll get something - I also don't think it'll be much. I guess the judge could look at punitive damages but I don't see it.

Alabama-Redneck
12-21-2004, 04:25 PM
My gut feeling is they will settle out of court. However if it does go to court I think that Mr. Haddad will win & he might win big.

Trespassing is not a green light to be beaten.

I've read people on here who beleive that there is a magical barrier that allows the law to cease to exist.

If you are driving down 21st street & you see someone trespass on the grounds of Methodist Hospital are you allowed to stop, get out of your car & beat them until the police arrive?

The answer is no course.

Now someone is going to bring into the fact that there was a fight involved & again I will point out that it was Shackelford that threatened Ron not Haddad.

The fact that Johnson beat him while he was litterally face down on the ground & then we've all seen the punch that O'Neal laid on him while he was on his knees.

Sorry, but just because he was in a place he shouldn't have been does not allow people to beat on him.
Peck, you must have a different version of the altercation than I have. I have all the tapes from that night plus the one posted on this forum.

Haddad grabbed hold of Artest around the waist and leg when Ron punched Shackelford. He was aggressive in his actions and Ron shoved him to the floor. Now, he was getting up and still yelling at Ron when AJ hit him and knocked him down. He was on his knees, not laying "literally" face down, when AJ hit him and he was standing on his feet when JO hit him, not on his knees.

If you have any insight into what his intentions were, then you need to get hold of everyone's lawyers and become a star witness.

I am not trying to start a "flame war" but your statements are wrong.

Also, when you are driving on 21st Street, someone is tresspassing, you stop your car and they aggressively come toward you, what do you do?

I have been in a "few" altercations and being hesitant will get you hurt. Being aggressive can get you hurt also and I know both and being aggressive is usually better.

:cool:

Hicks
12-21-2004, 04:58 PM
Alabama, where did you get these other tapes, and is there any chance you can make digital copies we could host on the site? I'd certainly be very interested.

Manuel
12-21-2004, 05:09 PM
I have been in a "few" altercations and being hesitant will get you hurt. Being aggressive can get you hurt also and I know both and being aggressive is usually better.
:cool:I agree, but in O'neal's case it is different. There was an altercation, someone fell to the floor(because there was beer on the court), the person tries to get up, and before he is up, and aware of what's happening in front of him, JO wacks him in the face. Notice that the guy didn't even know what hit him. It just doesn't look good. Especially, when it is on tape.

Alabama-Redneck
12-21-2004, 05:57 PM
I agree, but in O'neal's case it is different. There was an altercation, someone fell to the floor(because there was beer on the court), the person tries to get up, and before he is up, and aware of what's happening in front of him, JO wacks him in the face. Notice that the guy didn't even know what hit him. It just doesn't look good. Especially, when it is on tape.
I also agree to a point. You must look at what transpired prior to the punch. This guy was somewhere he was not supposed to be, he was aggressive with Ron and was shoved to the floor, was yelling (who knows what) at Ron and AJ, AJ hits him and he gets up (with help) and JO hits him.

All this transpires in a matter seconds in a highly charged "us against them" enviroment. Was JO wrong? Probably but it appears he was trying to protect instead of being the aggressor. Who knows what was going through that guy's mind or what was going to be his next move.

:cool:

King Mob
12-22-2004, 07:28 PM
I don't see how you can say JO was trying to be a protector in that situation. Haddad was surrounded by 4 people at the time-two Palace security guys,one of whom was helping him up, James Jones and Austin Croshere- none of whom where reacting to Haddad as if he were a threat. Artest was a couple of feet away, unrestrained and watching, and was not reacting to Haddad. Haddad was not making any threatening gestures or even looking at JO. And if you watch the tape, JO runs past Croshere and James to deliver the blow.

Who was it that JO thought he had to clobber Haddad to protect? Croshere and Jones were within 2 feet of the guy, and literally didn't so much as have their hands raised.

Alabama-Redneck
12-22-2004, 07:56 PM
I don't see how you can say JO was trying to be a protector in that situation. Haddad was surrounded by 4 people at the time-two Palace security guys,one of whom was helping him up, James Jones and Austin Croshere- none of whom where reacting to Haddad as if he were a threat. Artest was a couple of feet away, unrestrained and watching, and was not reacting to Haddad. Haddad was not making any threatening gestures or even looking at JO. And if you watch the tape, JO runs past Croshere and James to deliver the blow.

Who was it that JO thought he had to clobber Haddad to protect? Croshere and Jones were within 2 feet of the guy, and literally didn't so much as have their hands raised.
After further review, you are wrong. Yes, there was 1 security person (blue shirt) trying to help him up and another (red shirt) close. Jones and Foster were behind them at least 10 feet, Croshere was about 8 feet away and a security guard was holding Johnson about 5 feet away. This guy gets up, mouth running and looking right at Johnson, who is being held (from behind) by a security guard. JO comes in and decks him.

Does JO think this guy is going after Johnson, who knows but AJ was being held and anything could have happened. I think I know what I would have done if I were in JO's place.

Anyway, it is all over and all the discussion will not change anything or anyones opinion.

:cool: