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View Full Version : Harrison or Foster at Center When Everyone's Back?



Los Angeles
12-18-2004, 01:57 PM
I'm usually a "don't mess with what isn't broken" kind of guy, and last year's 61 wins really say alot. That was O'Neal and Foster at 4 and 5, and it was a potent combo.

However, JO was very vocal about wanting management to get "another big guy", and even lobbied hard to bring Dampier to us. This suggests to me that JO wasn't all that happy with the JO/Foster combo, because he took too much of a beating guarding centers.

Early results seem to suggest that Harrison is more of the type of player Jermaine wanted in the off season. But Rick said on his weekly show that Harrison has what it take to start, but he's going to stick with Foster at center when everyone's back. SO...

What do you think? Should Harrison start at center instead of Foster? Why?

PacersFan
12-18-2004, 02:12 PM
Harrison is playing great, but you have to remember that he is still a rookie. There's still a lot of tricks he needs to learn in the low post. I think he is better with the second unit right now because we still have a big body in there with him and he can dominate against the opposing second unit centers. Plus, Foster plays a lot less minutes then Jermaine, meaning that Harrison will be on the court with Jermaine much of the time. But I really feel that if he really works hard this offseason there's a pretty good chance he can steal the starting job from Foster next season.

ABADays
12-18-2004, 02:15 PM
I never thought I would hear this much less say it - when that happens we have the ability to wear down any team in the midle.

Kegboy
12-18-2004, 03:16 PM
Jeff will start, Rick pretty much said so on his radio show. However, the plus about Harrison, and Pollard for that matter, playing so well is JO doesn't have to play C anymore. Remember last year he was Jeff's backup, sliding over to the Five whenever Al came in. Now, he's gonna have a bigger body next to him the whole game.

Unclebuck
12-18-2004, 03:36 PM
JO wasn't all that happy with the JO/Foster combo, because he took too much of a beating guarding centers.



LA, this is a good question and your comment I have highlighted above is the conventional wisdom, but as I think about it, I don't know what centers J.O really guarded. First most teams play two power forwards anyway, and jeff with very few exceptions guarded the better offensive player.

J.O is better off the ball, ready to help as needed, Jeff is better on the ball defending his man. I don't want J.O. 20 feet from the basket guarding players like A. Walker, Odom, Sheed Wallace, Drew Gooden. We know Harrison can't guard those players who can score inside and out, J.O. can but he is so good blocking shots, that he is better utilized close to the basket.

DH and J.O will make a great offensive tandem, but I think more times than not J.O and Jeff wil make a better defensive tandem than J.O and Harrison. Obviously it will depend on what team the pacers are playiong and to a certain degree who is playing small forward for the Pacers.


But to answer your question I think this season jeff should start.

Los Angeles
12-18-2004, 04:09 PM
All great points, UB. Perhaps these two could switch depending on what we need - tenatious d :) and rebounding, or power in the paint. JO has both, so this pairing could go to either guy.

It's obvious that JO is great close to the basket. But his public statements suggest to me that he really doesn't want to be there as often as he has been the last couple of years. Would Harrison help more than Foster in that department? You've made me realize that it could depend a lot on which end of the floor we're talking about.

Arcadian
12-18-2004, 04:24 PM
I think Foster will and should continue to start. Rick likes vets over rooks and without Ron we need defense more than offense.

Anthem
12-18-2004, 05:42 PM
I still think Harrison's gonna hit the wall after the allstar break.

Pollard has reestablished his trade value. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Pollard to open up space for Harrison.

Kegboy
12-18-2004, 07:27 PM
I still think Harrison's gonna hit the wall after the allstar break.

Pollard has reestablished his trade value. I wouldn't be opposed to moving Pollard to open up space for Harrison.
I wouldn't say he's reestablished his trade value until he shows his back is not an issue.

SoupIsGood
12-19-2004, 12:39 AM
Harrison should start.

clownskull
12-19-2004, 03:13 AM
foster should/will start. harrison is a rookie, he is a capable shot blocker but often tries to block too many shots and leaves the guy he's defending clear for the easy rebound and garbage basket. harrison will probably start but, not this year and i am fine with that. big dave has much potential but, also much to learn. i'd rather have foster start. besides- i think rick has a better, more in-depth evaluation of the team than we do and i trust his judgement.

Peck
12-19-2004, 05:03 AM
All I can say is that the Pacers really should trade Croshere.

If you all want Foster & Harrison to get all of the center min. that will leave Austin only getting the scraps left over from Jermaine. For a guy who did so much for us & put so much on the floor to receive 8-10 min. a game is just an insult to both him & his fans.

I can't argue to much with what you are saying because I do believe that Harrison is the future of our team & obviously Foster has grabbed 18 rebounds for three straight games. But Croshere has done nothing to be relagated to being the 10th man or whatever off of the bench.

The sad thing is he will sit there & take it & be ready again when somebody goes down. I guess that's called being a good pro, but it's also called being a sucker sometimes as well.

Oh well, at least he makes a lot of money.

Eindar
12-19-2004, 10:17 AM
All I can say is that the Pacers really should trade Croshere.

If you all want Foster & Harrison to get all of the center min. that will leave Austin only getting the scraps left over from Jermaine. For a guy who did so much for us & put so much on the floor to receive 8-10 min. a game is just an insult to both him & his fans.

I can't argue to much with what you are saying because I do believe that Harrison is the future of our team & obviously Foster has grabbed 18 rebounds for three straight games. But Croshere has done nothing to be relagated to being the 10th man or whatever off of the bench.

The sad thing is he will sit there & take it & be ready again when somebody goes down. I guess that's called being a good pro, but it's also called being a sucker sometimes as well.

Oh well, at least he makes a lot of money.

That's called, "Gee, all I have to do is sit here on the bench, play hard every few games when I'm needed, and you'll pay me 9 million dollars, and probably give me a championship ring in the next couple years? You da man, coach!"

Really, Croshere's got it better than anyone on Survivor. He didn't even have to eat anything gross to get paid. I know people say that the will to compete should be driving him for increased playing time, but Croshere realizes that he's not as good as JO, and never will be. When you're in a situation like that, it's best to just do what you can when you can.

Oh, ya, Foster should start, at least this year.

Deadshot
12-19-2004, 12:33 PM
I don't think any team will want Croshere's contract.

Kegboy
12-19-2004, 01:01 PM
I don't think any team will want Croshere's contract.
Exactly. We've been trying to trade him for years. And, as we've seen, he's a good insurance policy. He's not going anywhere, unless, of course, he opts out this summer. Yep, he's got a player's option coming up, according to Hoopshype. Not that he'll ever do it.

Bball
12-19-2004, 01:42 PM
Exactly. We've been trying to trade him for years. And, as we've seen, he's a good insurance policy. He's not going anywhere, unless, of course, he opts out this summer. Yep, he's got a player's option coming up, according to Hoopshype. Not that he'll ever do it.

OTOH, so far he's had a good showing overall (when healthy).... and more importantly for trading... his contract will be ending after next season (assuming he doesn't actually take one for the team finances and opt out this year). I can't imagine any scenario where he'd opt out after this season unless he simply values PT over the $$$ he'd be turning down.

-Bball

PacerMan
12-19-2004, 03:11 PM
All I can say is that the Pacers really should trade Croshere.

If you all want Foster & Harrison to get all of the center min. that will leave Austin only getting the scraps left over from Jermaine. For a guy who did so much for us & put so much on the floor to receive 8-10 min. a game is just an insult to both him & his fans.

I can't argue to much with what you are saying because I do believe that Harrison is the future of our team & obviously Foster has grabbed 18 rebounds for three straight games. But Croshere has done nothing to be relagated to being the 10th man or whatever off of the bench.

The sad thing is he will sit there & take it & be ready again when somebody goes down. I guess that's called being a good pro, but it's also called being a sucker sometimes as well.

Oh well, at least he makes a lot of money.

We signed 36 y/o Curry to play defense primarily because Cro can't stop anybody. He's got a decent offensive game and he hustles, but he couldn't stop my grandma. I think 10th man is right about where he belongs.

Hicks
12-19-2004, 03:47 PM
We signed 36 y/o Curry to play defense primarily because Cro can't stop anybody. He's got a decent offensive game and he hustles, but he couldn't stop my grandma. I think 10th man is right about where he belongs.
I don't know where to begin. I'll let the biggest pro-Croshere people do it.

Los Angeles
12-19-2004, 05:46 PM
In regards to Croshere, I really liked him and felt he deserved the pay after seeing him in 2000. But then we traded for JO. No matter what business you are in, you always know that you could be replaced by someone better.

I also don't see croshere as a solution to the problem as Jermaine himself expressed it. Austin's outside shot lightens the banging Jermaine takes from double teams on the offensive end, but defensively, JO would still be our primary post defender, and would continue to take a beating. I'm not convinced that AC would get that job on the defensive end if JO is on the floor. You don't have to say Croshere's defense is weak (not true) to state that JO is a better post defender.

Yeah, Croshere has shown that he can still play despite 3 years of relative neglect, but I don't want to give him the minutes if it betrays JO in any way, hence my Foster or Harrison choice.

Oh yeah - Pollard was left off the list for two obvious reasons: 1) Foster out practiced and out played him last year and in this case you don't get second chances from me. Between those two, Foster should be ahead of him on the chart and 2) bad backs often end careers (Larry Bird), and if I had a player with a bad back, he wouldn't start until a LONG incident free period.

JO_pace
12-19-2004, 05:58 PM
it'll be hard to trade cro given his contract...i also don't think we'll get much from trading him if he can't defend..

foster or harrison? that's a tough choice...i'll say foster for now mainly because he can rebound better than harrison...but we'll just have to see how harrison plays in the next bit and maybe he'll outplay foster..

Eindar
12-19-2004, 10:41 PM
In the future, once David Harrison develops, and is our super-sub, Croshere will play a very, very valuable role off the bench. His job will be to nail 3s and spread the floor for Harrison's (or God forbid, Bender's) post game.

Los Angeles
12-19-2004, 10:52 PM
In the future, once David Harrison develops, and is our super-sub, Croshere will play a very, very valuable role off the bench. His job will be to nail 3s and spread the floor for Harrison's (or God forbid, Bender's) post game.I'm confused - are you saying that JO won't be around in your senario?