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View Full Version : Who's better Paul Pierce or Paul George?



mattie
02-19-2013, 02:18 AM
Forgive me if this has already been posted. I haven't seen it posted yet.

http://dimemag.com/2013/02/whos-better-paul-pierce-vs-paul-george/2/

There are two different arguments posted. This is the pro Paul George argument.



Paul George doesnít have the years of experience, the dozens of clutch shots or the world championship under his belt.

Heís only got everything else.

Heís a young player whose role has grown from complimentary player to NBA star in about 10 weeks, after all. But for as legendary as Pierce has been ó and as resurgent heís played since Rondoís season-ending injury ó only one other player in the NBA this season is averaging at least 17.5 points, 7.5 rebounds and 4.0 assists per game. And that player is LeBron James, whose greatness has already been discussed. In fact, since Pierce was a rookie, only 11 people have averaged those kind of statistics George has for a season, a group thatís never included Pierce. Those are numbers befitting one of the rare players who can translate his gifts of athleticism and timing into every phase of the game. This is, as a reminder, just Georgeís third season. If Iím taking George vs. Pierce in a winner-take-all matchup in this moment, George is an easy choice because his impact covers more than just one end of the court.

Both have shown they can score, of course. While Pierce has done it for more than a decade in a steady run of excellence even for the storied Green and White, George is showing he can answer the call in a momentís notice. Say, for example, an injury that knocked leading scorer Danny Granger out of the lineup for all but two weeks of the season. Georgeís scoring jumped from 14.3 points per game in November to 18.8 in December, 19.4 in January, and 19.1 this month. Three consecutive months of not only scoring but leadership from George to hold Indiana together despite Grangerís absence and Roy Hibbertís virtual invisibility in the paint. It matches the kind of put a team on my back role Pierce has always held. Is that too general a description of his influence for you? The Pacersí offense is anemic without him on the floor, scoring eight fewer points, according to NBA.com statistics, while shooting seven percentage points worse from three and four points worse overall.

The difference is defense. Put George on a team like Indiana and it can be hard to differentiate his effect from the rest of the squadís league-leading defense. However, itís also hard to separate Pierceís poor defense on account of his age ó not to blame him much, because everyone loses a step ó from the rest of his teamís worsening defense. While the Celtics are ranked in the top 10 of defensive rating this season, itís the teamís third-worst rating since the beginning of the Big Three era in 2007, nearly four points per 100 possessions worse than last yearís 2011-12 team. What George brings that is different is the quickness to shadow players from point guard to a stretch four, often checking a teamís best player. In a Feb. 4 game against division-best Chicago, George hounded Luol Deng, one of the gameís top-five best two-way players, in a fitting compliment. On the gameís first possession, George stuck with Deng over a screen from Carlos Boozer, kept Deng on his left hip and drove him toward the corner instead of letting him turn toward the rim, then blocked a poor shot attempt. In the same gameís fourth quarter with Indiana protecting an 11-point lead, George swatted Deng from behind at the rim off an offensive board. In games against James this season where heís almost exclusively guarded the gameís most unguardable player, heís blocked his shot in a ridiculously impressive show of athleticism, then slid underneath him for a block to seal a Feb. 1 victory at home.

Pierce can create many plays still, but he canít make those. And right now, Iíll take George in this guard matchup because plays just like them.
ó ANDREW GREIF

Miller_time04
02-19-2013, 04:19 AM
He's not quite there yet to Paul pierce in his prime. But he has the chance to surpass that definitely. If any GM in the league had to pick now they would take George every time. And it's not that far of a gap right now either. Paul will be on another level than Pierce when all is said and done.

yoadknux
02-19-2013, 04:27 AM
Pierce is the better player right now (by a little) and I doubt George will ever be as good as prime pierce was

brownjake43
02-19-2013, 09:08 AM
Right now, today, Paul George, Pierce has gotten slow on defense. If there was a vote on this one and people chose Paul Pierce I would automatically assume all people watch for is who scores the most points. These guys play the same position and PG grabs more boards, and plays much better defense on the ball and off the ball right now. While Pierce averages one more point and half an assist. The ball is in Pierce's hands a lot more with Rondo gone, and it was about equal to PG when Rondo was there. Now, if the question is Pierce in his prime then it is a different story.

Sollozzo
02-19-2013, 09:11 AM
Truth is still better because he is battle tested in the playoffs. When a playoff game is on the line, you can still count on Truth to make a play. PG still has to prove that he can be that kind of player. Truth won't be better for too much longer though, because sooner or later he's going to decline. It hasn't happened yet though. I have nothing but respect for Paul Pierce. I knew he was a bad** after this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ehUsyxZIjc

Trader Joe
02-19-2013, 09:15 AM
Good point about Pierce being the vet Sollozzo, but I think right now PG is making more plays to impact the game, but yeah with the the game on the line I'd put the ball in Pierce's hands, but I'd probably take PG for the other 47 minutes at the moment.

Ace E.Anderson
02-19-2013, 09:27 AM
I think Paul Pierce is the most underrated superstar of his era. I'd easily choose him over PG in crunch time until PG proves otherwise.

All in all I honestly feel they're about equal right now; even though they're literally on complete opposite ends of the spectrum.

Pierce getting by on guile, veteran know how, and pride, whereas George is getting by on talent and athleticism.

This isn't a knock on Paul, he is obviously able to do more (defense, rebounding, 3pt shooting, etc) than Pierce is at this point. But in basketball, it always seems like the vets manage to get things done year in and year out.

Ace E.Anderson
02-19-2013, 09:32 AM
He's not quite there yet to Paul pierce in his prime. But he has the chance to surpass that definitely. If any GM in the league had to pick now they would take George every time. And it's not that far of a gap right now either. Paul will be on another level than Pierce when all is said and done.

Not quite? He's pretty far off imo.

Paul Pierce is a HOF'er and PG has a long long way to go before you can say "he'll be on another level than Pierce"

Sollozzo
02-19-2013, 09:35 AM
Good point about Pierce being the vet Sollozzo, but I think right now PG is making more plays to impact the game, but yeah with the the game on the line I'd put the ball in Pierce's hands, but I'd probably take PG for the other 47 minutes at the moment.

I agree that PG has been the better overall player this season. But yeah, Truth will kick it up a notch in the playoffs like he always does. Will PG be able to turn it up a notch in the playoffs? I have no doubt that he will eventually be able to, but will it be this season? It will be fascinating to watch.

cgg
02-19-2013, 10:27 AM
I like that they were both the #10 pick.

brownjake43
02-19-2013, 11:05 AM
[QUOTE=Sollozzo;1589475]Truth is still better because he is battle tested in the playoffs. When a playoff game is on the line, you can still count on Truth to make a play. PG still has to prove that he can be that kind of player. Truth won't be better for too much longer though, because sooner or later he's going to decline. It hasn't happened yet though. I have nothing but respect for Paul Pierce. I knew he was a bad** after this:=QUOTE]

I agree at the end of the game I would rather the ball be in Pierce's hands than PGs, but there is more to basketball than being clutch. And right now George is the more complete players I think.

Derek2k3
02-19-2013, 11:29 AM
I'd say PG is right now.

Scoring just a bit less, shooting a better percentage, rebounds more, gets more steals, plays better defense.

Pierce had a really nice run...after Ray Allen and Garnett showed up. And Rondo.

If he was as good as he thinks, they'd have been able to win without a helping hand from buddy McHale.

Pacer Fan
02-19-2013, 11:34 AM
PG

beast23
02-19-2013, 11:36 AM
I really dislike these kind of comparisons. "Who is better" really only comes down to one important question as far as I am concerned. And that is, ignoring age and salary, which player would be better in the Indiana Pacers starting lineup at this time? Which player would be better for the PACERS?

And that is really what I think folks overlook when they start looking at players like Irving when they say I sure wish we had player x rather than George, or that they would be willing to trade a Pacer player for a player from another team.

Everyone has their favorite players and would like to see them more often, so they would like to see them in a Pacers uniform to help accommodate that. Or, they get wide-eyed over the statistics produced by a player on an opposing team and picture the Pacers with that player producing the same for the Pacers.

But to answer the question using my own framework, replacing Paul George with Paul Pierce would prove two things. That Paul Pierce is still a good player. And that Paul George is far more important to this team, from this time forward, than Paul Pierce ever could be.

NapTonius Monk
02-19-2013, 12:22 PM
I love Paul George, but Pierce is better. George may be better at some things, but Pierce is one of the greats. I meant to post the same in another post that said George at his best is better than Kobe at his best. He's not, not yet. He is growing leaps and bounds, and he is going to be nasty eventually. But Kobe and Pierce are both in HOF discussions, with 'best ever' arguments in Kobe's direction. They've both put championship teams on their backs. Right now, Paul has yet to be our go to guy down the stretch. I believe it's coming, but right now he's not better IMHO. Love me some Paul George though.

cgg
02-19-2013, 12:25 PM
I love Paul George, but Pierce is better. George may be better at some things, but Pierce is one of the greats. I meant to post the same in another post that said George at his best is better than Kobe at his best. He's not, not yet. He is growing leaps and bounds, and he is going to be nasty eventually. But Kobe and Pierce are both in HOF discussions, with 'best ever' arguments in Kobe's direction. They've both put championship teams on their backs. Right now, Paul has yet to be our go to guy down the stretch. I believe it's comikng, but right now he's not better IMHO. Love me some Paul George though.

You're using past achievements to support calling him better right now. I've definitely not watched enough of PP this year to have an opinion, but his numbers don't look like past PP stats.

BRushWithDeath
02-19-2013, 12:36 PM
You're using past achievements to support calling him better right now. I've definitely not watched enough of PP this year to have an opinion, but his numbers don't look like past PP stats.

They look pretty much right on target with everything he's done since the arrival of KG. In fact, I'd say the consistency is pretty amazing.

07-08: 19.6 pts, 5.1 reb, 4.5 ast, 1.3 stl
08-09: 20.5 pts, 5.6 reb, 3.6 ast, 1.0 stl
09-10: 18.3 pts, 4.4 reb, 3.3 ast, 1.2 stl
10-11: 18.9 pts, 5.4 reb, 3.3 ast, 1.0 stl
11-12: 19.4 pts, 5.2 reb, 4.5 ast, 1.1 stl
12-13: 18.5 pts, 6.4 reb, 4.4 ast, 1.3 stl

cgg
02-19-2013, 12:43 PM
10-11 .620 TS% 12.8 FGA
11-12 .567 TS% 14.6 FGA
12-13 .536 TS% 14.8 FGA

2 more FGA to get .4 less points than 2 seasons ago.

Granger for comparison has never had a TS% as low as Pierce has this year.

Trader Joe
02-19-2013, 12:44 PM
I'm excited to see if Paul feeds off his confidence from the all star game like he did after his big game in Chicago back in December. Could be that last bump he needs to leap over the 20 PPG marker.

Ace E.Anderson
02-19-2013, 12:49 PM
I meant to post the same in another post that said George at his best is better than Kobe at his best. .

Who the hell said that and was actually serious? Lol this is getting to be too much

Naptown_Seth
02-19-2013, 01:01 PM
Good point about Pierce being the vet Sollozzo, but I think right now PG is making more plays to impact the game, but yeah with the the game on the line I'd put the ball in Pierce's hands, but I'd probably take PG for the other 47 minutes at the moment.
Because after 47 minutes of 3 steals, 3 other TOs created (OOB, charge, lost control of dribble), 7 tough/contested rebounds, 5 assists and the top scorer from the other team shooting 32% you probably aren't going to need that last second shot anyway.


They've had some late, close games I realize, but the recent ones shouldn't have been and weren't really PG issues. I ignore the stuff to start the year because that was when PG and the team still didn't have their identity post-DG.

Trader Joe
02-19-2013, 01:02 PM
Paul kinda **** the bed against Brooklyn. If he plays even a halfway decent game there we probably don't lose.

Naptown_Seth
02-19-2013, 01:05 PM
And keep in mind that PG JUST GOT HERE. He's only been at the "let's compare him to" level for about 3 months. We saw the defense last year and the general sense of his game. Even year 1 you had Vogel put him on Rose in the playoffs. But for a volume numbers comparison we don't have a full season of "what PG will be" yet.

To be fair, in that same vein he could end up being a bust...in relation to this topic I mean.

Naptown_Seth
02-19-2013, 01:06 PM
Paul kinda **** the bed against Brooklyn. If he plays even a halfway decent game there we probably don't lose.
Yeah, fair point. I forgot how bad that was and was thinking about how they lost in the end.

But to my point, as you say if he has his "normal" new PG24 game then they are too far ahead to lose.

cgg
02-19-2013, 01:07 PM
Yeah, fair point. I forgot how bad that was and was thinking about how they lost in the end.

But to my point, as you say if he has his "normal" new PG24 game then they are too far ahead to lose.

There's several players that if they had their normal games they would have been too far ahead to lose.

picasso
02-19-2013, 01:25 PM
Right now?? It's Paul George without a doubt. You guys are severely are underrating PG in order
not look like a homer. But numbers and production for this season, Have Paul George rated as the
4th best SF in this league. The only 3 ahead of him are Lebron-KD-Melo

Great company. Paul George is here, Paul Pierce without a doubt is a Goat and deserves all his accolades.

But Paul George is just a phenom who has yet to fill his potential.

It's amazing what Paul Pierce is doing though, Respect. But Paul George has easily been the 4th best
SF in this NBA season. I like how people say; I doubt Paul George reaches Paul Pierces level lol.

I bet you had no Idea that he was going to be an All-star by year 3.

Sollozzo
02-19-2013, 10:02 PM
It should also be pointed out that a 22 year old young guy like George has the ability to go 100% throughout the season and still have plenty of energy in the playoffs. However, an old vet like Pierce who has 15 years of miles on him must conserve his energy throughout the regular season if he is going to have enough juice left for a deep playoff run. We know the type of player that Truth can be when he elevates his game in the playoffs. George must prove that he has that ability before he should be considered better than Pierce right now.

mattie
02-19-2013, 10:10 PM
Who the hell said that and was actually serious? Lol this is getting to be too much

I did. Sort of.

I said if Paul has his best game against Kobe's best game Paul would out play him. That's because Paul's best game involves him dropping 30, playing all world defense, excellent rebounding and solid passing. His best games are superstar level.

I then followed that with the point that there is no way Paul is as good as Kobe though. Because you can count on Kobe to throw up 25 every game. While PG might score 5 in a game. That's just the reality of a young, inexperienced player with a shitload of talent.

(I was trying to get at why it is hard to rate someone like PG so high right now. Yes, we see all world performances, but also some terrible performances. Right now the best are just that: better than him)

HC
02-19-2013, 10:42 PM
Hopefully PG picks up that knack of getting to the foul line like Pierce has throughout his career.

naptownmenace
02-20-2013, 09:24 AM
Hopefully PG picks up that knack of getting to the foul line like Pierce has throughout his career.

I don't even want to keep talking about who Paul George is better than. Either it will get out of hand with a different comparison everyday or our expectations could get way out of hand.

I totally agree with HC's statement above. All I'll add is that I hope he can become as consistent a scorer as Pierce was during his prime. Paul Pierce is a good player to pattern your game after. His defense has slipped a little in the last 2 seasons but during their run to the Championship in 2008, he played some of the best defense I've ever seen someone play against Lebron and Kobe.

NapTonius Monk
02-20-2013, 01:45 PM
You're using past achievements to support calling him better right now. I've definitely not watched enough of PP this year to have an opinion, but his numbers don't look like past PP stats.No, that's not my point at all. Even now, game on the line, you can put the ball in the hands of either Kobe or Pierce, and reasonably expect that they will come through. Paul is not there yet. I believe it's coming, but not quite yet.

cgg
02-20-2013, 01:47 PM
No, that's not my point at all. Even now, game on the line, you can put the ball in the hands of either Kobe or Pierce, and reasonably expect that they will come through. Paul is not there yet. I believe it's coming, but not quite yet.

Kobe isn't there. Reality does not back up perception that Kobe is successful in late game situations. He severely declines. He takes every shot and ends up making some of them so people forget the rest.

NapTonius Monk
02-20-2013, 03:34 PM
I still wouldn't bet against Kobe. I don't want to sound like a Kobe apologist, but to make it sound like he's running on fumes out there is quite a bit of a reach.

cgg
02-20-2013, 03:44 PM
I still wouldn't bet against Kobe. I don't want to sound like a Kobe apologist, but to make it sound like he's running on fumes out there is quite a bit of a reach.

I don't mean now. I mean always. I would absolutely bet against him across all his late game shots.

I wouldn't bet against Mo Williams though.
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1
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
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LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
7
4
12
.333
8
1
4
.250
3
.375
0
.000


2
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2011-12 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2012.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
20
15
41
.366
26
4
16
.250
12
.415
4
.267


3
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2010-11 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2011.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
10
5
17
.294
12
2
8
.250
6
.353
1
.200


4
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2009-10 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2010.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
21
16
33
.485
17
5
12
.417
7
.561
3
.188


5
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2008-09 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2009.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
20
16
36
.444
20
7
14
.500
7
.542
4
.250


6
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2007-08 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2008.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
13
8
20
.400
12
1
3
.333
2
.425
2
.250


7
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2006-07 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2007.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2007.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
19
16
39
.410
23
7
19
.368
12
.500
4
.250


8
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2005-06 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
19
13
32
.406
19
2
9
.222
7
.438
1
.077


9
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2004-05 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2005.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
12
2
16
.125
14
1
11
.091
10
.156
0
.000


10
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2003-04 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2004.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2004.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
14
15
38
.395
23
6
15
.400
9
.474
4
.267


11
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2002-03 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2003.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
16
9
30
.300
21
0
8
.000
8
.300
1
.111


12
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2001-02 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2002.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
15
6
22
.273
16
0
3
.000
3
.273
0
.000


13
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2000-01 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2001.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
13
12
32
.375
20
1
8
.125
7
.391
2
.167

</tbody><tfoot></tfoot>
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=&is_playoffs=&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=date_game&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#stats)
Generated 2/20/2013.

BlueNGold
02-20-2013, 09:24 PM
Paul Pierce was a great player. But PG is better than Pierce at the age of 22. He's going to be better than Pierce when he's 32. He's a better defensive player right now than Paul Pierce has ever been.

NapTonius Monk
02-22-2013, 02:46 PM
I don't mean now. I mean always. I would absolutely bet against him across all his late game shots.

I wouldn't bet against Mo Williams though.
<tbody>
Rk
Player
Season
Tm
G
FG
FGA
FG%
FGX
3P
3PA
3P%
3PX
eFG%
Ast'd
%Ast'd


1
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2012-13 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2013.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
7
4
12
.333
8
1
4
.250
3
.375
0
.000


2
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2011-12 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2012.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2012.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
20
15
41
.366
26
4
16
.250
12
.415
4
.267


3
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2010-11 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2011.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2011.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
10
5
17
.294
12
2
8
.250
6
.353
1
.200


4
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2009-10 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2010.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
21
16
33
.485
17
5
12
.417
7
.561
3
.188


5
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2008-09 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2009.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2009.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
20
16
36
.444
20
7
14
.500
7
.542
4
.250


6
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2007-08 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2008.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2008.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
13
8
20
.400
12
1
3
.333
2
.425
2
.250


7
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2006-07 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2007.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2007.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
19
16
39
.410
23
7
19
.368
12
.500
4
.250


8
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2005-06 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2006.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2006.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
19
13
32
.406
19
2
9
.222
7
.438
1
.077


9
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2004-05 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2005.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2005.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
12
2
16
.125
14
1
11
.091
10
.156
0
.000


10
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2003-04 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2004.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2004.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
14
15
38
.395
23
6
15
.400
9
.474
4
.267


11
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2002-03 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2003.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2003.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
16
9
30
.300
21
0
8
.000
8
.300
1
.111


12
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2001-02 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2002.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2002.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
15
6
22
.273
16
0
3
.000
3
.273
0
.000


13
Kobe Bryant (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
2000-01 (http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2001.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
LAL (http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/2001.html?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool)
13
12
32
.375
20
1
8
.125
7
.391
2
.167

</tbody>
Provided by Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.sports-reference.com/sharing.shtml?utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool): View Original Table (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=single&year_id=&is_playoffs=&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&shot_pts=&is_make=&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=2&time_remain_seconds=0&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=date_game&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#stats)
Generated 2/20/2013.
You're saying that Mo Williams is a better clutch player than Kobe Bryant?

SMosley21
02-22-2013, 02:59 PM
Paul Pierce was a great player. But PG is better than Pierce at the age of 22. He's going to be better than Pierce when he's 32. He's a better defensive player right now than Paul Pierce has ever been.

Can we just let Paul be a very good young player without comparing him to one of the best players of the past 15 years? Pierce was no slouch at 22.

19.5 points, 5.4 rebounds, 3 assists, 2.1 steals per game for Pierce at 22, then the next season he jumped up to 25 ppg scorer. At 32, Pierce was still averaging 18, 4, 3, and 1.

PG is playing great basketball right now and it looks like he's going to have a hell of a career but let's not put the cart before the horse and assume he's going to have a better career than a guy with a resume like Pierce. That's the very definition of setting yourself up for disappointment.

mattie
02-22-2013, 03:57 PM
You're saying that Mo Williams is a better clutch player than Kobe Bryant?

Basketball is won by playing 48 minutes of great ball. Not the last two minutes. Kobe wins because he's a great ball player. The fantasy that he helps his team win because of his "clutch" play is ridiculous.

The truth is there is a long line of players that are more clutch than Kobe. But that doesn't matter. Because kobe kills his opponents in the first 46 so it doesn't matter.

But Kobe is not clutch. In fact, Kobe is the sole reason the Lakers offense regresses from top five to average for his entire career because of his **** poor play in the clutch. The numbers don't lie.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7649571/nba-kobe-bryant-not-money-think-espn-magazine

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/24200/the-truth-about-kobe-bryant-in-crunch-time

If I was coach of the Lakers, I'd bench Kobe in the last two or three minutes of every game. (until it finally hit home that his selfish hero ball is horrible and doesn't contribute to wins)